I've been away for a week or so. Missed bouncing my thoughts off the MB board and getting some of thier experienced wisdom.

Anyway I have three posts for today ... I already wrote them, just have to cut and paste to get some input.

Where I am now ... Met Plan B conditions

Topic of this one is "what the heck is STBX saying"

We've been talking, and spending some time together ... most times for me it is like going to the dentist. Anyway want to bounce some of her attitude off MB.

*the following are paraphrased*

STBX: "How did you find out about the "A"? How did you know what we were doing?"

TJ's Translation: "How did you know our phone conversations, where we met, what we did, when we did it so that I can hide it all better in the future."

.
STBX: "I just want to forget everthing that happened. I don't even think about my Lover (see next question). We need to just move on."

TJ's Translation: "Forget that I ran a wrecking ball through your life. Just trust me that it is over. I just want to forget it, doesn't that make everything all better?"

.
STBX: "How much $$ did you spend on PI and what did he find out about Lover?"

TJ's Translation: "I still care about my lover and want to know whatever you found out about him that I may not already know."
This question from her was particularly painful to me


I have more that I'll add...

What is your translation?

I think I'm wasting my time.

.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Tom:

I don't think your wasting your time... ...so long as you don't stake 2 much of your fu2re on what she's asking, thinking, doing at this point.

She clearly doesn't want 2 lose you, or the easy thing 2 do would be 2 just let it all go. But she doesn't know how 2 get in2 recovery. She may not want 2 let go of her "right" 2 having secret 2nd relationships, either. But she will have 2 learn how 2 if she wants you back.

As for your translations. Why try 2 translate, really? Instead, maybe you should try 2 gauge where she's "at" based on how she asks these questions and what she says she wants 2 do. Her desire 2 forget, for example, is quite normal, however unhealthy it may be.

Any chance she'd be receptive 2 coming here herself? Or agreeing to MC with you?

-ol' 2long

Tom, I read a post on here a while back that said if your WS would put just 10% of the effort she put into her affair into building the marriage the results would be great. I don't know if that is true. I do know that my WW put uncounted effort into her affair. Hours on the phone, hours planning secret meetings, and hours upon hours deceiving me.

I get the feeling you don think she is putting forth the same effort. She wants you to forget it, and wants your M to be better. Do you feel she putting in the effort to do that? Wanting and doing are different things.

Is she doing what it takes to get what she wants? Are you?

2long makes some good points. I don't have his history. Perhaps what you have with your W is as good as you can expect. I hope not.

TJ,

This is dangerous..... WS is on a fact finding mission. She actually is asking you to disclose your sources and methods.

Refrain from giving her info. Make comments more on the line of reverse babble. You have the opportunity to make yourself slick so that nothing sticks to you. You did what you did to protect you and your family. Don't let her turn the tables and use it against you.

Here's 2 red flags:

1. Her term Lover shows OM is still a piece of endearment to her. The rest of what she says (doesn't think of him) is discounted.

2. She still has feelings for OM, should discount all her other questions.

Remember WS' are clever at this stuff, after all you probably are a hot topic in their A. Did you know you were that popular? Use this info wisely. You can also screw with their need to scheme against you if you reverse babble with finesse. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L.

Tom, for what it is worth, I completely agree with Orchid.

The only thing missing here is the nose ring and leash for the 'bull' being led about....

Gimble

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

Hi Tom!

I totally agree with Orchid on this one. Especially because she has been very hostile with you in the past. What were your answers to her questions?

Chack, I simply told her what I felt. That she was trying to find better ways to decieve me. She claims she was just "curious". I didn't tell her much about the OM.

Other things...

This was humiliating for me but I guess necessary. I told her that for any real recovery I was going to have to be able to fill what ever needs that OM had done. I also said that I needed for her to share with me the same things she shared with him. Many of the things she had shared with with him she denied me.

She said that I'm not the OM.

My translation - I don't measure up to him. I shouldn't expect those things because I'm not as "good as him".


Speaking of good. She says that the OM gave her strength and support. She says he was a "good man."

