Ugh. Things just took a big turn for the worse.

Yesterday I get a call from WW and she says "I hope its ok but the kids met the OM and OMDS on the weekend?" I didn't even know he was still in the picture let alone that she wanted to introduce our kids to him!

I almost blew my friggin' lid but kept my cool. She said "I'm surprised they didn't say anything to you." Well sure enough last night DD10 comes to me in tears and says "Mommy was hanging around a guy all weekend and it made me real uncomfortable".

So I sat her down and both DD11 and told them to tell me if they were put in uncomfortable situations and I would do my best to try to prevent it from happening.

I also exposed the A to them both. I'm not sure I did this right but unfortunately because of the way WW did this, I did not have much time to gather my thoughts or consult a professional. I told them "You guys understand what marriage is right?" They both nodded. Then I said "Well what Mommy was doing with this guy was also happening during our marriage and that is one of the main reasons while I don't want to be married to her anymore".

I have no idea whether this was the right thing to say. What do you think? I'm really worried that it might be a little too much straightforward and hurt their relationship with their mother...

DD11 didn't really want to talk about it. Should I just let them chill for a bit and then reapproach the subject? If I do what should I say next time?

Arggg I hate this.... why did she have to do this to me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Oh Miker,
I am so sorry you have to go through this!
I am no professional, but I think your kids needed to know at this point. They needed you to tell them what is up, and it sounds like you did so without telling them too much. I often wonder if I should tell my oldest daughter, she's 9, b/c she sees me so sad, and to be honest I have not been the best mom in the last month. She also tells me she feels like I hate her. I want to yell out and say, I am staying here with your father as my heart breaks for YOU sweetie, how can you say I hate you!
Sorry, I don't mean to talk about me.
Again, I am not an expert, but you seemed to do good from my perspective! Keep strong and keep loving those children of yours. They need a good parent, especially when the other one is thinking straight!
True

Yuk.

Hi Miker,

I am so sorry for you and your kids.This issue was a HUGE matter for me all along and I can really understand how hurt you must be.She abslutely had NO right to drag your kids into the middle of her sordid treachery.But as we all know,WS's only think of themselves and almost never put their kids first,let alone us(BS's).It makes me so mad.

If I were you,I would talk to your kids again and talk about choices This is what I did with my 2 kids when I told them that "Daddy has a girlfriend and it's wrong when you are married",etc.I said to them that daddy made some very inappropriate and painful choices that hurt his family.I refrained from telling them that daddy is a bad person because kids identify "half" of their being with each parent.

I was cautious that they knew that although what daddy did was bad/wrong,he was not a bad person(even though I felt like he was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).Now,I had done a lot of reading and discussion with my counselor on how to approach this subject with them and some here know that I agonized over it for a long time because I just felt that they shouldn't know about this horrible situation.But,there came a time when I had to tell them a little about WHY I was divorcing their father.I did not go into gory details and I made sure they could talk to me at anytime and I periodically check in with them to see how they are feeling.As of now,they have yet to see,hear or talk about this homewrecker and I have made it a priority not to.

My WH knew I would go ballistic if he pulled something like your WW did but I also had the "luxury" of the homewrecker living far enough away that a meeting was not really going to happen anyway.

I would make sure your WW knows how UNACCEPTABLE this was,that she hurt and confused your children and that she should not under any circumstances be introducing the children to the OM again.You are still married and you do not condone this type of behavior and you WILL protect them in any way you need to.Make sure you get that warning shot across her bow so she doesn't try to pull this stunt again.

O

*Edited to add: Miker,are you just about D'd yet? I didn't realize.It's a personal decision but in my case,I truly don't feel that the homewrecker should EVER be around my children.My kids do need to be with their father,but they definitely do NOT need to be around the person who helped break up their parent's marriage and their family.What I am going to do is empower my kids to tell their father that they are not comfortable around this woman and that they do not want to know her(they really don't).An OP is not fit to be around our children,ever IMO and you have to decide whether or not you want to give your kids this choice,to say no,to being a part of the sick turnaround of events in their lives.I truly feel that kids should never be around people like that.It's harmful and unnecessary..

