Hello everyone,

I have read and visited MB for a couple of years now, and find the information extremely valuable.

Sadly, the last 7 months of those were during my EMA (both EA and PA). I've been married over 10 years. I'm sure much of my story will sound typical to the affair experience. I've read enough to know about the fog and the fact that so much of what I'm feeling right now is likely inaccurate. Still, I'm really wrestling with what to do, what the best course of action will ultimately be for everyone involved.

We had a DDay about a month ago; both of our spouses now know about it, and both of our spouses are, at least as of now, wishing to save our marriages. There has been some limited contact (phone, email) between MM and me since DDay (mostly business-related, which cannot be avoided). I have CC:d my H on all emails and taken all calls with H in the room. There has been some "non business" matters discussed; all of which has been shared with H to keep him in the loop.

MM is filing for divorce. He has also made it known that he wishes for us to get together, though he is keeping far away from me to allow me to make my decision about my marriage without his pressuring me. I have told him that I really want the chance for time to pass so that I can work on my marriage, possibly explore MC if need be, before I make my final decision. He claims his need to divorce transcends our A, that he has concluded that his M had long since run its course.

All that said, I did, without question, fall intensely in love with MM. Even prior to the DDay, there had been discussion about the possibility of our leaving our marriages. Of course, now that it's all so "real" it's amazing how frightening and emotionally gut-wrenching such a thought really is.

On the flip side, suffices to say, I feel horrible about what I did to H. I realize this is near meaningless, as if I'm so sorry, why did I submit to the A in the first place, and moreover, why did I let it go on for so long. No excuses for my behavior, I know that.

In the aftermath, my H and I are doing OK, in that we've had many, many deep discussions. It blows my mind what a wonderful man H is. The forgiveness, the caring, the loving and total support he's demonstrating clearly illustrates how much better a person he is than me. If it weren't for the two major EN's that he wasn't/isn't satisfying of mine, there would be no question, I would be 100% committed to remaining married.

But the two areas I'm still wrestling with include my sexual needs and financial, two of the major EN's that were met and then some by MM. My H had floundered for a number of years with his career, as (admittedly) had I. Now, although H is on a clear career path, it's a path that will never bring us terrific financial stability, and it will require that I put in very long hours with my work (i.e. early mornings through late nights) pretty much for the remainder of my marriage. I love my work, but it's a rigorous schedule to keep. What's worse, H and I are in our mid 30's, we have no money saved to speak of and nothing saved towards our retirement. The fact that neither of us has been as fiscally prudent as we should leaves me frightened for our future. And twice during our M, H was fired from his jobs. He's extremely smart and reliable, has extremely good work ethics. He just fell short of what his bosses wanted in his work performance (both jobs were poor matches). But still... the insecurity this gave me was notable.

More over, I have yet to feel any inclination towards sex with my H. We've been actively being intimate all along, including since DDay, and we're trying very hard to.... well, work at this. But my concern is that I never really had a sexual compatability to my H in the first place. I was married when I was rather young and still very sexually timid; I was actually relieved that we did not engage very often in sex in those first couple of years. It wasn't until I began to mature in this sense that I began to discover how little attraction I have towards H in this regard.

You probably know what's coming. Assuming MM follows through with his divorce, I will be faced with the -- right or wrong, opportunity to enter a relationship in which I can pursue my dream career -- MM has already expressed a desire to support me on whatever direction I wish to take this path, finances will never be an issue again. And I have never experienced sensual and sexual intimacy like that with MM -- not even with H in the early part of our relationship, as I was still very immature in that regard back then. Yes, I feel very much more emotions and feelings surrounding MM and all he is; our common interests and aspirations, etc. I've just highlighted the two most obvious points in question.

I want to think that my feelings for H will somehow come around. I DO love and care very much for him; the thought of leaving him and never seeing him again is paralyzing! But I can recall many instances during my marriage in which I harbored "crushes" on coworkers and others in our social circle.

I'm just so confused as to how "far gone" my marriage is, about whether this whole situation is really the result of losing a certain compatability with H. Or is this all just part of the fog? H is aware of my conflict, and is giving me an incredible amount of space as I work through this.

Any and all input is welcome. I know what I did was so horrible, and I realize I should just be grateful that I have such a forgiving and loving spouse. Why can't I just cut this event from my life and move on. But I still very much love and miss MM.

oatmeal

Welcome to MB,

I have read and visited MB for a couple of years now, and find the information extremely valuable.

