</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mortarman:
<strong> Caren,

...Have her contact someone else if she agreed to the PBL so that the third person can verify...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's the thing. She never had a chance to agree, disagree, or whatever. I left the note in her car after a very long and heartfelt discussion. Needless to say, it caught her completely by surprise. She knew she was in the process of loosing me, and then to have no contact was too much for her.

I know what everyone thinks here. I know when I say "My situation is different" everyone thinks "yeah, right! we are all different". But I know my W, and I know her heart. She is dissillusioned by the OM, and wants to break it off, but fears reprisal. He asks her EVERY DAY whether she has served me papers or not. Why is he so concerned? He has yet to even file on his wife. And he has now revealed that he knows he cannot live without his child. Even part time. So maybe he is considering a reconciliation with his W. Just a guess.

My W and I are going to take this slow, and if she backslides in any way, shape, or form, she is aware of the consequences....I have little patience at this point in our R. She knows I will file on her in a heartbeat once in TX if she screws up at all. I know most of you here are worried about me getting hurt, but I can't get hurt if my heart is closed to her. I am working through this right now completely in my head, my heart is in no way involved. Maybe I am lucky that way. I am able to seperate the two fairly easily now.

I am going to follow this road for the time being. I will do it with my eyes and ears completely open, and at the first sign of trouble, cut all contact and proceed with Plan B or even Plan D. I have reached my limit with her, and have laid down the law somewhat. I have no problem with allowing her to see the OM professionally, and her ending the A gradually so as to not affect her future. What is 4 months out of a lifetime? I will be in TX regardless, so she would be able to do anything she wishes anyway.

I am not an example to anyone here. I think most people should follow the MB system to a T. I know it can and does work. But in my sitch, I have to modify it to fit me. Maybe, later on, I will look back at my actions and ask myself, "Why was I so trusting?" But right now this is what I feel I must do, come hell or high water.

Sorry to dissappoint all of you who were in my corner, cheering me on.

TM

Before you move to Texas, you might check out the difference between the states in matters of divorce, just in case.

TM,

I understand what you are saying...I really do. But you must listen and read what you posted here to see that it doesnt quite make sense (believe me, I have made the same rationalizations).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W and I are going to take this slow, and if she backslides in any way, shape, or form, she is aware of the consequences </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I am going to be a little tough on you here. Take it slow? What does that mean? Take what slow? Her being with OM? Or her working on the marriage? She cant work on the marriage if the OM is in the picture (read: affair is still ongoing)...that is an impossibility!! If she wants to go slow on the recovery of your marriage, then that's great. If she wants to go slow on the ending of the A, then you my friend are in trouble. You said somethign about if she backslides. Backslides to what? If she is seeing him and dating him (albeit, SUPPOSEDLY she is slowly ending it), then what does she backslide to? She is already backslidden. When you are at the bottom of a hole, dont keep digging!! And...you said she would be aware of the consequences. No she wont. Because she hasnt had any yet. As a matter of fact, when you put your foot down with Plan B, she just came up and moved it.