I don't know what support she got from him. Unless she is speaking of the strength and support to wreck our lives and our families lives. He gave her the strength to keep lieing and cheating and spending money and the strength to selfishly put her wants and desires ahead of everything else. As far as being a good man. I have no idea what that is. He was himself, selfish and self-serving. He was an internet perv who tossed-off on webcam for women and tried to get thier phone #'s. I guess that is what a good man is. I certainly don't measure up in that respect. I just worked three jobs paid all the bills and was treated like I shouldn't even expect a warm meal in the evening.
But he is a good man. I hear those words everytime I see her.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

.

I was trying to do what Harley says in SAA. Forcing my self to participate expecting some feelings to return. Nothing has returned ... in fact gotten worse for me. I do appreciate some of her effort, however still all in the wrong directions. Seems she wants it back the old way ... I can't do that anymore - EVER. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Tom:

"Speaking of good. She says that the OM gave her strength and support. She says he was a "good man."'

In light of recent developments with a certain MBer I really respect, I'm going 2 not deny myself a little DJ, and use the moniker 'Rat Meat' again in indicating my W's OM.

As for your quote above, my W has said similar crap about RM many times over the past year. My response? (Orchid, tell me if this fits within RB guidelines):

"I don't care if he's the spittin' image of Jesus on the Cross!"

RM MUST GO.

Not only that, he must become the 'phlegm bag spattered' (album title from the band "Controlled Bleeding") that I already know him 2 be from my W's perspective.

Part of my renewed anger in this area is that I don't think he's gone away, and it's been over 3 years since d-day. Part is that my W won't talk with me about the past (or the present or the fu2re much, for that matter). It's CA, of which I am guilty as sin of committing as well.

End of DJ. He's "the OM" again... ...for now.

-ol' 2long

We were away on a cruise for a week.

Just read that she met all of your requirements. I understand your apprehension. It still doesn't sound like she is willing to do everything she can to restore your marriage though, time will tell.

I think one of your requirements should be that she read SAA and HNHN and/or do a MB weekend with you so she can get on the same page.

I wish you would consider phone counseling with SH.

Otherwise, DRose used to mention that they used a good counselor in St. Pete. You may want to call him out and ask him. I may still have an email address for him. Actually, I think he may have mentioned the counselor's name in a post within the last year of so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was trying to do what Harley says in SAA. Forcing my self to participate expecting some feelings to return. Nothing has returned ... in fact gotten worse for me. I do appreciate some of her effort, however still all in the wrong directions. Seems she wants it back the old way ... I can't do that anymore - EVER.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't force yourself to participate - don't play that game. Either she complies or she doesn't - remember, she needs to own up to her affair, she needs to take responsiblity and she needs to prove herself if you two are ever going to recover.

Trix,
Glad your back. She told me she would read the books. In fact promised me. Well ... she hasn't. Claims no time. One month she spent over 7000 minutes, SEVENTHOUSAND, on the phone, but she doesn't have anytime now.

I wanted the phone counseling she says no. She wants someone she wants.

Chack, she says she wants to prove herself, but at every opportunity she does whatever she feels like doing at that particular moment. No security or safety in that for me.

Just yesterday she backed out on accounting for her time. Seems she is only interested when it is convenient for her, damn everyone and everything else.

.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

Tom:

When is the DV final?

-ol' 2long

OK. She says to me.

STBX: I'm sorry. I'm willing to do whatever it takes to fix our M.

I tell her what makes me uncomfortable ... she does it, over and over, even when I told her. She dismisses all of my feelings, she invalidates me.

I tell what will help me feel safe and move on ... she resists or refuses. Then lies.

.

Tom:

So, when is the DV final?

-Qfwfq (aka 2long)

I know what you are exactly going thru. I got the same thing from my WW. We were going thru MC at the time. She was doing whatever she wanted during that time...with the MC blessing. He told us.."its good she has these friends.."...he was so worthless in the long run. (which is another story all together...I could kick his a$$ if he was standing before me). But I got the same lines as other people got..."I'm going to do whatever I want"...."You are just trying to control me". What a bunch of fog & selfishness. Look beyond it all.

If I've learned one thing...Actions speak LOUDER than words ever do....regardless of what some incompetent MC says.