Folks, as many of you know I have just started Joint MC with FWW.

For many months whilst dealing with WS's EA / PA I have been feeling understandably low. But even after the A has ended (for 2.5 months or so) I am feeling really really really dark. I mean nothing makes me feel happy, it's like that part of me has died and I can't bring it back.

I have a what should be great(but high pressure) job, a great place to live and supportive parents that are ill.

For the life of me I can not focus on anything other than quitting my job whilst I still have not totally messed up, which is definitely coming. I need a job to survive, but I do not have the confidence to think that I am worthy of anything but the most menial of jobs.

Man is it bad!!! Bad sleep, hot and cold sweats at night, fighting the urge to crawl back under the covers every day and hide from things. I feel mentally and physically drained, like crying without the tears, although I do find that I the tears can come easily at times for no reason.

In a nutshell, I don't want any responsibilities / pressure in my life, and am seemingly want to go to any length to avoid them

I am not a fan of aniti D's as I have seen how zonked my mum has been by taking them. So, are there any natural remeidies, accupuncture, etc that you have used to blow yourselves out of this hole that I find my self in?

I tried to explore alternatives to anti-Ds but ended up getting them in the end. I am actually glad I am on them now even though I have always been anti-pill in the past.

Dude, what you describe is where I am just coming out of. Today is 4 months since D-Day and I am just now this week (and maybe last week) closer to my previous productivity at work.

I am sure a lot of this is because me and my EL are getting along much better than we have in a couple of years and things look to be improving in the future.

I guess I just got to the point of not allowing myslef to take some of the cr@p that has been continually handed to me. She can go or she can stay, she chooses to stay so I choose to think that she is serious about rebuilding.

If I had to choose the anti-Ds again I would, if only because I have to keep my job. Took over a month of taking them to feel good again though.

Good luck to ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RenaissanceMan:
<strong> Folks, as many of you know I have just started Joint MC with FWW.

For many months whilst dealing with WS's EA / PA I have been feeling understandably low. But even after the A has ended (for 2.5 months or so) I am feeling really really really dark. I mean nothing makes me feel happy, it's like that part of me has died and I can't bring it back.

I have a what should be great(but high pressure) job, a great place to live and supportive parents that are ill.

For the life of me I can not focus on anything other than quitting my job whilst I still have not totally messed up, which is definitely coming. I need a job to survive, but I do not have the confidence to think that I am worthy of anything but the most menial of jobs.

Man is it bad!!! Bad sleep, hot and cold sweats at night, fighting the urge to crawl back under the covers every day and hide from things. I feel mentally and physically drained, like crying without the tears, although I do find that I the tears can come easily at times for no reason.

In a nutshell, I don't want any responsibilities / pressure in my life, and am seemingly want to go to any length to avoid them

I am not a fan of aniti D's as I have seen how zonked my mum has been by taking them. So, are there any natural remeidies, accupuncture, etc that you have used to blow yourselves out of this hole that I find my self in? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">R-man -

You gave enough symptoms there to give an honest opinion - yes, that's depression. It won't last forever, but if it's affecting your work, family life, etc., it's serious enough to do something about right away. I'm not an advocate of medicine (even tho I work in the field). I take A/Ds out of necessity (I have a permanent, although off and on form of depression). I've don't know what kind of meds your mom is taking, but most of the newer one's don't zonk you out - some make you feel drowsy for a few days till you get used to them, but that passes. A lot have side effects, I went thru a bunch of different ones till I found one that doesn't affect me. Your Dr. can prescribe them to you - Lexapro is supposed to have the fewest side effects, although it about drove me insane with its side effects (doesn't affect most people that way - I just had to be the rare exception).

For natural remedies, a lot of people take St John's Wart - you can get it at a Health Food Store. There are mixed opinions on that, but if you don't want to go the med route, you may want to try it for a while.

In any event, you should also get to an IC and talk about it - that can sometimes end it right there. Make sure you get a good one tho!

But the A/Ds DO WORK wonders! They can help because they aid you in staying strong and THERE when you are needed most. I'd advise looking into them.

All my prayers!

David

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Talk to IC, she/he might suggest you to get AD anyway. It is the best way to over come this, combo between therapy & med.

What's your mom's med ?. don't forget to mention her too.

You see, we found that there is genetic predisposition in depression. The A might just triggers it.

Do it ASAP.

How is recovery going ?

