Well - It has definitely been awhile. My threads seem to get lost in la la land and I kind of gave up posting for a while. That in addition to the fact that there is nothing new to report - basically. I follow everyones stories and my heart breaks for all the newbies and I try to hang out in the Recovery forum mostly.

Here is my problem. It seems like lately that I have been feeling such overwhelming anger and sadness and my thoughts have been kind of going towards divorce as a solution. I have not really felt that way in a while and I thought I was past all this, but guess not.

My husband says and does all the right things, is accountable for his time, holds me when I cry, tells me he loves me, apologizes at least once a week, and is spending way more time at home than he ever has during our entire marriage. The problem is that I feel nothing about any of this. I don't believe him and I don't believe in him. I have really begun to question my love for him. And now we are about to go on a vacation for the first time in years and I'm stressed out about it. Maybe because the last time we went he was checking his secret email account since he had reconnected with his ex-fiance.

I know part of the problem is me. I know he is still withholding information from me about so many things. For example, I found out on my own that he was in fact having an EA with his ex-fiance and even planned to meet her in a different state two years prior to his EA/PA with his co-worker. He lies about that even though I have proof in an email sent by her (she thought it was to him). He lies about when the PA started, he lies about how frequently they met, he lies about telling her he loved her, and he lies about how it ended. How can you trust someone that lies about these things even if they are in the past - is it me????

I think the other problem I have is that I expected something a little more spectacular from him in regards to saving the marriage. He only puts forth the effort when I push and he doesn't seem to get that he needs to work a little harder sometimes. Up to this point he only does the things that he should have been doing all along - helping with the kids and the housework, etc.. - and he thinks that I should be grateful for it. Nothing extra - no cards, flowers, romantic surprises, nothing.

My biggest hurdle is that in addition to all of this, he still tells me that the reason he had his affair is because I was unhappy - WTF does that mean???? So now that I am truly unhappy, DUH, is he going to have another affair. All of these things he was doing occurred after a particularly rough point in our marriage and we had both decided to refocus our attention on the family. Have another child and me quit my stressful job. After he started "dating" his co-worker he wasn't around much so of course I was unhappy. I just do not get it and I don't know if I can live with what he is telling me.

Please help me move in a more positive direction if you can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Of course you are unhappy - he is still not telling you the truth. That is an absolute necessity in recovery. I would insist on it.

Believer - I have tried and tried, but I get no where. He still insists that he has told me the truth. Well I have letters to her that talk about his "special" love for her and that reference conversations they had about starting over. He said he felt complete with her, blah, blah, blah...He claims that he just wrote those and never sent them. I say bullsh*t. He won't read them and he refuses to budge from his original story - doesn't seem to matter what I say. Unfortunately our first and only MC said that I didn't need these details - we no longer see her. Why can't I get it through his head that I want the truth even if it is painful. I've told him in many different ways and now I just feel hopeless about recovery.

No wonder you don't feel hopeful. Sorry about your MC, but honesty is very important. I suggest that you talk about this with your spouse soon, like tonight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer wrote:
Of course you are unhappy - he is still not telling you the truth. That is an absolute necessity in recovery. I would insist on it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believer YEP! YEP!
Felt like I was looking in the mirror when I read some of this post.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SG - you need these details to move along, so there are no secret doors behind you, no wondering. In addition, you need these details because it is important for you WS to own up to his actions and not just pretend they didn't happen. Denial just paves the way for reoccurrance.

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Tom Joad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SpouseGuess:
My biggest hurdle is that in addition to all of this, he still tells me that the reason he had his affair is because I was unhappy</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And .... did you bust out laughing???

You should have, coz this is a very silly thing he said.

He did not even take ownership for HIS unhappiness which led to HIS affair....

This is a perfect example of marital fusion ....

STEP ONE ... refute refuse and turn away any notion that you control your husband with your feelings. He cannot be held responsible as long as he flips his self control over to you. And, you cannot say any loss of control on your part is because of him.

As soon as YOU own your own stuff ... you set the stage for him to own his own stuff.

Make this a working principle in your recovery.

How to do this?

Say to your husband (with love, holding his hand) ...

"Let's both take ownership for ourselves.

I accept responsibility for my decisions (good and bad)

at the same time

I release you of any responsibility for my decisions.

I will accept no ownership of your decisions.

This gives both of us the responsibility and the power to grow and change.

Does this seem reasonable to you?"

Timing is everything .... have this discussion when you are both relaxed, un-stressed and not under any time restraints.

Go out together for a long lunch. And this is a message of LOVE you are sending, not a message of rejection.

