Those of you who had a EA/PA combined and are now over the A. Why do you think your BS should ever give you a second chance?

Please answer only from a stand point of your BS without consideration for children...since children where not a factor in your decision to start the A.

I am just curious what WW's think. My wife had a PA/EA and I have forgiven her...unfortunatly I am starting to question why I did forgive her.

Hey,

Mine was mostly and EA, but did become PA on two occassions, but it was the EA I wanted...not the PA.

I agree with you - children, marriage, concequences, all of those were never a factor when deciding to have my A. I showed what little respect I had for my family, for my husband, for myself, for our marriage.

I let myself become a person I barely recognized and thrived on what the affair did for me and gave me.

All of this was so wrong, and because I considered nothing, I do not expect my husband to forgive me.

He has though, and I am entirely grateful for it - as I love him, and I do realize and regret the decisions I made and the utter destruction I caused.

I have such a hard time forgiving myself because I don't feel i deserve it -I was a horrible person. I struggle with positive self talk in that area all the time.

So to answer your question, since I can't even forgive myself, why would I expect my H to forgive me.

Now wanting and expecting are two different things. I would like my spouse to forgive me, and trust me and work very hard to help me with this marriage...but I don't think that he SHOULD. I have given him no reason to stay or forgive me.

But i sure try hard now to give him those reasons to stay and forgive me, and I will continue too.

So - once again, I am rambling (I am good at that) but all in all, no I don't think my H should forgive me, nor do I expect him to, but I would still like him to, and i am very grateful that he has.

-ds

deeplysorry

Thanks for the honest reply.

The problem I am having and always had since I was younger is my habit of acting like a light switch. I can ether be on or off. Right now when I look at my wife I am off. Off with her scares a part of me because honestly I could walk out right this minute...but a part of me says wait and things will get better. it's times like this that make me question why I forgave her.

Deeply Sorry,

My WS has had 3 EA's and I just can't get her to stop. She totally denies them, then admits, then denies.

How long did yours last? How did you feel about your spouse during the A?

Why do you think your BS should ever give you a second chance?


Hemi I do not know of many WWs on this board. When my own Squid was a WW she wouldn;t give a short sh*t for my forgiveness.

When she became a FORMER WW like many of the wonderfully helpful girls on here ( like DS!) she could not think of a decent reason for me to give her a second chance. In fact her life is lived in fear that I may cancel that second chance at any moment, such is her lack of self worth.

Read this wonderful thread from SKM - a FORMER ww and see what FWWs go through in recovery.
SKMs FWW recovery phases thread

BTW a small 2x4, your question appeared disrespectful to me, and I am not a WW. No former WS I know of thinks their actions during an affair were OK or acceptable.

Hemi, I couldn't resist your question partly because of how you phrased it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Those of you who had a EA/PA combined and are now over the A. Why do you think your BS should ever give you a second chance?

Actually there are no *shoulds* to give your spouse a second chance except your own. It's your choice. Your desire (even as a betrayed spouse) to remain married and to work on constructing a new, healthy, loving marriage that pleases both of you *should* be the primary reason you give your spouse a second chance. Make sense?

What difference does it make what the (F)WS thinks if this is your goal and you at least have some level of cooperation from your spouse? I'm wondering if you are trying to draw out an answer that speaks of (F)WS "entitlement" of forgiveness but that really is something only your own wife can answer. Even if her answer is not to your liking, the answer will certainly change over time as recovery progresses. Just don't hang your hat too much on random hurtful statements because many are made in either in confusion or in direct response to LBing from the BS.

I do realize it is difficult to stay on task when you have doubts about it all working out but don't go down the slippery slope of trying to assign assumptions about other people's intent. If your wife has ended her affair and is in NC, you should be focusing on the actual HARD work of rebuilding your marriage. Giving into doubts that maybe you should have just bailed isn't going to help your recovery any. Give it your best shot, you'd be surprised how life can turn around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Do you think that if you had gotten a bunch of responses (not that you would have anyway) that stated entitlement to a second chance, that this would have affected the way you feel about your own wife, or that it would cause a step backwards in your recovery process? Do you see why it might not be a healthy or good question to ask? Am I misinterpreting you? KB

Great post KB. Saving in my personal file.