You said above that she couldnt handle the NC with you, so you had to go to her. No you didnt. She is SUPPOSED to feel that way. That is what Plan B does. It gives her none of you. You had her in the best position to recover your marriage, and then you let her off the hook.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ....I have little patience at this point in our R. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have a lot of patience. Too much now, because you are letting her cake eat, with your help!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She knows I will file on her in a heartbeat once in TX if she screws up at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And how exactly is she to know what screwing up means? Is it her having sex with OM? Well, if she is slowly letting the affair down, then the sex WILL continue. So, either the affair is over (which means she can send the NC letter and get as far away from the OM as she can) or she is in the relationship and having sex. Again, I am not sure how she is supposed to screw up any worse than she already is, or any worse than you are about to allow her to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know most of you here are worried about me getting hurt, but I can't get hurt if my heart is closed to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it wont be. You will be dragged back onto the rollercoaster. Only Plan B allows you to disattach. You will have good talks and good times with her as she eats cake. And then she will go back to OM and do her slowly-end-the-affair thing. And you sir, will be hurt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am working through this right now completely in my head, my heart is in no way involved. Maybe I am lucky that way. I am able to seperate the two fairly easily now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This statement is ademantly not true. You allowed her to blow apart your Plan B BECAUSE of your heart!! Definitely not your head. That isnt a hit on you. We know you love her. But, stop confusing actions of the heart with using your head. This idea you are banging around is definitely not logical and does not go along with anything a good MC or Dr. Harley would tell you to do. You are doing this on emotion, not on reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am going to follow this road for the time being. I will do it with my eyes and ears completely open, and at the first sign of trouble, cut all contact and proceed with Plan B or even Plan D. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, what is the sign of trouble? She is being allowed to stay in the affair because of her job. So that means sex is allowed (you cannot disattach the two...if she isnt having sex and intimacy, she isnt in the affair...that guy isnt going to stay in a relationship with her and not get some booty!). So, count on the fact that you will be in Plan B or D very shortly!! Because this will all continue to happen. Of course, with you living away from her, she could continue the relationship for four months, all the while telling you she is slowly ending things. And you would be none the wiser. TM, you are going to have to wake up here. I had the same issues. Tried to argue with people here that my wife was different and I had to do it different. In the end, the only thing that woke her up was her seeing that I meant it, that me and the kids were leaving and I was no longer going to have any contact with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have reached my limit with her, and have laid down the law somewhat. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you havent. You laid down the law with the PBL and then jsut let her run thru it. She does nto respect you. First, by cheating on you. Second, because you dont mean what you say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have no problem with allowing her to see the OM professionally, and her ending the A gradually so as to not affect her future. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sound fog bound here! How do you end it gradually? That means she is still having SF and intimacy with him until it ends. And you are fine with this? If you were in Plan B, this might go on also...but at least you would not be condoning it. And at least you would be meeting none of her needs and she would see the need to come home. But right now, she has the best of all worlds...two men at her bidding. She SAYS she has these issues with the OM. But in reality, if they were really issues, she would end it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is 4 months out of a lifetime? I will be in TX regardless, so she would be able to do anything she wishes anyway. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Four months could be the end of your marriage and the last chance to save it. Your wife was responding remarkably well to your Plan B. Next time, you may not get that chance.

TM, for your sake, I will always hope that you beat the odds. But unfortunately, I have been around this enough to know that you arent going to beat human nature. These things (affairs) have aremarkably sameness to them. There are "laws" here, like the laws of gravity. And I am afraid you arent going to break them.

You wanted a way out of yoru hell, and you were starting to get it. then you let your emotions over ride your brain. Again, I am NOT slamming you. I did the same thing several times. "You dont know my wife...she seems so genuine now..."blah, blah, blah. She would even tell me all the things wrong with the OM. But when push came to shove, she wouldnt end it. Why? because she didnt HAVE to. She had us both. And you now have said that she can have both of you for the next 4 months.

Some FWWs on here could help with this, but I am telling you...I am willing to bet my first born this aint going to work out the way you think.

In His arms.

Let's not forget..

That the BS is usually just as addicted to the WS as the WS is to the OP.

TM..you blew it this time..you really did..and worse, now you sound as fogged out as any WS that I have ever spoken to.

Every statement that you make defies logic, is vague regarding standards..and you are trying to make exceptions to what is nothing short of a formulaic situation.

What would you tell you?

The fact that you think she needs to *agree* with plan B demonstates that you do not underdstand plan B.

She should NOT agree..she should NOT like it. She does NOT need it explained to her..you did that with your letter.

Now cut her off..cold turkey..and let her make her own decisions. Ultimately..you will be brought to this place again and again..this is not something that you can avoid..but every failure makes success a less likely outcome. She loses respect for you every time she manipulates you into breaking your own word. Depend on it. If she is being *nice* but not ending her A..it is because her agenda is to have you both. Period.

So, is that OK with you? Or do you really believe that somehow..despite the many thousands of examples you have literally at your figertips that your M and the A that plagues it have a very specific framework..somehow your situation is different.

That is WS thinking in a nutshell.

Come out of the fog, there are monsters in there.

Noodle

TM,

Been getting a good "whoopin up side the head" haven't ya? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Well, you do need it, but not for the reasons you think. I think you are missing something here in what MM and others are telling you. Let me try from a different angle.

First, if you have decided the marriage is over, then it is and you have "earned" your right to a divorce. So, let's dispense with that right now.

However, if there is something in you that says "maybe, just maybe this can be saved." THEN you really need to pay attention to MM.

Here is why. You are NOT doing plan B JUST FOR YOU. You are doing it for your W. Plan B is meant to preserve your love for her and right now the old love bank is pretty low right? She fears you leaving and taking part of the cake, but later she will realize what she has done. By going to plan B you give HER the best opportunity to do what is right, EVEN if you eventually decide you want the marriage to end. You give her time to try and make things right. You give her A time to end, thus giving yourself time to give this a shot IF she ends the A.