Although you have decided not to use it.

I'm just so confused as to how "far gone" my marriage is, about whether this whole situation is really the result of losing a certain compatability with H. Or is this all just part of the fog? H is aware of my conflict, and is giving me an incredible amount of space as I work through this.

If you "know" you're in the fog then you ain't in the fog...your rationalizing and justifying.

You probably know what's coming. Assuming MM follows through with his divorce, I will be faced with the -- right or wrong, opportunity to enter a relationship in which I can pursue my dream career

You already made the choice to be in a relationship with the MM. You now need to make a choice to be in a relationship with your H.

I don't mean to come accross as harsh...just blunt.

You're still very close to d-day. You have 10 years of "real stuff" with your H. Both good and bad.

You have 7 months of fantasy with MM. No kid problems, money problems, sex or romance problems. Looks like you found a geenie in a bottle, huh?

Give you H feedback on what you need from him. I can tell you that this A coupled with the fact that you find him sexually unattractive and unsupportive financially will probably reduce him to a quivering mess. Not exactly what a man likes to hear....that his wife's lover has money and is better in bed.

Get into counseling ASAP!!!

God Bless

Doug

O,

I had same experience with OW. The A lasted about a year. I had all the same thoughts from the sex, to her career, she loves doing all the things I do. I thought I met someone just like me, only in the female version. She was married with a youg child also. We had so much in common. She is now D because if an abusive H. I am going thru major withdrawls.

My W and I have had our fair share of problems. I owe it to her to do everything I can to make this marriage work. If it does not, we will have no regrets later on.

I think we see what we want to see in the OP. And we think it would be easier to be with that person instead of dealing with the issues at hand. I know where you are coming from on this. It is so hard. It is not even a day by day thing, it is minute by minute.

Oatmeal,

My first thought is this...love is a choice. It is a verb, not a noun. You chose to love someone, you don't just feel that way. That isnt real love. I loved my kids before they were ever born, before I had ever even met them. Why? Because I chose to.

Second, I have to ask a question here before I can give anymore advice other than what is being given to you. Are you a Christian? It is relevant to the things you are considering.

In His arms.

Hi, oatmeal.

Let me ask you a couple of questions.

Do you feel you have a 'right' to get your emotional needs met? A right to great sex and a right to financial security?

What if the adulterer, later on, develops erectile dysfunction or can't maintain his current financial status? Will you then be free to pursue someone else to meet your needs? Were does it end?
What if he tires of you?

You are discussing non-issues.

The simple fact is that you are making bad choices. What you have done, is simply wrong. Justification for wrong actions is hollow to everyone except for the justifier.

I do want to commend you for posting here. That is very gutsy and indicates that you possess some serious 'grit'.

If you want to recover your marriage, you must completely stop all contact with the adulterer.

All the best,
Gimble

Oatmeal,

Let's see:

1)
H satisfies 8 EN and Oatmeal had A . OM satisfies only 2 EN. How many OM's will oatmeal need to satisfy the other 8 that OM does not meet and that H does? Who knows.

2)
H and Oatmeal does not have savings . Is it only H's responsibility? or both? MMMMMMMMMM! Let me think.......... Voila! In a marriage both parts are accountable for the finances. H and Oatmeal agree with spending money and not being financially responsible. Is Oatmeal going to change her spending behavior because of OM's magic? Not really. If Oatmeal wants financial security she needs to sit down with H and make a financial plan that both can stick to it and need to look at their spending behaviors in order to change them. Discipline and responsibility will bring the financial security that Oatmeal needs.

3)
OM will solve Oatmeal's financial problems. Wooooooooooooow! What a fantastic OM! But there is something wrong with this picture......

a) OM is very selfish, he did not care about getting involve with a MW even though he is married.
b) OM lies and betrays his W as well as encourages Oatmeal to lie and betray her H.

A + B = OM is not trustworthy because he is a selfish liar who shows no integrity nor morals.

c) OM shows his best side to Oatmeal so he can continue using her on his f*****d up game. He doesn't show Oatmel his bad side.
d) OM is spending lots of money in Oatmeal because he knows it is one of Oatmeal's needs. But, where is this money coming from? Such a wonderful OM! He makes lots of money to satisfy Oatmeal and his W!!!!!!!!!!! or is it that OM is incurring in debt to continue the A? Possibly so, but OM is a liar. Therefore, OM won't tell Oatmeal about where the money they spend is coming from because she needs financial security. Besides, what kind of financial security can a man who likes to go and spend money with OW can give? Mmmmmmmmh, I guess OM doesn't like to save money either because he chooses to spend it with Oatmeal, the OW. Will he do it again if married to Oatmeal? Very likely. There is something wrong here.

