Hey all...it's me. My WH came over this morning at my request....(Gotta get in a little SF b4 I go dark..lol) anyway, he also brought his laundry, well he had to be at work at 1pm and I had a psych. appt, so only one load of laundry got completed, there was a load of towels and a couple shirts that didn't dry in time. So WH said he'd be over after work to pick them up....he gets off at 9PM...fine, whatever.

So I talked to him again at some point during the day, and I said "So what time will you be over 9:15?" He said "No...I told you I have to work over" Well he didn't tell me that, but I said OK......Now he works in a pet shop and the shop closes at 9pm....so I folded his towels and his shirts, and went about my business, made dinner, made him a plate so he could take it home if he wanted to.....We ate (Made Chicken Cordon Bleu), 10pm rolls around...no sign of WH...okay fine, 10:30..nothing, DD10 is getting tired, but I think I can't go to bed yet, and she insists I go to bed with her ever since all this stuff started, I tell her "Okay, we'll go to bed in a few minutes" So 11pm rolls around DD10 has fallen asleep on the couch, I wake her up and tell her it's time to go to bed. Now she calls my WH EVERY NIGHT to tell him "Good night, I love you, God bless you", and if she falls asleep like tonight I usually remind her. Well tonight I didn't remind her, and she didn't ask.

So I go to bed, I'm pretty mad, because he could have at least called me and told me he wouldn't be over if he couldn't make it. I toss and turn for a few hours then decide to get up and get something to drink, smoke a cigarette....just do something. I sit there smoking a cigarette debating on calling him....1/2 thinking "What if something happened to him....." Then thinking...okay Caren, that's a crutch, nothing happened to him, he's just being an @sshole.

So I go upstairs and wash my face, deciding that I won't call, because I have nothing pleasant to say to him. It's now 1 am. I'm drying my face off...and the phone rings. I go look at the caller ID, I answer it.

He says: "Were you sleeping?"

I said "No, just washing my face"

He said "Oh, man...I just got home."

I said "Oh, okay"

He said "Did DD10 try to call me?"

I said "No"

He said "WHY NOT?"

I said "She fell asleep"

He started talking about how it was bull crap he had to work so long.

I said "Oh, you were at work all this time?"

He said "YES!"

I said "Oh, okay"

He said "WHAT?!?!"

I said "Nothing, it was a little inconsiderate of you to not call and say you werent coming."

He said "Well, that's why I'm calling now"

I said "Oh, okay"

He said "Caren, I didn't want to come over at 1 o'clock in the morning"

I said "That's fine"

Now, I'm not being friendly exactly, but I'm not being a ***** either, just kinda acting like....whatever.

He said "Well I'll just pick my laundry up tommorrow."

I said "Okay"

And got off the phone.

Then the phone rings again 2 seconds later

I said "Hello?"

He said "Why do I feel like you are mad at me?"

I said "I dunno, I'm not mad at you"

He said "Well I feel like you think I'm lying"

I said "No, I never accused you of lying"

He said "Well, I really was at work, I told you that I had to work late"

I said "Actually, you didn't"

So he starts going into this long drawn out explanation of what he was doing at work for so long, that they'd gotten a fish order in and they had to acclimate the fish to the water..yadda yadda yadda.

He is like bending over backwards and sweating the fact that I might be displeased with him....what's up with that?!?!

So he said "Will you be home tommorrow?"

I said "No"

He said "OH, well I get off at 6pm tommorrow will you be home then?"

I said "Probably"

So he said "Okay, well I'll talk to you later"

I said "Okay, later"

Okay....so can anyone tell me exactly what the hell that was?

He seemed VERY pressed that I believe that he was at work, I bit my tongue when I wanted to say "It makes no difference if I believe you or not." He didn't come right out and say it but I think he wanted to make sure I didn't think he was at OW's. Who the hell cares? I'm so over worrying about where he is and what he's doing.

