Tireman - you are scared and upset and probably a little drunk right now. Just slow down and do me a favor, ok?

Send me your phone number to my email address. We can talk this over. I've hurt and been hurt before, I want to talk. Tireman, I'm serious here. This is what I do for a REAL TIME JOB - I'm here to confort and help thru any confusing time, and I am VERY GOOD AT IT. Please contact me.

David

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Orchid, DIL = daughter-in-law, right?

"Many types of relationships, which are defined as incestuous, are between genetically unrelated parties (a stepfather and a daughter), or between fictive kin or between classificatory kin (that belong to the same matriline or patriline). "
http://samvak.tripod.com/incest.html


"Incest, which is usually considered a felony, is either marriage, sexual intercourse, or deviate sexual acts between people who are too closely related. The relationship which is considered "too close" varies widely from state to state, although the majority of states only include blood relationships in that category."
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/violent_crimes/incest.htm


---


Tireman, the more you are aware of what you did, the more you have the chance to get out of the position you are in now.
Drinking is not one of them.
You need a sobber mind to find a solution.

I never did something like that, but I did some other things that I was deeply ashamed of... and I can understand you.

Yes, nobody is perfect, nobody is sinless, and God fill forgive to all of us.
But what I do hope, not before all of us take responsibility for our own doings, and pay some prices... and so far we don't close our eyes in front of them but use them to become better persons - we have hope to be healed...

Maybe it'd be the best for you if you talk to your pastor?, moreover with someone who dealt with the same problem, to see what people usually do and how they heal, and how they help healing their beloved ones they hurt...

I don't want to add to your pain, you are big enough to already know what all of this is, right?

The best to your son, and to you too.

I don't dirnk. Thst tha problem. She brought this stiff over last night to talk aout my son. We got druink ans I told her howlonmly it is with WW gone andu not talkign to her planB. SHe hugged me and thren I threw away my world. I know I need hlep - ands I donm;t want to go, but I domt see what tod o.

OK, you don't drink, but you did last night and if you didn't probably THAT wouldn't hapenned (?)

The same is now - if keep drinking you might make another hard mistake, so tomorrow you'd have two big problems.

So - stop drinking!, try to sleep, then you might be able to get some better ideas what to do Tomorrow.

Umm - tireman - why don't you put down the bottle, and put down that gun, and go find a nice warm, comfortable bed where you can dream for a while. You need sleep, friend - a lot of sleep. It can heal a lot. Just go to bed. But please, tomorrow - send me your phone number - and like others have suggested - when you read this tomorrow - contact your pastor and look up some support groups that can help you. And STAY WITH US HERE. I'D LIKE TO SAY ALL OF US, BUT I WILL INSTEAD SAY MOST OF US CARE WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU AND WANT YOU TO WORK ON YOURSELF AND FIX WHAT YOU CAN.

Thinking about you

David

Please, please, please....go to sleep.

Go lay down right now.

Leave the alcohol where it is.

Lay down, close your eyes.

Pray. (I hate to admit it, but it does help me to fall asleep. Even so, the power of prayer will help to heal you tonight. Even if it's just to get you to sleep so you can wake to the possibility of a new day.)

Nothing is as bad in the morning. Tomorrow don't drink. Get over the hangover. Don't drink. Figure out a plan....tomorrow with a clear head.

tireman sounds like david could help you threw all this pain and remember she came over and she had the drink and well she..... so you are at fault but you are also human and the bible say to err is human. Give david a chance to help you! Blessings and prayers! kcccjc

Tireman,

Just because you can't see how to get through this right now, doesn't mean there is a not a solution. Ask God to help - He will. He is always there just waiting for us to ask. God throws our "stuff" - the things that we think are awful into the Sea of forgetfulness. He can do for us what we can't do for ourselves.

What your feeling is God given. It's a good sign that that you feel that way. You will get through the pain and remorse - if you don't believe that yourself, then use our belief in you and in God.

Can you change what you had for lunch yesterday? No? Can you change anything about what happened now? No. The only thing you can change is how you respond from here. Choose to give it up to God - He can handle it - He can handle anything.

I am praying for you and will keep on praying.

D.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> Orchid, DIL = daughter-in-law, right?

"Many types of relationships, which are defined as incestuous, are between genetically unrelated parties (a stepfather and a daughter), or between fictive kin or between classificatory kin (that belong to the same matriline or patriline). "
http://samvak.tripod.com/incest.html


"Incest, which is usually considered a felony, is either marriage, sexual intercourse, or deviate sexual acts between people who are too closely related. The relationship which is considered "too close" varies widely from state to state, although the majority of states only include blood relationships in that category."
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/violent_crimes/incest.htm
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read the link you provided. It was not clear though it did give the example of stepfather and stepdaughter.

