I am a Christian, and have been affiliated with Protestant churches most of my life. Never ever have I witnessed in my churches such wicked behaviour as turning away a member (for ANY reason). To me, that is horribly un-Christian.

Even if a member behaves in a way not approved by the church, the way to help them is to offer counselling (and leave it to them whether they take it or not).

However, I know people in other streams of Christianity who have been "removed" from their church for lapses in morality. Even if the behaviour is wrong, turning them from the church will do just that...TURN THEM FROM THE CHURCH!!!

I just can't wrap my heart around that practice. And, I've heard from many people who do not attend church that it is this "judgemental practice" that turns them off of giving it a try.

Sad really!

Janet,

Some religions do practice actions such as shunning, excommunication, disfellowshipping etc. Many more religions practice look the other way, condoning or even encouraging such acts as adultery, lying, cheating, stealing even murder. In addition to that there is an inconsistent practice wher favoritism is shown and this even complicates matters further.

I can tell you that I have found that sometimes people jump to conclusions based on incomplete or inaccurate information. Similar to the way some who we thought w/b our supporters when we needed it, turn out not to be due to their need to jump to comclusions or believe inaccurate info. So when I find something questionnable. I make it a habit to do my best to get the correct info before coming reaching a conclusion. In this case, when it comes to serious actions such as adultery, it has been benefical if not critical to get the correct understanding before coming to a conclusion.

Proper viewpoint is critical. If I want t/b given a fair hearing, I should do the same.

I can not speak for all religions or circumstances. I can speak for mine. I belong to an organization/religion where disfellowshipping is done when a person who has for example commited a sin such as described above, not only commited the sin but is unreprentant. The reason for the disfellowshipping is not to withhold help but to help.

A similar illustration is when a child is being disruptive amongst a group of children. This child does not respond to requests to stop hitting, beating, taunting or hurting the other children...... one type of disciplinary action is to remove this child from the group and put this child under a more direct supervision until the child proves he/she can play nicely. This allows the other children to continue playing while the child needing loving discipline is given the proper attention.

Well we are adults but as Christians we answer to the highest educator/caretaker in the universe. When his principals are violated (note not just laws but princpals which are more encompassing), then steps to help that person individually on a personal level while preventing others from being affected or influenced is a good step. Disfellowing when properly implemented does just that.

I found a couple of very interesting passages that helped both my H and I understand this process. You see my H (WS at the time) was disfellowshipped from our organization.

Prov 6:20-35 (It is worth the read). The scripture talks about adultery and the need for discipline in this specific matter. Vs. 23-24: "For the commandment is a lamp, and a light the law is, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life to guard you against the bad woman, against the smoothness of the tongue of the foreign woman."

While this scripture was written to the men, the same principle applies equally to women who commit adultery. Both are breaking God's principals and discipline are what can help such an erred one back.

Please note vs 32-37 of that same chapt. "Anyone committing adultery with a woman is in want of heart, he that does it is bringing how own soul to ruin. A plague and dishonor he will find, and his reproach itself will not be wiped out. For the rage of an able-boded man is jealousy and he will not show compassion in the day of vengeance. He will have no consideration for any sort of ransom, neighter will he show willingness, no matterhow large you make the present."

Sound familar? For us, the next morning after d/d, 2 elders were called to our home (by me). They met with my WS and I. This particular scripture was one among several read. The WS was sooo fogged, he read the scripture, agreed with the info, admitted what he did was wrong, then said to all of us present that he was not sorry for what he did, even in light of all this info.

So what were we to do? Left unchecked, this WS c/b a bad influence on others in our congregation. He was already having a bad effect on our family. He now openly defied God's way of life as well.

It was with deep sadness that those elders, met with him again to ensure their decision w/b the correct one. Within 1 month, WS was disfellowshipped.

It did not stop there, those elders made arrangements to periodically visit and check on the WS. While they did not see all the details of our suffering, they provided comfort and support to my family. They were available to the WS anytime he wanted. The avenues to restore his relationship with God were always open to him. He could attend the public meetings and benefit from the information shared to all. It was his association portion that was limited. So he was not cut off completely, just in a way that his bad attitude would not be a negative influence on the congregation. If he was in need, proper interaction was handled.

The WS lost his family, his self respect, his relationship with God and his people.

WS still had our love and support but in a limited manner. WS moved out and in effect, the congregation plan B'd him. I also went to plan B later.

The WS was not welcomed even in our family (that took time to identify as such), but H was welcomed . This also took time since the WS had reeked havoc in our lives.

So was the disfellowship action wrong? Unloving? No. At the time it was and still is the correct way to help such a wayward one see the results and consquences of his actions.