I was not implying that the WS is owed a second chance only why a WS thinks they should be given a second chance. What kind of argument can be made by a WS for a second chance at the M. It will always be up to the BS if they feel the argument or behavior warrants a second chance.

It's like...

Why should I be hired for this new job
Why should you vote for me as president
Why should you sell me your house

I have to say I am amazed at the over analyzed response to a simple unloaded question.

Hemidart,

I didn't/don't think that my H should give me a second chance. It is/was totally his decision if he does, just as its totally his decision to continue his relationship with me. BUT I am prepared to put a huge amount of effort into our R and into meeting his needs. Only he can decide if thats enough for him.

I am with him because I love him and want to build a good R with him. I hope that is the reason he is with me, but I can't know that, and its his business anyway.

Simple unloaded question ? I never saw a more loaded one IMO :

Those of you who had a EA/PA combined and are now over the A. Why do you think your BS should ever give you a second chance?

How can any of you WWs possibly think you have some right to a second chance when mine hurt ME so badly ?

Please answer only from a stand point of your BS without consideration for children...since children where not a factor in your decision to start the A.

Because you FWWs decided to have affairs with other men without care for BS or our kids, don't DARE say that our kids might be better off in a recovered marriage than in a righteous D-settlement bedsit with XBS as an excuse or reason for trying to rebuild after an affair.

I am just curious what WW's think. My wife had a PA/EA and I have forgiven her...unfortunatly I am starting to question why I did forgive her.

I forgave my FWW , but I got nothing back from her for it. I might just UNforgive her if it means so little to her.

Thats how it reads to me ! Could NOT be more loaded, and if me a FBS feels that way how is a FWS going to respond to that ?

I'm a FBS. I hurt too br'a but you gotta STUDY more about the dynamics of affairs. Its way more complicated than that.

If you want permission from somebody to feel like your FWW doesn't deserve to be given a second chance, I don't think you're gonna get it here.

The law says you can divorce your W for infidelity ( unless you have a no-fault state) and thats your right. You gotta CHOOSE for whatever reason to try to rebuild your M with your FWW in it. There isn't any strong validation for doing so other than divorce is horrible for everyone, and recovered marriage scan be better in some ways that the one broken by infidelity.

Its gets better Hemi honestly. {{{{hemi}}}}

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>

Oh Bob, you probably didn't mean that to be funny but it WAS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry Hemi, I'm laughing my head off. Maybe we're making too much out of your question but in the end what diference does the answer to it does it make? Are you expecting her to "convince" you to give her a second chance or is this a decision you feel you can make on your own?

If she was a former debate champ or a trial attorney and managed to convince you to give her a second chance, would you then later feel she'd manipulated you with her superior argument? Conversely, if you generally always "win" arguments would this mean to you that you could bail because she couldn't convince you? Do you see NOW why this is not a good question? KB

Well Said Bob,

I was glad I wasn't the only one who read it that way. I know that many of the BS's here must be bitter about the WS's but this is a PRO MARRIAGE site, and most of us here are trying to work on the marriages.

Sprint could have treated me this way - we discussed it a few times (note the word discuss) once I was out of the g, over my lack of concern for the children and family in choosing the A, and I am well aware, but as Bob said - there are so many complexities. At that time I was so in a fog that even my OWN well being wasn't something I was considering. All I wanted was what he said and did to make me feel good - that "high" or so to speak. After those discussions, Sprint has NEVER held or dangled it over my head - he knows how horrible I feel. I will not sit and be self righeous and tell him how and why he should forgive - not after what I have done to everyone I love.

I choose to stay here, with all my heart and soul, and am bettering who I am and rebulding my marriage, and I am GRATEFUL that my H sees the good in me, that he wants to help me, that he wants to love me. If he chose not to do this, I wouldn't begin to tell him that HE HAS to forgive me for it due to the reasons. I can't sell him - look what I did to him. You state it like a job - this isn't a job buddy - this is a relationship - a marriage.

If you want your marrige to work - then YOU need to choose whether you want to forgive her or not, you can't dangle things over her head and tell her to convince you. That's a great way to set up your marriage for more disaster.