Formula:
A (selfish OM without interity) +B (liar OM) +C (OM hides his best side) + D ( OM might be spending more than he makes to satisfy Oatmeal) = DISASTER ON FUTURE M with Oatmeal, GUILT ON OATMEAL FOR DECEIVING HER HUSBAND AND NOT GIVING HIM A CHANCE TO SATISFY HER NEEDS, FINANCIAL TROUBLE WITH OM & POSSIBLY ANOTHER AFFAIR ON BOTH SIDES. BUT MOST IMPORTANT REGRET, WHEN Oatmeal and OM divorce because Oatmeal found out OM is not what she thought he was, she will wonder why she left her H who was a better man. By then it would be so late.
I guess OM is not that fantastic after all. OM is only Oatmeal's fantasy. Real OM is a monster.

Run away from it, smells like disaster, pain, shame, guilt, regrets, etc. .

I will write more later about the career and sex issues. I tell you this based on my experience with my FWW and I, a FWH. Start by thinking about what I wrote.

GOOD LUCK

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: janei ]</small>

Hello oatmeal,

Welcome to MB.I am sorry you are here due to Infidelity.It always saddens me to see one more newcomer,on either side of the fence.But yet,the numbers keep growing and growing.

Listen,everything you said in your first post is practically verbatim for what most WS's say.You must know that,on some level,if you have actually been reading here as long as you claim.

You are undoubtedly caught up in this infatuation with this OM and guess what? He is not the answer to your problems.Yes he may be looking like Prince Charming right now but take a cold hard look at what he is doing: he is cheating on his wife.He is now leaving her for what he claims is transcendence? Give me a break. Sorry but that is a line of bull.More WS script talk.

Isn't it possible that during his D he will NOT be so financially stable? Unless he is extremely wealthy,he will have to pay alimony if not also child support(don't know if there are poor children involved here).Did you know that statistically speaking,your liason has a less than 3% chance of ending up in a long term marriage? So you might say,"We will be in that 3%".But are you willing to stand for a marriage or relationship born from the extreme pain and suffering of other's for your own(and OM's) selfish gains? Is this how you treat people in the world?

Your feelings for your H will never come around as long as OM is around and "waiting" for you to also give up your marriage.And don't be fooled that he is just divorcing because it was so over long ago in his own marriage.He IS waiting.

Did you ever talk to your H about your sexual needs? What is it that your H cannot possibly do for you in that area? Have you truly given him a chance? Now that you have had the proverbial "illicit,adulterous sex" with this OM you are no doubt comparing,and of course,OM must be so much more "exciting" since this kind of sexual encounter is forbidden and the thrill of secrecy and chase fuels it all.Isn't that right?

Do you know how many people like you leave their spouses only to be entrapped in the same situation they are in now months and years later on? The problem isn't with your H oatmeal,it is YOU.Wherever you go,there go your problems.

In order for you and your H to really,honestly have any chance here,you have to tell the OM to go away,never contact you again and get to Marriage counseling.With this OM in any way shape or form hanging around,you do not have a chance.And,you will never know how great your marriage could really be,with an HONEST,SELFLESS man if you don't give him all of your time.

I sincerely hope you make some good decisions from here on out.Your H didn't deserve what you did to him but he does deserve to know if this marriage can be saved.At least try.Or, be completely cold hearted and take off.It's your choice.I hope you do the right thing.Not many people do anymore just so they can be "happy".

Good luck to you.

O

Well done Janei <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't post much, but as a BH, I do have one thing to say to WS:

Don't stay with your BS out of guilt or obligation. You are doing them no favors!

We only get this one chance at life, as do you. I have no desire to spend my life with someone who'd really rather be somewhere else, with someone else.

I can tell you that I did not want my WW to "take one for the team" by staying with me if I was not truly able to be the spouse she wanted. How unfulfilling is that? I wanted her to want me because I completed her, not because of the guilt of her betrayal.

