Look at your last post regarding finances, Christine. He is out of control. He does not care about how this is affecting you financially. You have got to take charge here.

Another way to bring this A to an abrupt end is to plug up finances available for the OW.

Let him and her know that you will demand what is rightfully yours. I say see a lawyer as soon as possible.

They are having play time at the expense of you and your children.

Christine, please start thinking this through. What you are writing and sharing here is scary. Your WH is on a self-destructive path. Don't go down this road with him. Don't take your boys there.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MommyCBaby:
<strong> Thanks, Mimi.

I think what scares me, is that it feels like I'm initiating the "final steps" leading to a divorce. I know, weak, but it is how I feel.

-Christine </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not initiating the final steps. You are simply protecting yourself and your kids. Frankly, I would never have been so tolerant as you have from what I've read of your story.

Your husband has left you. You still let him come around 'to see the kids.' Anytime he wants. While I do understand the theory behind Plan A, I think you reach a point where it's more destructive than constructive. You have to move on to Plan B and give him a taste -- including separate financials -- of what it will be like if he doesn't recommit to his marriage, make up to you and his children, and return home.

Separate your financials, see a lawyer and draw up a temporary financial agreement, and present it to him when you start your Plan B. Enough is enough. He has little respect for the position you've taken (been forced to take actually) in response to his illicit affair.

I agree with ark -- a 19 year old! My daughter is 19 and if she got involved with an older married FATHER of 2 young boys, I wouldn't strangle HER I'd strangle HIM.

He should be ashamed of himself. But then so should all cheaters. From what I know of your story, he is still cake eating -- AND SO ARE YOU. You don't want to go the full route of Plan B because you're afraid it will drive him over the edge. So you sit on the fence with him. Well it might drive him away for a bit. But let the consequences of his actions sink in to him. He's a grown up, treat him like one.


I also agree you might want to start being a little more aloof from him. Develop some independence, don't be an open book to the man. He's closed off the intimacy with you, do the same for awhile from him. Let him MISS you, what you bring to his life.

You can do this. You can. And you must.

good advice rosiepie....

lots of BS understand that there is nothing they can do to control a WS until it's time for them to make a move...then suddenly the fog shifts on to the BS brain and they believe setting boundaries somehow holds magical powers to force a WS to do something.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

arkie

Thanks, all!!

As much as I have put up with, my actions of the last 2 days are very big steps for me. I agree, and will get going with separating the financials and getting in touch with a lawyer. Everyone at work has been suggesting a lawyer for weeks, if not months.

I'll get cracking this weekend. I know I have to do this. Guess I get stuck in my own little pity party, sad that I have to do this. I just need to keep telling myself that I didn't do this, he did. He gets what he gets. I do not owe him any favors.

-Christine

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MommyCBaby:
<strong> I agree, and will get going with separating the financials and getting in touch with a lawyer. Everyone at work has been suggesting a lawyer for weeks, if not months.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Christine, consider the impact you seeing a lawyer will have on him. It may be just the kick in the pants he needs.

I filed for divorce the first time in May 2004. My H BEGGED me to drop the suit. I agreed provided he 1. end all contact with the OW and 2. agree to go to marriage counseling. He agreed.

He managed to go no contact till about August, when it started up again. And of course he lied about it and told me he was in NC. I intercepted several emails between them, him declaring his undying love for her, wanting to be with her, etc. I told him enough. Filed again in September and presented a very reasonable property/custody agreement. He went ballistic, dropped all communication with OW and we started MC.

While I can't say everything has been just peachy since then, I can say that he is no longer in contact with the OW, has apologized for the A repeatedly, calling it the 'biggest mistake of my life' and can't believe he did something so dumb.

Only time will tell if my M recovers. But at least I no longer have the OW influencing the roller coaster ride. The hills and valleys are a bit more tame.

Take a position, Christine. Put a stake in the ground and say 'this is the line that you cannot cross'. Protect yourself and your children. Find a good lawyer. BTW, a $5000 retainer is about standard.

Be careful about lawyers.

I found one that only charged $500 to draw up a boilerplate separation agreement. FWH came over and signed it.

Another lawyer wanted to charge me big bucks....

Get Going with this, Christine!!

Still searching the lawyer out, so far I can not afford retainers.

My own Plan B is in effect, though. Seems much tougher on me than him. I have not contacted him or replied to most of his e-mails or IMs. SIGH I can understand how withdrawal is hard on WS, except he's not stopping contact with OW so he feels no withdrawal.

What are the chances that I will fall out of love or just walk away since I am distancing myself so much from him??

-Christine

Christine:

I hope your own Plan B includes a PLAN B letter!

That's an important and essential ingredient.

It's supposed to be his road map home.

I'm editing in the following quote from CHRIS on another thread:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Simply cutting off contact is NOT Plan B.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi,

Bad me. I drafted a letter but did not give it to him. It's in this thread a few replies up. Will that one do?

-Christine

About your PLAN B Letter:

In general, try to focus on talking about your feelings and not his. Don't try to use logic with him. So you would use "I" language.

When you talk about how you feel, make it into a love letter. I really focused on what I loved about my H and what I would miss about being with him.

Specifically talk about the mistakes that you made and how you have changed. Don't talk about her. He will stop reading then.

I like your statement about the conditions. He also needs to write her a NC letter stating that he will never see or talk to her ever again in his life!

Tell him that you plan to see a lawyer to separate out the finances. Until that time, do it on your own. You really need to get a separate bank account.

Get to work. Let me hear from you.

Mimi,

While I re-vamp the Plan B letter and work on the lawyer, I have something else to bounce off you. I received the following e-mail from WH about an hour ago, and I have not responded yet. What, if anything, should I say???

Hello,

I just wanted to see how you are doing today and in general? You have been doing a good job of not talking to me, and I know that's its probably been really hard for you not too. Not sure how I feel about it either but its really strange not hear how your day was or any of that. I do want you to communicate with me regarding family matters or if you just need to talk.

I don't want you to feel shut out completely I'm just not ready to talk about you and me at this point and I hope you understand the best you can? Like I said a million times you are my best friend and right now I don't feel like we are friends at all. Anyway I hope you look into refinancing the house or whatever we can do to get some money out of it. We aren't divorced so we should tap into that to clear some things up.

I have been here two years and I am considering making a change in the near future so it would be best if we wanted to do something if we tried to do it now. Let me know what you think and we will take it from there. Have a great day and I will see you guys for dinner tonight.

-Christine

Christine:

Your WH's E-Mail is very eye-opening! He thinks he's got your mind, Christine.

I think he's got something up his sleeve. He's wanting some money. That's the entire point of the letter as far as I can see.

I think he's fallen deeper into her.

I think it's definitely time for you to give him the PLAN B letter tonight.

I've got some time this afternoon. Get to work. What's your thinking?

What do you think about the E-Mail?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wanted to see how you are doing today and in general? You have been doing a good job of not talking to me, and I know that's its probably been really hard for you not too. Not sure how I feel about it either but its really strange not hear how your day was or any of that. I do want you to communicate with me regarding family matters or if you just need to </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The more I think of it really makes me mad. The audacity of him. He has left you and the boys and acts like it's just another day. He thinks that he is "all that" that you are just sitting around wanting him while he is saying that he does not want you. He is being so insensitive and open about this that it is disgusting!!

What type of IM does he send to her after sending you this E-MAIL?

Me and MIL had been talking about a refi or equity to help pay off my cc's and do some fixing up to the house. We do not want to make it easy to clear out his debt though. Quite the pickle. In either case, WH will not receive a nickel in cash, but I don't want to make it easier for him to walk away with less of a financial burden. As I said, they are all "our" debts, but my name is the one that would get hurt by default payments.

