well, i'm feeling an extra bit lost myself these days too but i do feel like i have found some answers.

what is your self talk like these days, do you put yourself down?

The resistance that so many (most!) BS's feel from their WS while trying to "fix" the marriage is NOT about whether or not the WS loves them. It is NOT a question of whether or not to stay married. It is a resistance to going back to "who they were". I looked for myself in the wrong place. Not just in an affair, but in my marriage, in my kids, etc. And I also happen to feel that most MB principles are band-aids...ok, maybe they serve to improve a MARRIAGE, but I haven't discovered how to find myself aside from the marriage. Is this making any sense?????????

Yes, and I think that is why I was reading so many different books. Looking for that holy grail. I dunno if I found it, but I still have you. Ultimately, that is what I want to take what we had and make it better together.

NOW,

I was going to copy your post and tell you among other things tell RH how you feel. But, that is really unnecessary isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Who are you? Excellent question. Some people turn to religion to find that answer. Some to books off philosophy. Some turn to actions. Some turn to their friends and spouses.

Let me ask you NOW what do you think defines RH? Seriously, when you look at him what defines him in your mind. Then ask yourself why do you think he is defined this way.

After you have done this sit down with RH and talk about what HE feels defines him. I think you will be surprised abit. Further, I would bet YOU are a large part of his definition of himself.

NOW, your search is a never ending one, but ultimately we are defined by the legacy we leave...our children, their children, our spouses, our friends, our deeds, our beliefs and how we acted upon those beliefs.

Further, NOW you can redefine yourself. It happens here all of the time, it happens in life all of the time.

You are right the MB ideas are about healing a marriage, not a soul.

Frankly, NOW I recommend that you and RH sit down and talk about this and see if you can help one another.

Finally, about privacy it is very different from secrecy. Do you know the difference? Can you articulate it to your H? If you can then I would bet that your "privacy" can be restored as long as you make darn sure there is no "secrecy". Do you see what I mean. Talk to RH about this.

I am sure he enjoys your company, he enjoys talking about what you did and where you go, he is interested in you, and he fears you. Understand his fear, understand his interest, and design a life that meets both of your needs. It can be done, and if it is done in love, it will work well.

Think about that.

God Bless,

JL

NOW,

i'm not sure i can relate. i think i am on the other side of the spectrum. i feel we are both too seperate, my H and I. i crave for more team spirit. maybe too much?

maybe with our opposing viewpoints we can help each oher find a middle ground?

do you work outside the house? how old are you kids?

i work, full time + extra hours, sometimes not many extra hours, sometimes a lot (right now i am in a cycle of a lot of overtime, although we don't get paid overtime but that is a whole different rant). work is a huge identity thing for me, maybe too much... outside of work i sometimes feel like i have no one who knows me. i have a lot of surface type of friends, although i should add, those friendships would go deeper if i didn't stay at arms lengths. i believe i have kept friends at arms length most of the time, not all of the time.

i dream to be a teacher (although lately i now doubt my ability to do that). i do tutor various kids and have had success with the majority of them. i have gotten new requests for tutoring based on recommendations of the parents of those i have tutored. i was even told by my newest girl that her friend (someone i am tutoring) recommended me to her.

for a while i roller skating on a regular basis, i got involved with a group that put on shows. it was actually the kids that first got invited to participate in the show because they were taking sat morning lessons and then someone asked me if i was interested. the kids did two shows and then both decided to quit. i continued for a while but i am not currently doing it. roller skating is not something H can do (although he has truely tried, for my 40th b-day party in 2003, he tried to learn because the party started at a roller rink, then moved to our house. he wanted to skate for me, he had us buy him roller blades for xmas 2002 and practiced in the basement. at the party, he went around a few times, decided he was done but fell as he was leaving the rink and fractured his arm). this occured right at the end of my affairs and about 6 months before i confessed. he was really trying hard to fix his part of the marriage issues at that point. that one was huge for me.

ok, i got to rambling too much. i guess i was just telling you about me to see if those were the type of things that would help you define yourself??

