X took our son (3yrs 3 mths old) for three hours (visitation).
I prepared supper and waiting for my little boy to come home.

They came, and X, in front of him, said that our son was very upset, he doesn't want to come home but stay with him. He also said - let's go disscuss here (in front of the house, for I don't invite him in).

I said - I thought we agreed you teach him rules too, our home(s) rules, this is time you bring him back, and I don't see any need to disscuss this. You teach him rules, and make him to respect them.

He said - How can I teach him and make him respect them, HE IS THREEEEE!!!!!

(He meant - he's big enough to decide by himself? he has strong will of his own? or he's too little to tell him what to do? or what??)

DUH!?!?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I said - Once he's 18 he will still have to respect rules of the house he lives in; if you don't teach him that from NOW on, people who will leave with him won't be happy with him, therefore he won't be happy himself either! And you should know this, from your own experience!

AT that time, my little boy cried so much, not wanting to get in.
It broke my heart.
I didn't want to force him to get in, I just said to X - OK, take him with you and bring him tomorrow.

Of course, my X was so unhappy (he doesn't want him for a longer time, all he wants is just to ... I don't know actually what he wants (any idea??)...
X doesn't respect any rule, and I'm so afraid he'll transfer that life style to our son.
One of concerns related to his part of upbringing our son that I don't cope with nor agree with very well...

SO, I kissed my son, and went inside... hidding my real feelings...
Crying so much!

Was I so wrong doing this?
What should have I done?

Please, please your advise!


<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

Please don't spare me! - I want your sincere opinion, critics, advise... to learn more...

BtN,

This is the hard part. When your child becomes the pawn because he has been manipulated by the WS. You realize that your son doesn't want to come home because he thinks (in his own innocent mind) that if he stays with dad, you may come or dad have him more candy or toys..... something like that.

If he has been taken in by the alien and the alien has rights to this child, then you as the other parent, may have to sit and watch this out.

What is in your favor is that the WS can't do this forever. In time your child's wishes and interests will conflict with the A.

You have to be patient for this to happen. For now pray for patience, the safety of your child, a clear mind and a calm heart.

I am sorry you are in this situation. It does happen periodically. More than we want. Just remember it is temporary. Don't bring yourself down to that level. Show your child true love and affection. That is worth more than all the toys in the world (that's what my son told me). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

Thanks, dear Orchid!

I hope this is temporary...
My reaction was... well, I live in fears... how bad influence of his dad could be.. I also have fears that I will make some huge msitakes... so afraid if I'll succeed in raising him to ba a Decent person... So, I had a picture in my mind - my son is e.g. 15 and... he accepted his dad's life style - no rules, no responsibilities...
OK, I know I shouldn't think so far, and many things depends on me... but... sometimes I can't help my fears... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I think I should get him into the house no matter what.
Do you think the same?

Talking about WS... he wrote a message when he got to his place with our son...
A part of it is:
"I think we could have stayed calm and relaxed and you could have invited us both upstairs for a few minutes where his attention would soon be diverted into doing something else. But of course I could have infected your house."

He's right, in a way... BUT he's so intrusive, he wants everything to be his way, as it was when we were together... and I have some boundaries (one of them he doesn't come here), but he doesn't accept and I feel him forcing me to give in, and the more I feel his pushing an dstepping over my boundaries, the more I'm on distance, and away... Makes any sense?

Huh

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

Don't you hate how the kids are affected by all of this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

After reading your second post, I think your X was trying to manipulate you into letting him and using your son to do that.

When you said he is right in a way to his statements about coming into your home.... your right..... he DOES infect your home.

Your home is your sanctuary. It is yours and your sons.

I personally would have taken my child into the house regardless of the screaming.

It reminds me of the times when my daughters were younger (around 3 as a matter of fact!) when I would pick them up from daycare and they wouldn't want to leave.

That cut to the bone!!

But transition is hard for a child. Time has very little meaning in a 3 year olds mind. He knows he is leaving daddy and going to mommy.

He has no concept of how long before he'll see dad.