I don't know what to make of his letter. I know he's realised I am not trying to call or reach out to him, was hoping he would miss me.

His last line is in regards to him possibly getting a new job.

I just don't know him anymore, so I have no clue about motives for this letter....other than he feels the loss of my friendship and he still wants to control the financial aspect of our R.

-Christine

Christine:

Remember I lived this and I had a hard time accepting the reality of it all too.

I will say this again as an objective outsider.

This is no longer your H talking. He is not looking out for your best interests. He has gone to another level.

A part of you is buying into his delusion. That's the value of MB. Read my lips, Christine. Scream this from the rooftops: I DO NOT WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND. I WANT TO BE YOUR WIFE. You have gone years and children past being his friend. That is demeaning to you to be put in this position. You deserve more than an E-Mail, a phone chat or an evening visit for dinner. You need to no longer accept be treated in this demeaning fashion. He thinks of you as sitting there lapping up his crumbs.

He wants to give you crumbs. YOU ARE WORTHY OF A BANQUET, A FEAST, A GOURMET DINNER!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want you to feel shut out completely I'm just not ready to talk about you and me at this point and I hope you understand the best you can? Like I said a million times you are my best friend and right now I don't feel like we are friends at all. Anyway I hope you look into refinancing the house or whatever we can do to get some money out of it. We aren't divorced so we should tap into that to clear some things up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is such bull crap! Why would he assume that you feel shut out completely unless he is shutting you out? Moving on to the second sentence, is this how he treats a best friend? I guess he thinks he can snow you with the best friend comment because then he moves into what he really wants... talk about the finances. Why do you have to look into refinancing the house? Is he too busy playing? Yep, he wants to clear some things up so he can easily move on.....

I just don't like it that he's acting like you are working together as a happily married couple. He created this mess and is not taking any responsibility for his wrongdoing. He is not apologetic or guilty at all. He is feeling no pain. Definitely time for PLAN B!!!

Christine:

Share with me what you are thinking and doing out there!!

Mimi,

I was hiding, because I am weak and don't deserve all the attention and great advice you are giving me. This is my hardest shell to break, my submissiveness. I have always been the "obedient" wife. I hate when he's mad at me, even though I know he has not given any respect to my feelings in the last several months. I am so strong in so many other areas of my life (and this sitch), but am weak when it comes to him. Someone on MB said that at some point the BS takes on the fog....I fear that is me. I know this advice has helped so many, I know there are no guarantees in life, I know that my H is already gone.....so, why can't I just follow the advice and go dark?????

Since I still have not hit my personal limit on tolerance or loss of love, is it completely stupid to remain in Plan A-like mode??

I am prepared for tons more 2X4's....I guess I get what I deserve for being soo weak.

-Christine

I understand what you are doing.

I am afraid for you that you are enabling the A and making it last longer even making him fall more deeply "in love" with her?

Do you understand what I am saying?

This was my biggest regret, the time period when I enabled the A.

It felt OK to me but, in the long run, I was the loser.

Keep coming here to talk to someone who has been in your position. I was weak, too.

I came to realize though if I didn't get stronger that I would lose my H. I got stronger to fignt for him!

<small>[ March 22, 2005, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks for not beating me up, Mimi.

I am trying.

-Christine

Why would I beat up on you? I want to help you. I understand what you are going through. Believe me, I was "weak" too. I know how my H fooled me. I wish you could believe and feel that you do not deserve to be treated this way.

Why is it Ok for him to think of you only as his friend? My H told me those same things. I told him that I didn't want to be his friend. I told him that, if he chose to divorce me to be with the OW, I couldn't be his friend. I wouldn't treat a friend that cruelly. It would have been a different story if there was not another woman involved. Don't believe him when he tries to convince you that this is not about his R with her.

Let's keep the communication lines open because he will try to capture your mind with his insane ideas about this.