Here is what else I found on about.com:

Incest: Incest is sexual relations or sexual contact of any kind with a relative so close that marriage is illegal......Incest may also occur when there is an imbalance of power between the people involved, as in a relationship between a teacher and a student. Stepparents and stepchildren relationships seem to blur the line, but generally any sexual contact between legally related persons is considered incest.

This is being responded to as a point of clarification. These were 2 at the time consenting adults who are not blood related. One has shown regret and not sure the other is regretful. Hope one day she will be.

The pointh here however, is to help TM, get the help he needs.

TM, this is a hurdle but one you can overcome. Call someone you trust and discuss this problem out. Don't be ashamed. Your repentance will help you heal.

If you can, call an MBer as well. I believe David offered you his #. Use it.

Please put all weapons out of your reach. Have someone come over and help you do that. Then let us know. ok?

take care,
L.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid is right. This is not a case of incest - not by any state law I can find, and I have some pretty good resources at hand, being married to who I am - went thru her library of statutes. As far as I can tell, if she were not married to his son, there would be nothing to separate them from marrying each other. So incest is out of the question. The question is one that we can help with - guilt over betraying an entire family. That is serious enough in itself, and requires a lot of prayer and time and talk. I hope he calls me - I've worked suicide hotlines for a long time, and I also deal with attempted suicides at work now. I am good with what I do, and I know I can help him. He just has to reach out for us.

My prayers are with you, Tireman

David

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

TM,

I said a prayer for you as well, just that God would bring you through this and that you would come out on the other end stronger in faith and closer to him than when you went in.

No doubt, you don't have an easy road ahead of you. But you also have a Lord and savior who can be the strength you need, if you'll let him help.

Look at King David. He messed up big time himself. Slep with another man's wife, got her pregnant, and purposely sent her husband into the front lines of battle to have him killed. No doubt God was not happy.

But he turned to God in his sorrow. He had some rough times. But look how God used him!!

I'm not saying what you did was no big deal. It was huge! But you know that already.

What you need to know is how to get past it and keep living.

LL

tm, Nothing is bad enough to take your life. My 23 year old stepson, who I helped raise since he was less than a year old, shot himself last June while very drunk. I cannot express to you the pain his death has caused to everyone in his family as well as his friends. I, too, worked at a suicide hotline many years ago and remember a training film about the people left behind after someone committed suicide. It was very powerful, and now that I've experienced it myself, very true. People who kill themselves often believe people would be better off without them. This is NEVER true. You leave them in terrible, terrible pain. Whatever you have done already will be made much, much worse by your suicide.

You have to know that your feelings will change with time. You were hurting, you were drunk, you were tempted and you did something you now regret enough to consider suicide. If you were an immoral person, you wouldn't care. Obviously you are a moral person and this is why you are so hurt by your actions. But don't make it worse by suicide. There is absolutely NOTHING you could do that would be worse for your family than that. Believe me, I've been there.

Tireman

STOP

Close your eyes

Imagine you are in a lovely meadow with a softly babbling brooke.

Now breath in.....Feel the crisp and clean air as you breath.

Now open your eyes...It is time to deal with the issues at hand.....

Yes you made a mistake....and you "think" all is lost....well honey thats the alcohol talking....it's a depressant...and it's gonna drag you down....Now I know you have a heap of troubles....But It can be worked out.....number one....turn off your phone. And this includes unplugging your home phone for a bit. Now you say you have no one left.....that you feel like ending your life because of this.....Have you read this thread? Look at all the people who have replied....and they have replied...because they care....they care about you. We all have come to this site to lean on each other....I am sure others have leaned on you....well now it's time to return the favor. Take the bottle of whatever your drinking to the sink and dump it....along with anything else that would be available.....then take a shower....getting clean will help you feel a little better.....then I want you to crawl into bed...and sleep...with no interuptions...no T.V.....No Telephone...nothing.....and then write us in the morning. Your gonna feel like hell but sleep on it and then come back here so we can help you start getting past this....*hugs* lord knows you need it....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LetSTry:
<strong> tm, Nothing is bad enough to take your life. My 23 year old stepson, who I helped raise since he was less than a year old, shot himself last June while very drunk. I cannot express to you the pain his death has caused to everyone in his family as well as his friends. I, too, worked at a suicide hotline many years ago and remember a training film about the people left behind after someone committed suicide. It was very powerful, and now that I've experienced it myself, very true. People who kill themselves often believe people would be better off without them. This is NEVER true. You leave them in terrible, terrible pain. Whatever you have done already will be made much, much worse by your suicide.

