Ok...this has been an on going issue for as long as we have known each other....almost 13 years! We are high school sweethearts. The only way to describe what both he and I are thinking is to copy and past our latest e-mail from Friday and today. The two biggest problems we'd like help on, or advice of maybe what worked for others?

1) He and I really only communicate effectivly through e-mail. Why, I don't know? Maybe because I'm not being animated or LB with my looks, sighs, or responding right away?

2) I will bring up an issue or topic that needs addressing...the extent of it...he either tells me what or how he is really feeling and that's it. It stops there. We don't ever fix WHY i feel that way or fix any thing else. It gets swept under the rug until it happens again or it just plain blows up.

Please see the last e-mail between us and if you need questions answered BEFORE you can help. Just let me know. He will be reading this as well


From Hubby: Did you want me to bring you anything? If your sad, we need to work on cheering you up so you can function! :-)

From me: Yes we do, but it's just not possible right now. I really don't know how to do it. All I know is, I'm not comfortable talking anymore. I can't help who I am...yet I feel like all of my communication skills are bad and you've NEVER been able to be comfortable with me. Yet our marriage was near the end just 3 months ago partly because of this reason and yet the only way to fix it is for me to change.
I've spent over 12 years with you trying to become a better person...maybe not so quickly in the beginning, but to be what I was and what I am now. It's not easy...but to feel better and be a nicer person to be around, I've made a lot of changes. The other night brought a lot of things to light.

~ I'll NEVER be changed in your eyes
~ You'll always see me as a threat when you try talking to me - meaning you'll NEVER open up to me - unless you keep stuff from me
~ I ask too many questions
~ I'm confrontational
~ Very hard person to communicate - hold conversation with
~ I put words in your mouth - tell you how you are feeling
~ I yell too much
~ I turn things around - situations, etc...

I can't even really remember everything that was said...i wished I would have kept mental notes that night.
For some reason, all that you said that night really hurt and stuck with me. I really feel like our entire time together has just been, I don't know...you thinking you could manage with the way I am, and now that you can't I have to change to keep you?
I've changed as much as I can so far. I try and listen to what you say I do and become a better person.

But I can't just stop asking questions when I don't understand something. That's me...it's who I am. I do that in every situation of my life...every aspect. Doesn't matter who or what it is. I'll ask questions to my doctor, my co-worker, my boss, God, my mom, Taylor...yet, you see it as a negative.

So...now I'm just not comfortable, period.

I don't know how to explain it.

Your prolly wondering..."why was she fine yesterday, this morning and now this?" Well, I've gotten really good at letting things go and moving forward, etc...not on my own of course, but only thru Christ helping me. What I haven't mastered yet, is learning what the heck I do when triggers come up...or actually learning to WORK THROUGH THE TRIGGERS. Just because I can forgive, get in a better mood, and just be positive. I guess I'm surpressing it and the smallest thing is bringing it up. Like this morning...being remind that I'll never be more important then the computer. I got down...and then the way it was handled communication wise....brought the other night up and all my feelings.

My thoughts of our failure/trouble/lack of communication...as of the other night...rest SOLELY ON MY shoulders.

From Hubby: Sorry it took so long. I got the impression you would rather talk about it through email though, so I didn't bring it up this weekend. Let me start out by saying that I don't think your communications skills are bad. But they can be confrontational and intimidating at times. Unfortunately, that shuts me down. So the problem isn't all with you, it is me also. So don't blame yourself because it takes two people. Also, you have done a lot of changing and I do see that and appreciate it. I hope you haven't done it just for me though. I hope you feel like a better person yourself and that you did it mainly for you. But I do love who you are and I am very aware of the changes you have gone through and I am very proud of you.

From me: Why do you still get the impression that this is for you?!! I did this for me...to improve me and make me happier. Since it had a negative impact on you, it affects you and improves US. But this was never about you.
Some of what you say believe is stuff you said to me back during your off time. Are you feeling that way again?

From Hubby: I don't get that impression. I just wanted to make sure is all. No, I'm not feeling the same way as before. I've had a hard time talking for a while though (way before last year). I usually end up saying how I feel, but it is hard for me sometimes. Sometimes we can talk and speak freely without either of us getting extremely upset and that is when I can speak the most freely to you about how I feel.