You know candy is bad for kids right? Well right now you are the candy to her and giving her candy is only feeding her sweet tooth. What is best for her AND you is to not feed her addiction and that means plan B. It sounds counter intuitive, but if you think about it, you will see the logic.

She needs away to come home, and plan B gives her that way, and like a good map, it is very clear what turns she must make, what decisions she must make, what actions she must make. If you "sort of do plan B" you garble up the directions and she is likely to stay lost.

So given what I have said let's look at what you said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My W and I are going to take this slow, and if she backslides in any way, shape, or form, she is aware of the consequences....I have little patience at this point in our R. She knows I will file on her in a heartbeat once in TX if she screws up at all. I know most of you here are worried about me getting hurt, but I can't get hurt if my heart is closed to her. I am working through this right now completely in my head, my heart is in no way involved. Maybe I am lucky that way. I am able to seperate the two fairly easily now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you can separte the two well, but she cannot, hence what you have said sounds nice but as MM pointed out, the directions are garbled. Are you going to tolerate the A or not? What does slip mean given what you have agreed to? Heck I am confused and I am definitely using my head and not my heart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to follow this road for the time being. I will do it with my eyes and ears completely open, and at the first sign of trouble, cut all contact and proceed with Plan B or even Plan D.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like the first part you said about eyes and ears, but you have left the woman with a confused set of directions and if she doesn't show up in time, she is history. Further, it will be plan D because... see next quote.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have reached my limit with her, and have laid down the law somewhat.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have reached your limit. That is not a good place to be even now, much less later. So plan B will NOT be an option will it. Further even you admit that you have not made clear boundaries here and stated your expectations for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have no problem with allowing her to see the OM professionally,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no problem if you don't want the A to end. There is some problem if you expect her to end the A sometime. There is a big problem if you expect her to end the A NOW. She can see him professionally although NO CONTACT is best, but there needs to be boundaries to what that means.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and her ending the A gradually so as to not affect her future.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This IS a problem as MM has said. It is like smoking you either quit or you don't. There is the nicotine patch for people, but what is your/her nicotine patch??? This needs to be thought out, or there is no plan and with no plan most people fail. Heck, most businesses fail with no plan. She is not that strong, so you are setting her up to fail.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is 4 months out of a lifetime? I will be in TX regardless, so she would be able to do anything she wishes anyway.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes this is true. So why not plan B for those measley 4 months? If you don't do that, then you two need to talk about a plan of accountability, a plan for her protection from him, a plan for her dealing with withdrawal, a plan for her learning to love you again. No plan, you are out of business.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not an example to anyone here. I think most people should follow the MB system to a T. I know it can and does work.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you are. No one follows the plans to a T, because they are outlines of what to do and HOW TO MAKE A PLAN. They specify the goals, but within the plans there is latitude. If you counceled with the Harleys their approach would be tailored to your needs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But in my sitch, I have to modify it to fit me. Maybe, later on, I will look back at my actions and ask myself, "Why was I so trusting?" But right now this is what I feel I must do, come hell or high water. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if you live in Austin stay the heck away from the low water crossing because HIGH water always comes. So what is your plan TM? You need a plan and she needs clear directions home.

Now if you look at this way, and then go read MM's and others post you will see what they are on you about. It is not your actions so much but that you are leaving mixed messages and you are operating without a plan other than to head to TX. The TX part is fine if that suits you, but other than that you are leaving it up to your W's "good decision" making and YOU KNOW THAT IS NOT GOING TO WORK RIGHT NOW. She is in the fog.

Guide her out of the fog TM. Give her instructions on how to get home and give her a plan. You can reissue a plan B letter with all of this in it. It will be a love letter with direct instructions on how to get home to you.

She must end the A. She has resources if he misuses his authority to assign her postings. He knows that. He is playing a power game with her and she has knuckled under.

Please think about this and then post your thoughts and plans. As you know you WILL get feedback. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Okay, here I go getting into trouble again.

TM, if your WW is married to you, why does she need to go through the program? If she is serious about being your wife, she should quit, go with you to TX, and be a wife, and possibly a mother.

You provide the financial support, and she provides the domestic support.

If she doesn't want to be your wife, then do as the others wrote and do a strict Plan B. If she doesn't show up by the end of July, need I write more?

I am sure glad I have a padded head and really thick skin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

First of all - what boundaries are there....

NO SF. Period. If it happens, then Plan D. No second chances.