I also did not want her to come to a point where she felt as if she'd martyred herself for me, or to "make amends". The mere idea that she'd given up some connection or love that I simply could not give her, all because she felt she owed it to the kids,or to me, makes me chilled.

So, 31 and oatmeal, you really have to ask yourself: is reconciliation to assuage your guilt, or because you truly love and respect your spouse and you desperately want them in your lives?

Then, ask yourself if you were on the receiving end, what would you want.

What you OWE your spouses is amends. That does not mean you "sacrificing" that one true love of your life or whatever. It means you owe them respect and dignity, and love. You've betrayed them, caused their self esteem to rupture, and robbed them of the opportunity to have someone honestly and wholly love them. This is no small order. The time you were in your A is time they will never, ever get back. It's gone and done. This time that you are ricocheting back and forth is also their time that you are wasting. Respect that. Give your spouse the dignity you seek for yourself. Do it with love - even if the intimate spousal love is gone, you can still love them as a fellow human being.

No children from either marriage??


All I could say would be repeating some things people already wrote.

You just think you know OM; you can know him ONLY if you live with him for a while...

Financial reasons?
I always feel despise when people stay or leave for that... and it never brings happiness.

I too am trying to end an EA, which has lasted on and off for 3 years. It is funny how you can see others situations so much more clearly! I just want to tell you that MONEY DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS! My husband is very well off and my ex-lover was not. Try to think about the kind of foundation you would be building this new relationship on. It is full of lies. How could either of you ever trust one another? You both are justifying your affairs--who is to say that it won't happen again? Have you seen the statistics on second marriages? THis relationship is not one to lose your marriage on. It sounds like you respect and deeply love your husband. It is impossible to feel attracted to your husband at this point in the game. Go for trying towards the relationship that is worth the effort. Thankfully, we have alot of places to go for support now. I had my first phone conversation with Steve Harley and I feel more positive and understood than I ever have. Do what I am trying to do--focus on NOT LYING, stopping the immoral affair, start respecting yourself and work on trying to help yourself. Read my story if you want in a previous GQII and maybe we can help eachother.

I too am trying to end an EA, which has lasted on and off for 3 years. It is funny how you can see others situations so much more clearly! I just want to tell you that MONEY DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS! My husband is very well off and my ex-lover was not. Try to think about the kind of foundation you would be building this new relationship on. It is full of lies. How could either of you ever trust one another? You both are justifying your affairs--who is to say that it won't happen again? Have you seen the statistics on second marriages? THis relationship is not one to lose your marriage on. It sounds like you respect and deeply love your husband. It is impossible to feel attracted to your husband at this point in the game. Go for trying towards the relationship that is worth the effort. Thankfully, we have alot of places to go for support now. I had my first phone conversation with Steve Harley and I feel more positive and understood than I ever have. Do what I am trying to do--focus on NOT LYING, stopping the immoral affair, start respecting yourself and work on trying to help yourself. Read my story if you want in a previous GQII and maybe we can help eachother.

I too am trying to end an EA, which has lasted on and off for 3 years. It is funny how you can see others situations so much more clearly! I just want to tell you that MONEY DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS! My husband is very well off and my ex-lover was not. Try to think about the kind of foundation you would be building this new relationship on. It is full of lies. How could either of you ever trust one another? You both are justifying your affairs--who is to say that it won't happen again? Have you seen the statistics on second marriages? THis relationship is not one to lose your marriage on. It sounds like you respect and deeply love your husband. It is impossible to feel attracted to your husband at this point in the game. Go for trying towards the relationship that is worth the effort. Thankfully, we have alot of places to go for support now. I had my first phone conversation with Steve Harley and I feel more positive and understood than I ever have. Do what I am trying to do--focus on NOT LYING, stopping the immoral affair, start respecting yourself and work on trying to help yourself. Read my story if you want in a previous GQII and maybe we can help eachother.

I too am trying to end an EA, which has lasted on and off for 3 years. It is funny how you can see others situations so much more clearly! I just want to tell you that MONEY DOES NOT BUY HAPPINESS! My husband is very well off and my ex-lover was not. Try to think about the kind of foundation you would be building this new relationship on. It is full of lies. How could either of you ever trust one another? You both are justifying your affairs--who is to say that it won't happen again? Have you seen the statistics on second marriages? THis relationship is not one to lose your marriage on. It sounds like you respect and deeply love your husband. It is impossible to feel attracted to your husband at this point in the game. Go for trying towards the relationship that is worth the effort. Thankfully, we have alot of places to go for support now. I had my first phone conversation with Steve Harley and I feel more positive and understood than I ever have. Do what I am trying to do--focus on NOT LYING, stopping the immoral affair, start respecting yourself and work on trying to help yourself. Read my story if you want in a previous GQII and maybe we can help eachother.