You have to know that your feelings will change with time. You were hurting, you were drunk, you were tempted and you did something you now regret enough to consider suicide. If you were an immoral person, you wouldn't care. Obviously you are a moral person and this is why you are so hurt by your actions. But don't make it worse by suicide. There is absolutely NOTHING you could do that would be worse for your family than that. Believe me, I've been there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG - I went thru that training. There is nothing more painful in the world. TM - if you think an A will affect your son, you have NO IDEA what killing yourself would do. DO NOT MAKE TWO WRONGS! They never right anything. I am qualified to at least talk to you, but I suggest you talk to SH - he will understand. And yes - quit the drinking - don't get anymore - you said there was none left in the house ...GOOD! COntact SH, contact someone - your pastor, email me, and be prepared for a lot of hard work. But it's work that YOU CAN DO - you KNOW IT - if you've helped anyone here before, you know EXACTLY what I mean.

We are here for you. God can and will forgive, and if you need it, you have mine, although I doubt you've ever wronged me. THIS IS THE RIGHT PLACE TO BE, and you know it.

And empty that damned gun. Put the ammo somewhere in some place that is hard to get to. Make it tough to ge to, and instead, get on here and talk to us, or call someone.

David

tireman,

I wasn't going to post to this thread after some of the other posts I saw. I have to say some of them really ticked me off.

I cannot sit here and honestly say that I know what you are going through.....but I can imagine.

It seems to me that these days some people think that the BS is immune to doing anything wrong.....that IS what Plan A is about isn't it? As the BS we are expected to compose ourselves in a certain manner.......like bieng ABOVE doing something like cheating. Well....we aren't. I know alot of people would like to think that we are......but it does and can happen to anyone. Anyone is capable of doing it.....and in my opinion....the BS is the most capable person of doing it.

I wish I could figure out who you were....maybe I would understand a little better about your situation. It wouldn't change the way I think or feel about YOUR situation. Just because you've helped alot of people here wouldn't make a difference. One of the things I've learned while bieng here for the last 4 years is that it's always easy to help others.....but damned hard to help ourselves.

You made a mistake. It can't be taken back. So moving forward is the only direction to go. I'm not here to judge you....I have no right to do that. I'm here to offer my support to you....which I think you need more than anything right now.

You said this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't dirnk. Thst tha problem. She brought this stiff over last night to talk aout my son. We got druink ans I told her howlonmly it is with WW gone andu not talkign to her planB. SHe hugged me and thren I threw away my world. I know I need hlep - ands I donm;t want to go, but I domt see what tod o. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm thinking that she knew exactly what she was doing when she came over. I'm also thinking she knew exactly what would happen. Why else would she bring that stuff over for someone who doesn't normally drink?

As for this being incestuous. Nope.....not even close. It would only be incest if it were with someone that was so closely related to you that you couldn't legally marry.

I don't know what else to say other than......please take people up on their offer of support. You need it.

Please take care.

tireman,

I wasn't going to post to this thread after some of the other posts I saw. I have to say some of them really ticked me off.

I cannot sit here and honestly say that I know what you are going through.....but I can imagine.

It seems to me that these days some people think that the BS is immune to doing anything wrong.....that IS what Plan A is about isn't it? As the BS we are expected to compose ourselves in a certain manner.......like bieng ABOVE doing something like cheating. Well....we aren't. I know alot of people would like to think that we are......but it does and can happen to anyone. Anyone is capable of doing it.....and in my opinion....the BS is the most capable person of doing it.

I wish I could figure out who you were....maybe I would understand a little better about your situation. It wouldn't change the way I think or feel about YOUR situation. Just because you've helped alot of people here wouldn't make a difference. One of the things I've learned while bieng here for the last 4 years is that it's always easy to help others.....but damned hard to help ourselves.

You made a mistake. It can't be taken back. So moving forward is the only direction to go. I'm not here to judge you....I have no right to do that. I'm here to offer my support to you....which I think you need more than anything right now.

You said this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't dirnk. Thst tha problem. She brought this stiff over last night to talk aout my son. We got druink ans I told her howlonmly it is with WW gone andu not talkign to her planB. SHe hugged me and thren I threw away my world. I know I need hlep - ands I donm;t want to go, but I domt see what tod o. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm thinking that she knew exactly what she was doing when she came over. I'm also thinking she knew exactly what would happen. Why else would she bring that stuff over for someone who doesn't normally drink?

As for this being incestuous. Nope.....not even close. It would only be incest if it were with someone that was so closely related to you that you couldn't legally marry.

I don't know what else to say other than......please take people up on their offer of support. You need it.

Please take care.

Well Said Miss Priss! TM, we can help you get thru this awful pain you are feeling! What Miss Priss said is exactly true...shoot, I was about to step over the line a few times...WE as the BS's are more vulnerable than many think...it is soooo easy..you did it, now it is time to repent...take a few days, think, and stay here for help! many people will get you thru this the right way!