I am not pushing her for NC. Not yet. I know how this guy is, and he is a coward. He has been asking her everyday if she has served me. She is going to lie to him and tell him "yes" just to get him off of her back. He is the passive agressive type that would really mess her up if he found out the truth.

I am trusting my W somewhat - admittedly more than she deserves right now, but I am fine with it. I am thinking most of you don't understand where I am mentally right now. And that's okay. I am of the mind to give her what she asks for, and if she messes up, even one iota, I will file myself. I am tired of the lies, games, etc. I will not take anymore. Period.

I guess that's why I am OK with this sitch. Because I am completely detached. The only thing I go back and forth with in my head is whether I should allow her to be my wife, or I should file myself. I deserve better, and I know I could find it.


Now RAG -

Your comments are somewhat troubling. If she is going to be my wife, then automatically she has to be a housewife? I disagree with that comment categorically. She is going to provide income while I return to school. We may even opt out of having children altogether. I for one am afraid what the future of this country (and this planet) is going to look like - if it is this bad now, what are our children going to face? I feel sometimes that I would be doing an injustice by introducing a new soul to this world.

I hope this helps clear things up, but I have put my helmet back on, just in case....


TM

TM,

You are the one missing something. We know you are running on fumes and don't care too much one way or another. That is NOT a bad frame of mind to be in. However, IF she does all she says you won't have enough love left to rebuild the marriage.

You think what you have been through is tough, wait until you try recovery on. Man, you have got to keep something in the tank and your comments suggest you don't have much left. Hence the advice of MM and the rest of us.

You two need a plan. I know that plan B is to have no contact until the A is over and you are going to let her end it on HER schedule, but I am telling you you need to provide her guidance.

If I recall correctly you have had a conversation or two with OM. If not, then perhaps you need to go in person to his supervisor and question this man's leadership qualities and see if he can be removed from any authority over your W. I mean ANY. Then leave town.

You have every right to question this marriage or her as a W. But, you are still married and I suspect buried under a lot of debris there is some love. Take care of that love, there is precious little left and we all know it. Hence, the bong music on your noggin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 02:27 AM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

Gimble - ??

I am meeting again with my WW to discuss further details of our arrangement in less than an hour. I will post afterwards, and I will be sure to wear full riot gear.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TM

***NO SF. Period.***

Okay. Your whole plan is depending on this. But how on earth are you going to know if SF between your WW and her OM does or does not happen? Are you planning to just take your WW's word for it?
Mulan

TM,
You may have said this somewhere...and I missed it.

BUT, what arrangements does your WW have to discuss?
Is she ready to send a NC letter to OW and mean it? If not, then why even 'meet' with her?

Danielle

TM,

Looks like no way out but through for you on this one. Pity.

Noodle

TM - are you planning on continuing our Plan B? I read thru everything here again, and I don't see it - all I see is a modified plan A. You can't possible control whetherr your WW is having sex with OM - all you can do is demand TOTAL NC in Plan A, work it, and then, after your time has elapsed, GO DARK! I am just a novice here, but I read enough and study enough to know what has to be involved. If you are meeting with her, or already have, it HAS TO BE THE LAST CONTACT in order for Plan B to work. You MUST set up somem sort of mediator - someone to act between you and her for communication, and if she ever contacts you, the ony thing you can talk about is if she is fully willing to work on the M - after she proves to you that there is NC. NO other conversation! She has to MISS YOU ENTIRELY.

It is also for your safety - I am going thru withdrawals from my W, you need to go thru that too. Dr Harley wrote that Plan B will either bring the WS around, or give you time for your Love Bank to empty so tht you can do Plan D without regret.

I pray that never happens - but please be careful - and listen to what the others are saying. They've helped me thru some really tough times with sound advice...

In my thoughts

David

TM-

I luv ya hon..........but you're diggin a hole for yourself here....you seriously are.

Go back to plan B QUICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You think you're doing the right thing, but you're ruining any chance you had to reconcile.....please don't do this.

-Caren

TM

been an awfully long time since I posted to you.

No matter what is said here I guess you are going to do what YOU want to. You always were.

However as FWW myself I wondered how would you know if your WW had sex with OM?
How do you know she is going out or not with him?

I dont see it I sorry. I know I lied straight to all my family during my A, my kids my H my mom, dad, I DIDN'T CARE.
But most of all, I lied to myself.

Your WW is doing that to. She can't SEE it. Its like giving a 2 yr old a open packet of sweets and telling the child they cant take one..........gues what, they do.

Well I hope your plan works for you, but I doubt it.

I was kinda hoping this thread would just be pushed off into MB obscurity....

Thanks for posting to me Caren, AW, and all the rest. I know what MB says and what everybody here thinks, so I will take that into consideration. I am not sure how I am going to proceed.

On one hand I understand the arguements presented here. But on the other, I don't know that is is fair to go completely dark on her when she has told me, striaght to my face, that she can't live without me in her life. She has never lied to my face (that I know of), only over the phone.

And to everyone that says for her to quit her residency, please try to understand the circumstances. There are absolutely no residencies in Austin, and any others would be multi-year residencies, further delaying her ability to earn a decent living. And most of the others in TX are not even surgical residencies.

So, I face a dilemma, and I am going to have to make the final call. Do I go dark until her residency is over in July, or do I maintain contact....I guess you could call it Plan A'ing from a distance.

What puzzles me the most is...had I never decided to go to Plan B, and still moved back to TX, everyone here would have still supported my Plan A'ing from TX. BUT, now that I have started into Plan B, reverting back to a limited Plan A seems to be heresy. Can someone explain to me why a Plan A with boundaries esablished is so bad? Is it because my WW is now aware of the potential of going dark? Is it because she might think that I think this is all some big game?

I just don't understand all of the angst directed at my methodology.

TM

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TravellinMan:
<strong> I was kinda hoping this thread would just be pushed off into MB obscurity....

Thanks for posting to me Caren, AW, and all the rest. I know what MB says and what everybody here thinks, so I will take that into consideration. I am not sure how I am going to proceed.

On one hand I understand the arguements presented here. But on the other, I don't know that is is fair to go completely dark on her when she has told me, striaght to my face, that she can't live without me in her life. She has never lied to my face (that I know of), only over the phone.

And to everyone that says for her to quit her residency, please try to understand the circumstances. There are absolutely no residencies in Austin, and any others would be multi-year residencies, further delaying her ability to earn a decent living. And most of the others in TX are not even surgical residencies.

So, I face a dilemma, and I am going to have to make the final call. Do I go dark until her residency is over in July, or do I maintain contact....I guess you could call it Plan A'ing from a distance.

What puzzles me the most is...had I never decided to go to Plan B, and still moved back to TX, everyone here would have still supported my Plan A'ing from TX. BUT, now that I have started into Plan B, reverting back to a limited Plan A seems to be heresy. Can someone explain to me why a Plan A with boundaries esablished is so bad? Is it because my WW is now aware of the potential of going dark? Is it because she might think that I think this is all some big game?

I just don't understand all of the angst directed at my methodology.

TM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TM - it's not heresy! If you aren't ready for plan B - DON'T DO IT! If you can make it thru a VERY LONG Plan A, then try it - I think everyone here is more worried about you - how this will affect you.

David

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TravellinMan:
<strong> I was kinda hoping this thread would just be pushed off into MB obscurity....

No such luck

Thanks for posting to me Caren, AW, and all the rest. I know what MB says and what everybody here thinks, so I will take that into consideration. I am not sure how I am going to proceed.

Yes, those who are emotionally detached and familiar with the formulaic nature of As all seem to have reached the same conclusion.

On one hand I understand the arguements presented here. But on the other, I don't know that is is fair to go completely dark on her when she has told me, striaght to my face, that she can't live without me in her life. She has never lied to my face (that I know of), only over the phone.

If it is true that she can't live without you, she knows what she needs to do..anything less and you are enabling. Life is just full of hard choices.

And to everyone that says for her to quit her residency, please try to understand the circumstances. There are absolutely no residencies in Austin, and any others would be multi-year residencies, further delaying her ability to earn a decent living. And most of the others in TX are not even surgical residencies.

None of this is relevant. She made a CHOICE to have an A with OM..it was THAT choice that affected her residency. It is too late now to take THAT choice back. Now she has a new choice to make..and the right choice does not include the plans you have both discussed. I'd like to mention..that one can make a reasonable living without being a surgeon, and people do leave jobs that put their marriage at risk all the time. My H is doing so and we have considerably more financial risk involved.

So, I face a dilemma, and I am going to have to make the final call. Do I go dark until her residency is over in July, or do I maintain contact....I guess you could call it Plan A'ing from a distance.

The timing is your decision..I would vote for plan B prior to leaving..because it is not avoidable that your plan A will be diminished by your absense. I'd strike while the iron is hot. What is more important is to understand the difference and purpose behind plans A and B..you want to meld them together..so does everyone..it just doesn't work.

What puzzles me the most is...had I never decided to go to Plan B, and still moved back to TX, everyone here would have still supported my Plan A'ing from TX. BUT, now that I have started into Plan B, reverting back to a limited Plan A seems to be heresy. Can someone explain to me why a Plan A with boundaries esablished is so bad? Is it because my WW is now aware of the potential of going dark? Is it because she might think that I think this is all some big game?

Because you made the DECISION to go to plan B..and you gave her the letter. Going back on your word is not as simple as changing your mind in this instance..it is a FAILED plan B. You changed your mind because the pressure was to great..and for no other reason. BTW, I would still have advised you go to plan B prior to leaving assuming that your plan A was decent because of the distance.

I just don't understand all of the angst directed at my methodology.

No angst here..frankly it's no skin off my back whether you try to lift your W to NC with a SPOON...the arguments are directed at your OBVIOUS rationalizations and concessions that are contradictory to the proven methods of successfull recovery.

Noodle

TM </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

TM,

It is because your "methodology" is not based in experience nor research. It is based on your feelings and on your wife making you believe that she is telling you the truth. Maybe she is telling you the truth. But, even if she is...there is a problem here.

The problem is first of all if she is telling the truth, then the BIGGEST problem she has is the OM. He is going to pressure her to continue to have sex, to continue the relationship. If she gives in, then supposedly her marriage is over with. If she doesnt give in, then he may make things difficult with her job, as you say she fears. So what kind of position is she left in? If she means what she is saying, then you are putting her in a position that she will be "forced" to give this man sex when she doesnt want to, and to lie to you about it. Because to not have sex will supposedly cause her problems with her residency. And to have sex will cause you to go to divorce. And supposedly she doesnt want to lose you.

Dont you see? You are putting her in a no-win situation just by doing this. And you are setting her up for failure. And you are putting your marriage in an untenable situation. There is no way you can succeed at this, except the OM gets some sense of conscience and walks away without being asked. Highly unlikely.

If your wife doesnt know what she is talking about, which is highly likely because of the nature of affairs and the Fog, then your marriage will be doomed. Why? Because you will have gone back to Plan A after setting a boundary. She will not respect you for doing that. And she shouldnt. You, sir, did not keep your word. On one hand, you were right above...she will not believe you the next time you draw the line (and I am betting a month's worth of pay you will have to...my prayers are that you wont, but the odds are you will). And so when you go to Plan B again, she is just going to believe that it means nothing.

You see, what she has done is absolutely wrong on so many levels. And up until now, you have been clear about that. By saying she can maintain the relationship, you have said it is okay for her to be involved in an affair (at least an EA) for the sake of her job. So, an affair is okay under this circumstance? No? what THAT is what you are telling her. Then you tell her that the EA is okay, but no more PA? And then you put her in the no-win situation above where she will have to give her body to him for the sake of her job, and lie to you for the sake of her marriage.

Your job is to be the spiritual leader of your family, TM. You have to be right...you have to do right. Your wife CANNOT be the leader...God gave you that role.

Eve was taken advantage of by the Devil in the Garden as Adam stood right there and watched. He didnt lead...and she fell for the whole thing. He failed her, and failed all humanity.

You were doing the right thing. You were trusting God to be in control. You were doing right, and showed your wife how to get back to where she should be and be who she should be. And now you are going to pull the rug out from under her...and increase the odds that your marriage will not make it.

TM...I pray that your marriage survives this...that it survives you and what you are doing. I really do. I am only being hard on you because you are not using your head here.

Yes, if you had never gone to Plan B, then things would be different. But even if you hadnt of, allowing her to stay in the affair but saying no PA, then heading off to TX...forces her into a situation she cannot win unless she cheats some more and lies to you.

How do you think she will feel about you and about herself at the end of 4 months?

Show her the way. Tell her to write the NC letter. Have her give it to him. It should say that the affair is over, that she plans on going home. But she wants to finish her residency. That she asks that their contact for the next 4 months be professional.

Once she does this, then she needs to document everything that goes on. That way, if he tries retribution, she can bring hell down on him.

This is the only way, TM. Sure, he could bring hell down on her and she might lose her residency. That is a risk. But, at least she will feel good about herself.

Odds are, he isnt going to risk his position to get back at her. He is a predator and will move onto the next intern.

TM...wake up! There is nothing new under the sun. You and your wife are not unique. And the cure for what ails you is still the same.

Stop trying to control this and just trust God. Do what is right and lead your wife. If you do, I promise you God will protect you and your wife. And all will be well in the end.

In His arms.