</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, WAT - Question, I think I know your answer but should I give MIL OM's address? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I say yes. She asked for it, right? You didn't "recruit" her to do anything, right?

It's rare that a MIL will engage like this in support of the BS. Usually, as in my case, the ILs rally around the WS or refuse to get involved. So my knee jerk reaction is to take advantage of it.

She's the one who can most effectively ask, perhaps, how he can be such an "honest", "high integrity" type guy while carrying on with a married woman.

That said, this will immediately get back to your wife and you will become not only the scourge of the earth, but the scourge of the galaxy - because you turned her own mother against her. You've REALLY done it NOW!!! How could you?

Interested to hear Gimble's and any other's responses to this.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, WAT - Question, I think I know your answer but should I give MIL OM's address? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The action side of me says 'Yes', won't that be fun to watch. The practical side of me says that interference from an angry mother could have some serious effects on the affair.

So, lose the address for the mother-in-law, but I wouldn't be opposed to the name and phone number being slipped to her.

Edited to add: Yes, your MIL can look up the address from the phone number, but when questioned, MIL can claim that part - get it?

Oh, and lose the doting on your wife. Be loving, but distant. Always smiling, show concern. Steely-eyed heros can be tender, but they are never doting.

No touchy/grabby/feely/needy behavior. Most spouses hate that.

Gimble

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Gimble ]</small>

My observations are:

1. She has many female coworkers, of the "White Trash" group, that have had these type of issues that could be advising her.

2. She had previously had an appointment for a free consultation with an attorney and I talked her into cancelling it.

3. She has been extremely non communicative the last few days. Usually calls several times. In the last 2 days she has not called me at all? A definate change in her typical behavior.

4. She really wants me out, bad, so there certainly is a possibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> 4. She really wants me out, bad, so there certainly is a possibility. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first question is this. Do you have any major incidents that you need to tell us about?

Your providing accurate information is very important to us in helping you with a plan.

Better to come clean now, than have major surprises later.

Gimble

Do the letter ASAP.

Send a copy to MIL.

Make sure it's dated accurately.

It's unfortunate that you have to be embarking on "strategy" of this sort. It tends to soil the real intent of your letter, but this is messy business.

Ditto Gimble on the doting.

WAT

11 years ago, we had a argument and she got right in my face. I pushed her away and in the process her glasses cut her eyebrow. She did get a few stiches. I never not one time struck her. That is it, police never called to our house. Neither one of us has ever been arrested or in jail, fired from a job, never sued over anything, good credit. That's it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> 11 years ago, we had a argument and she got right in my face. I pushed her away.... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay. So, what are you going to do if she "gets in your face" again? You need a plan.

At some point in time, if she gets desperate enough, she may decide to 'push your buttons'. Have you thought about how you will handle that situation? You need to know now, because it is hard to think clearly, when you are angry.

Gimble

I will not get drawn into this I can assure you. I will go to a room and close the door.

Gimble, WAT, I called MIL to check her thoughts. We spoke for a good 20 min. She again wanted OM’s info to run a background check on him. I have not done so yet. She also told me that she had the utmost admiration and respect for me as a husband and father and that over the years she and WW had this conversation many times!! I was in tears hearing this. She is with me 100% and says she prays for us on a daily basis. She is very religious. Also she said that no one in their family had ever divorced and that they did not believe in it!!!

When you talk to her, explain that OM is not the problem. He's just the drug of choice. If she wants to put any energy into this, it ought to be directed at your wife. But also educate her a bit - explain what you know about this disease. Heck, get her a copy of SAA.

That said, perhaps a Mom's role ought to be different. Leave her to her own devices is the alternative posture for you.

Be very thankful that she is with you on this. Very thankful.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong>
Gimble, WAT, I called MIL to check her thoughts. We spoke for a good 20 min. She again wanted OM’s info to run a background check on him. I have not done so yet. ... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me give you the standard disclaimer. No one, can give you advice, either professionally or amateur, that can guarantee results in returning your wife to you. I just want you to realize that you are making your own decisions. We are simply offering the best advice that we can, given our limited understanding of your situation.