Oatmeal,

I guess I am going to repeat what others have said. But I liked Uphill's take on it.

You have stated that your H is inferior because he does not make alot of money.

You have stated the OM is much better in bed.

I am sure hearing those things just about ripped your H's guts out. But, let's ignore him for a moment and focus only on you and your happiness.

First, there are wealthier men than OM out there, so why settle for him? If wealth is what you seek, then don't marry OM when you get rid of your H. If wealth is what you need you might consider doing what Anna Nicole Smith did. Mary an 89 year old man, and wait for him to die. It almost worked for her.

Seriously, if wealth is your measure of a man, then don't mess around find someone really wealthy and do your best to hold to him. I am not sure what the will take, as you will have competition and once he figures out that you are mostly interested in his money, he will KNOW he has you so he can play around or ignore you as he sees fit.

Now for the bedroom issue. This is tough. Good sex is great. Great sex is Good. However, I would guess that OM is only good because he practices and I am guessing he will continue to practice and learn new things. That will require someone other than yourself because he already knows all of your tricks in bed. Again, I would doubt he is the best, and I would doubt that he would feel much compunction about continuing to try out new women. We know marriage means little to him: yours or his.

So this may be a problem unless you two are going to have an open marriage so that when he is out trying someone new, you can widen your search for the best sex possible.

So it seems to me if you go with OM you are settling, because he is NOT the wealthiest nor is he the best in bed, further to be the best you will have to share your bed and new H with other women.

But, if these two things are your major decision points I suppose you should dump your H. He is unlikely to ever be a huge success unless he is still a young man and mid-30's is young. Given todays retirement situation he has roughly 35 years to accumulate a retirement plan. Then it is possible that he may become a bit wealthier.

As for the sex, well he doesn't have much experience. From what you said neither of you explored your sexuality much, of course you could teach him all of the new trick you learned from OM. But that might be too easy.

Finally, you have admitted that the money issues are yours as well, that won't change. Men get really tired of pouring money into woman that cannot apreciate it or manage it.

So let's cut to the chase. You will NEVER be able to cut these events from your life. Your ONLY chance at redemption rests with your H. Your affair has warped your perspective, as you should have figured out from reading her for a couple of years. Further, you do your H no favors by your outlook on things. You have set impossible goals for him.

So the decision is yours. I don't think you two are doomed to be incompatible in bed, IF he is the only one you are in bed with. I don't think not having a savings especially since you helped to spend the money is crucial at mid-30's.

But, I do think there currently is a deep incompatibility in your value systems and how you view marriage and what you expect from your spouses. That you will have to decide.

IF you decide that perhaps your moral values and what you value in men is a bit "off plumb" we can help. We can even help you work on your marriage IF you decide that.

But, frankly if your main criteria for a male is his pay check and how good he is in bed, I don't think I can offer you much. Further, I feel sorry for you, because you will NEVER be satisfied and you will NEVER bring to a relationship what a man who has money and can and does sleep with whomever he wishes will need. Hence, it is unlikely you will find a relationship that will last or actually protect you. The money will move on with the man.

I look forward to hearing you thoughts on this.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Thank you, all, for such thorough and very helpful responses. I have gone down and read and re-read them. You make many points that I cannot argue with.

Just to offer some more information, as some of you asked....

Not that it changes anything, but for those who asked about MM's financial status, he is extremely wealthy, certainly within the upper five percentile, income-wise. I realize this probably makes my behavior that much more repugnant. No, he hasn't showered me with gifts and fancy things. I'm not the diamonds/fur coat kind of person, anyway. No, what he has expressed is a deep desire to allow me to take my career to the level I have always wanted to take it. I cannot do this with H because it would require too much capital upfront and too much lost wages. The reality is, I'm in a profession in which I'm dependent on the health/fitness of my body; I'm literally one minor injury away from being unemployed. Taking my career to this new level would ensure I'd have income earning ability independent of whether my body "burns out."

