I've also posted this in the Emotional Support Forum, then decided to post here also.

Is there really a possibility that a wayward spouse can really change? I have a really hard time believing it. I have always had the belief that "once a cheater, always a cheater." Could it really just be a one-time mistake?

He says there was no real emotional connection, it was only a few meetings (for some reason I believe him, due to his behavior over just a period of a few short days, completely different man.) He said they never actually had sex, but they made out heavily (touching, groping, kissing, etc...). I have a really hard time believing that, especially considering the type of person with whom he cheated. Not the highest caliber of woman. That makes me feel much worse.

My counselor has told me to look into my H's past actions and behaviors. I've spoken to his friends and family, everyone who knows, this is/was absolutely out of character for him. I understand that we weren't perfect, but our problems were not to the extent that an affair should have been his answer. Then he freaked out, came home, left again, came back, left again. When I started moving on he is back and determined to make it work. How do I know there aren't ulterior motives? By the way, when the affair occurred I was 3 months pregnant, now I'm 6 months along. Any thoughts?

libby, so sorry for your situation. In answer to your question yes they can change. I am both a FWS and BS. I can tell you that my cheating was a character flaw that I have been working on ever since. I have had a lot of IC and I became a believer after my A too. Have you been checked for STD's? Has your H? I know he says he it didn't go that far but I wouldn't risk your child's health for your H's word. Glad you are in counseling. God bless.

Of course a person can change. It takes work by the person and his/her spouse, but it can happen.

It is not going to happen unless the guy makes changes in his life. If all he is doing is professing that he is a "new man", then I would doubt that anything changed. He needs counseling.

Your statement that "our problems were not to the extent of causing an A" is your perception, and that perception is wrong. There were enough problems to cause the A.

Unless you and he can figure out what caused the A, then there is little chance of figuring out how to prevent another one.

IMHO, you should insist on MC if he wants to come back, and then you and he should become devoted to building a great M.

Libby, the WS, must soul search, and find out the why they chose to have their affair.

My A was all my doings. I place no blame on my S, or OM. I chose to do this. I have searched my soul and found out the why's to my A.

I was a conflict avoider, this led to years of dishonesty with my H. He thought I was happy, I was not. I was empty, and he mistreated me, I never stood up for myself.

I was a people pleaser, couldn't say no, even to OM when I knew his advances were wrong. I wanted him to like me. PUKE!!!!

I had low self esteem, OM's compliments fed my esteem.

I had no worth, OM made me feel special because of all the risk he was willing to take.

I now know, I need to communicate all with my H, I am trying to embrace my fear of anger. Funny, my H is never angry with me, when I tell him all those things I use to keep bottled up inside of me.

I now know how to say NO, in a healthy fashion, and I feed off the power of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm building my esteem, I'm believing in myself. What others think of me, no longer drive me, what I think of me, gives me my worth.

I made a huge mistake, I repented, and I have changed my ways of thinking, and living.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is there really a possibility that a wayward spouse can really change? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not cheat because I was not a good person, I was not lacking morals, I had character flaws that led me to the choice of having an A.

The answer to your Q is YES!!!!!!!!!

KY

KY

How long did your affair last? How long did it take for you to get over it? These are just questions I'm curious of. How do you really get past it?

Libby,

Hi.. I have not posted in awhile and almost left but decided I needed to stay on this board whether things that are posted upset me or not. I need the help I can find here and nowhere else.

Yes, the WS can change. In my case, I have learned to love my husband more than ever and partly because of the affair, and the way he has forgiven me and loved me through it all. I was so mixed up after my father died, and lost, and the attention the OM gave me made me feel alive again ..in the beginning. In time I came to realize the situation was eating me alive with pain, in the form of guilt for what I was doing to my husband, who did not deserve a wife like me, my self esteem was so low that I didnt know how to change what I was doing. This was the PA I was involved in that almost ruined my life and my marriage.