And as for this habit of yours - switching on and off - maybe this is something that affected your marriage previous to her A, and is something YOU need to fix to help affair proof you marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long did yours last? How did you feel about your spouse during the A?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BHINWI - in response to you - Mine lasted quite short compared to many people here - but it feels like a lifetime due to the pieces left to pick up. It was 2.5 months EA, with it being PA over webcam and actual PA twice. (SF). I had a desire for it to be PA, and because OM was such a sexual person, it was something I wanted to give to him, as he was meeting my EN's and giving me that high. THe PA part wasn't something that I wanted to really do again, but probably would have for him if the relationship had continued.

For me - I loved my H still, but leading up to the A I had alot of resentment for him, and those negatives made me start to beleive that he didn't love me as I stopped seeing what he DID do for me. Then I started to think I didn't love him either, and that I married him for the wrong reasons and he was just like having a roomate.

Throughout the A, I would have moments of love and happiness for my H, and since I didn't know how to talk to him, I discussed it with the OM, who instead of encouraging me to talk to H, told me how he wished his wife was like me, and loved him like I love my H, and how he would treat me so well if he was my H. All the things that made me feel wanted. So my thoughts of my husband got pushed aside for my "fix"

Towards the end I wanted out - but I was so far in - I couldn't break it off. I also thought now that I crossed the line, I couldn't go back - that I was going to lose everything - so hiding it might be better.

I was so releived when my H caught me and helped me out. And when he told me I could stay and he loved me - all those negatives disappeared and all the positives came back - why I married him, why I loved him - it was never a mistake - my marriage - the affair was the mistake.

So here I am trying to make amends for my mistake now and focus on the best thing ever in my life, my marriage and my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> xxxxoooo Sprint.

-ds

EDITED - I just realized thanks to H pointing it out - I contradicted my previous post - while saying I didn't want the PA and here typing I desired it. I want to explain that I fantasized a PA with the OM, and even had one because I knew it was something I was giving him and I felt wanted, but after that I didn't want a PA with the OM - I knew it was the EA I wanted, and so I still talked sexually with the OM, but was thankful there was distance between us so I wouldn't have to have a PA again. If that makes sense. Anyhow - wanted to clarify.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: deeplysorry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was not implying that the WS is owed a second chance only why a WS thinks they should be given a second chance. What kind of argument can be made by a WS for a second chance at the M. It will always be up to the BS if they feel the argument or behavior warrants a second chance.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">None. There is NO basis for being forgiven. Face down in a ditch with OM, two shots in the back of the skull is what this would have "earned" a short 10 years ago. Happens daily in America. I kid you not.


But thank GOD for love and forgiveness. If he can forgive a peice of sh#t like me, then I'm sure a bit is available for my wife who lost her way.


I don't hate my wife for what she did. She had such a low self-concept that she allowed herself to be degraded by some loser she would never have given a FAKE phone number too in her single days.

Rather, I choose to love her. I'd like to see her honor and self-respect restored. It hurts ME to see that she thought she was so alone and un-lovable that she would consider something so vile just to feel human again (and don't be so silly as to assume she didn't think it was a real find at the time).

As for her owning my love and a rightful place in the marriage, she NEVER lost that.

Outside of the initial pain of betrayal, i wonder how much love is there to start with, if you cannot forgive the person you say you love. Love ISNT about taking. Its about GIVING. Sounds to me like you are getting the chance of a lifetime to PROVE you are a better partner than your spouse. Believe me. Make this M work, and she'll NEVER forget.

She's the one with the problem (and it is a real moral and maybe even mental problem) and you won't stick around to help her? That, my misguided friend, is NOT love. That's possession. You can't keep her and punish her. Recipe for suicide that is...

Dont make the mistake of dangling salvation like a carrot. Its cruel, and you'll wind up harvesting emotional pain for that kind of behavior.

Forgive and forget. Its up to her what she does with it. Don't get resentful just because she is caught so deeply in this sick lifestyle.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: sprint ]</small>

I don't really mean to steal your words deeplysorry but they are so well put and exactly what I feel. I don't need to give you my answer because deeplysorry did it.

My H has not forgiven me and we have not reconciled. He did give me a chance to end the affair and I couldn't, it's a high like she said, the way he made me feel etc., nothing else was important in this world, nothing.

Do I regret it: ABSOLUTELY
Would I ever do it again: NEVER
Can I forgive myself: MOST LIKELY NOT
Am I remorseful: POSITIVELY
Am I ashamed: SO MUCH THAT I CAN'T BEGIN TO FIND WORDS TO DESCRIBE IT

Even though we are in the beginning stages of a divorce I so desperately want to save our marriage. I am almost due to deliver the child I am carrying and do not know wether it is his or the xOM's, so my situation is a little different.