I remember my first few posts here. I waited impatiently for replies, thinking this was my lifeline - silly me. My situation was bad, to me. And I can only imagine that tireman's sitch is bad, really bad to him! And he is crying out for help, which we should try to give. This is definitely one of those times, IMHO, that if you can't say something at least with compassion, if not exactly nice, then..please don't say anything at all!

Tireman, I almost slipped and committed infidelity. Both before and after my H, supposedly (but not admittedly) committed his. And I had always believed that I would be "above" that. HA... None of us really are.

I also have been treated for depression, way in the past and all too recently. PLEASE get some help. I believe that good counselors are hard to find, but they ARE out there!! Depression , such as brought on by something like this, can be very difficult (understatement) to get through and almost downright impossible by yourself. I recall many years ago, telling my psychologist that I knew, intellectually, that things would be better someday,but I felt like I COULD NOT get through life until that day! That is where ADs really help. I tried to kill myself years ago..NOT the answer. My sister found me and was devastated by my actions. I can only imagine how it would have effected her if I would have died. Now I have children, and their lives would be forever tainted by that, no matter what I had done before! People can get over alot of things, like infidelity (this WAS NOT incest), but never wholly get over loss of a loved one esp. by suicide!

Please get help and let us know that you are okay. I have been so worried about you. You do not deserve this pain. A series of events brought all of this on, nothing happens in a vacuum. You can possibly turn this around and use this to help you better understand. I know that right now, this sounds very farfetched, but it is ultimately up to you..Take it one step at a time.

Many compassionate hugs without condoning,
JL

I remember my first few posts here. I waited impatiently for replies, thinking this was my lifeline - silly me. My situation was bad, to me. And I can only imagine that tireman's sitch is bad, really bad to him! And he is crying out for help, which we should try to give. This is definitely one of those times, IMHO, that if you can't say something at least with compassion, if not exactly nice, then..please don't say anything at all!

Tireman, I almost slipped and committed infidelity. Both before and after my H, supposedly (but not admittedly) committed his. And I had always believed that I would be "above" that. HA... None of us really are.

I also have been treated for depression, way in the past and all too recently. PLEASE get some help. I believe that good counselors are hard to find, but they ARE out there!! Depression , such as brought on by something like this, can be very difficult (understatement) to get through and almost downright impossible by yourself. I recall many years ago, telling my psychologist that I knew, intellectually, that things would be better someday,but I felt like I COULD NOT get through life until that day! That is where ADs really help. I tried to kill myself years ago..NOT the answer. My sister found me and was devastated by my actions. I can only imagine how it would have effected her if I would have died. Now I have children, and their lives would be forever tainted by that, no matter what I had done before! People can get over alot of things, like infidelity (this WAS NOT incest), but never wholly get over loss of a loved one esp. by suicide!

Please get help and let us know that you are okay. I have been so worried about you. You do not deserve this pain. A series of events brought all of this on, nothing happens in a vacuum. You can possibly turn this around and use this to help you better understand. I know that right now, this sounds very farfetched, but it is ultimately up to you..Take it one step at a time.

Many compassionate hugs without condoning,
JL

I remember my first few posts here. I waited impatiently for replies, thinking this was my lifeline - silly me. My situation was bad, to me. And I can only imagine that tireman's sitch is bad, really bad to him! And he is crying out for help, which we should try to give. This is definitely one of those times, IMHO, that if you can't say something at least with compassion, if not exactly nice, then..please don't say anything at all!

Tireman, I almost slipped and committed infidelity. Both before and after my H, supposedly (but not admittedly) committed his. And I had always believed that I would be "above" that. HA... None of us really are.

I also have been treated for depression, way in the past and all too recently. PLEASE get some help. I believe that good counselors are hard to find, but they ARE out there!! Depression , such as brought on by something like this, can be very difficult (understatement) to get through and almost downright impossible by yourself. I recall many years ago, telling my psychologist that I knew, intellectually, that things would be better someday,but I felt like I COULD NOT get through life until that day! That is where ADs really help. I tried to kill myself years ago..NOT the answer. My sister found me and was devastated by my actions. I can only imagine how it would have effected her if I would have died. Now I have children, and their lives would be forever tainted by that, no matter what I had done before! People can get over alot of things, like infidelity (this WAS NOT incest), but never wholly get over loss of a loved one esp. by suicide!

Please get help and let us know that you are okay. I have been so worried about you. You do not deserve this pain. A series of events brought all of this on, nothing happens in a vacuum. You can possibly turn this around and use this to help you better understand. I know that right now, this sounds very farfetched, but it is ultimately up to you..Take it one step at a time.

Many compassionate hugs without condoning,
JL