-rh-

RenaissanceMan-

This is my take on it, and I'm by no means an expert. I think that during the time when you are desparate to get your WS back, and you're doing all these things and expending all this emotional energy, and your thoughts are consumed by this....that reconciliation is probably kind of a let down....not that it's disappointing, but that your emotions that have been on this roller coaster, and your mind was racing, that when you finally reach your goal, you don't have to work so hard anymore......you have time to *Feel* and you feel depressed. I think it sounds perfectly normal.

Don't be scared of anti-D's, find out which one your Mom was on, and just don't use that one. There are plenty of AD's that are fantastic! And lemme tell you that you will be relieved when they start working. Depression is a chemical imbalance in your brain....it's nothing to be ashamed of, it doesn't mean your weak. If you had a swimming pool, and you started to get algae in it, you would run right to the store and buy the chemicals that would make your pool have the right balance again, right? Then the algae would be gone......same deal....it's just setting the chemicals straight.

So go to the Doc, have them put you on something. Voice your fear about AD's making you a zombie......they'll listen, and put you on one that doesn't have that side effect. (Some AD's have sexual side effects....try to get one that isn't known for that...you don't wanna open up that can of worms...trust me on this one).

-Caren

Folks - thanks. I was hoping that you wouldn't suggest what you did, but I guess like most things I already knew the answer, just didn't want to beleive that yet again it was happening to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My mum was on Effexor or some similar named drug I think. Seemed to turn her into a space cadet when she was on it though...

That's what worried me. But from what you have said though I shouldn't write them off.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: RenaissanceMan ]</small>

R-man - Caren is right...it's that your brain can't function the way it should - too much overload all at once - seratonin going wild.

Oh and Caren - on the sexual side effects.....for me, it's been a BLESSING LOL! - if you know what I mean. It's helped with those lonely nights...
But R-Man - make sure you talk to the doc about every concern! And keep in mind you may have to try more than one to find one that works best for you...

David

Hi RM,

I am sorry to hear that you are still down.Yeah,you sound depressed to me too.It took me a long while to get over those dark feelings.Up unitl October of last year I was taking Remeron and it worked very well for me.No major side effects,I only gained about 10 pounds which is easily lost when I went off them.It was a life saver,I slept better,ate better and felt more stabilized.

Try not to think of how your mom is reacting to her AD's.Every one is different and it's not necessarily what will happen to you.So,I would encourage you to talk to your DR.

Also,if you can,I find exercise has helped a great deal.Even just going for brisk walks.It makes me feel better about myself and I get out of the house.It helps to have a frisky Border Collie who stares at you with longing to make you get out and go for walkies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> lol

Keep all options open ok? Good luck!

O

David-

At one point like 6 years ago my H and I were both on Paxil (Known for it's sexual side effects)...lemme tell you how much fun that was....it wasn't that you didn't want SF....you did, and you could...ummmm, perform, but never got to the *finale*. LMAO

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> David-

At one point like 6 years ago my H and I were both on Paxil (Known for it's sexual side effects)...lemme tell you how much fun that was....it wasn't that you didn't want SF....you did, and you could...ummmm, perform, but never got to the *finale*. LMAO

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LMAO!!!!!! SO far it's kept things to nothing at all. Hopefully that's where it will stay - I'm on it for the next few months, and SF is one of my main ENs. I'm just grateful that this stuff helps me get past that. The thoughts come, the desire for my W, but then I move on to other things....LOL

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> ... but never got to the *finale*. LMAO

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tanelornpete,
Paxil doesn't kill your sex drive ... but it never let you reach resolution which quite frustrating. Caren is right on the money ... However if you take a viagra w/ it, you would transform to a stud <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

Hi Caren ... too bad they don't have Cialis or Viagra 6 years ago <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

RM,
Different drugs has different side effect. That is why you need a doctor and an IC to monitor you. Paxil, Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Laxpro, Celexa to name a few.

-rh-

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

VERY FUNNY REDHAT. I need my sex drive killed right now. Don't need the Viagra. You TWERP!

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Hi RM,
You can see from my sig line, it's been a while since dday for me. I did NOT want to accept that I was depressed and when I did it took months for me to finally voice the words to my doc.

I've been on Effexor for 3 months and wonder how I did it before. I guess the answer is, I didn't. I didn't do anything. Not that it bothered me, I would have been perfectly content to pull the covers over my head and stay that way. I couldn't think of anything that I actually wanted to do and had reached the 'why bother' point.