To this day, my now H understands his need t/b disciplined in such a severe manner. During this time, my mother had open heart surgery, his father had a heart attack and many other serious family issues occured. As a WS, he did not deal well with these issues. As a repentant H, he has been dealing with them quite well.

He is still disfellowshipped. The steps he takes to repair what has been damaged (his R w/God) are not t/b taken lightly. Repairing our M is just a part of this process. It is not hard or impossible. It does require effort and a sincere heart.

Another very valuable scripture that helped us is found in Hebrews chapt 12 vs 5-6 & 11. It tells us not to belittle the discipline from God, for whom God loves he disciplines. VS 11 states: "True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous, yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yeields peaceable fruit, namely righteousness."

There are more passages which have stengthened me. That is why for my, the plan A and B concepts were not that hard to implement, once my mind and heart were in sync and I saw what really needed t/b done for myself, family and WS vs H.

Now I can not speak for other types of disciplinary actions by other religions or organizations. I can only speak of what is done in mine.

Based on the above, am I glad my WS was disfellowshipped? Yes. So does he. Do we look forward to my H (who has already returned to the M) to be reinstated? Yes. That work/journey is now up to him.

I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and one day in the near future, my husband hopes to be one again also. Our son is being taught what we believe and in time, our son can decide if this is what he wants to be. The choice is his to make when he is better equipped to do so. The choice w/b his the same as it was for me, when I made my choice.

Just my own thoughts.
L.

JanetS - Read Matthew 18:15-20 for CHRIST's instruction on how believers are to lovingly "confront" sinful behavior by other believers, especially those who are members of your "local" assembly of believers. Understand that the purpose of "church discipline" is NOT to "punish" a sinner. The purpose is to lovingly say that what you are doing is a sin against God and you need to repent. It is one of "God's ways" to "turn up the volume" if a believer isn't responding in order to reach them and help them to realize that they ARE sinning. It's goal is restoration, not punishment. But it is also designed to prevent a "willful posture of sin" to potentially infect the body of believers. Think of it this way, if you are in a church that believes that Jesus Christ is God, and you "allowed" another member to believe and take the known stance that Jesus Christ is NOT God, without removing that person from fellowship you would be allowing heresy to be "sanctioned" through inaction. Sin requires confession and repentance. It's NOT that any of us is sinless, it's that sin is anathema to God and God has instructed us how to deal with brother's in Christ who sin in order to restore them to walking WITH God and not against God.

YOUR feelings will often lead you astray. Stand on God's word, especially when you don't "feel like it."

Lastly, what is your relationship with Christ? Is Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior? You are asking "belief" based questions and you need to be very careful about the advice you "receive." You must "measure" it against Scripture. You must know that the person offering advice to you believes as you do, or there will be fundamental differences. An example: I believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah that was promised and prophesied about in the Old Testament. I believe that Jesus Christ is God the Son, one aspect of the Triune God of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I believe that salvation is only attainable through acceptance of Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior because He died on the Cross for us, rose from the dead, and made salvation available to those who accept Him. (He "paid the price" for us, as God stated He would do Himself) "In the beginning was the Word(a preincarnate name of Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God." "The Word became flesh and lived for a while among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."(John 1:1,14 NIV)

If you don't believe as I do, then you need to be selective as to what advice I might profer as "Christian advice." If you do believe the same way, then there is "common ground" for discussing what Scripture says is God's teaching about an issue. Understand that there are diverse opinions on MB because there is no requirement of any "faith" by any participant of the forums. So it's "caveat emptor" in what is received and applied to one's life and circumstances.

What's going on in your life that prompted this post?

God bless.

What is quite unfortunate is that many of us lose sight of the fact that churches are very much "social" organizations and are prone to all manner of human failings as such.

As FH pointed out, scripture is quite clear about how an unrepentent sinner should be addressed. However, it has been my experience that sometimes churches respond in more of a vigilante fashion than they do according to scripture.

After my affair, I was repentent. However, because the OW's H was a church elder and his family was well established here, I was asked to leave because they might feel uncomfortable if I remained. If I stayed, they might change churches, taking their tithes with them.

I did leave...but not because they asked me to. I left because I didn't want to be a part of a church that would shoot their wounded like that. And sadly, there are quite a few churches that do this.

All of that said, I do think churches should allow themselves flexibility in dealing with their members. Certain behaviors represent a more immediate threat to the well-being of the member and the body and must be dealt with in a more immediate manner.

For example, a couple engaged in an adulterous relationship may be dealt with more quickly and resolutely than, say, someone whose tithe and attendence is irregular. The former has the potential to damage the body to a greater extent if not dealt with swiftly, especially if those involved members are in leadership positions.

Low