I guarantee you my kids loved me and wanted to be with me. But they loved "gramma" at daycare too. They had fun with their friends. They didn't want to go.

I picked them up and took them home anyway. They still seem to be fairly well adjusted girls <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My point is...next time, maybe try talking with X while your son walks around the porch or front of the house. Just a minute or two. Then, calmly pick him up, let him say goodbye to dad, and go in the house. If he screams, let him. Be calm and gentle and take him in.

As for your X, it's pretty low to use your son to try and get into your home. It seems like a power thing for him. He's gonna get in there one way or another type of attitude.

One more quick thought...even a child of three understands simple manipulation. If he gets what he wants by screaming...he'll scream next time too. Just something to think about. We're born knowing how to get a specific reaction....a baby learns crying will get attention....smiling will get a smile in return, cooing will get them talked to.

It would be sad if he learned that mom and dad can be played off of each other...without even realizing that is what he's learning.

Agreeing with FIM,

And adding..have you ever watched the movie Hope Floats? There is a scene in there that just breaks my Moms heart every time.

When the Dad goes away at the end..and the little girl is standing at the end of the street screaming..and begging him not to leave her..to take her with..and telling her Mom she hates her..

..and Mom carries her into the house.

Children will sh*t on the person that they KNOW is coming back..and cling to the one who is abandoning them.

So many times..I see sad and frustrated BSs saying I work, and I sweat, and I cook their dinner, and I wipe away their tears..and who do they love? WS.

That's because they can COUNT on you. YOU are a given. The take you for granted because they TRUST you to love them, no strings attached.

Being in a no rules environment..while fun for DS..also probably scared and set him off balance more than just a little. Rules are security..and when your security has been taken away..ALL transition is scary.

So don't take it personally..and don't be manipulated..and yes, next time carry your little screamer lovingly inside where it is warm, safe, and stable..and tuck him into bed snug and tight while he tries to collect his sad little baby self and figure out just how to function in his suddenly unsteady world.

I feel for you, very much.

Noodle

Fim, you inspired me to answer most of your message, hope you don't mind me...

Don't you hate how the kids are affected by all of this?

Breaking my heart... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

After reading your second post, I think your X was trying to manipulate you into letting him and using your son to do that.

Sometimes, I think the same... more often I think that he doesn't think anything... not deeper than 1 mm, not longer then the first wind's swing...
But, yes, he still says he loves me (when he's not with OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ), and 10 days ago he asked me to begin dating <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ...
I don't know how serious he is (not at all, according his continued A), but I do know he wants to have control... as he always had to have...

When you said he is right in a way to his statements about coming into your home.... your right..... he DOES infect your home.

What I meant was - he's right that I should have calmed our son, divert his attention, then get him into the house...
Didn't mean he's right he infects my home... although I see your point, and in a way, yes, he's right about that too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I personally would have taken my child into the house regardless of the screaming.


And you are right.
I did made mistake, I was so childlish, stupid, didn't think clearly..
Well, only 'consolation' is - I'd Never repeat this!

But transition is hard for a child. Time has very little meaning in a 3 year olds mind. He knows he is leaving daddy and going to mommy. He has no concept of how long before he'll see dad.


Yes, and I am aware of that... and that part hurts more then all crapola I went through with his dad...
My parents have been married for almost 50 years, they still love and care for each other, I had a nice childhood, full of love, support, respect, still wonderfull parents... and I KNOW what that meant for me... and my son won't have it... will be torn... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Yes, I know I should get rid of this feeling of guilt... won't help my son, just opposite...

They had fun with their friends. They didn't want to go.

I know my son loves me, and he knows I love him and he's a world to me/
He loves his dad too...
And... his dad is always fun, a couple of hours... I'm fun too, but daily routine life, teachin responsibilities, behavior... not fun as with dad...
(My X made almost addicted my son to play games on the comp... I cannot make him not to do that.. So, there are no games here... and that's so boring sometimes with mom, right?)

My point is...next time, maybe try talking with X while your son walks around the porch or front of the house. Just a minute or two. Then, calmly pick him up, let him say goodbye to dad, and go in the house. If he screams, let him. Be calm and gentle and take him in.