I was talking to a friend tonight, and I told her he was supposed to stop by, but was a no-show. She said "Doesn't that make you crazy?" "Don't you sit there and think 'I know he's with her?'" I said "No, I don't think that, he probably IS with her...but it's a moot point to dwell on it, I can't change it so why would I sit around and think about it?" Then she starts saying "I don't understand Caren...you know he's making love to you....and you know he's making love to her, how can you stand it?" I said "Well 1st of all, he's not making LOVE to anyone....he's f*cking me and he's f*cking her" She said "But I don't understand, you're condoning the fact that he's sleeping with someone else" I said "No, actually I'm not" I explained as best I could about MB (I've tried this b4 with her), I gave her a general overview and told her that I was getting ready to Plan B, and what that was. And she said "Oh....that's a good idea." I said "Ummm yeah, did you think I was just sitting around here accepting my fate and letting him walk all over me?" She said "Well sorta" So now she kind of understands and says "Oh....well okay, that makes more sense".
Well hells bells, I'm glad it makes sense to somebody, I can't make heads or tails of it..LMAO

Sooooooooo anyone care to offer an opinion of what on earth was going on in his little pea brain this evening, and why it was so damn important that I not think he was with her?!?!?!

I think he's actually disappointed that I'm no longer driving by his house and questioning his whereabouts......hmmm maybe it means he's afraid I don't care anymore, if I'm not stalking him. He wasn't going to tell me where he lived because he said "No, you'll stalk me" I said "What would be the point in that?! I already know what's going on, why would I even bother? I'm not going to stalk you, I have no reason to"

*sigh* I know I shouldn't try to figure out his motivation, but it's really baffling, and he was unusually attentive today, he actually kissed me for quite a while b4 the SF today...which is out of character as of late. He may kiss me during SF, but there's not much *making out* or anything before it. AND I caught him today when I stopped by his shop to pick up DD10, I didn't go in, he came out to my car and he was blatantly staring at my chest...I had to try not to laugh at him. I did have a sort of out of character for me sweater on, and I had on a push up bra (there's not much to push up...but work with me here..LMAO) and a camisole over that, then the sweater, and I had only buttoned 2 of the buttons, so I had the whole cleavage thing going on......actually, I was getting a lot of undue attention from men at the grocery store too...LOL. I was thinking "Oh for god's sake, people are being awfully nice to my boobs" LMAO

So that was my stupid day in a nutshell. My psychiatrist appt was pointless, it was just a consultation, they didn't even prescribe the new meds, they are just giving my family doctor the recommendation. So I'm like OKAY, someone better give me some drugs and QUICK!!!!!

Well, I'm going to attempt to sleep again now that it's 2:15 in the morning and I have to get up @ 7am....hopefully someone will reply to me during the night, I hate being ignored!! LMAO Don't make me wear that sweater in here LMAO!!!!!!!!

-Caren

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: CarenMc ]</small>

Go to sleep Caren...you are looking for signs and wondering if he is turning around too much.

Your WH is still not respecting you...he could have called but he did not...instead worried more about his laundry. He is cake eating.

By the way...when is your plan B deadline?

zizzy-

Oh I know he's cake eating....I was just confused about the being so adamant that I believe that he was working all that time...I just wondered what that accomplished.....well, I know what it accomplished, or I wouldn't be awake @ 2:30 analyzing it. But what was he thinking it would accomplish?! "Ohhhh I better talk to my cake, my cake is probably upset with me...I better call and smooth her frosting" LOL

As for Plan B deadline, do you mean when am I starting?

I am giving him the letter on Sunday,if my stupid Dr. will ever prescribe my meds<----Not a copout, I was quite suicidal not more than a month ago, and I know that Plan B is going to rip off my azz and hand it to me, so I just want to make sure I'm prepared and don't take another nosedive.

When I was lying in bed tonight, I was once again in spinning my wheels mode...haven't been there in a few weeks. I couldn't sleep, and was even having trouble concentrating when I was trying to say my prayers....and I thought "UGH!!! This is what it's going to feel like"

It will feel that way at 1st I'm sure, but then hopefully removing myself from this day to day chaos will make me feel better. I think that it may be refreshing to not have to worry about if and when he'll call-Cuz I flat refuse to call him most of the time.....I don't want him to feel *pursued*.

Okay, now I'm really going to bed..........I think.

-Caren

So your H is peeking out. Probably screaming to come out and you can't do anything until the WS lets him go.

There will be an internal struggle in his soul. YOu can't do anything for him other than giving him his space.

Remember: Be nice to your H but do not tolerate the WS.

Now that you have seen your H, when the WS emerges, you can tell him to go away and ask to speak to your H instead.

Don't get your hopes up too high. The WS will return. The more he struggles between the 2 characters, the better the chance for your H.

JMHO,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> Go to sleep Caren...you are looking for signs and wondering if he is turning around too much.

