I wonder how you are doing every now and again and if you read anymore of Breaking Free. I kinda let it get away from me and then when i suggested it to NOW today, i realized it would be good for me to get back to it too.

i am doing ok, H and I have ups and downs, right now i would say is pretty ground level, not up or down. not seeing him much between a cold of his and my crazy work hours.

i will be sending a email to my brother in the next few days to air out what occured in our childhood. i am nervous about how that will go. and yet i know i need to do it. my hope is that it will not only help me to continue to heal from it all but that it may also free him from any bonds that have a hold on him. when i subtly mentioned it 3-4 yrs ago, he acted like he had no idea what i was referring to and i quickly dropped it. i am hoping with it being an email and with it written out of love and not anger, cuz i really do love him regardless, we will both end up better off. of course my fear is it will cause a rift between us but i have to take that chance.

how are you?

bump ^

FLT2M -

Hi again!

I have a bad habit of buying books, reading a couple chapters, and then forgetting all about them! There are books all over my house that I've read the first few chapters several times but have never finished.

My goal this month was to start reading the Bible every day like I used to, but I'm really having trouble disciplining myself. I'm not working right now, so I have plenty of time, but at the end of the day, I just can't figure out what I did with all my time!

I hope things go well with your brother. I've heard that abusers "always" deny it when confronted. It would be great if the two of you could have honest communication about it and be healed.

Wasn't he 13 when it happened? Do you think someone molested him? Kids learn about sex from somewhere, so I was just wondering.

My M seems to be in a lull right now. My A seems finally to seem farther and farther away in the past, but there are still triggers for both my H and I. We both are staying busy involved in day-to-day activities. Church functions are about the only thing we do together, but it has really been good for us.

One problem we have is that my H (who had an extended EA years ago that caused us quite a lot of problems before my PA) began an R with a young woman about a year after d-day. I believe that it's not sexual, or even romantic, but she does fill his need for respect and admiration.

When it began, I asked him to stop, but he said he prayed about it and decided it was o.k. (???!!!) He talks to her on the phone for at least 2 hours at a time, at least once a week (usually late at night - bedtime, in fact), and when she's in town, they get together.

He says she seems like family to him. I tell him she's NOT family, but my feelings don't count. I've tried to get involved in the R, but I don't really like her, so it's boring and annoying for me.

I've thought about posting about this before, but I don't want to reveal too much detail, because I'm paranoid about being recognized on line. I don't really care if my H reads this, but I still have to think carefully before I write anything.

After a year of his R with her, I told my pastor about this, and he said for us to come in and he would set my H straight, but I chickened out.

It's weird, but as long as my H has this young woman in his life, he's easier to get along with, and when he's in a bad mood, my life is obviously more difficult. So, I've opted to just "put up" with the situation, although I KNOW it's not healthy for any of us.

She has a BF, so we hear from her less. It's a weird situation, but emotionally I feel like I just can't deal with the fallout of even trying to POJA this. My H isn't into POJA.

He definitely has always had different rules for himself than he does for me. Mostly I think he really believes that if there is no SF in the R, then it is o.k., no matter what I think or feel.

He still doesn't understand why his first EA upset me so much. This isn't an excuse for my A, but I know that I allowed the anger and resentment I felt about that first OW to get me to the emotional state I was in when I started my A.

It's funny when I read about other people's situations, it's so easy to think I know what they should do, but then when it's my situation, I can see how much harder it is to deal with because of so many other factors involved.

Anyway, we're hanging in there. My H has been very nice lately (except when he's not. lol). He's moody, but then again, I guess I can be moody, too.

One day at a time, huh?

God bless,

Rose

Hi Rose,

long day for me, i am just finally seeing this now.

thanks for the well wishes regarding my brother, i was about 13 (seventh grade), he was about 17(jr in HS). i hope it goes well too. i am hoping he will see my heart is in the right place, i am not trying to beat him up, i am just trying to free myself and perhaps him as well from all of this. i expect to send him the note before the end of the week.

regarding books... i have the SAME bad habit!!! but reading some is better than reading none, right?? and they are always there for us to go back to. of course the bible is the best book of all.

regarding your current situation... ROSE, AVOIDING CONFLICT WILL GET YOU NO WHERE!!!!