I have known MM for over five years; work is what brought us into close, very regular proximity. It's without question that there was always a "chemistry" there, but we remained 100% professional and above board in our conduct.... until fall of 2003. That's when MM slowly began to allow certain behaviors to slip. I initially didn't think anything of them, as he'd behave this way in front of his W, who thought nothing of it. In fact, due to the fact that MM and I share the same passion for certain athletic activities, W actually referred to me as MM's "playmate," happy to encourage our going off and running or skiing together. Sooner or later, the attraction became too intense to ignore, and... well, you know the rest.

H, in our discussing the state of our M, has himself admitted the distance that had grown between us, and further admits that in time, he feels that he, too, would have had an A, especially given the right person and an ease of opportunity.

H was my first and only boyfriend. I was a nerd and a wallflower, then began dating H while in college. H had a similar dating "history." We were engaged within 4 months of our dating, but due to school were not married for another 3-1/2 years. We were both incredibly insecure and immature -- both of us have admitted to that. But we were, and still are (barring my aggregious behavior of recent) extremely good friends. Part of our discussions have revealed that our distance began especially as the two of us "grew up" into our "true" selves. Not to say this can't be repaired, but without question, we are VERY different people now than we were 14 years ago. Sadly, we both have concluded that we would not likely choose each other as mates if we were only now dating and still single.

All of that said, our history together, coupled with the fact that we still love and care for each other -- get along fantastically, is what helps us wish to stay married.

As for MM, to be honest, he represents everything I always envisioned my life to be when I was a dreamy eyed teenager and young adult. I had gone through some major issues as a young adult that had detoured me from pursuing these dreams -- places to see, where to live, the way to live my daily life. I had developed a severe eating disorder, and much of my M, particularly the early years, was very much veiled under the suffocating distraction of the disorder. As I finally recovered, I found myself back in touch with those original dreams and aspirations. I began to realize how few of those would ever be realized in my current situation. It was a disapointment, to be sure -- a HUGE disappointment, actually, but I was just in the process of learning to accept this when along came MM's seductions. And along with the A, the realization of how much his life, interests and lifestyle matched these long-dormant visions of mine. Looking back, I know exactly why I fell so hard.

And yes, I accept complete responsibility on my end, in terms of the fact that H and I are still not financially sound. I said as much in my original post. I was simply making the point that H's bouncing from career to career -- including two firings during the course of our M -- only contributed to feelings of fear and insecurity on my part (justified or not).

Anyway, I probably only sound like I'm rationalizing. And ungrateful for what I have. I don't mean to. I'm just so confused and emotionally drained -- even though this is all my doing and all my fault. I do appreciate all that you have given me, advice-wise.

I cannot totally cut all contact from MM just yet; as it is the DDay caused a major financial hit as I had to give up certain business assocations that were too "at risk" (i.e., too likely to put me in contact with W). We NEED all the income from me that I can get, and I'm not in a profession in which clients/business comes easily. Hopefully, in time, I will be able to do away with any business related to MM. In the meantime, I have had all of four exchanges with him since DDay: 2 brief phone chats and 2 emails (both CC:d to H).

I will hang in there, and I remain hopeful that things will become easier in time. What a horrible, tangled web I have woven.

oatmeal

Sorry for the double-reply, I just wanted to add that, thankfully, there are no children involved -- neither MM nor I have any children. W does have a son -- fully grown and himself married -- from a previous M.

oatmeal

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot totally cut all contact from MM just yet; </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">More fog speak...

Run away. This other man is poison.

Total strangers can see where you are wrong in your resaoning. Your spouse sees it, even if his reaction is unpalletable due to his involvement.


You should talk with my spouse, or ANY other recovering or recovered FWW. You will find out a great MANY sickening realities about the OM.

Don't believe me? You desperately need to look up the psychiatric definition of Scotoma.

No one here is judging you. We have all in one way or another been in this situation. But please consider that not ONE case in these forums has been really different from the others. They all follow the same patterns. (sad as that is).

oatmeal:

I posted 2 one of your other versions of this thread. I saw your reply here, though, so I assume it's getting more play than the other thread. I hope you look up my reply 2 you there, though.

I have more comments about your latest post:

"No, what he has expressed is a deep desire to allow me to take my career to the level I have always wanted to take it."

Why do you need either one of these guys? Your career is about YOU and what YOU can do. Not about what others can do 2 "complete you". You're describing what David Schnarch, author of "Passionate Marriage" calls "borrowed functioning" or "mirrored identity" - what leads people 2 say things like "we bring out the best in each other" Bull feathers. YOU bring out the best in yourself.