Your WH is still not respecting you...he could have called but he did not...instead worried more about his laundry. He is cake eating.

By the way...when is your plan B deadline? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Caren - it's the FOG. Funny thing - WW had to come over to do laundry today too LMAO. She needed to wash stuff, but she was really looking for a fight, Never gave in, just stayed pleasant and neutral - till she left. I really wanted to know what was going thru her mind as she pulled out of the driveway as I turned off the porch light...

Have a good night Caren
Sleep well

David

I was quite suicidal not more than a month ago, and I know that Plan B is going to rip off my azz and hand it to me, so I just want to make sure I'm prepared and don't take another nosedive.

Then i believe...sunday is too soon for you.

I dont think you have had enough of plan A. Some BS need a lot of plan A bashing before they call quits. I think you need more because you are still giving your WH SF

I was also giving WH SF even during plan B!!! But after that slowly i found WS disgusting and the SF stopped completely.

Dont listen to folks here telling to go into plan B soon...YOU NEED to take YOUR own time. Take another month if i were you.

If you go into plan B too soon and is not strong enough then you will keep breaking plan B. You might as well stick to plan A until you are ready.

We posters feel the pain whenever you post telling us how bad your WS is treating you. That is why most will tell you to go into plan B NOW...however since i have been in that position before i understand that it is not easy to stick to plan B if you are not ready.

Take another month caren...set Mac 10 2005 as your deadline...this is just my humble opinion...take care

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> I was quite suicidal not more than a month ago, and I know that Plan B is going to rip off my azz and hand it to me, so I just want to make sure I'm prepared and don't take another nosedive.

Then i believe...sunday is too soon for you.

I dont think you have had enough of plan A. Some BS need a lot of plan A bashing before they call quits. I think you need more because you are still giving your WH SF

I was also giving WH SF even during plan B!!! But after that slowly i found WS disgusting and the SF stopped completely.

Dont listen to folks here telling to go into plan B soon...YOU NEED to take YOUR own time. Take another month if i were you.

If you go into plan B too soon and is not strong enough then you will keep breaking plan B. You might as well stick to plan A until you are ready.

We posters feel the pain whenever you post telling us how bad your WS is treating you. That is why most will tell you to go into plan B NOW...however since i have been in that position before i understand that it is not easy to stick to plan B if you are not ready.

Take another month caren...set Mac 10 2005 as your deadline...this is just my humble opinion...take care </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with zz - maybe for a different reason - Caren - you should know this already. Once you get the meds, give them time to start working first! At least another month of Plan A - and vent it all here. Send me hate mail if you want - anything to get you to where you are really ready for that next step. Meds aren't going to help right away, and you'll need 'em working in full swing before you go dark....

JMHO

David

Okay, I'm aware the new anti-D isn't gonna kick in for 4 to 6 weeks. I'm in the medical field too, remember? LOL

A few people have told me it's time for Plan B, but most people have told me that I should wait...Dr. Harley thinks it's time per an e-mail I received from him. I think I agree, I think I should strike while the iron is hot, this has already gone on too long, we're working on 6 months of separation now, and a month since exposure (Well close). I am making him cake eater extrodinaire as it stands right now. It's becoming increasingly hard to not rip his face off when he does things like he did last night...which as we know would be counter-productive.

When I said I had to wait for the 'meds' I was actually referring to my Xanax refill.....I don't want to have a panic attack (I get them anyway), I am currently on Zoloft, and have been for about 4-5 months, it doesn't do the job, IMO, so I'm switching, not sure what they decided on, it was a toss up between Effexor and another one that I can't rememeber the name of but whatever it was it helps with sleep too.

You know if I sat around and waited to be ready for plan B, I would never do it. I would drag my heels forever. I don't "want" to break contact with my WH any more than a drug addict "wants" to stop using....as has been said before I'm as addicted to him as he is to OW.

I'm usually a woman of my word, and I think that I can stick to my Plan B, I think that I will, as a safeguard, post here before I do anything with regard to my WH, so I can get some feedback, and not do anything stupid.

-Caren

Hi Caren,

Hope you could get some sleep. Just remember that during plan B there has to be NC between you and your WH until he is ready to come back and commit to yor M. You are strong, you can do it!

Take care,

SM.

UGH-I hate it when they come and do laundry....mine still gets a shower when he is here-acts as if he still lives here 5 mths after the fact.....