It took a couple of weeks for the AD's to work but it was like a light slowly coming on. Each day, I started to think of a few more things that I needed or wanted to do. Now that I'm regaining my appetite and actually feel like doing things, I may gain a few pounds. I love to bake, well, cook in general really. Soup and grilled cheese had become a gourmet meal here. Now, I'm back to enjoying cooking big meals. Plus, right now there is chocolate pound cake, banana bread, cranberry/banana bread, and mexican cornbread in my kitchen. Actually, there's a LOT of banana bread. We live in FL and have banana trees. We took 4 bunches off the trees when a freeze threatened. 2 more bunches have to ripen and I'll make and freeze even more bread.

The AD's haven't increased my appetite to the level it sounds like. I still eat about the same amount, I just enjoy food more now. Also, I love to cook. I love to take things to the neighbors and they've certainly never complained. It feels great to be able to do things again that I actually enjoy. Last year, I tried to make banana bread but I really didn't care if the bananas just rotted in the garage (didn't want 'em to but mainly didn't care.) Apathy was a familiar feeling. I just didn't have the energy to care about much of anything. Not only do I care now but things are actually fun. We go places, do things, and I'm not just going along. I'm glad to go and I have fun.

I guess I associated asking for AD's with being weak. It wasn't asking that made me weak, I understand now. It was the depression that made me weak- weak, drained, and not myself.

Effexor worked for me. I guess it works differently on different people. Could your mother also be taking something else that contributed to her mental changes? 'Zonked' is not how I would describe myself taking this drug.

The changes my H saw in me were enough to get him to break down and go on ad's himself. I'd told him for a long time he needed them but he also resisted and regrets now that he didn't do it sooner. Depression was killing us both. I felt like I'd won the battle for him against the alien that had inhabited his body only to lose him again. Now, I'm finally seeing the guy I know and love. I think we'll both continue on the meds for another couple of months before backing down and off them.

If your doc feels it's appropriate, give them a try. You'll probably be surprised.

Wishing you the best,
MM

Hi RM,
You can see from my sig line, it's been a while since dday for me. I did NOT want to accept that I was depressed and when I did it took months for me to finally voice the words to my doc.

I've been on Effexor for 3 months and wonder how I did it before. I guess the answer is, I didn't. I didn't do anything. Not that it bothered me, I would have been perfectly content to pull the covers over my head and stay that way. I couldn't think of anything that I actually wanted to do and had reached the 'why bother' point.

It took a couple of weeks for the AD's to work but it was like a light slowly coming on. Each day, I started to think of a few more things that I needed or wanted to do. Now that I'm regaining my appetite and actually feel like doing things, I may gain a few pounds. I love to bake, well, cook in general really. Soup and grilled cheese had become a gourmet meal here. Now, I'm back to enjoying cooking big meals. Plus, right now there is chocolate pound cake, banana bread, cranberry/banana bread, and mexican cornbread in my kitchen. Actually, there's a LOT of banana bread. We live in FL and have banana trees. We took 4 bunches off the trees when a freeze threatened. 2 more bunches have to ripen and I'll make and freeze even more bread.

The AD's haven't increased my appetite to the level it sounds like. I still eat about the same amount, I just enjoy food more now. Also, I love to cook. I love to take things to the neighbors and they've certainly never complained. It feels great to be able to do things again that I actually enjoy. Last year, I tried to make banana bread but I really didn't care if the bananas just rotted in the garage (didn't want 'em to but mainly didn't care.) Apathy was a familiar feeling. I just didn't have the energy to care about much of anything. Not only do I care now but things are actually fun. We go places, do things, and I'm not just going along. I'm glad to go and I have fun.

I guess I associated asking for AD's with being weak. It wasn't asking that made me weak, I understand now. It was the depression that made me weak- weak, drained, and not myself.

Effexor worked for me. I guess it works differently on different people. Could your mother also be taking something else that contributed to her mental changes? 'Zonked' is not how I would describe myself taking this drug.

The changes my H saw in me were enough to get him to break down and go on ad's himself. I'd told him for a long time he needed them but he also resisted and regrets now that he didn't do it sooner. Depression was killing us both. I felt like I'd won the battle for him against the alien that had inhabited his body only to lose him again. Now, I'm finally seeing the guy I know and love. I think we'll both continue on the meds for another couple of months before backing down and off them.

If your doc feels it's appropriate, give them a try. You'll probably be surprised.

Wishing you the best,
MM

Hi RM,

Just a quick note to you before I go off to work....ah.......lucky I can say "work" because I had very similar feelings as you.