"I cannot do this with H because it would require too much capital upfront and too much lost wages."

Make the capital yourself. It will mean far more if you do.

"The reality is, I'm in a profession in which I'm dependent on the health/fitness of my body;"

Fine. What does that have 2 do with the OM's wealth and your H's lack of wealth??

"I'm literally one minor injury away from being unemployed."

Same question.

"Taking my career to this new level would ensure I'd have income earning ability independent of whether my body "burns out.""

Sounds like you're planning on using the OM. Sounds like he's happy 2 "pay for" sex with you. Do you mind being his prosti2te?

"well, you know the rest."

And I know it so well that I didn't need 2 quote your paragraph preceding this statement here. What you described was a series of bad choices and an inability 2 control your basic urges. You're an intelligent person. I think you are better than that. Or you can be if you want 2.

"H, in our discussing the state of our M, has himself admitted the distance that had grown between us, and further admits that in time, he feels that he, too, would have had an A, especially given the right person and an ease of opportunity."

He's trying 2 appease you so you will choose him. He's trying 2 take some of the blame for you having chosen 2 have an A and betray him. We all do that. I know I did. Even2ally, though, he will realize that he had nothing 2 do with your choice 2 have an A, and that regardless of the "growing apart" that happened over the years, the simple fact is that he didn't betray you.

"All of that said, our history together, coupled with the fact that we still love and care for each other -- get along fantastically, is what helps us wish to stay married."

And this is probably enough. It's real. Your relationship with the OM is not.

"As for MM, to be honest, he represents everything I always envisioned my life to be when I was a dreamy eyed teenager and young adult."

But he can never be that vision. Neither can your H. Only YOU can be what YOU envisioned your life 2 be. This "representation" is entirely in your head, though the OM is consciously or otherwise (doesn't matter) taking cruel advantage of it by pretending 2 fulfill this "prophecy" or whatever you'd call this vision.

"I had gone through some major issues as a young adult that had detoured me from pursuing these dreams -- places to see, where to live, the way to live my daily life."

And what you describe after this statement tells me that you deal poorly with either/or choices and the grieving of lost alternatives that an emotionally healthy person must make throughout their lives.
"Anyway, I probably only sound like I'm rationalizing."

Yes, you do. And that's because that's what you are doing. It's normal. It isn't healthy, though. Part of the process, though.

"I cannot totally cut all contact from MM just yet;"

Sorry. I don't buy this at all.

"as it is the DDay caused a major financial hit as I had to give up certain business assocations that were too "at risk" (i.e., too likely to put me in contact with W)."

This is a consequence of the poor choice you made 2 get involved with the OM in the first place. The sooner you can face these "hits" and accept them, the sooner you can recover YOURSELF, and maybe your M as well.

"Hopefully, in time, I will be able to do away with any business related to MM. In the meantime, I have had all of four exchanges with him since DDay: 2 brief phone chats and 2 emails (both CC:d to H)."

And each time you start over. And each time your H is reminded of your divided loyalties and affections, he loses some of his desire 2 rebuild with you. We've seen this happen so many times here.

"I will hang in there, and I remain hopeful that things will become easier in time. What a horrible, tangled web I have woven."

Ask Just Learning 2 tell you his story about the difference between "simple" and "easy". It's a great story, and a great lesson. Your next course of action is simple, but it's not easy. It will not get easier with time, it will get harder.

-ol' 2long

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Hi

Sprint's spouse here - he asked me to read your post and respond.

Have you talked to your husband about getting work to help make up for the loss of income? What's more important - financial stability or the marriage - finances will come.

Are you in danger of loosing shelter? Can you downsize? Do you have children? It's not the end of the world to have to downsize - esp if it means saving the marriage.

Listen. When i was in the fog I rationalized everything. You are doing the same thing. You are convinced that you never had anything with your husband of substance - you can't see it anymore. It's there - you have to get out of the fog and see it. I actually convinced myself that I married Sprint for the wrong reasons that I was indeed to young, and I rushed into his arms for shelter and not love

HAHAHA - come on now - that was the fog speaking - I was in a perfectly SOUND frame of mind for the first 4 years of marriage, they were WONDERFUL years, that were full of love and promise. But last year - I couldn't see that at all. I actually instead remembered EVERY negative moment and amplified - to be honest - I didn't remember a good moment...even my wedding appeared to not be as happy as it was. And it is the happiest day of my life - negativity ruined that memory for me during that time.