Do I think he should forgive me: NO
Do I think he could forgive me: YES
Do I think he will forgive me: POSSIBLE we work, I work towrds that everyday....

Would I change anything that has ever happened to me or that I have done in regards to the affair: NO, it makes me who I am, it does not define me but it strengthens me, it and the end of it gave me insight to who I was and helped me deal with issues I had already had in my life, it forced me to stay for once and not runaway, it has given me a beautiful child that has ended the affair and strengthened a strained relationship I had with my H.

They are many people that hate me in my life and I have lost many of them, that is what I regret the most.

Mine was an EA turned PA for almost 2 years, the love stuff lasted from February to October but we became really friend with benefits from December of 03 to August of 04.

{{SG}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by deeplysorry:
<strong> Hey,

Mine was mostly and EA, but did become PA on two occassions, but it was the EA I wanted...not the PA.

I agree with you - children, marriage, concequences, all of those were never a factor when deciding to have my A. I showed what little respect I had for my family, for my husband, for myself, for our marriage.

I let myself become a person I barely recognized and thrived on what the affair did for me and gave me.

All of this was so wrong, and because I considered nothing, I do not expect my husband to forgive me.

He has though, and I am entirely grateful for it - as I love him, and I do realize and regret the decisions I made and the utter destruction I caused.

I have such a hard time forgiving myself because I don't feel i deserve it -I was a horrible person. I struggle with positive self talk in that area all the time.

So to answer your question, since I can't even forgive myself, why would I expect my H to forgive me.

Now wanting and expecting are two different things. I would like my spouse to forgive me, and trust me and work very hard to help me with this marriage...but I don't think that he SHOULD. I have given him no reason to stay or forgive me.

But i sure try hard now to give him those reasons to stay and forgive me, and I will continue too.

So - once again, I am rambling (I am good at that) but all in all, no I don't think my H should forgive me, nor do I expect him to, but I would still like him to, and i am very grateful that he has.

-ds </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hemidart, I'm a FWW who wasn’t involved in a combined EA/PA, but I feel the need to say the following:

I don’t think any repentant and remorseful FWS ever thinks or feel they should be given a second change… FWS's struggle so much with feelings of guilt, shame etc. during early recovery, that they don’t feel they deserve another chance and often they don’t feel worthy of their BS’s love (understandably so)… However, the loving action of the BS to forgive the FWS and give them another chance, is a really a action of grace. I think you can compare it with the grace and unconditional love of God - when we as sinners pray to God and seek his forgiveness for our sins, we accept His forgiveness as grace and a priceless gift from Him. I think very often we as sinful human beings don’t feel we deserve God’s love and forgiveness and don't feel we should receive a second chance, but we accept God’s grace and forgiveness as a wonderful gift…whether we feel or think we deserve it or not.

Suzet

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 07:21 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Just read this thread. Good comment bObpure. I chose to forgive my FWH. Prior to D-Day, I would bet my life that if I was ever put in the position of a BS, I would have ended the M immediately. What a jolt. My FWH felt pain before his A and I was indifferent to his pain (BIG MISTAKE). He looked elsewhere out of a need to feel someone cared. He knows he made a mistake, knows the pain he caused, and lives every day (especially my "trigger" days) in fear that I will take back the second chance we have in recovery.

My questions was taken so out of context it's not even funny. I especially liked this quote, which btw just shows how far off some are on the questions meaning.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you want permission from somebody to feel like your FWW doesn't deserve to be given a second chance, I don't think you're gonna get it here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do appeciate those who answered honestly without judging the hidden meaning of my question.

Hemi, most posters agree with me that your questions were loaded.

Anyway you got replies from some generous FWS. I hope it serves your purpose.

All blessings.

Only the author really knows the meaning of what they write. All other opinions are just that...opinions.

But thanks for your reply anyways......

Hi, I am a FWW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The reason I feel I should be given a second chance is the same reason ANYONE who EVER did ANYTHING wrong should be given one. I don't "deserve" a second chance, but what kind of world would this be if there were no second chances? And try to think about how someday YOU might be the one who needs the second chance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That is really the answer right there....I deserve one because you do too.

NOW