My D-day was last March....sigh....and I went on anti-d's in August. I could not concentrate at work....had lost seventeen pounds...and was very depressed. I tried St. John's Wort, did not do anything and Lexapro made me feel sleepy. Then I tried Exxefor and by that weekend I was feeling better. Thanks goodness because that was the weekend I caught xWH talking on cell to OW. Ugh! I did not feel zoned out...it helped me to cope with Plan B #1 and #2 that happened two months after I began anti-d's. No side effects for me and I did not feel zoned out. Likewise, it did not make me feel euphoric or "take away" from my moments of happiness. It helped me to get me back on track at work. I am in a high-pressure job and have to be "on" at work.

I just stopped taking them around the first of the year (about six months). No after effects for me. If I had the choice again between taking them or not...I choose to take them. It helped to even me out and regain my focus.

RM, you have been through a lot and as Dr. Harley would say....why suffer, if there is something out there. I remember that you mentioned that you have been feeling this way for awhile now....it is did not just happen...you have been feeling this "extreme" way for a few months now. Work is important and it defines us as well as keep a roof over our head.

If one anti-d does not agree with you, don't give up, ask your doctor for another one. Everyone's body chemistry is different. The help is out there. I hope you will consider consulting with your doctor.

Be good to yourself, RM.....you deserve to be happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ss

Hi RM,

I am very much like you in being reticent to take any medication, much less one that would potentially alter the way I engage with and respond to my life. After D-day, I did pretty good at digging myself out of the hole - lots of long walks, IC, lots of time with friends. But when I started my new job (yup, forced back to work b/c it was "my" choice to not live with an adulterer and therefore the kids were "my" responsibility - sigh) I could feel myself starting to slip.

It felt as though every synapse was constantly on fire and the adrenaline never stopped coursing through my body. Fight or flight 24/7. I looked into St. John's Wort, but my doctor and I agreed that just b/c it's "herbal" doesn't make it less of a drug, so I chose to go on Effexor.

Nothing mind-numbing, no loss of control or feeling - it just helped to turn off the obsession and anxiety. It allowed me to breathe and relax (and, most importantly, to function effectively as a mother and an employee).

I was on a relatively low dose (75 mg, I think) for about 9 months. No side effects that I could tell. I just came off of it with a few days worth of withdrawal symptoms, but now all is well.

I totally understand your not wanting to take them. But it does sound as though things are slowly but surely building to a place where they may be beyond your ability to work through them just by yourself. You might want to consider them as a (relatively) short-term measure - you're not necessarily on them for life but until you and your life are able to stabilize a bit. JMHO.

Blessings,

Gris

Hi All, thank you for putting your personal experiences down for me read. I have done some reading and foun that a study using St John's Wart 1800mg and passion flower made a marked improvement in the lives of people suffering the effects of depression and mood swings.

Given my concern and apprehension about Anti D's I have decided to start taking it today. Taken two tablets and no real change as yet but I beleive it takes several days for the effects to take hold. I will keep you all posted on the progress of the herbal formula. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Thanks RM

RM-

Here's what I found on St.John's Wort:

Studies of St. John's wort have evaluated individuals with major depression of mild to moderate intensity. (Contrary to widespread misreporting, this is clinical depression.) This contradictory-sounding language indicates that the level of depression is more severe than simply feeling "blue." However, it is not as severe as the most intense forms of depression, which usually require hospitalization. Typical symptoms of major depression of mild to moderate severity include depressed mood, lack of energy, sleep problems, anxiety, appetite disturbance, difficulty concentrating, and poor stress tolerance. Irritability can also be a sign of depression.

Taken as a whole, research suggests that St. John's wort is effective in about 55% of cases. As with other antidepressants, the full effect takes approximately 4 to 6 weeks to develop.

Warning: St. John's wort should never be relied on for the treatment of very severe depression. If you or a loved one feels suicidal, unable to cope with daily life, paralyzed by anxiety, incapable of getting out of bed, unable to sleep, or uninterested in eating, see a physician at once. Drug therapy may save your life.

*******Just wanted to make sure you knew the facts.....I think your depression may need more than St.John's Wort can handle.

JMO,

-Caren

Hi CarenMc,
Thanks for the clarification. I will give the St John's wart a go for the moment.

I am still very uncomfortable with taking the anti D's. I am starting to try meditation as well and some exercise again. Hopefully the combination of the three will help me..I will monitor my situation as well as asking friends to do so.

If things do not improve soon I will have exhausted all other options and will have no issue with taking anti D's. I am not discounting what you and many others have said, just exhausting all other options first.