Discovered my wife’s affair two years ago. As far as I can tell she ended the affair shortly afterwards and we went into counseling. I am 45, my wife is 42. The affair lasted three years and it was full of lust, hot sex, lurid emails, hot chat on the computer, phone sex, you name it. During those three years I was a second class person in my home and I had no idea I was neglected that badly. I tried hard to be a good husband and survived on the crumbs wife gave me whenever I asked her if something was wrong. It seems she gave me enough of herself to keep me off balance and like a fool I never questioned why things where going downhill.

At this point my wife’s lover is history, not in the picture. But I have the suspicion that my wife still craves him for sex.

I am past the initial shock of the discovery and we have tried to rebuild the marriage, but somehow I keep thinking that there is a wall in there and it is likely related to her longing for the good old days when she could have companionship and sex with her lover.

Over the last several weeks I have been thinking about divorce. I do not want to spend the rest of my life with a wife who looks back at her affair as a great episode in her life.

I found this site to see if there is anything ese I can do.

Any suggestions

Thanks

Do you want a divorce because you don't know / understand how to improve your marriage?

If it were possible to make a better marriage now, would you be willing to do the work?

Pep

Pep,

You can cut to the chase better than anyone on this board!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Absolutely the only questions that need to be answered in this scenario.

I agree with Cymanca...Pep, you rule!!!

-Caren

I feel empty and hollow. I have not bonded with my wife. On the surface we seem to be doing great, but I am missing something. I think she is witholding something from me and I am quite certain that her longing for her lover is not over.

Recently I entered her emaail account again after almost a year of not looking at it. There are cemails to her female friends where she talks about the old days and how good things were. No trace of her lover as far as i can tell and by her words the lover is not in the picture anymore. Nevertheless, she mentioned the lover in her email and I can tell he is still fresh in her mind.

I have done everything I can to feel good about this marriage. I think she has done her part, but I don't think she cannot control what is inside her heart. She longs and craves sex with her lover.

This is not the recovery our counselor promised us. Any hints? How can I get my wife to forget her lover?

Hello,

I am sorry for your pain. Clearly something is terribly wrong here. Your wife had a 3 year sexual affair that was very passionate. Two years later she still talks to her girfriends about how good the affair was? Your wife does not sound very remorseful to me. Three years is a long time to be doing this. It seems that counseling has not been successful at this point. I think you need to sit down with your wife and put your cards on the table. Was she remorseful? Ask her how she would be feeling if the roles would have been reversed? Sit down and discuss if you both would be better apart and finding someone else in your lives or really working on recovery. The fact that she still sees 3 years of betraying you and putting your health at risk as something very positive in her life is clearly very devastating to you and destroying hope for recovery in your marriage. I think that would be very difficult for you to accept that attitude. I doubt that she would be so accepting again if the roles would be reversed. At this stage you deserve to decide what makes you happy in the long run because you deserve it. I wish you luck.

Hi sergei,

Welcome to MB although I am sorry you are here for Infidelity.

What exactly has been going on at home to make you feel this way? How has your WW been treating you? Surely just the newfound e-mails aren't to blame alone.What makes you think she still craves this OM and sex with him? Sounds like you've hit a road block.

Can you/have you talked to your WW about how you are feeling? Is she giving you any indication that she isn't "vested" in the marriage now?

I can symptahize with how her past A has affected you.One reason I just know in my heart that I couldn't reconcile with my WH is that the memories would always be between us.That,for ME,is not something I want in my life.

For many,they can get over it and move on to have a happy marriage again.But,it takes a lot of work for both the WS and the BS,all the time.If she hasn't yet realized that what she did was SO incredibly wrong and painful and that "romanticizing" the past and keeping that memory alive is hurtful to you then she still hasn't fully grasped the destruction she wrought.She has to be in this marriage 100%,heart,mind and soul.NOT reliving the "glory days" with the homewrecking OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What do you think? Are you still in counseling?

O

“Your wife had a 3 year sexual affair that was very passionate. Two years later she still talks to her girlfriends about how good the affair was? Your wife does not sound very remorseful to me. Three years is a long time to be doing this. It seems that counseling has not been successful at this point. I think you need to sit down with your wife and put your cards on the table. Was she remorseful? Ask her how she would be feeling if the roles would have been reversed?”

I had those conversations with her many times during the 1st months. Lately we have not talked about that at all. If I try to say anything she looks at me with some disdain as says I just want to make her feel guilty forever. I always thought she had remorse; or at least she said she was very sorry. She said her lover meant nothing to her, but her written words always say otherwise. I have a file with hundreds of emails saved on a CD just in case I have to file for divorce. I have forgiven her and tried to be a good husband, but all this time she takes me for granted, no different than in the past. She is romantic with me and we have good sex. But, I still miss the intimacy; I also see that she learned new ways to make love with her lover and that makes me sick.