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by truetoself:
<strong> Oh Miker,
I am so sorry you have to go through this!
I am no professional, but I think your kids needed to know at this point. They needed you to tell them what is up, and it sounds like you did so without telling them too much. I often wonder if I should tell my oldest daughter, she's 9, b/c she sees me so sad, and to be honest I have not been the best mom in the last month. She also tells me she feels like I hate her. I want to yell out and say, I am staying here with your father as my heart breaks for YOU sweetie, how can you say I hate you!
Sorry, I don't mean to talk about me.
Again, I am not an expert, but you seemed to do good from my perspective! Keep strong and keep loving those children of yours. They need a good parent, especially when the other one is thinking straight!
True </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True, Miker -

I told all of my kids several days ago. I did it very carefully, aked them if they could define marriage - each in their own words. After they all did that, I asked them if they could define adultery - again in their own words - they could, even my DD9 could (they go to a private school, so get Christian training). I then told tham that their mom and I love then very much, but that mom had made a horrible mistake and was comiting adultery. I reminded then again that she loves them and always will, but that it was going to take some time to fix things. I told tham that I love her and want to keep our marriage together, and that I had some hard work ahead. And every day I remind them that both mom and I love them very much.

Another thing - when my A was discovered, 3 years ago, I admitted it to my kids - even though they were younger, and asked them to forgive me. I believe that it is necessary for them to understand as much of the process - especially the healing process, as possible. I'm working with my DS17 on my LBs - if he catches me using one around him, I ask him to call me on it (DJs are really hard to avoid with a 17 year ole - hee hee).

Maybe that helps a little?

David

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

I should also probably note we had a go around about this 3 months ago where she wanted to do this and I fought tooth and nail and she finally backed down. I guess this time she thought she thought she'd just do it and when I was out of town without even consulting me. GRRR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Divorce will still be another 6 months or so until its in the books but legal paperwork will hopefully be finalized very shortly.

True to Self,

Thanks for the kind words and support. Its really tough and I feel a lot of pressure to make the right choices and say the right things since I seem to be the only one who seems to have the kids interests at heart. When other support me in what I've done then it makes me feel better that I've done the right thing.


OG,

Yes I feel the same way as you and would like to also empower my children to make their own decisions regarding WW and OM. I personally find their relationship absolutely disgusting but I struggle with not letting that influence my children and letting them make their own decisions. I think that is important. My children are religious and I feel I am now solely responsible for teaching the morality so I do feel its my obligation to tell them that certain actions are wrong.

David,

Sounds like you handled it really well. I may use some of what you said in my next go around. I wish I had some more warning so I could collect my thoughts a bit more, but I think I did ok considering the cirumstances.

Miker

Oh that would make me fuming too!! My ex waited to introduce the girls to his ow (now his w) until the girls were emotionally ready. Which was over a year after we seperated. It was still hard on them.

I'm so sorry for your children!! Are they in any counseling?

My oldest had a hard time with it, still does. She also had lots of anger towards her dad (but for other reasons beside abandoning them)

Oh that would make me fuming too!! My ex waited to introduce the girls to his ow (now his w) until the girls were emotionally ready. Which was over a year after we seperated. It was still hard on them.

I'm so sorry for your children!! Are they in any counseling?

My oldest had a hard time with it, still does. She also had lots of anger towards her dad (but for other reasons beside abandoning them)

Miker, I think you handled it perfectly. Shame on your wife for inviting her children into her sleazy, sordid lifestyle. At least you told them the truth about it, which is what matters. Kids become very morally confused when adults sit there in silence in the face of flagrant wrongdoing. I know it screwed me up terribly as a little girl and made me seriously doubt my instincts about right and wrong.

That being said, I would continue to do everything in your power to keep them away from your W's affair. She is suffering from temporary insanity and can't be counted on to protect them right now. Many WS' try to drag the children into their sleazy affairs in an attempt to "normalize" them. Please don't let her use your kids to that end.

You did real good, Miker, just keep the course because your instincts are right on.

Miker,

I am SOOOO sorry for what you are going through. I had the same thing happen, only worse. you can read my story from the link below.

The key is to be honest with your kids, make sure you let them know you love them, and that you will always be there for them.

The kids are not stupid, they see what she is doing, what she doesn't realize (my WW doesn't either) is that she is teaching them that people are disposable, and can easily be replaced. This is very damaging to them, they will start to worry if they are going to be replaced.

Be there for your kids now. stay as involved in their lives as possible, and then a little more. you will see things quicker that way, and you will be able to help them, watch the grades, I even made sure the kids guidance counselor knew to be on the look out for negative effects at school.

If I can be of assistance, just holler, and remember We are here 4 you.

Hosea

Hi Miker,

WW has actually taken my son skiing and stayed at OM's house with him on her way through his town. I too thought I needed to teach my children "right from wrong" by telling them what's right and what is definitely wrong. I decided to speak to a psychologist first.

He said that my perception will be contradicted by WW's perception. She will rationalize her behavior and my children will not be sophisticated enough to make a judgment. They will simply be torn as WW and I are there world right now and the conflict of perceptions will create a lot of angst for them. His suggestion is simply to love them as best as I can and be a great dad.

Having said that, I will not lie for her. I also will not shy away from a D and have come to terms with that as the nearly inevitable conclusion of this journey. I will tell my son why I'm doing it in an objective manner as possible. If he asks my opinion...I will give it phrased in the context of what I would and wouldn't do within a marriage. I can only hope that they will emulate my behavior as opposed to their mother's.

I think your approach was a well measured one given the situation. Your children and mine will realize one day who kept their best interests at heart.

I don't agree with Binder's psychologist. There are perceptions but there's also right and wrong. Perceptions are inabsolutes. I may perceive that a tourquoise-y color is more green. You may perceive it as being more blue. It's something open to interpretation.

Marriage is an absolute. Cheating within a marriage is an absolute wrong. It's not really subject to interpretation unless you are a WS in a complete fog. What kind of psychologist give advice that lets the WS get away with that stuff? Is it "Mommy says it's okay to steal, so go ahead and steal,", next? How is your kid suppose to have any sense of right and wrong. Melodylane hit it on the head when she said this avoidance of a moral dilemia was very harmful to her as a child. Legally and morally, infidelity is wrong. How can that be open to interpretation?

Tell kids the truth. They know something is wrong. Put their feelings into words. Load it with love. Be truthful. Don't say mean things about the other parent. Say that breaking your marriage vows is wrong, that starting a new relationship without ending an old one is wrong. Listen to the little things they say. Miker, your way was just fine.

IMO, I agree with Binder's psycologist...children, and we're talking children, need to constantly feel their parents are basically goodwilled. Meaning, no one, WS nor BS should ever speak harshly about the other to their children. The old saying, "if you can't say something nice!"...move on.

I had a girlfriend years ago going through a terrible divorce. She had full custody of her son. She constantly told her son, that he was a "drunk", "deadbeat" and "worthless". As time past, her son grew up and people began saying to this young boy, "Wow, you look just like your DAD!" He then had trouble in school, became even more depressed and attempted suicide at the young age of 11! Because he thought by looking like Dad he was "like" Dad. And Dad equated all the bad things in his Mother's life.

Please, try to keep the issues of M between husband and wife. Our children are still "their" children too. We can't control what they say, but we can control what we say. Shouldn't we always "think" before "we" speak.

Perception should remain as healthy and positive as possible.

Need to clarify...My girlfriend told her son his Dad was a drunk, deadbeat and worthless...

Miker, your kids live with you, you are religious and raise them accordingly, I guess you are going for sole custody (?)... you might consult your lwayer how you can keep your kids away from OM...

I fully understand how it might hurt you... but it's inevitable that one day she'll bring your kids to her home and she might live with someone else... you must accept that part, cannot do anything against (so far your kids are not abused in that home)...

I do hope if that day comes, it won't hurt you so much.

The more we face reality and consequences of a D, the more we can cope with all that D brings itself, and this one is just a part...

Take care, your kids will always have bad influences from outside of your home, and it's your good parenting that they will accept those values they learnt from you!

Miker, one of the most devastating and morally confusing things that happened to me as a child was my mother's failure to point out right from wrong. I instinctively KNEW that something was very wrong when my father took me to hotel rooms to meet his girlfriends.

But everyone acted like everything was ok, so I began to have serious doubts about my mind. I realized that I must be a very stupid girl to see and feel things about right versus wrong that others apparently did not see.