I think your WH is doing the usual FOG thing. Sometimes my WH acts like yours-wants to reassure me he isn't lying, wants to know why I'm not wondering about him....his big thing is making sure I don't hate him or I'm not mad at him. All that in covering tracks-I believe. In my case i think WH wants to keep me hanging on just in case he might want to come home one day, but I am beginning to grow very tired of him VERY quickly.

If I were you-and this is just my opinion-I would stop the SF. I think as long as that is going on he is not really having and consequences....he is literally having his cake and eating it too! All that is doing is wearing you down and confusing you-or it would me. I have had NO intimate contact w/ WH since he left (except for an occasional hug).

Anyway-good luck on Plan B.....I'm not good at the plans so don't ask me for advice in that area. Do whatever you feel is right.

Well, I've been fulfilling his top 3 EN's like a mofo, SF is one of the top 3. It doesn't confuse me at all to have SF with him, I can compartmentalize it, I enjoy myself, and I don't feel remotely bad about myself.... I am the one it's okay to have sex with I married him, she's the one that should feel bad, not me. I don't get all emotional when we do have SF...I enjoy being close to him, but it's different than it was before all this trouble...before the A, it's still really good anatomically speaking, but the emotion, for all intensive purposes is missing.

I will stop having SF with him soon, because I am going to Plan B, and I can't have no contact and still have sex with him. But I'm not stopping the SF for any other reason.

For a while now, he's been in the "I don't care what you think" mode, and I haven't rocked the boat, so he hasn't had to show that to me. I believe I confuse the living hell out of him, and that's moderately satisfying. He would in no way think that I would ever still be having sex with him if he was with another woman.....it would be typical for me to shut down and not give him the time of day, but I'm not doing that.....I'm acting in a loving way (a conscious effort), and I think that confuses him. He's thinking "I am royally screwing her over...and yet she appears to still love me" It's not congruent, which I'm sure confuses him.

I am plan Aing so hard because when I go to plan B, I'm ripping the rug..and the EN's right out from under him.

I want my husband back, and I will do whatever it takes to make that happen. I DO NOT want the WS, I want the man I married...he's in there somewhere, hopefully he'll come out, but if he doesn't then I will proceed without him.

That's about it in a nutshell...sheesh I'm tired this morning, I don't wanna go to my stupid therapy, but I know I have to....so I'm off to the shower.

-Caren

Caren,,First off, the caution that ZZ was talking about was understandable. But ZZ...you mentioned that you were giving your husband SF during Plan B. You cant do that, and be doing a Plan B. Plan B includes NC!! So the plan you were in was not Plan B.

Caren...your husband is on the rollercoaster. Remarkably, he sounds like a prime candidate for Plan B. Why? Well, he is cake eating now. But, he has begun to rely more on what you have provided to him with his ENs. He is spending mroe time with you. More SF. He is even worried about you being mad or pulling away. Why? Because you have done a pretty good job at Plan A and it hurts him to think that he might have to do without you!!

Plan B is all about timing. Timing in saving your love for him. And timing on pulling that rug out from him to achieve its maximum effect. Your husband right now is teetering. That letter Sunday will blow his world apart.

So, I think this is all good news. I still want you to remember that Plan B ultimately is about you, not getting your husband back. You need to do this for you, whether he comes back or not.

So, three more days of "fun" and then you go dark and concentrate on improving your life. And prepare for that new life. A life without the OW, without an affair in your marriage. I life where you are being respected. Odds are it will be with this husband. But even if it isnt, you will be moving forward to that relationhip that will be all that you wanted.

Stand by and give Plan A a last few days of effort. No LBs. No matter what happens. Remember, Satan knows your plans also. So, you may find the next few days are filled with some challenges. Pray and concntrate on you and your plan. Do not get distracted, nor discouraged. You are on the right track, now just stay there.

In His arms.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Okay, I'm aware the new anti-D isn't gonna kick in for 4 to 6 weeks. I'm in the medical field too, remember? LOL </strong>[quote]

Gotcha, hon - didn't realize it was a benzodiazepine you were waiting for. Those work right away. I take both Xanax and Valium - and they have kept me sane (and usually asleep at night). In that case, I am with you 100% - You know whe to do the right thing,I trust your judgment, and you are in my prayers...