From me: ok...I don't really know what else to say. Something just seems off between us sometimes. Sometimes it feels like old times and other times it feels like...I don't know. Like you don't love me. Not in love with me still.

For some reason I get the impression that you don't really want to fix us. Like you just answer my questions as bare minimum as possible. Or when I talk to you about something you just tell me no that's not right or you answer it. Then that's it. If I don't say anything more, it's dropped and never brought up again. But the problem, issue still remains. This has always be a problem with us. Yet, we are still here and still have the problem. I don't understand. How can we affair proof and make our marriage wonderful if we aren't willing to address things? Fix them? take steps each day in a positive direction? make sure we are both feeling wonderful...
I don't think we can fix something if we don't WORK at it. We've always just swept things under the carpet...but we can't do that.

What are your thoughts on that?

From Hubby: I think sometimes you take my silence or lack of communication as me not loving you or not interested in you. I would say that 9 times out of 10 it is simply me not knowing how to talk to you at that moment or what to say. I know it isn't a good thing that I have problems communicating with you, but at the same time it doesn't mean I don't love you. When you start showing your frustration or anger, you get very animated and can even start talking down to me. I don't know that you even notice...I think it is just something you got from being raised by Dave. Believe me, I wish I wasn't as sensitive and didn't let it shut me down...but it does. I think sometimes you take my silence or lack of communication as me not loving you or not interested in you. I would say that 9 times out of 10 it is simply me not knowing how to talk to you at that moment or what to say. I know it isn't a good thing that I have problems communicating with you, but at the same time it doesn't mean I don't love you. When you start showing your frustration or anger, you get very animated and can even start talking down to me. I don't know that you even notice...I think it is just something you got from being raised by Dave. Believe me, I wish I wasn't as sensitive and didn't let it shut me down...but it does.

I think you would find that I could talk things out with you and even resolve issues more often if I wasn't going into shutdown mode.

From me: Ok...so how are we going to reach this? I don't think we need to keep just pointing out the issues. I think we both know what we need to work on. Now we need to start working towards something. Here below, you offer NO WAY OF fixing it. You just re-state that I'm taking you the wrong way and then you tell me what it really is.


From Hubby: Well, that book that I started reading last weekend was really good. It offered ways and suggestions of how to start a conversation without immediately putting someone on the defensive. I'm sure we could both learn from it. I only read about 5 - 10 pages, but I could already tell it would be helpful. I could read it also, although, I'm sure I would be a little slower getting it finished.

From me: Well can we make it a plan that we both read just a couple of pages a day? Something like that and then talk about it if we need to? I don't want to push anything on you or make you dread it, but I'm thinking that you and I both don't know what to do...so we are like stuck looking at each other.

Finding Christ and becoming a Christian along my search to be a Godly woman has NOTHING to do about YOU....ONLY ME.


But becoming a better WIFE and MOTHER...has EVERYTHING to do about YOU AND OUR KIDS. I know my faults and I hope that you will always bring up ideas of ways to make you feel better. Now I just need to fix them. But I need you to WANT to fix your little faults. You know?

Commitments are tough...so I need a commitment from you on this. We can make it as small as needed. Shoot, if only one page a day is all you'd like to do, then that's something to me.

The book sat there for over a week before I finally just closed it and put it away. I hope you can understand that seeing that book not move an inch for that long...SHOWS me something. Make sense?

It showed the lack of your commitment and interest...
I don't think that's your thoughts on it...but when you really want something done or it interests you...it NEVER just sits there.