So, why the disclaimer? Am I concerned that you are off and about to mess up big time? Nope. I just don't want you to fall apart on us if you end up with a bloody nose. You are in a battle for your marriage. A bloody nose is not a lost battle.

Okay, back to the other stuff.

I think you should give your MIL the info, but do NOT tell her what to do with it. Let her figure that out for herself.

DO expect fallout from that action if you decide to take it. The Pros, it could end the affair. The cons, she is going to be mad as hell.

Gimble

WAT, I fully understand the advice disclosure and believe me I can stand a few bloody noses, also there is no guarantee that I will get my wife back.

Just got off the phone with MIL. She has a cool head and as best I can tell fully understands the condition WW is in. She is going to run a background check on OM. Also she understands not to contact OM and will not disclose our conversations or intentions to WW. She will only at this point continue to encourage WW to work on marriage. However, WW is not taking her phone calls. I have even been at home when she calls and WW will not answer the phone.

Sorry I ment Gimble on the disclosure.

Gimble, WAT, Last night a freind and I moved a couch, bed and kitchen table from the rental back to the house. WW was not home, she and DS went shopping. When they got home I said hi babe and she just looked at me, not a dirty look, just looked. As time went on she was very talkative and in a good mood for the rest of the night. Her mother called and she took the call! I don't know what they talked about but WW did not appear upset after the call. We watched some tv and WW asked me for a few things and I did them for her. I did not try to rub her feet or such and actually tried to not smother her. This morning she was still in the good mood and actually said goodbye before she left. No talk of divorce or for me to leave. WW did however bring up a HONEY DO LIST. WW said remember when I used to make a honey do list and in the beginning you would do them, but eventually you said that you would not and refused to do anything I put on the list. I told her that I really didn't remember much about it but that I was always doing things around the house just not what she put on the list. Truth be told our typical days in the past life would be she came home sit down and watched tv until 8pm and then went to bed. I would be outside working on something mabye not what she wanted but something that needed to be done. I kind of resented that she would make me a list and then sit and watch tv all night. I did not mention this to her and suspect this would be considered not being honest because I did not want to hurt her. Is this a fair observation? Also would you think that WW bringing up this issue is a beginning of her wanting to resolve past issues?

FL

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: FogLight ]</small>

Foglight,

It sounds if things are a bit better at home again. I’m glad! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I kind of resented that she would make me a list and then sit and watch tv all night. I did not mention this to her and suspect this would be considered not being honest because I did not want to hurt her. Is this a fair observation?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Foglight, I understand your fear of mentioning your resentment and disappointment to your W regarding this, especially since you’re in plan A and don’t want to have unnecessary conflict with your W, BUT, I think it is important to let your W know how you feel in an honest an open way without any LBers. So my advice is to do this by using using “I” messages and tell her how her past behavior made you feel e.g. ”I felt hurt when you….”, ” I felt resentful towards you when you…” etc. Don’t accuse her of anything… Just state how those incidences made you feel and leave it at that. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>would you think that WW bringing up this issue is a beginning of her wanting to resolve past issues?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it certainly is a possibility…but it’s also possible that your W is just testing you to see your reaction or to see if you are willing to resolve past issues.

Blessings,
Suzet

I think Suz's response is a good one. I'm glad she's keeping up with you to provide a female's perspective. Honey do lists seem to be universally treated the same by both men and women. Just another gender thingy, perhaps. It's reasonable to expect that two people, even two people of the same sex, would have differing priorities for tasks that need to be or could be accomplished.

My only addition to Suz's remarks is that ultimately, you and your wife will need to confront this issue and resolve it with radical honesty, but now is not the time. She very well could be testing you to get you to "break" so she can go on with her justifications for why you're so rotten.

But please don't try to over analyze her.