It happened before a few times, and I did as you say... except tonight, stupid me.

As for your X, it's pretty low to use your son to try and get into your home. It seems like a power thing for him. He's gonna get in there one way or another type of attitude.

You wouldn't believe what kind of excuses he gets to get his way...

One more quick thought...even a child of three understands simple manipulation. If he gets what he wants by screaming...he'll scream next time too. Just something to think about. We're born knowing how to get a specific reaction....a baby learns crying will get attention....smiling will get a smile in return, cooing will get them talked to.
It would be sad if he learned that mom and dad can be played off of each other...without even realizing that is what he's learning.

You are absolutely right!
I am always consistent disciplining him, and tonight... lost control...
Yes, this was a mixed message to my son... Usually, when he wants something that he shouldn't have, I explain why he cannot get that, and if he cries I say - my sunshine, you have two choices: we can play something else, or you can cry; please chose (I teach him he always has options in his life to choose from, of course I give (so far) those options <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )...
I'll get back to consistency and hope this won't leave much harm...?

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

***THWACK*** (that's the sound of me boppin' you on the head)

Stop beating yourself up over one 10 minute encounter!

I knew what you really meant about the mistake...that was my own sarcasm about him infecting your home. It's exactly what I told dork once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm hoping I didn't come across wrong in the post. I can't tell you how many times in the last 10 years as a mom that I've gone... uh, duh, shoulda coulda woulda done THAT differently.

Your not stupid (THWACK) you're not childish (THWACK), you're a loving and caring mom who is dealing with a crappy no-win situation.

If we're gonna talk about stupid and childish parental behaviours... I've got three to mess up on to your one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I bet I've got you beat on that!!

Better yet...let's put this where it belongs...on the ones who get to be the fun and unrestrictive parents. The ones who don't have to deal daily with the repercussions of letting the kids have it all for the three hours they have them. The ones who don't have to be strong and stay the course to provide the stability and constanst love a child needs.

They are the stupid and childish ones!

Thanks, Noodle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope Floats?
No, I guess I should... It must be a good ending, when little girl becomes a big girl, and she gets it all...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
(If I had a little girl, I could expect so... with a boy - I don't know if he'll ever really understand me...)

Children will sh*t on the person that they KNOW is coming back..and cling to the one who is abandoning them. .

So, so true! And from time to time it hurts too...
I do try to 'programm' myself not taking it personally, and I do try to focus just to make my son happy and raise him as properly as I am capable of, but, sometimes, as you can see, it's just too hard to think rationally all the time...

So don't take it personally..and don't be manipulated..and yes, next time carry your little screamer lovingly inside where it is warm, safe, and stable..and tuck him into bed snug and tight while he tries to collect his sad little baby self and figure out just how to function in his suddenly unsteady world.

I won't. I must not.
And all of that I already do, and always will, to be his safe loving warm and heartfull harbour...
Hope I am forgiven for tonight though... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

FIM, thanks for ***THWACK*** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I did deserved it, ANYWAY.

Stop beating yourself up over one 10 minute encounter!

My middle name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm hoping I didn't come across wrong in the post. I can't tell you how many times in the last 10 years as a mom that I've gone... uh, duh, shoulda coulda woulda done THAT differently.

No, you did not, you are just fine.
And when I ask for advise - I never ask to spare me, in any way... i.e. what it helps me is - not sparing me at all...

Your not stupid (THWACK) you're not childish (THWACK), you're a loving and caring mom who is dealing with a crappy no-win situation.

Thanks, but... I do know when I'm smart and when I'm... not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Better yet...let's put this where it belongs...on the ones who get to be the fun and unrestrictive parents. The ones who don't have to deal daily with the repercussions of letting the kids have it all for the three hours they have them. The ones who don't have to be strong and stay the course to provide the stability and constanst love a child needs.
They are the stupid and childish ones!

I just hope my son will think the same... one day... at least when he becomes the parent himself...


Thanks, FIM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />