After 2 days of Plan B, my phone rings this morning - it is the WW. I ignore it. It rings again, and again I ignore the call. The third time I am thinking that there must be some sort of emergency, so I answer the phone. I answered by saying "this better be either an emergency or you are going to tell me you have committed to NC with OM." Neither was the case....she felt that she deserved a chance to respond to the letter, since I left it for her to find in her car after I left her place Sunday night.

Against my better judgement, I agreed to this one meeting, to allow her to respond to the letter. We went to a park to sit down and enjoy the sunny LA afternoon. It was 73 degrees and not a cloud in the sky (just to rub it in a little for all the snowbirds reading this). She proceeded to tell me that she knows that she can't live without me. We talk about her & OM's relationship, and her and I's realtionship, and howshe really doesn't know the OM, she can't this quickly, and how she understands that she is addicted, and much more.

Unfortunately, the old addage "Don't s*** where you sleep" applies to her sitch. She doesn't want to be in a R with the OM, but also would be foolish to give up her residency with only 4 months left. There are far too many reasons to list here, but suffice it to say she would be a fool to quit right now. The opportunity that she has with this current program will never be available again. The entire system of residencies is being reworked, and this is the last year this type of residency will be offered anywhere.

So now she is stuck. She will have to see him professionally, and if she goes in and ends everything cold turkey with the OM, he could retailiate and make her life unpleasant to say the least. So the way that we decided to leave things, at least for now, is I will still move to TX, she will finish her residency, no more sex with the OM, and she will slowly encourage him to go back to his wife. I don't know if that means she will be so annoying that he will be pushed away, or she will gently nudge him in the right direction, or what.

We will still have very minimal contact, and I am approaching this with the utmost caution. I am not opening my heart to her yet, and maybe won't until she moves to TX in July. I guess I will just have to see how sincere she is with all of this.

The thought that I would have nothing to do with her during her affair is what pushed her off of the fence. Plan B really works....anyone here afraid of it should reconsider.

TM

so why you break it ?

WARNING: LemonMan 2' X 4' coming <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


TM:

PLan B did NOT work at all !!!!!!! You just gave her a fix, and that should buy her a few more days. I don't think you "get it" my friend. That is ok, it is tough...we know. Back on the roller coaster again for you. PLease read the stories here, they are all RIDDLED with failure of PLan B WHEN YOU DO WHAT YOU JUST DID. Your WW is not gonna "slowly encourage him to go back to his wife". Come on man, you gotta wipe some of that "fog" off yourslef buddy. Please give me the link to the post on here that shows that that "strategy" ever worked. YOu and I and everyone here knows it doesn't. Hunker back down my friend. I know you want to be happy about these results.....but honestly...stop. You are like the dieter who loses 10 pounds and then eats at an "all you can eat" buffet to celebrate it. YOu are rationalizing your BOUNDARIES again.

Is she still with the OM? If so, there is no FURTHER DEBATE needed on this. GO BACK TO START....BACK DOWN UNDER FOR YOU.


Goodluck, my opinions are in best intentions only.

LM

P.S......2' x 4' safely put back under lock and key. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TM,

I don't hold much hope for this, but I do HOPE I am wrong. The divorce papers are still working their way through the system. OM will make contact and continue to have his cake and eat it too, as he is too poor to file for divorce as he helped your W to do.

Maybe she will wake up, but this is a lot like smoking, it is very very hard to quit by simply cutting down. When stress occurs the rate goes back up.

Nevertheless, you are going to TX as you planned and that is good. Get on with your life. I hope you keep posting because I am very curious to see what your W actually does. I don't think she will be able to cut off the sex, unless she basically tells him to leave her alone. He is her peer right? So why would that harm her schooling if she told him to "back off and leave her alone."

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I agree with LM and RH. Time for a hard plan B. She may in for a surprise when she graduates. Her H won't want to be with her. Plan B slows the drainage of the love bank but it does not end it. The balls in her court. Go dark and stay there.

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

TM

I fell for the same bullpucky your WW is feeding you. I'm sorry, but you need to stick to your plan. She doesn't really "deserve" a chance to negotiate Plan B. I let Fogman manipulate me and it DID NOT WORK. If a simple breakup may jeopardize her residency, there is something not right at that workplace. If she really was ready to come back, she would agree to NC, despite any other circumstance in the entire planet.

This whole thing is awful, and I truly don't want you to take this the wrong way, either, but Plan B cannot be compromised. Maybe you feel stuck at this moment because you two made an "agreement", but take your next available chance (it probably won't be long) and get yourself back to dark NC!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by What AmIDoing?:
<strong> TM

I fell for the same bullpucky your WW is feeding you. I'm sorry, but you need to stick to your plan. She doesn't really "deserve" a chance to negotiate Plan B. I let Fogman manipulate me and it DID NOT WORK. If a simple breakup may jeopardize her residency, there is something not right at that workplace. If she really was ready to come back, she would agree to NC, despite any other circumstance in the entire planet.

This whole thing is awful, and I truly don't want you to take this the wrong way, either, but Plan B cannot be compromised. Maybe you feel stuck at this moment because you two made an "agreement", but take your next available chance (it probably won't be long) and get yourself back to dark NC! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAID:

Hope your doing well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

LM

Life is getting a tiny bit better every day, Lemonman! In retrospect, I have always appreciated your viewpoints, it's just hard when you don't WANT to hear it at that time! Part of that I'm sure was the abuse and addiction mess I've been dealing with for 20 years (can you say "denial"?). I'm planning on getting very very healthy and happy.

TM- Take time to think this over. You have people here that really care about what happens to you.

OK, I knew there would be 2x4's, and some of you are most likely right.

Just to clarify a point, the OM is her superior in athe program she is required to attend as a part of her residency. He has to power to decide how many surgeries she gets to scrub into, if at all. That is why there is a question of how to end things properly for her.

Also, the D process is not really working, because I have yet to be served. Apparently, she has to pay either a sheriff, or a service to serve me, and she contends she will do neither. So I guess it is indefinately stalled. Maybe she will even retract the filing in order to show me she is serious.

I am leaving town no matter what. She agrees this would be best for the both of us. I have explained to her how false recoveries happen. She does not want that either. So whether I am in TX on Plan B, or in TX on Plan A, matters little. I am watching here actions to see if she is serious. I know most here will think I am a fool, but I have to go with my gut on this one. It has been pretty good to me in the past. Worse case scenario is that she continues/elevates the A, and we end up in D. I am not afraid of this outcome either. Sometimes I wonder if I would be better off without her.

So over the next four months or so, the answer will be revealed.....stay tuned!

TM

Unfortunately, as the Plan B Czar, I have to agree. Your Plan B did not work. It was working. The pain being caused to her was starting to reach critical mass. but, then you let the pressure off.

I did the same thing TWICE before I went to a real Plan B. Both times, I was supposd to let her back out of the relationship, while we worked on us. Guess what? Didnt work. Within days, she was foggy again and saying she couldnt do this.

Only when I emant it, when she would try stuff like your WW did, did she finally walk into my house and say that she wanted to come home.

Now, I am going out on a limb here...but I am going to say that your Plan B isnt blown (a little banged up though) ONLY if you shut down immediately. Leave her an email or voicemail (do not talk to her!!). Tell her that you were wrong with the agreement you made. That you love her and that you do want things to work out. But nothing can happen, and you are doing exactly as outlined in the PBL. That you have no choice in order to protect yourself and any chance of this marriage being salvaged. And then...go dark again. And next time, make sure that she corresponds thru a third party when she is ready to go NC with OM. And have that third party prove it!!

I understand what you are saying about her work. But that does not give her a pass to continue in adultery for another 4 months. If she is telling the truth (and she doesnt know if she is...fog), then she wants to be his playtoy for the sake of keeping her residency. So, be there for him in order to protect her job? What does that sound like to you?

But I am more inclined to say that she was panicking. She missed you and didnt want her chocolate frosting leaving before she got to have more of her cake. She was in pain, and she manipulated you into taking the pain away from her for another 4 months. No worries. She can deal with that then.

But until then, guess where the pain gets to reside? That's right....you are the big winner. You get to take the pain. Now, you go off to TX, you talk to her and be there for her...and she continues to see OM. And you worry about it, are upset by it...wondering if she really is keeping her promise of no SF (by the way...no way that is going to happen!!). So, you buy yourself another ticket on the rollercoaster. And your love bank drains somemore.

We are being hard on you because you need it. You need to see that Plan B was working and you have hit it hard. But you can make a quick recovery.

That PBL MUST be adhered to. She has shown NO respect for you by getting into an affair. You let her off the hook, and she will continue to not respect you.

The A must be over before anything else can happen. Recovery can go as slow or fast as the two of you need to go. But, the terms of the PBL are non-negotiable.

That is, unless you like the rollercoaster!!

In His arms.

TM -

I don't envy you at all. I've had a couple of false starts myself and it was sometimes worse than the initial DDay.

I wish you the best of luck with this. Hopefully, she is strong enough to fight this addiction and not relapse.

In reading this, I had a thought... it doesn't fit with your current plan, but here goes anyway.

It seems to me that Plan B in Texas would be MUCH more effective than Plan A in Texas.

I understand the fears about retaliation by her superior...but I wonder if the fact he's her superior might not actually benefit the ending of the A. If she is seriously ready to move forward, ask her if she would be willing to write the NC letter, send it to him registered mail so he has to sign for it and do all the other moving-into-recovery things to make you feel safe.

See, she's a resident. He's employed by the hospital. I can't imagine that would go over well with management. Sure, it might not be good for her either if it became known, but would this man take the chance of HER making the A known?

If the NC letter states she is working on her marriage and all the things a NC letter should state, might he just cut his losses?

I don't know. Just a thought.

Maybe even just bring it up and see what her reaction is. That should tell you a lot right there.

If she doesn't seem serious, you should be able to join the divorce petition simply by going to the courthouse and making it a noncontested divorce. Let her know that when and if she is serious and meets ALL of the Plan B conditions, you'll reevaluate the divorce. Until then, you are moving forward.

Just some thoughts. Again, I wish you the best and hope that this is a true new start for you and your WW.

FIM

Thanks to all for your replies and care.

FIM to clarify one small point - she is subordinate to the OM only in the Program that is a requirement for her residency. She actually works at a different hospital, so there is little chance that there would be any fallout if the A were exposed to all of the attendings there. If she does not complete the program, then she does not get her certificate, which means she will have to start all over again next year - and the only programs offered would be 2 or 3 year programs....so many more years of long hours and low pay. If she finishes, she could start practicing in TX sometime in July.

I still don't understand how what plan I am in when I move away affects the future of our relationship. Like I said before, worse case scenario is we end up in Plan D....a scenario that I am not entirely opposed to. I sometimes even think to myself, "Even if she gives up the OM, commits to complete NC, and all of the other conditions in the PBL, I don't think I want her back." So if D is where we end up, so be it.

My WW knows not to screw around with me...not since all of this. She knows there is no room for error. She is aware if she commits to a plan of action (no sex, begin to break off A) then she had better do it, and if I find out otherwise, there will be no other chances left - it will be straight to D.

Maybe I have given up too quickly, I dunno. But, I know what she stands to lose, and how much of a bright future I have before me - with or wothout her.

TM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TravellinMan:
<strong> Thanks to all for your replies and care.

FIM to clarify one small point - she is subordinate to the OM only in the Program that is a requirement for her residency. She actually works at a different hospital, so there is little chance that there would be any fallout if the A were exposed to all of the attendings there. If she does not complete the program, then she does not get her certificate, which means she will have to start all over again next year - and the only programs offered would be 2 or 3 year programs....so many more years of long hours and low pay. If she finishes, she could start practicing in TX sometime in July.

I heard some nut once suggest that As have consequences. Like missed opportunities. I guess that's one reason they are a bad idea.

I still don't understand how what plan I am in when I move away affects the future of our relationship. Like I said before, worse case scenario is we end up in Plan D....a scenario that I am not entirely opposed to. I sometimes even think to myself, "Even if she gives up the OM, commits to complete NC, and all of the other conditions in the PBL, I don't think I want her back." So if D is where we end up, so be it.

Plan B before you leabe..puts you in a position of strength, because you can't plan A as well from a distance..which means that your effect will be diminished..better she remember a strong plan a..then sudden darkness.

My WW knows not to screw around with me...not since all of this. She knows there is no room for error. She is aware if she commits to a plan of action (no sex, begin to break off A) then she had better do it, and if I find out otherwise, there will be no other chances left - it will be straight to D.

Stop kidding yourself, it took only three attempts to get you to break your word. Would you settle for that NC from her regarding OM? She has been *screwing* with you for quite some time now and shows no sign of halting.

Maybe I have given up too quickly, I dunno. But, I know what she stands to lose, and how much of a bright future I have before me - with or wothout her.

This is great news..but if you want to walk away with clean hands..don't sabotage your own efforts. Noodle

TM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

TM-

Don't know what kind of residency...but guessing that it is residency program to become board eligible physician (which is an assumption) there is federal funding...and where there is federal funding...sexual harassment is illegal...if not enforced the program can lose ALL FEDERAL FUNDING.

Three words for WW: Hostile Work Environment

BTW, yes I am a resident!
Tina

TM,

Why exposure has not done to her work place ?

Is your M more valuable than her recidency ?

Prognosis is not good for your WW. Based on the past and what she said to you ... you will find her back on OM's bed. Sorry.

-rh-

Docthorpe and Redhat -

The resident she is having the A with does not work for the sam hospital. I have contacted the OM's head of his program, and he stated there was nothing he could do. If they had been at the same hospital, then things would have been very different...but alas, no.

I appreciate everyone's advice (and 2x4's), and will digest all of this over the next few days....


TM

TM-

Poor brave TM...LOL, you took your 2x4's like a man....LOL

When I read your post I thought, Oh no.......he better batton down the hatches, cuz there's a storm moving in and it's not going to be pretty. LOL!!!!!

We love you TM!!! I'm not going to say a thing regarding your Plan B, except that I seriously thought your WW might not care....which is sort of the way I'm afraid my WH will act.....so in a twisted way it comforts me to know that she did in fact react to this........and I don't fault you for not staying Dark, this has got to be the complete WORST.

Mortar(aka Plan B czar)-

So, how should he have handled the her deserving to talk about the letter thing, as I'm sure I'll get the same reaction......he's going to blow up my phone after he reads that letter, so I shouldn't explain it? I should let it be what it is?! I mean it's not like it's a real abstract letter, I toned it down a few times because he has a little trouble with the big words.

I get the impression that meeting him and discussing Plan B is not an option LMAO!!!

I thought about what I'd say to him when he did call....and he will, I thought I'd say "Wow, you broke it off with her already?" But as you say, that's giving them their cake right?!? That's probably going to give me the most trouble...that 1st call, oh heck, who am I kidding...it's going to be all I can do not to pick up that phone.

Chin up TM, they really do know what they're talking about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

You wont be the first one who fell off the plan B wagon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Go dark again...if she calls...tell her to email to you what it is she wants to talk about.

I think your story has more hope than others here...keep doing plan B...and this time make it really tight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TM and all others considering Plan B! This is why I caution so carefully to people considering it! You cannot do a PLAN B unless you are willing to do it CORRECTLY! This plan did not work..as said before, she got her fix from you!
I have done this many, many times TM...I answer the phone, only to hear "no I haven't ended with her" "I just wanted a chance to explain, or to talk or to clarify"

Plan is NOT I repeat is NOT intended to end an affair, it is to protect you and your marriage! Now you are back to square one! Please go back dark and stay there! DO NOT answer the phone...if it is an emergency then she can leave a message or call your intermediary!

AFter falling off of the wagon so many times myself, I am a real stickler (SP) about how this is to be done! I wish you luck! and i too hope I am wrong !

TM -

The most dangerous thing I see in your situation is that you may lose your love for your wife.

I did a lot of time in Plan B, but broke it several times. Then it just got too hurtful to be told over and over again that OW would be, could be gone. It sucked the love right out of me.

I hope that doesn't happen to you.

Caren,

Let's see...how should he have handled it? Well, first off...dont answer the phone. Have her contact someone else if she agreed to the PBL so that the third person can verify. Then, you can have a conversation with the WS that ONLY talks about the PBL and whether the terms have been met. No relationship talk. No jusitifcations. This is a surrender meeting...there are no negotiations!

But, let's say that he does take the call and it sounds like she wants back into the marriage. Well, then he says "have you written the NC letter for me to review and send to OM?" Of course, in this instance, she would say "no." Then he would say "well, then we have nothing to talk about until you are prepared to do what is in the PBL. Then say goodnight...AND GET OFF THE PHONE!! Like I said, not answering is the best way.

You see, they will try to get their fix, all under the auspices of wanting to clarify, to explain their position, to get you to "understand" what they are going through...but that they really do love you and want this. Barbara Sreisand!! They are being disrespectful STILL...and wanting what they want. That PBL is VERY clear. It needs no explanation. A four year old can understand it.

They call and do these things because they test your resolve. They are trying to see where the boundaries are...to see if they can get just a small spoon of your frosting for their cake. You give it to them, and they will press for more.

It was posted above...and needs to be stated over and over here...Plan B is NOT about getting your WS back. That may be a byproduct. Plan B is about getting control of your life as a BS. To move forward out of the hell you have been in. Where the OP is no longer relevant. Where the affair begins to fall behind you in the rear view mirror.

You are leavign the hell. Your WS may chose to come with you, or not. But you are not staying in that hell any longer. That is why I like Plan B. It is because after the initial withdrawal, you gain so much respect for yourself, so much control over your life. And guess what? You also are better able to establish boundaries with your WS if they come back. Because you have moved on before, and have seen that the world doesnt end...and that you are strong enough to do the tough things in life.

So, he can continue to reward her behavior...or go back dark immediately. His Plan B, which was working well, can be saved, but he needs to rescind that offer made during the conversation, and let her know that the PBL is the only terms that are acceptable and she must meet every one of them before she can even think of contacting him.

In His arms.

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>