David

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> Okay, I'm aware the new anti-D isn't gonna kick in for 4 to 6 weeks. I'm in the medical field too, remember? LOL </strong>[quote]

Gotcha, hon - didn't realize it was a benzodiazepine you were waiting for. Those work right away. I take both Xanax and Valium - and they have kept me sane (and usually asleep at night). In that case, I am with you 100% - You know whe to do the right thing,I trust your judgment, and you are in my prayers...

David

Caren, I think Plan B would be good for you. You need to make some mental room for yourself. Is the SF for his EN or yours? Is SF something that you think will make your marriage better or does it satisfy you?

For myself:

I do not do his laundry. He choose to move out. He can do his own laundry.

I believe everything he says is a lie.

I believe any time he is not provably at work or with us, he is with her.

I let the kids decide if they want to call their father or not. No reminders.

At this point, WH says he doesn't feel sexually attracted to any woman. I put that under Point #2.

Caren, go buy a mechanical device for your physical needs. Cold, yes. Weird, maybe but it may stop you from breaking NC. Make sure you are having SF for the right reasons. Think about what kind of power it gives him over you. BTW, I haven't had any for a long time so maybe I'm not qualified to give an opinion.

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: grapegirl ]</small>

Thank you Mortar, I think that I'm ready also. I took his worry over me being mad as a good sign too. If he didn't love me deep down in there somewhere, he wouldn't care. It was definitely a test last night not to LB on him when he never showed up. But I stayed pretty cool, and although I'm sure he could tell by my voice I wasn't happy, I didn't say I wasn't and I didn't b*tch at him about it, I just accepted it for what it was.

I'm as ready as I'm ever going to be for Plan B, and that's what I thought, that he seems primed for it, and it seems like everything is falling into place, so I'm gonna go for it.

Grape-

The SF is DEFINITELY one of his top EN's but it's become one of mine, as some kind of odd by product of the A. I don't really consider him as having "control" over me during SF, it's actually sort of empowering....I know I do that well...LOL!!! And it is also sort of a comfort to me that he's willing to provide that still....if he was in a regular, okay relationship, he wouldn't be getting SF anywhere but there.......but he's not. When we were dating, he wouldn't have DREAMED of getting SF some place else, so that means there's something not quite right in fogland <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do his laundry if he wants me to....I don't mind doing it. I actually miss taking care of him, so when I get him here, I rub his feet and do whatever I can (Nothing over the top...just stuff I always have done). In short I take care of him....and he likes to be taken care of. I know the majority of my female friends take offense to me fixing his plate for him, and refilling his drink, etc. But it's never been about him demanding that of me, just something I wanted to do, and after 12 years of it, he's pretty used to it, and I'm SURE that she's not so accomodating.

I know my H, I don't know my WH all that well, but my H follows predictable patterns, and I know what he likes.....I didn't always do it, but I did know what to do.

I don't assume everything he says is a lie, I don't put stock in it....it may be the truth, it may be a lie, fact is it doesn't much matter right now. I am not putting him in a position where lying to me is necessary, but he does have to lie to her, and I'm absolutely fine with that...LMAO!!!

He doesn't insult me a whole lot, like a lot of other WS's, the one thing that stands out is he said I was boring....well, I know I'm not boring, so that didn't hurt at all.

Therapy is going decent, I still don't fully know who I am. I am supposed to be working on my *new needs* and *new wants*....well I haven't the foggiest what those are. Today I said "Damn, isn't there some book with the answers in it? Can't you just tell me what the answer is?!?! This is too hard" But alas, no one has the answer but me....and I'm going to emerge from this a different person, stronger and better in every way. I'm beginning to like me again, I am worth more than this, I don't deserve this treatment...I deserve to have my husband all to myself, and if I can't have that, then I don't want him.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> ....I'm going to emerge from this a different person, stronger and better in every way. I'm beginning to like me again, I am worth more than this, I don't deserve this treatment...I deserve to have my husband all to myself, and if I can't have that, then I don't want him.

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here, here! You are ready for plan B! Good luck

BM,BO

I agree.. I think you need to go into plan B. ASAP!!
Girl, how in the heck do you have SF with your WS and not feel sick? LOL! I can't even imagine being with my WS again.

Woo Hoo...LOL, you see those biceps I was flexing just then?? LMAO

-Caren

Okay guys, I'm going to go take a hot bath and rest....I didn't get a lot of sleep last night, and therapy kicked my butt today, I'm tore up from the floor up.

I'll be back on in the AM, hold down the fort for me LOL!!!

-Caren