Pep

I know that and you guys know that, but how can I MAKE him tell me anything that he doesn't want to??? You hit the nail on the head TJ when you said he is in denial of his actions. He cannot face them himself and he is taking the easy way out. How can I make him see how destructive this is? It is affecting my physical and emotional wellbeing.

OT - I got a phone call from my dr office today and I got it too late to call back. I have health issues now and I am sure it is all related. So now I get the stress of waiting until tomorrow before I find out what is wrong. Nothing is going my way. Anyone care to say a prayer for a despondent(?) stranger. I need all I can get.

Thanks for the replies Believer and TJ - it means alot to me - especially on a day like today.

ooops - posted at the same time as you Pepperband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I am too stressed out tonight to have a conversation like that even if my FWH was here. He is out of town and he doesn't return until tomorrow. Maybe our "vacation" together will give me an opening like that.

And I didn't laugh, but my jaw did drop to the floor in utter disbelief. My response to him was "and you thought this would make me happy?" (shaking my head)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My response to him was "and you thought this would make me happy?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are missing the point.

He did not have an A to make you happy.

He evidently was trying to escape what was (for him .... but he's not owning it yet) an unhappy situation.

I suspect one of your H's top 3 EN's is admiration.

He measures himself by complimentary remarks and admiration .... from YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

am I close?

Pep

Pep - you are dead on as usual. It took me a while to figure that out - the admiration thing. I believe that is what she gave him (my sister says that she stroked his ego). Guess I'm not as wise as you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And yes - my response was sarcastic because I KNEW it was his unhappiness he was escaping from. How do I get him to see that more clearly. Although maybe he does tell me that when he says - I just wanted to make you happy and I felt I couldn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Although maybe he does tell me that when he says - I just wanted to make you happy and I felt I couldn't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">voila'

how are you planning to use this information?

pep

Am open to any and all suggestions. Despite the sad number of posts to my name, I am an avid reader and follow advice that fits my situation. Got any ideas - I'm just too tired to think!

No one has a suggestion, 2X4, or just words of encouragement???

Hi Spouseguess,

Remember me? You pulled me out of lurkdom before, now Tireman and you have done this again.

I recall your story as being similar to mine in the beginning, as you had found proof and he had still denied over and over..My H has never admitted and I was jealous when yours did..

And now, I just know our H's must be related somehow, Mine always says that about me "not being happy". That was one of the reasons that he went off about me "to himself" and I taped him saying such awful things.. It was because i was unhappy...this seems to be turned around in almost any discussion that if I "could only be happy", everything would be okay.

And this stuff is sooo me:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think the other problem I have is that I expected something a little more spectacular from him in regards to saving the marriage. He only puts forth the effort when I push and he doesn't seem to get that he needs to work a little harder sometimes. Up to this point he only does the things that he should have been doing all along - helping with the kids and the housework, etc.. - and he thinks that I should be grateful for it. Nothing extra - no cards, flowers, romantic surprises, nothing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..
and him.

I even tried to explain to him earlier in our "recovery" (if you can really call it that) that I have to beg, plead and/or push for every little concession from him. This leaves me feeling more resentful and wanting more xtras from him!!! I am supposed to be grateful when he stays up til 10:15 with me, after I begged,pleaded, cajoled, demanded time with him - and the kids weren't in bed and not bothering us until 9:45 or 10:00 .

Not meaning to threadjack, just really do understand your pain in all of this. And the still not getting the truth. Well I try to tell myself that nobody really knows but the WS, it really is up to them to let us in on it - And I also am very frustrated with that feeling of non-trust. I think it was Carenmc on a recent thread that said she didn't believe or not believe anything that WS said. That is how I am, I don't want to think he is automatically lying, but truths (about the important stuff to me) have been extremely rare if not downright nonexistent!!
So I am just ambivilant about an awful lot that comes out of his mouth. This makes for a very strange relationship to me!!Definitely not the M I envisioned. Not trying to live out a fantasy either, I am much too much of a realist for that, just trying to sort out boundaries, how to deal with someone stepping over them and my "hills to die on". Really thinking that lack of intimacy and trust is one of those. But the thing is, my kids didn't get a say in this at all, that is my hardest obstacle. Effecting my kids negatively is the last thing I want to do.

So, sorry for the rambling, but I know these "rocks" and "hard places" - been stuck here awhile, wish H would help me wriggle out. Just thinking though, he has his "rocks" and "hard places" too, so keep trying to throw him a rope.

Good Luck and don't give up posting, I felt the same way, that my posts just got shuffled back. I think the more you post and people get to "know" you and your sitch, the more responses you will get.

JL

.

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: spinning the drain ]</small>