Did you see the UFO special on TV last night? There were interviews with real live alien abductees. These people are absolutely certain they've been "compromised" by aliens. Pretty weird. Almost as weird as a WS in the fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My point - do not underestimate the contortions your wife's mind could be going through. Her logic may be so twisted that it surpasses your wildest imagination. - and she is absolutely sure of herself, from moment to moment as she changes her mind and schemes.

WAT

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> .... When they got home I said hi babe and she just looked at me, not a dirty look, just looked. ....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In the future, try replacing "hi babe" with a huge, sincere, tender (remember, heros CAN be tender, just not doting) "Hello Beautiful", on occasion.

The conversation, to me, sounds like she is looking for buttons to push, but it is all tea leaves right now. Maybe she wanted you busy so she could talk to the other man, or maybe she had a good motive. Unless she is honest with you, there is no way to know, and there is no way to know when she might be honest while she is cheating.

Please go back and read what I said about tea leaves and planning for the worst.

As WAT said, there will come a time when BOTH of you will need to learn to be more straight forward and honest. That adjustment requires that BOTH spouses be committed to the relationship.

If there is an old marital issue that you know you have messed up, then you can apologize for it, but there is a better way to approach that situation, should it arise.

"Wife, I love you very much, and I absolutely will address any and all marital issues, including my contribution to the current state of the marriage, when you have ended all contact with the other man."

Hang in there, FL.

Gimble

Gimble, WAT and friends,

1. As far as day to day interaction, should I be asking WW to go out to for example movies, dinner etc? On a regular basis or every now and then.
2. If I plan on taking DS out should I ask her to go even if she has declined over and over?
3. Should I go out by myself in the evening to add some mystery for her to ponder about? I have read where if WW is on the fence that a little interaction with members of the opposite sex will sometimes wake them up. Could I use this to my advantage understanding not to mislead anyone or end up in an A myself.
4. Since WW has stopped calling me during the day, should I call her just to talk? Or just stay silent?
5. Last, WW seems to be deliberately making little messes everywhere. How do I handle this except for continuing to clean them up?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FogLight:
<strong> Gimble, WAT and friends,

1. As far as day to day interaction, should I be asking WW to go out to for example movies, dinner etc? On a regular basis or every now and then.
2. If I plan on taking DS out should I ask her to go even if she has declined over and over?
3. Should I go out by myself in the evening to add some mystery for her to ponder about? I have read where if WW is on the fence that a little interaction with members of the opposite sex will sometimes wake them up. Could I use this to my advantage understanding not to mislead anyone or end up in an A myself.
4. Since WW has stopped calling me during the day, should I call her just to talk? Or just stay silent?
5. Last, WW seems to be deliberately making little messes everywhere. How do I handle this except for continuing to clean them up? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Answers;

1) Treat her like you love her. Do family things, movies, etc. Not over the top, just normal.

2) Absolutely. Do it every time. Let her see what she is missing.

3) I personally think that is a dangerous game. Dress nice, smell nice, get your self in shape. Time in the gym lifting weights is a good idea, simply because heavy weight lifting shows almost immediate results. You look better, feel better and act better. She will notice.

4) If you have something to say, call her. Keep it short and sweet. You are a busy, steely-eyed hero.

5) Let her clean up her own messes unless they are in your way. Make sure you clean up all of your messes immediately and thoroughly.

All the best,
Gimble

ditto Gimble - especially on #3. No games. Trying to make her jealous means you have to be manipulative. A bad posture. I believe you can accomplish the same end by being independently yourself and improving yourself. That said, I cannot atest to the weight lifting. I HAVE been working out lately, though, on the stationary couch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

At some point you should consider starting new threads whenever you switch topics. You'll get more traffic and more heads on your sitch. As an example, I avoid perpetual threads because I don't want to jump in in the middle - not knowing what's already been said. Others may have this same logic, thus eliminating for you potentially good ideas.

WAT

Thanks Gimble and WAT. I will start a new thread on Monday. Wish me luck this weekend and God Bless.