I gave him ALL of me, though now that I think about it, that wasn't worth much....and in the process, LOST myself. And now it looks like I have to do that AGAIN to make him feel safe. So his feeling safe is dependent on me....that is scary. Because I was dependent on HIM to feel whole and safe, and look where it led.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do I feel like I am having to sell my soul to get through this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a more profound question than I think most think.

But it's not "selling" your soul, NOW. It's giving it. It's giving the trust to each other--completely--leaving yourself vulnerable again. And RH too. Tough pill to swallow for each of you--that's why you are having difficulty on where to start. Trust yourself again, NOW. It's OK. You have RH to lean on.

I'm sorta calling the kettle black here, to be quite honest with you. I'm going through life right now in "blind" trust--trust in brown, trust in God, and a little of me too. I can't predict what will happen. But somehow, with all of the above trust and the much support from MB'ers, somehow, somehow I know I/we'll be OK. I had to "give" my soul up though. I'll probably be shot down for saying that, but...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is a resistance to going back to "who they were". I looked for myself in the wrong place. Not just in an affair, but in my marriage, in my kids, etc. And I also happen to feel that most MB principles are band-aids...ok, maybe they serve to improve a MARRIAGE, but I haven't discovered how to find myself aside from the marriage. Is this making any sense????????? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It makes complete sense--to me at least. (Again, ready for the 2x4's.)
I know all about "looking in the wrong place." I once said I should take my act on the road--I'm a great escape artist. What are you running away from, NOW? What is *your* escape? You need to answer these. Not to me, or anybody else here. But first to you, then to RH and take it from there.

MB principles band-aids....Hmmmm....I've had many discussions with brown about this...we weren't true to the plans et al. Especially my "relapse" into renewed contact. But the principles are just that: guides, instructions, a roadmap. Most of them, really, are common sense, when you break them down. But I wasn't one for any type of any kind of "sense" let alone "common." It's just like religion, NOW--extract what works best for you and you and RH. (I can't think of what doesn't work in the principles, actually. JMO.) That sorta contradicts myself, but then again, we wern't in recovery when we didn't follow them.

What in particular do you think is a band-aid? I ask this, not to debate you NOW, but because I was there too--not too long ago.

{{{NOW}}}

{{{NOW/RH}}}

Filling each other's emotional needs....a band-aid. Those needs are really superficial, they only scratch the surface of very deep longing....they provide temporary relief at the most. Those deeper longings cannot be filled by any human being, only by God...and I sit here with a big whole, waiting, waiting, waiting....for God to fill it. RH is doing his absolite best to fill my needs, and the truth is that I don't even really care if those needs are filled anymore....I would stay with him anyway. It's the deep thing....am I supposed to be DOING something? I keep praying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dunno if I found it, but I still have you. Ultimately, that is what I want to take what we had and make it better together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it helps any, this is EXACTLY the way brown and I looked at--a marriage that wasn't built on a great foundation to begin with; an A that caused it to come crashing down; and sifting through the rubble.

I think it was brown's IC that said, "now it's time to pick through the rubble and find what can be used and toss the rest aside; time to rebuild the foundation from all of the solid bricks."

You have each other and are both willing to do this, right? You are both willing to rebuild/improve yourselves, right?

You both know the answers are yes. Maybe a little uncertainty, NOW, because, yeah, it is damn scary. But you are more ahead of the "game" than you think. Give yourself some credit!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and I sit here with a big whole, waiting, waiting, waiting....for God to fill it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trust.

Are you supposed to be doing something? Anything that you are able to, yeah.

Read the serenity prayer, NOW. I've been reading it daily. Somehow, I know it will be OK one day.

It's just so confusing right now....overwhelming. I just don't want RH to "fear" me. I don't want him to be afraid that what I'm going through will lead me to the door. I know that isn't the answer. I'm not such a fool to think that repeating something that didn't work before will work if I try it long enough. That's just insanity.
I know that he wants to help me. And I would like to help him, if he's feeling any of these things too....but I feel completely inadequate right now.
I want to talk to him, but I don't want to get into a discussion while he's at work....I feel too emotional and don't want to suck him in with me....I need him to be stable, I guess. If he starts to cry, I will fall apart. I want to get to a point where I won't, but I am not there yet. I feel too needy right now, and I'm supposed to be protecting him, making him feel safe....HOW can I do that when I feel like this?

what does that big hole feel like NOW? is it a feeling of wanting to know you are OK? i have felt a hole in myself for a long time too, most of my life, i would pray, i believed in God, but i never understood when people would say they have a personal realtionship with God. i just didn't get it and i hated that i could not get it. in that area, i do believe i have made progress. a big part of the progress was understanding how i felt about myself inside and more importantly WHY!! another big part of it has been reading. i really like the beloved apostle and although i have not yet finished it, i really think breaking free is a good book too. both are by beth moore.