You sound alot like me. I had to learn to let my WH feel comfortable around me and knwo that I would not deman answers. So when he brought something painful up I would tell him I needed to think and not just answer in anger. I was nagery and it showed. They will talk when they feel safe? Don't know if that is the right word. Like when we were first together they would tell you things when we first met. When there have been problems in the R both parties need to feel loved. Have you read His needs/her needs? Or Love Busters. What he sees is he tells you one thing and you twist it so it means something else. I have done that many times. Like when my H told me he did not have sex with this woman - I knew that meant he wanted to but she refused. So I said so YOU WANTED RO HAVE SEX WITH HER..Screaming it at him. Of course he did he already told me that. it hurt why did I have to throw that in his face. He knew I heard it. It hurt . I just wanted to hurt him back and let him see what he just told me. Now I wait and think about things and try to answer when I get over some of the intense anger. I do not know if I have helped you but your H sounds like mine. He is a conflict avoider. He is afraid he will loose me. I have grown apart and do not need him but choose to be with him. I am a survivor. Hope this helps.

LWIT,

What book was he reading? Sounds like U 2 need to review His Needs/Her Needs....first read it separately then together.

Howz about u 2 setting up some phone counseling with Steve H @ MB?

U 2 appear t/b talking on 2 different planes. Neither happy with the other yet each feels they are understanding the other. Hopeless cycle.

U both have more going for u 2 than you realize. However if this vicious cycle of hurt keeps on happening, u 2 will end up headed for a trip to nowhere for the M and maybe D.

Right now you have the tools to improve your communication. Realize that both of you have offered valid input and if personally applied could really improve your POV of yourselves and each other.

H accused me of beng intimidating. All 4'10" of me. LOL!!! But then again so did other people. Yep, even my dad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> What I noticed was I had a direct way of approaching a problem and when I dealt particularly with conflict avoiders, I met with the wall and barrel my way right through it. My M.O. was to deal with an issue or problem 1 time. Do it right the 1st time.

Ok, so that approach didn't work for all. I made some modifications and it captured the audience of sincere yet conflict avoiding people. The stubborn ones were still an issue but revisions to my approach worked.

Take a look at HNHN. Be objective for you and then see how you can make changes to benefit both of you, together. It w/b a give and take situation. It helped our M.

JMHO,
L.

Here is a great book on communication problems whci (I feel) also fits in superbly with MB principles.
We Can Work It Out: How to Solve Co...ove for Each Other by Clifford Notarius,

I haven't read everything, but reading the first exchange, my take is you both seemed to "blame" each other.

Examples:

H said, "If you are sad, we need...."

Well, that's a DJ and a possible blame shift

It might better be said, "When you are sad, it makes me feel __________. I don't always know what to do, so I would appreciate any clues from you letting me know what you want from me so I give you the support you desire.


You said, " I feel like all of my communication skills are bad and you've NEVER been able to be comfortable with me."

You are putting some blame on him by bringing up his discomfort. Why can't he be uncomfortable? You are uncomfortable talking to him. Should I say that you shouldn't feel that way? No, then don't allude to the idea that he shouldn't be uncomfortable with you.

The following list you give is a combination of all sorts of DJ's (which may explain why he is afraid to open up and uncomfortable at times.) and a session where you beat yourself up.

Let me see what I can do with that list...

~ I'll NEVER be changed in your eyes

Ok, you start with a DJ. Why not say how you feel. I worry that you cannot see my changes.

~ You'll always see me as a threat when you try talking to me - meaning you'll NEVER open up to me - unless you keep stuff from me

Another DJ an exaggeration, and you really don't know the future, I don't either.

I believe you see me as a threat right now, and I want to learn to not be so threatening to you. Sometimes it's hard for me to change this behavior, so I want to find a way for you to feel safe to share your feelings and concerns with me.

~ I ask too many questions

Another DJ, yep, maybe he doesn't feel this way.

Re-written, do you think I ask too many questions?

~ I'm confrontational

~ Very hard person to communicate - hold conversation with

~ I put words in your mouth - tell you how you are feeling

Ok, that's a great admission, even while you do that in this list <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

~ I yell too much
~ I turn things around - situations, etc...

Again, these are your judgments.

Why not just say, I'm trying to yell less, avoid turning things around, putting feelings into your words, etc.

Instead of telling him how you feel, why not tell him the things you are working on and what kind of support you want from him.

Something like, "H, I really want to communicate better, here are the things I'm working on. Can you share with me which of these are really big concerns with you, and do you have any ideas of how you could politely tell me when I'm annoying you with one of these behaviors."