yes that is a 2x4!!! although i will also send you empathy too, i understand how appealing conflict avoiding can be, my problem is that i try to avoid conflict everywhere and that is impossible to do at the same time. specfically to avoid conflict between my H and me vrs my family and me. my H comes first, this i do know, so if the ONLY reason for wanting to see my family would be to make THEM happy then i would question my actions. but the truth is I WANT TO SEE MY FAMILY STILL!!! we will be talking about this very issue tonight in fact. my mom's 70th b-day is coming up, my siblings started an email chain between the 4 of us about surprising her. of course my note to my brother is already going to put a strain on everything, now i have the additional strain of knowing has demands on just how this b-day thing happens and if it will include our kids.

i found out today, he has told the kids they do not have to go see my family ever again if they did not want to. this occured a few weeks ago. he only told me today. he says they are relived, but i think that is his interpretation. my famliy has never been mean to them. however, the xmas party at my brothers (me and kids attended only) was a mess at the beginning cuz i broke down into tears for a while. i know the kids were VERY uncomfortable, i felt terrible about it. but is the answer to tell them that "hey kids, since your mom is struggling with her family and it is possible that seeing them will again result in her getting upset, you guys don't have to go" i'm really kind of hurt by this.

when i told him this on the phone, when i shared my perspective and i seriously did it in a very non-LBing way, his response was, well if that is the way you choose to look at it....

i re-told him i understood his goal is to protect the kids and that i believe that is a wonderful goal. i just wish we had talked about it before he said that to them.

this past weekend, he has also told me that he wants to tell the kids that the reason i was upset at xmas party is due to some self-centered behavior on my brother's part that impacted me. he has it all worked out in his head as to exactly what he wants to say. i am glad he shared this with me before doing it and he agreed to wait until he and i talked about it more.

i had been thinking about wanting to talk to the kids about xmas too, actually i wanted to talk about more than that. i wanted to appologize for the amount of turmoil that has occured over the last few years, and very specifically to apologize for once telling them we were going to seperate. i wanted to take ownership for that, take ownership and apolgize. as well as to give my H credit for holding us together.

boy did i get into rambling... wasn't actually expecting to do that. and now that i have, i may have to post it again in another topic so i can get some feedback!!!

keep in touch Rose and DON"T AVOID THAT CONFLICT!!! it didn't work very well before and it will NOT work well now either!!!

FLT2M -

You are SO right about the conflict avoiding habit! Earlier this morning, my H and I were talking on the phone, and we admitted that we both felt like we have become disconnected and agreed that all 4 of us (with our kids included) are major, big time conflict avoiders!

He and I agreed to find time to finally have an R talk again soon. I think I'll save my above reply to you (about the young woman) and have it as a "script" when he and I talk, so I can explain my feelings about her to him.

As far as your family get-togethers go, I know it is hard when there are problems and kids are involved. My main advice (which you have probably already thought of) is not to leave your kids alone with your brother.

Once my kids got old enough to stay home alone, we stopped making them go on trips with us, even to their grandparents or other relatives. I remember how I was when I was a teenager (my family is super messed up, too, but then again, whose isn't, sadly enough)- I sometimes didn't want to go.

It's a hard call. Once my grandparents died, I often have wished that I had gone on more trips to be with them when I was a teenager! I hope you get lots of good advice about it on your other thread!

God bless,

Rose

Hi Rose,

just wanted to say that I can relate, that I feel that in some ways our situations are similar. H has always had female friends (I also have some male friends). I'm also sure that they weren't sexual or romantic, just friendships. Having friends has always been important to him, as he has often felt he didn't know as many people as he would have liked, due to moving countries etc. Sometimes in the past I wasn't comfortable with his friendships, in particular, when he wanted to see her without me, when she was single, when he was spending more time than I was comfortable with, etc. There have been about 3 occasions when I wasn't comfortable and told him that. I also felt that he disregarded my feelings, since to him, if he wasn't having a romantic or sexual R, he wasn't doing anything wrong.

I also think this is what contributed to distance in our R in the time before my A. Its still an issue between us that we have discussed a fair bit, without coming up with a solution.
Hope things go better than that for you!

Hi smur,

It's a quandry, isn't it? Because, on one level, I really do understand that his EA's don't seem as bad as crossing that line and becoming physical (except I saw him kissing OW #1, and some could argue that that IS physical) - especially when I realize how much better I would feel if I had never crossed that line.

There have been SO many times that I wish I had stopped when my A was still in the EA stage. SO many times when I've thought, "IF ONLY, IF ONLY, IF ONLY..." Looking at it that way, it seems like I could easily accept my H's side of the argument, and agree with him that I am so much worse than he is.