Then there was my most recent 1 year long EA that I felt was just a friendship that got out of control and in which I found myself feeling things I had no right to ..outside of marriage. I was beginning to feel like I was the worst person around, when one day I found the courage to end the EA, and go to NC. When I woke up and realized I was the only one who could make my life turn out right, who could be a good person again, when I started to really take a look at myself and what I felt I was needing for me to do this again and again, I finally started to see things more realistically.

When I talked to my husband about the most recent 'friendship' he was very quiet, and then began asking me questions, which I answered honestly, to which he then asked me, "IS it over for good? Will you go to counseling?;" I said yes to both and have maintained NC, and started IC. There is no other way but honesty and NC, and in my case, IC..until I know why I have this pattern and keep repeating this addictive behavior.

I have finally seen the light and I will never go back again to a life of deceit and dishonor for myself and my husband. I will be the wife he needs and deserves.

Yes I absolutely feel the WS can change and I am living proof.. and my wonderful marriage is a testament to the fact I have changed and will never cheat again. If I even have the inclination, I seriously think I will shoot myself!

LMH

Libby... First, thank you for seeking FWS input. Oof course the FWS can change, just like the FBS can change after an A.

While the FWS needs to take full responsibility for the A (and I do), both partners played a part in the conditions that made the marriage less than perfect.

I never, ever, thought of myself as someone that could have an A. I thought I was above all that. When I was involved in it, I didn't feel like "me." But you know what? I'm human, I'm fallible, and so is everyone else here. No one is immune to an A, but at least I now have the knowledge and wisdom to recognize when I'm becoming vulnerable.

"Once a cheater, always a cheater" is a pretty hateful thing to say on a board where FWSs come to get support in their efforts to make things right. They already are dealing with a lot of guilt and remorse, trying to figure out what they can do to make up for their hurtful actions. And people here wonder that very few FWSs post here.

I hope your H is seeking IC and you're both in MC. It helps, along with time and forgiveness.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long did your affair last? How long did it take for you to get over it? These are just questions I'm curious of. How do you really get past it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Libby my A lasted 5 months, I guess you could add a month or two on for an EA. My DDAY of 1 year will be March 15.

I'm still getting past it. Knowledge is wonderful. I am reading MB and books. I really want a better me.

I would have to say reading and posting on MB, is what really got me through it. I needed support, I needed to be held accountable, I needed to find my flaws. I needed to really understand A's. I needed to pick myself apart and realize I had major work to do on myself.

If I had not changed myself, I would be vulnerable to have more A's. I am changing, and growing everyday I want my M - A proof.

I think holding yourself accountable, no more justifying is KEY in order to move on. If you are still blaming your S or OP, you can not take full responsibility for your A, and therefore you can not find the true reason you had the A, and then you can not change the behavior so it will not just be apart of your past, but it will be a way of life because you repeat it.


I also realized through IC (important also) that I had years of pent up anger towards my H, from all the conflict avoiding I had been doing. I had to address a bunch of issues, from the past, I needed to forgive him. (ironic, but in most cases, tis true)

NC, forever is a must. I'm sure you know this

It took a long time for me to forgive myself, that was my last step, well I'm still building trust, but for myself forgiveness was the last step, I couldn't move onto this step until I truly embraced my mistake, how can you forgive yourself when you are thinking (justifying) in the back of your head, "but" I stopped saying but, I stopped saying "IF" and I took hold of the responsibility of my A, and I then started to win my battle.

Remorse, NC, Self reflection and examination. Accountability, forgiveness, I guess is my answer to your last Q.

I hope it helped, feel free to ask me more, I'm very willing to help you.

KY

GBH,

Bravo! I agree with you and almost left the board because I was criticized so harshly for trying to find a way out of my EA. I left the boards for awhile and I did find my own way out. It helped so much to read how others began to see the light and to change, and I knew I could do it too. It is very hard for a new poster to be so scrutinized on here and they are often feeling like the worst person alive anyway when they venture to post for the first time.

Thanks for your post,
LMH

GBH -

Believe me, I don't mean to offend anyone or to be hurtful toward those who are recovering from a painful situation. I am just having to deal with a huge change in the way I view people, especially my husband. He and I had always, I thought, had the same ideals, morals, views, etc..., on situations such as this. He himself, I can quote, said "once a cheater....."