I cannot begin to tell you how devastating it was to me as a child to have reality STOLEN from me. For God's sake don't do that to your children.

Children sense right from wrong and when you don't validate what they can plainly see, they become morally confused.

It is YOUR JOB as a parent to teach them right from wrong.[and I know you don't need to be reminded of that] They do NOT have the judgement to make such discernments all on thier own, even though they can sense it. They desperately need your guidance and validation to put it all into place. They need to be protected from the immoral influence that your W presents or they will grow up not knowing right from wrong.

Please tell them that adultery is always wrong and your W is very confused right now. But they should still love their mother. A kid can understand that.

Please don't doom them to years of counseling through some misguided wacko notion about moral neutrality.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Some really good wisdom from everyone. Thanks so much.

Well I was expecting another tough emotional evening with the kids tonight but very surprisingly we all seem to be like some huge weight has been lifted from our shoulders. Very happy and cheerful and upbeat.

I know it definitely has been a weight lifted from my shoulders because I knew I would eventually have to tell my kids about the A. The recent events sort of forced that to happen.

The stranger thing, in my perception, is that the kids seem as though a weight has been lifted with them as well. I wasn't expecting this reaction. Maybe they have been sitting here wondering, no matter how many times I told them not, that somehow this was their fault. I admit "Adult problems" wasn't a very good answer and probably not sufficent for them but I can't remember how many times I told them "You know this isn't your fault don't you".

Regardless whether the reality was painful and brutal maybe it is a relief to them to have something to grasp that actually makes sense? Not sure. I can't get into their little minds and figure out what exactly they are thinking but I sure know they aren't to be underestimated. They are incredibly strong. Their strength continues to surprise me.

Right now I feel that there is nothing she can do that can destroy us... What a great feeling. I hope it sticks around for a while. The battle is just beginning. This is one battle I'm prepared to fight hard for.

Miker

*Edited to Add* Oh and I've stopped talking to WW completely given the recent events. I am so furious with her I can't even speak to her. Screw co-parenting... She doesn't deserve to be a parent right now...

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Miker ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Miker:
Right now I feel that there is nothing she can do that can destroy us... What a great feeling. I hope it sticks around for a while. The battle is just beginning. This is one battle I'm prepared to fight hard for.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what you mean - That's exact feeling I have regarding my son and me (vs. his dad). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
It'll stick, don't worry; the stronger you are the longer that feeling will last, moreover, the bigger your influence on your kids will be.
And you are strong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ok I finally spoke to WW about the kids reaction to her little weekend outing. Wholly fog!

Her response "Are you sure they were talking about the OM? There were lots of other people there."

I'm like "Yes I sure they are talking about him. I'm not sure what specifically they saw but they saw something that made them uncomfortable. They aren't stupid."

I told her I think she needs to talk to them because this is her problem not mine to deal with. So she's talking with the kids on Monday.

I've talked to the kids and told them to be honest and openly discuss how they feel with her regarding this. Is there anything else I should do to prep. them?

I just hope she doesn't try to convince them that what they are feeling is wrong and that what she is doing is right.

Miker

Hi Miker,

My feeling is that maybe you should have suggested that YOU be there too to discuss this.The reason is that your WW will likely put her spin on this matter and you are not there to counter.The last thing you want is your kids getting mixed signals/messages,blatant lies or expectations put on them without your knowledge or input.It actually IS your problem to deal with too because your children need you to be the responsible advocate here who prevents them from being bamboozled with your WW's fog tactics.Now you'll have to resort to prying the memories of your children to see what she said and they will undoubtedly be hurt and confused.

If you haven't let this happen yet,I would suggest that you request to talk to them together.Don't leave it up to your self serving,unfaithful WW to explain this away.That is what I would do anyway.

O

oh boy, I absolutely agree with OG. Your kids don't need to hear a bunch of putrid rationalizations. They need to hear the TRUTH. They sense that this is wrong, they need a SANE adult to validate their feelings and guide them through this. You are the only adult that is qualified to do this!

Please don't let her lay a bunch of crap on them that will cause them self doubt and confusion. Guide them and lead them with a TRUE, rational perspective before they ever talk to your W.