BUT, it's SO hard to be reminded of my lies, deception, and actions (the A is still kept very much in my face), when my H lied, deceived, and continued contact with OW #1 for YEARS. Not to mention the fact that we still have to see her sometimes at some of his work parties. I keep thinking my H should be able to better understand some of my past actions by remembering how he felt about OW.

It just seems like I am constantly being made to feel like I am unforgiveable. I know my H doesn't really believe I'm unforgiveable, and I truly understand why it is hard for him, and that it takes massive amounts of time to get to forgiveness from here.

It's obvious that H has been doing a lot of thinking and soul searching to get to the place where he can forgive me. He often says the right things about forgiving me and working on the M, but his actions often say the opposite. I know this is the continuation of the familiar roller coaster ride we're on.

How long can it be healthy for my H or me to live in this environment? Like everyone else, I guess we just have to keep keeping on, and continue to fight for our M. And I guess that IF the day to give up ever comes, we will know it.

I hope this doesn't sound like babbling. I guess I'm feeling a little angry today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's just that I wonder how long I will wear the scarlet A. Someone on MB told me something to the effect that I'll wear it until I take it off and refuse to wear it anymore. What do you think about that concept?

Rose

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Rose55 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's just that I wonder how long I will wear the scarlet A. Someone on MB told me something to the effect that I'll wear it until I take it off and refuse to wear it anymore. What do you think about that concept? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this. I think if you and your H are now more than 2 years past Dday, and he is still blaming, not taking responsibility for the times he hurt you in the past, and justifying his hurtful behaviour by comparing it to your A, then its very important to talk about this with him and depending on his response, make your own decisions.

I have great sympathy for you in this issue, because self respect has been a problem for me in the past too. But I guess, when I get to a point where I do respect and forgive myself completely in the knowledge that I have grown and changed, and that I have done everything I can to repair my R (I'm getting there), then I will value myself enough not to accept hurtful behaviour, or to be around people who continue to hurt me.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: smur ]</small>

Hi Rose,

Just wanted to say hi and that I hope your talk with your H went well.
(((Rose)))

I am also trying to encourage more talk and trying not to avoid conflict, a life long habit of mine.
Those ones are the hardest to change....

Thanks, smur!

My H and I talked when he got home from work last night and agreed that we have to stop avoiding conflict. He told me some things he was worried about - some things I had said or done that made him think I might be in contact with FOM. I'm not in contact, but I often wonder if H is wondering if I am.

So, anyway, once we talked those things through, he felt WAY better, and has said twice since then that he really wants to schedule time to talk about serious R stuff more often again. We had gotten away from doing that.

I having been avoiding talking about our R, because it can be like walking into a hornet's nest for me! However, last night went really well, and H even commented that we are light years ahead of where we were 2 years ago as far as discussing things goes!

I also mentioned to him that the way he treats me sometimes makes me feel unforgiveable, and he said he forgives me, but that he has a lot of pain, anger, and resentment. I pointed out that being treated with anger and resentment feels a lot like not being forgiven. He understood.

He reminded me about the praying and soul searching he is doing to try to overcome those things. I agree that he is working on it.

He called me from work this morning to tell me again that he really feels better after talking. I'm really glad, but I still feel a little blue.

I'm also having trouble finding a job I want, so that has me in a funk, and stuff like that takes a toll on a M, too. My being mildly depressed is one of the things that made him think I was in contact with FOM, so we talked about my job hunt problems, too.

Right now I want to go get Valentine cards for our nieces and nephew, but I'm afraid I will buy myself chocolate, too! I have a problem with comfort eating! My weight is another issue in our M. I've just lost 10 lbs, but am losing my resolve to stay on my diet and exercise plan (I want to lose 20 more).

Well, this is all just my "life stuff" that I have to keep my chin up and continue dealing with.

How are you?

Rose

I'm so glad to hear it went well, that it was as good for him as for you, and that you both see how far you've come.

I'm ok, thanks for asking. Last night I had a horrible dream about H having a new GF, who then was being really friendly to me!
This morning I told him about my dream and asked for a hug, which he gave me, and I felt much better. Sometimes its the little things...

hi rose (and smur!)

work has been nuts, i am just reading all this now, i'm glad the talking went good and i'm glad smur picked up the slack and posted here in my absense!!!

great job rose!!!