The remorse you feel for hurting him - IS because you love him and for GOODNESS SAKE'S GIRL - stop all contact with the OM - is money THAT important to regreting ending something that MIGHT be the best thing you have ever had - but the OM has BLINDED you to it?

Of course OM is helping make reasons to keep you in contact - BUSINESS is a GREAT excuse - if I could tell you HOW many times I tried to end it with my OM, but tried to remain with minimal contact, and he said he understood with a tear, but each conversation had the underlying tones of this is so hard, and I miss you and dragging me right back in.

The longer you stay in contact with OM - the less chance you have of your marriage. And honestly - you haven't had a REAL relationship with OM - you live in a fantasy world where you can ***** about your Spouses, make eachother feel great. I know - I've been there. What happens when you can't ***** about them anymore, when now - you are annoyed with eachother - do you really think you guys will stick it out? He left his wife in bad times for you....you don't think he will leave you in bad times for a OW? You don't think you may leave him one day? Leaving your husband now without trying, you are setting yourself up for failure in the next relationship - with another OM.

Atleast try NC with OM for a GOOD period of time - that means cutting back on income - then you will know for sure which you want. The poison of the OM hinders judgement for any good decisions...once again I know this from PERSONAL experience.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> want to think that my feelings for H will somehow come around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THEY ARE THERE - they wont need to "come around" just ditch the OM and give your H a chance. If you didn't have feelings for your husband you wouldn't be in such agony...you would leave.

Your spouse is sticking around for you - that is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE...The OM is leaving his wife - makes you wonder - is he capable of unconditional love? Are you? YOU CAN BE - but not by making bad choices. You married your husband once upon a time because you LOVED him - dig deep and remember that. It's in there - deep down - dig for it -see it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for MM, to be honest, he represents everything I always envisioned my life to be when I was a dreamy eyed teenager and young adult. I had gone through some major issues as a young adult that had detoured me from pursuing these dreams -- places to see, where to live, the way to live my daily life. I had developed a severe eating disorder, and much of my M, particularly the early years, was very much veiled under the suffocating distraction of the disorder. As I finally recovered, I found myself back in touch with those original dreams and aspirations. I began to realize how few of those would ever be realized in my current situation. It was a disapointment, to be sure -- a HUGE disappointment, actually, but I was just in the process of learning to accept this when along came MM's seductions. And along with the A, the realization of how much his life, interests and lifestyle matched these long-dormant visions of mine. Looking back, I know exactly why I fell so hard.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow - you know what - I look at my OM now - and he is ugly, he is a loser - he is...and if I showed you a pic of H you would be like - wth?? Cause H is handsome and loving and supportive. OM has had numerous affairs on his wife, and no matter how much his wife tries to work on their marraige - he doesn't respond. On top of which - he found a married woman to help him get out of his marriage - talk about a GEM! Yeah yeah - I am not much better - but still to this day - based on the hobby group H still attends - his attitude has not changed and he degrates his wife. even though they are going through a tough time, as I called and TOLD her as part of my healing process as she was an aquantance and I owed her an apology. And you know what - she forgave me - can you belive that? Anyways -heading off topic.

Dreamy eyed teenagers and young adults are immature - guess who I related back to while having my affair? The person I was in my late teens, early twenties - the single, fun loving party girl...why? cause it made OM look fantastic. THAT IS NOT WHO I AM, NOR IS IT THE LIFE I HAVE MADE FOR MYSELF >>> why are you looking back? LOOK FORWARD - don't look at what you once wanted?


You aren't rationalizing - you my dear are still DEEP in the fog - and honey - there is NO WAY OUT unless you cut off all contact - I am sorry, you may love your job, but that is a consequence of your action. You chose poorly, and you will have ALOT of concequences...this is just the beginning. Running to OM,will make things worse. Cut him off, leave your job, commit to your H as he has commited to you - don't be blind to the love he has for you

Anyways - sorry if any of this offended you - as a FWW - your fog talk just made me pretty passionate about what I was saying, and I am very good at rambling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Best of luck to you - but you wont make any progress in your marriage as long as you stay in that job. Sorry.

-ds

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: deeplysorry ]</small>