I still have such high expectations of the man I married and I now feel like I have no idea who the man I married is. His whole idea was to never put yourself in a situation that could lead to an affair. It's as if he went against everything he has ever believed in. He told me that it felt as if he had become the one thing he hated most in the world. He watched his mom go through the same thing and swore then that it was never going to happen to him or the person he married. I just feel like he's such a liar now and I have no faith in the things he tells me.

GBH -

Believe me, I don't mean to offend anyone or to be hurtful toward those who are recovering from a painful situation. I am just having to deal with a huge change in the way I view people, especially my husband. He and I had always, I thought, had the same ideals, morals, views, etc..., on situations such as this. He himself, I can quote, said "once a cheater....."

I still have such high expectations of the man I married and I now feel like I have no idea who the man I married is. His whole idea was to never put yourself in a situation that could lead to an affair. It's as if he went against everything he has ever believed in. He told me that it felt as if he had become the one thing he hated most in the world. He watched his mom go through the same thing and swore then that it was never going to happen to him or the person he married. I just feel like he's such a liar now and I have no faith in the things he tells me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He and I had always, I thought, had the same ideals, morals, views, etc..., </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I bet you still do, he just compromised his to indulge in his A.

I would check into his character flaws, this is what you are searching for, I'm sure of it. Why was he vulnerable? Low self esteem? Lack of worth, conflict avoidance........

Libby, all of us are in difference stages in recovery. I'm in a great place, I consider myself a RW. I think you had a great question, I think many can learn from it.

KY

double post-sorry

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Buttercup:CC ]</small>

(Just posted a long response and then it didn't show up!)

Libby:

I'm a FWS, so I'll give you my input. First of all, if your H did some kissing, groping, etc., it was a full PA. My A was with a woman (I'm a woman), and that's just about all we did too, but it was definitely considered a sexual A.

Secondly, in answer to your "once a cheater, always a cheater," I must agree that I take offense to that remark. My A happened when I was vulnerable (not that it's any excuse) and I am fully aware and responsible for it. I never thought that *I* could be a cheater. I always looked down on people who were capable of lying like that, and I couldn't understand why they wouldn't come clean to their spouses. A long time ago my H and I both agreed that by not telling the truth, you're lying daily. Every time I got in bed with my H and I didn't tell him the truth, I was lying, and I knew it. With all that in mind, I did have the A, but I know in my heart that I'd never do it again. It hurt too many people and it put me at a severe risk for depression.

I agree with GBH about WS' posting on this site. I posted at first, reaching out desperately for help. I was in severe depression. Someone by the name of Jess-Anne responded to me and was unbelievably harsh and downright cruel. She said that she was a BS herself, but to lay into me like that, hearing that I was desperate and hurt, was one of the cruelest things I'd had to endure, and it left me feeling very much suicidal. THAT is why WS' are reluctant to post here, along with the sentiments like "once a cheater, always a cheater" and other such sentiments that put the WS' in a very bad light. If we come here and we are deeply apologetic and are grieving and remorseful, we deserve some respect. After all, we're here to HELP our marriage; not to be torn apart by WS'.

I wish you luck with your pregnancy. I hope that you and your H are in IC and MC. I hope that he is remorseful and open and honest with you. It's a sensitive time for you and I'm sure that you need a lot of support. Good luck!

CC

Libby, Wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth here.

I am a FWH, hurt my wife awful. Here's the thing to keep in mind: EVERYONE IS WIRED FOR AN AFFAIR. It's not a trait that some people have. ANYONE can do it, it takes concentration and work on your marriage to stay faithful.

Awful example, although - a few nights ago, ON THE EVENING THAT MY WS LEFT ME, I got a very unexpected and unwelcome IM from the XOW. It threw me completely out of orbit. Some old feelings started to come up, but then I realized this can NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN, no matter WHAT my WS is doing. I immediately asked for NC and blocked the screen name she used from my list.

SO to answer your question: Libby, I will NEVER, EVER do what I did to my wife again. I won't do it even if we divorce. To me, the pain and anguish that it caused (and the physical damage to me - heh heh, W broke a phone over my head) - and the guilt I've dealt with ever since then, have removed me from the arena of being unfaithful.

BUT I DO LIVE WITH THIS KNOWLEDGE: I AM STILL WIRED FOR AN AFFAIR. It could happen. I pray it never will, I pray that my marriage will work out and we can work on each other's ENs and remove the LBs so that there will never be the temptation to stray again.

But the tools I've learned here, and my personal pledge to my friends here at MB is to hold myself accountable for EVERY ACTION that I do that is questionable. I admit everything here, get kicked in the head for it, and learn from the experience.

So I don't know if I answered your question or not. "Once a cheater, always a cheater"? WE ALL CAN BE CHEATERS, and it takes commitment to our spouse to keep us from cheating.

IMHO

David

(sidenote: David: I just wanted to tell you that I admire you for having the strength not to talk to the XOW on IM like that. I'd be so shocked if I EVER heard from my XOW in any capacity! I don't know what I'd do! And in your case, your wife is now a WS?? And are you separated? That's really strong of you to ignore the XOW like you have!!)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Is there really a possibility that a wayward spouse can really change? I have a really hard time believing it. I have always had the belief that "once a cheater, always a cheater." Could it really just be a one-time mistake?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Libby, yes it CAN be a one time mistake and yes they CAN change (I believe this is true for most repentant and remorseful FWS’s). Most A’s happen because people are not aware of their own weaknesses and vulnerabilities and because they don’t take the necessary precautions to safeguard themselves and their marriages. However, as you have already witnessed on these boards, many WS’s learn from their mistakes, take the necessary precautions and become FORMER and RECOVERED WS’s.

Please read the following post I've sent to another thread this morning, it will give you some insight:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Since I’ve never been involved in premarital or extra-marital sex myself, I can perfectly understand your question and concerns about this. However, as someone who’ve been involvement in a near-EA I know and understand now how easily people can get involved in A’s if not very cautious & careful… If I can explain: Although my involvement hasn’t progressed to a serious level yet, the feelings I’ve developed (even sexual feelings) were extremely intense… So intense that it scared me… And because of this, I have more understanding & empathy now for the weaknesses of people who get caught up in PA’s. From my own experience, I know how hard it is and how much willpower it take NOT to act on those feelings… I was lucky that certain internal factors (like my anxiousness, fear of hurting my H, awareness of consequences, etc.) helped prevented me from acting on those feelings... I think part of Satan’s strategy is to use these inappropriate feelings and sexual attraction people often develop for a member of the opposite sex to cause them to stray. And I think during infidelity these type of feelings are intensified to the 100th power. As someone stated earlier, we ALL are wired for an affairs, so be aware… Don’t think it can NEVER happen to you… I thought the same thing prior to my involvement, but I learned the hard way and my experience was an eye-opener to me.

Suzet</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Last night my WH took me on a date. We had a good time. He seems to be willing to spend any and all of his time with me. He even told me he feels like he's smothering me, but that he'd rather do that than be away from me too much.

Question: How can you tell if someone is being sincere? I always believed I was a good judge of character.

He stayed at the house last night, he slept on the couch, I still feel really weird when I think of the idea that the hands he used to put the rings on my finger have touched someone else or that the lips with which he used to kiss me so passionately have been on someone else's body. I get really bad images in my mind. I don't get mad at him when it happens, it's just that the hurt re-surfaces.

I enjoyed having him there and being able to talk to him, but considering the fact that I'm so cautious about him walking out again when do I invite him back? He keeps telling me that he is exactly where he wants to be and is with exactly who he wants. The only problem is, he said that before and then he flaked again. Right now, I guess we're just kind of dating. He also doesn't have to be at work until after noon today and I'm freaking out because I keep wondering if he's making some sort of plan to be with her. Just paranoia?