Thanks, LINY.
I'm just an [censored] who doesn't deserve anything....I'm not saying that to put myself down....it's the truth, it's the human condition. So, yeah, part of me is saying "Don't give me anything....I don't deserve it."

NOW, a couple of days or so ago RH told me that he thought he and I might be twins seperated at birth because of some of my posts... the more I read your posts the more similarities that I see to Mrs. E in them. I think maybe that's why something I posted the other about her caught your attention. No real great insite just an observation.

From that vantage point though I can tell you that we RH and I wish we could take all of your pain away. If he really is anything like me he's a fixer and it is very hard for us to step back and realize we can't fix the most important thing in the world to us.

FL,

I have read an UNBELIEVABLE number of books on spirituality, books claiming to help you become "closer" to God....and not one has really helped much.
What does the whole feel like? It feels like I am not truly known and loved as I truly am.

I hear people say they are "filled with the Holy Spirit". I say "WTF?" Ok, they say, pray for it....He will answer. I pray. And I sit there feeling like a fool because I still don't know what it means. Then I conclude that either I'm not doing something right, or there is no God.

JL and everyone, thanks for your input...I am thinking about what you said. Or at least, I will.

NOW, you have email. to the addr that RH recently sent to me.

NOW,

I really need to be going to a meeting, but I must post this to you. Your H needs for you to need him. You need him to need you. So will you please stop and realize that you have great value to him, your your friends, to people in general. You are a good person NOW RH knows that.

Don't you see if you were not, he would not be as hurt, nor would he be willing to go through this. You may not feel you know who you are, but he has a pretty good idea and it is GOOD.

Must go, I am late.

Please think about this and talk to him tonight. Heck cry with him tonight, and then laugh at each other. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by notonlywords*:
<strong> Thanks, LINY.
I'm just an [censored] who doesn't deserve anything....I'm not saying that to put myself down....it's the truth, it's the human condition. So, yeah, part of me is saying "Don't give me anything....I don't deserve it." </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Read my sig line--it was such a profound, but truthful statement FL said one time.

Had to convince myself of that too. Or should I say, "unconvince" myself.

<small>[ February 07, 2005, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: LINY ]</small>

NOW, I see more clearly what this is about. Have you accepted God's forgiveness? NOW, I was baptized about 2 years after the end of my A. It took me until my DDAY 3 months ago to accept His forgiveness. I am now to the point of forgiving myself as well. NOW, God is there and He loves you. Ask and you shall receive His gifts of forgiveness, love and His Holy Spirit. You won't find the answer in any book except the Bible. This is a personal journey between you and God. Take your time with it, contemplate the Father's love and forgiveness. Read the psalms, especially the ones written by David.

{{NOW}} You are very brave indeed to come here and open yourself up. I am so proud of you and love you.

Yes, it's a journey between me and God....

One thing JL said, I don't know if i agree. Well, I see what he's saying, but....
He said RH needs me to need him, and I need him to need me.
What I WANT is for him to WANT me, regardless of whether or not he NEEDS me. If he could say to me, "Onlywords, I don't NEED you, but I want you and I love you"....that would be a dream come true. And I want to be able to say the same to him. Right now, it seems we are clinging to each other because we NEED each other, and not that that is necessarily a bad thing, it just isn't a good foundation to build on, IMO.

FF, I thought I had forgiven myself. Truthfully, I don't know for sure if I have, or not! And I guess, I know in my head that I am forgiven by God, but how I can convince myself is another story.
Funny you should mention the Psalms....I was preaching that to LINY just the other day!
Head and heart not in sync....that's what it is. Someone on the boards said that....I can't recall who! (ORchid maybe?)

Well, I must go....everyone's home now.

Love,
NOW