Leave the judgments of him out of it, and politely enlist him as a subject matter expert on how he feels.

Maybe you start small, asking his opinion on something, and even if you disagree, simply thank him for sharing.

Start building up his confidence in sharing how he feels, without judgments coming from you.

The biggest part of communication is listening, and if you are filling in or guessing how he is feeling, then you are not listening.

So just listen for a while <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

T

Realtor

I also believe you’d consider him a conflict avoider…but what would you classify me?

Orchard ~

The book my H was referring to was “How to say it – For Couples (Communicating with Tenderness, openness, and honesty)” by Dr. Paul Coleman.
We had bought it a couple years ago, but have never even cracked the book. I asked him to read it almost 2 weeks ago and he was on page 9 then and he still is to this very day.

You said we appear to be talking on two different planes…our M counselor also pointed that out. He and I will be talking about the same issue…but be saying it two different ways. So we don’t connect long enough to get to a solution. Because neither of us realizes we are talking about same thing. We know this about us, but we don’t know how to fix it.

Setting up phone counseling with Steve H…how would we go about doing that?

You said you’ve also been referred to as being intimidating…have you tried to change that? I want to, and I think I have a lot, but not enough. It hurts my feelings that I make people feel that way. My father treated me like this growing up. It’s taken 13+ years to try to change it.

We are going to buy and read HNHN

Chris ~

Thank you for the link. I’m going to read and absorb anything and everything I can get my hands on.

JavaSans ~

What does DJ stand for? So basically when I remind him or repeat back to him how he feels that is bad and causing him to feel uncomfortable? I only want to better understand this because he isn’t completely sure why he is uncomfortable.
I know many times we both end up saying, “I wished I would have never even brought it up”


For everyone…another huge problem we are having is when I ask him why about many actions he takes…his response is usually “well I just assumed” or “I thought that…” and so I’ve asked him to please not just assume what or how I’ll handle something and just start asking me. But just yesterday he said…”what am I suppose to ask you?”

Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to read this and respond!

Hugs,
Loving

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>y LovingWifeInTexas: ...You said we appear to be talking on two different planes…our M counselor also pointed that out. He and I will be talking about the same issue…but be saying it two different ways. So we don’t connect long enough to get to a solution. Because neither of us realizes we are talking about same thing. We know this about us, but we don’t know how to fix it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Read HnHn. Then see if you can apply the info.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>y LovingWifeInTexas: Setting up phone counseling with Steve H…how would we go about doing that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Go to the top of this page and click on 'counsel'. There s/b a phone number there. They will ask if you and your H will do some homework. That includes taking the emotional needs questionnaire. The sooner you do this, the sooner you can have an appt. It w/b worth the effort.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>y LovingWifeInTexas: You said you’ve also been referred to as being intimidating…have you tried to change that? I want to, and I think I have a lot, but not enough. It hurts my feelings that I make people feel that way. My father treated me like this growing up. It’s taken 13+ years to try to change it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: I have been charged as such primarily by conflict avoiders. For those who are trying to improve themselves, I have worked well with them. For those who are insistent on being conflict avoiders, most balk when I give them back their troubles. That is why the WS and I hit head on. I don't back down from that stance.

What did change was my head on approach. I let people know I am willing to hear them out and work with them but that work and discussion is 2 sided. We need to agree on a common goal, objective or purpose.

I am quite the cooperative one or c/b a real stinker if someone wants to play games. Life for me is not a game. I don't have the time or the energy to take unneccesary risks.

I want to enjoy my life but not put myself and others at risk for the sake of someone or something stupid.

Remember when someone calls you intimidating, ask for an example. Try to see if it is legitimate or just babble. Work with the valid claims and make appropriate adjustments. Throw the babble back to the originator.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>y LovingWifeInTexas: We are going to buy and read HNHN </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Good.

L.

DJ is a Disrespectful Judgement.

See more info here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html

If you believe you should straighten your Hubby out, or he shouldn't feel a certain way, or you tell him how he SHOULD feel, you've just exhibited a DJ.

Or when you say things like he will never... how do you know he will never...