“Sit down and discuss if you both would be better apart and finding someone else in your lives or really working on recovery. The fact that she still sees 3 years of betraying you and putting your health at risk as something very positive in her life is clearly very devastating to you and destroying hope for recovery in your marriage. I think that would be very difficult for you to accept that attitude. “

I am afraid to bring this theme yet again. She would mock me by not been able to put this behind me. She makes good points and she does not see her lover anymore. I wish there was more to recovery than this. I am missing something in this marriage and it makes me uneasy.


“What exactly has been going on at home to make you feel this way? How has your WW been treating you? Surely just the newfound e-mails aren't to blame alone.What makes you think she still craves this OM and sex with him? Sounds like you've hit a road block.”

The emails confirmed my suspicion. I know she Is not the same. When we make love I don’t see the passion of the old days; it is different. When we are romantic I have doubts about her words and I cannot seem to get into a groove. I guess she sounds like a hypocrite to me, but I can say that I caught her in a lie. Our conversations tend to be short and with not many details. I don’t hear or see warmth in her voice. Maybe I am paranoid.

“Can you/have you talked to your WW about how you are feeling? Is she giving you any indication that she isn't "vested" in the marriage now?

I can symptahize with how her past A has affected you.One reason I just know in my heart that I couldn't reconcile with my WH is that the memories would always be between us.That,for ME,is not something I want in my life.”

I agree with you. I don’t think this is the way a marriage should work. I should be able to feel 100%secure and to say what is on my mind. I am thinking about separation.

“For many,they can get over it and move on to have a happy marriage again.But,it takes a lot of work for both the WS and the BS,all the time.If she hasn't yet realized that what she did was SO incredibly wrong and painful and that "romanticizing" the past and keeping that memory alive is hurtful to you then she still hasn't fully grasped the destruction she wrought.She has to be in this marriage 100%,heart,mind and soul.NOT reliving the "glory days" with the homewrecking OM.”

Her lover is not a very good person. He is a divorced man who is no stranger to affairs. I talked to him once on the phone. He sounded very conciliatory and reasonable and I wanted to kill him. He hung up on me and I know he is a scared chicken. I have never seen him in person, but I cannot understand why my wife fell in love with a slimy man like that.

You are right in using the term the “glory days”. This is how she expressed herself in her email. Her words were painful to me. I feel like I threw away the last 5 years of my life.

Maybe I should try separation again. I left home for two month when I discovered the affair, but eventually returned home after I could not stand solitude and could not get my heart into dating; I was too sad for dating. Maybe I can do it this time around, I feel more confident.


"What do you think? Are you still in counseling?"

Counselor said we were doing great. Not going anymore.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Sergei ]</small>

I suspect that a large part of the problem for *you* is that your wife no longer shows remorse, and it seems to me that she doesn't really understand what she did. I may be wrong, only your wife could know that, but perhaps that's the vibe you're getting and why you feel like there's a wall.

It is possible that you could have the marriage you want. But as Octobergirl said, it takes work from both of you and from what you indicate here, she may not be willing.

Does your wife truly understand how close you are to walking out the door? Perhaps it's time to sit down and have that talk. Read all about love busters and disrepectful judgements, and POJA first..read ALL the basic concepts.

Hello again,

I agree with the previous writer Aislinn. It seems that your wife simply "does not get it".
It seems that she has no idea of the damage that she has created. Ask how she would feel if the roles were reversed? Ask her why for the past 3 years you should not feel that all of your shared Birthdays, anniversaries, etc was a big joke since she made a complete farce of the marriage. She betrays you continuously for 3 years behind your back and is angry that you have not forgotten? It sounds like your wife is sorry that she got caught and hurt you but deep down is not upset that she enjoyed the glory days behind your back for three years.
From her conversation with her friend it seems that she simply does not see the enormous harm and devastation that she has done to you. Looking at the affair for 3 years and seeing it as a great experience 2 years after D day clearly shows she does not get it and is still disrespecting you in her heart.

I think sincere wayward spouses come to the realization that the awful truth was how terrible the affair was to each spouse and spend the rest of the marriage working to restore trust and love to the betrayed spouse. Her attitude toward you to get over it and see the 3 year affair as a great time indicates she is just going through the motions with you. This was not a one night stand when she was drunk. She deliberately calculated for 3 years to betray you and probably would still be at it if she was not caught. Two years later she still perceives it as the good old days indicates her moral compass is still broken.
I agree with the previous poster what you are feeling. Your previous message said that you returned to her simply because you were lonely and was not up for dating. This is not a good reason. The bottom line is that your wife not get what she has done to you and until she does I am afrid you will continually feel frustrated and humiliated with her. My guess also is that it must bother you tremendously that she was able to cheat on you for 3 years without you having a clue which indicates she is pretty good actress so it is difficult to tell if she is ever telling you the truth. I wish you luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> posted February 06, 2005 04:19 PM
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello again,
I agree with the previous writer Aislinn. It seems that your wife simply "does not get it".
It seems that she has no idea of the damage that she has created. Ask how she would feel if the roles were reversed? Ask her why for the past 3 years you should not feel that all of your shared Birthdays, anniversaries, etc was a big joke since she made a complete farce of the marriage. She betrays you continuously for 3 years behind your back and is angry that you have not forgotten? It sounds like your wife is sorry that she got caught and hurt you but deep down is not upset that she enjoyed the glory days behind your back for three years. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I had the nerve to ask my wife. She admitted she still misses her lover. She claims is not real love, but she misses all the good times. She stated that the affair was a big romance and that it will always be with her even if there was no love for her lover. She further stated that her lover is not as bad a man as I think he is. This is a guy who has been unfaithful many times, however, she does not see that as a flaw.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From her conversation with her friend it seems that she simply does not see the enormous harm and devastation that she has done to you. Looking at the affair for 3 years and seeing it as a great experience 2 years after D day clearly shows she does not get it and is still disrespecting you in her heart.
I think sincere wayward spouses come to the realization that the awful truth was how terrible the affair was to each spouse and spend the rest of the marriage working to restore trust and love to the betrayed spouse. Her attitude toward you to get over it and see the 3 year affair as a great time indicates she is just going through the motions with you. This was not a one night stand when she was drunk. She deliberately calculated for 3 years to betray you and probably would still be at it if she was not caught. Two years later she still perceives it as the good old days indicates her moral compass is still broken.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am afraid your description is accurate. She asked me if I wanted to hear another apology and whether I enjoyed making her feel guilty. I really have no interest in guilt; it has been a long time. I told her I wanted to have the same romantic connection we had when we were young and she shrugged me off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with the previous poster what you are feeling. Your previous message said that you returned to her simply because you were lonely and was not up for dating. This is not a good reason. The bottom line is that your wife not get what she has done to you and until she does I am afrid you will continually feel frustrated and humiliated with her. My guess also is that it must bother you tremendously that she was able to cheat on you for 3 years without you having a clue which indicates she is pretty good actress so it is difficult to tell if she is ever telling you the truth. I wish you luck. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another good description. I really don’t know where I stand. It is very hard to read what her heart is hiding.

I think I could date now if we separate because I am not in shock anymore. Before, when I left the house I could not relate to any other woman. But, I remember how my wife became very jealous thinking that I wanted to be single again. In fact, when I left the house she said good-bye to her lover so I would come back to her. In retrospect leaving the house was good, but it was hell at the same time.

I know she wants to be married, but I think she misses having the affair plus the marriage. I am convinced she wanted both.

***I know she wants to be married, but I think she misses having the affair plus the marriage. I am convinced she wanted both.***

Of course she wanted both. They ALL want both.

I understand where you are coming from. I also live with an unrepentant spouse and they simply Do Not Get It that they have done anything wrong. The A was fun for them. The A was fun for their A partner. So What? I'm back now. Get over it.

What they utterly fail to realize is that they had NO right to leave you out of the equation. Their actions affected YOU deeply and profoundly, but nobody asked if this affair was okay with YOU. Nobody asked if YOU were okay with being ignored and alone while they went off for their good times together. Nobody asked if this was what YOU wanted.

Instead, they treated you like a non-person -- like a piece of furniture that has no feelings and can be ignored and disregarded at will -- and they're okay with this. No wonder you feel like nothing. That's how your wife chose to treat you. She has become the sort of person who really is okay with treating her own husband like a non-person. Maybe you can ask her how that happened and why she is okay with this.

So: If you want to handle this the MB way, you could try Plan A. See if your wife will fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire (it's on this site somewhere.) Even if she won't, it's pretty clear that companionship and exciting SF are high on her list. See what you can do.

If that does not work, you can still go to Plan B. You mentioned that she did not like it when you left the last time. She just sounds like a classic cake-eater who really likes this arrangement and will bully you into going along with it for as long as you allow it.

Read all you can on this site about Plan A and Plan B. They just might work for you. You can always go to Plan D (Divorce) later on; why not try something else first? You don't have much to lose, and you will always know that you truly did try all you could. Good luck.
Mulan

Bryanp said

<strong>I think sincere wayward spouses come to the realization that the awful truth was how terrible the affair was to each spouse and spend the rest of the marriage working to restore trust and love to the betrayed spouse.</strong>

If this were indeed the case, I would have chosen not to reconcile with my wife. The idea that I, a FWS, should spend the rest of my marriage to somehow restore trust and love is just impossible. No one can do these things by themselves. It takes consistent actions by both marriage partners to build a strong marriage.

In my opinion, a remorseful FWS admits to his error, examines himself to see what were the causes of his indiscretions; he examine the marriage to identify the problems that made him vulnerable to an affair and tries to correct those problems.

If I were to imagine that I would have to somehow atone for what I did for my entire marriage, 30 or 40 years after the fact, I would just end the relationship and maybe start a new one without all the baggage.

Sergei,

It sounds to me like you wife misses how she felt when she was in the affair, the emotional high . . . she misses the passion. It doesn’t seem that she misses her affair partner she misses how she felt when she was with him. There is advice from Dr. Harley on this site that will give you a chance to create a relationship where she feels that passion for you.

If it is the BS’s intention to punish the WS for the rest of the marriage for an affair long gone, I think that the relationship might be better off severed.

Affairs are not committed in a vacuum, as Harley said . . . there are reasons that affairs happen, but there are no excuses

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Comfortably numb,

I can't recall disagreeing with any statement on this forum as much as the following.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think sincere wayward spouses come to the realization that the awful truth was how terrible the affair was to each spouse and spend the rest of the marriage working to restore trust and love to the betrayed spouse.

If this were indeed the case, I would have chosen not to reconcile with my wife. The idea that I, a FWS, should spend the rest of my marriage to somehow restore trust and love is just impossible </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry to say that if that is NOT the case, your efforts at M restoration are superficial and lack any foundation. Every M needs both partners to strive towards and maintain that trust. In an M that is untouched(ravaged) by infidelity that trust can be reinforced through every day activity. In a situation such as yours, an attitide that I am not going to regain AND maintain that most basic core value, is folly. If you truly believe that premise, I feel that your efforts at saving your M are misguided and does not portend well as to the ultimate success of your stated endeavor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cymanca:
<strong> Comfortably numb,

I can't recall disagreeing with any statement on this forum as much as the following.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think sincere wayward spouses come to the realization that the awful truth was how terrible the affair was to each spouse and spend the rest of the marriage working to restore trust and love to the betrayed spouse.

If this were indeed the case, I would have chosen not to reconcile with my wife. The idea that I, a FWS, should spend the rest of my marriage to somehow restore trust and love is just impossible </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry to say that if that is NOT the case, your efforts at M restoration are superficial and lack any foundation. Every M needs both partners to strive towards and maintain that trust. In an M that is untouched(ravaged) by infidelity that trust can be reinforced through every day activity. In a situation such as yours, an attitide that I am not going to regain AND maintain that most basic core value, is folly. If you truly believe that premise, I feel that your efforts at saving your M are misguided and does not portend well as to the ultimate success of your stated endeavor. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I don't think I have ever read such a misguided resonse to a post. Nice selective use of quotation and out of context to boot.

I said it takes two people to make a strong marriage. One person, alone, can't repair a marriage. One person cannot make some else trust them. Do you get it?

Did you bother to read that part?

edited to add . . .

My marriage is recovered and has never been in better shape. MB has some good advice and I stick around to try to describe what it felt like to be a FWS as most here come from the other experience (BS).

edited again to take out an undeserved jab.

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Comfortably Numb ]</small>

Sergei:

It is not a good thing when we (the BH) make the WW feel guilty 24/7. This mere sensation makes the WW recall the OM who would never say anything that could remotely be interpreted as hostile.

I am well aware that sometimes WWs feel remorse with simple conversation or sometimes by simply watching a TV show about infidelity. I suggest you try very hard to ameliorate those feelings of remorse. She was probably remorseful early on and there is no point on hammering the remorse angle anymore.

There are some good things in your marriage despite everything you said and what you have been told. First of all your wife actually ended the affair and there seems to be no contact. That by itself is a huge victory to your side of the equation and many on this board would gladly trade places with you.

I suspect that two years may not be enough to get over a torrid three-year affair. Many here say that withdrawal can be anywhere from three weeks to six moths, but I seriously doubt anyone can forget a long-term highly amorous affair in a matter of months. It could very well take years, perhaps as long as the affair lasted.

Your wife has two choices about how to remember the affair. She may think it was great or that it was a low point in her life. If she has low self-esteem and many of the WWs do she may not be able to tell herself the affair was a cheap illicit relationship with a man of poor character and integrity. Remembering the affair in a good light may be nothing more than a compensatory mechanism.

It is also possible she has fog remnants and still sees glamour in what she did--------- you need more time.

Like you I am not too crazy about a WW who is still having fantasies about OM. Who would want to marry someone like that?

Do you have children?

You are still a young man and could easily make a good life with a new woman. But, do not throw the marriage away if she is trying to make it better for you. To be honest, she seems a to be a typical cake eater and if that is the case there was never any intention of your wife to leave you for the OM.

I bet you that if you leave the house she will panic and perhaps fall in love with you once again------ big time. She is taking you for granted------ she needs a jolt.

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: UnlovedMan ]</small>

***It is not a good thing when we (the BH) make the WW feel guilty 24/7.***

This is not about "making the WS feel guilty 24/7." This is what WS who Do Not Get It will constantly accuse the BS of doing.

It is about the BS wanting to know that it is no longer about just the WS and the OP, the way it was when they were seeing each other and utterly disregarding the BS as a feeling human being.

It is about the BS wanting to know that NOW his/her feelings matter just as much as the WS's feelings -- and matter far, far more than the OP's feelings.

It is about the BS now being treated as a person whose needs and feelings matter, instead of being treated like a thing who can be ignored and disregarded.

Is there some reason why that should make the WS feel guilty?
Mulan

Mulan:

I know my wife feels remorseful by just watching a movie about infidelity or by hearing someone say something bad about infidelity. For example we have close friends who constantly ramble and put down other couples who had been unfaithful. If they ever knew my wife was unfaithful they would probably tone down their anti infidelity rhetoric. In any event I don't like to see my wife become uncomfortable as they thrash the so- called infidels. To be honest---- it serves no purpose. I am quite certain my wife has remorse, I can tell by looking at her and I don't think it is a pleasant experience to feel like that 24/7.

It is quite possible that she also has very gratifying memories of the OM, after all they were soul-mates at one point. Do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone who feels OM was the soul-mate? Of course not! However, I know that within the fantasy that is what most WWs want to see and there is nothing we can do about it. Is OM the soul-mate? Of course not! That is why OM is all alone and crying himself a river. I guess by now he knows what the real deal is,------- just as the OM of Sergei's wife.

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: UnlovedMan ]</small>

Fellows:

I do not want my wife to be sad and guilty. When that happens it is always a bad outcome and we have a fight. Even though I just came here I learned that I cannot recriminate her actions. But, she always say I am making her feel bad if I talk about the marital status.

Unloved:

I think she really craves her lover to become horny. This is not just a memory, she enjoys remembering the good times. It makes me feel like I am not good enough for her. Her lover already moved on to another woman who has left her marriage to be with him. This news was not welcomed by my wife who thought she was very special to her lover.

I checked the emotional needs section. Without giving my wife the test I would think her needs are sex and admiration. I don’t think I failed her with sex, but in admiration I failed. I talked to my wife a lot about her affair and the lover won her by saying nice things about her (admiration) all of the time. I try hard to say nice things to my wife too, but it is not the same coming from me. But, she loves to be tols she is pretty and good at what she does. She enjoys the attention of men and this I knew for a long time. But,at some point my attention was not good enough or maybe I slacked off.

After two years I thought I would be OK, but I have struggles with her memories of the lover. It saddens me a lot to have a wife like this and that is why I think about giving up. I want a woman who primarily likes me and that I am not her second choice. This is important to me even though her lover was and older man.

I am going to talk to her again tonight. Maybe you are all correct and she says I make her guilty to avoid talking to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said it takes two people to make a strong marriage. One person, alone, can't repair a marriage. One person cannot make some else trust them. Do you get it?

Did you bother to read that part?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not sure if I quite got it.

Good thing you were inflamnatory enough to post a question that insults Cymanca's intelligence twice. You, my friend, bear some interesting behavioral signs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I were to imagine that I would have to somehow atone for what I did for my entire marriage, 30 or 40 years after the fact, I would just end the relationship and maybe start a new one without all the baggage.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your entire line of posting in this thread actually seems to be fairly dismissive of peoples feelings...

Is this a forum thing, a bad day, or are you really like this in real life?

Edit**

I'm reporting this post too. I come here to listen to constructive criticism and participate in adult conversation. This is crap. I think you owe Cymanca an apology.

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: sprint ]</small>