Pep, or anybody,

Should I be doing more to teach my children about self worth? (when I say children I mean my boys, and my daycare kids too)

I strongly believe in positive discipline, positive reinforcement, setting up appropriate consequences, and being kind but firm. Is this enough for my kids, to learn self worth?????

My self worth was completely distorted at the hands of my mothers extreme verbal abuse. So for a person who is raised in a loving, encouraging atmosphere, do they just feel the self worth, is that enough to give them a sense of worth, or is their something more that needs to be taught????? Did I miss something in life that kept me from realizing I am worthy until the age 34? (shhhhh all the Idiots think I'm 29) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am a huge advocate for self worth in my kids. I think I have been doing it wrong. I have always made it aware I'm proud of them, I appreciate good behavior, this encourages them to please me, they see I'm happy with them and it makes them want to keep behaving well in order to please me. Doesn't this just say to them, they are only worthy, if "I" or somebody else thinks so????

I'm starting to think, I need to do more to encourage what they think about themselves. "You should be proud of yourself," instead of, "I'm proud of you." Maybe a Pride journal, something more specific.


Is their books?? All the books I read before were all about pleasing the parent, if you create an atmosphere for your children that you are proud of them than they will want to behave. My oldest son, 8, is the closest thing to a perfectly behaved child as one gets. However, I'm now worried I have put too much focus on what Mama thinks, and not enough on what he thinks of himself.

Just something that has been keeping me up late at night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KY

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

Oh, Jelly, this is a really good question!

Hi KY,

I'm not pep(obviously <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but I just wanted to share what I do with my two daughters(10 & 13),I don't have any sons.We have several open discussions about how the media(TV,radio,magazines,etc) also plays into people's feelings about themselves.It's one thing to show by example what you believe to be positive behavior and choices in the world as a parent but then to have children bombarded with images and actions that may speak differently,it can certainly send a confusing message especially to those kids who are caught up in celebrity and TV,etc.My D's are not at all.

Part of the self esteem I try to foster in my girls is about choices and about not falling into temptation or peer pressure just to be accepted.We talk about what it means to be a REAL friend and we also talk a lot about issues in todays society(age appropriate of course).For example,in the past couple of weeks,my girls and I have watched "Supersize Me" the movie about the McDonald's food chain and obesity.We also watched Oprah the other day which was about women who are "Addicted" to Plastic surgery.In that specific example,we talked about how my girls thought these women felt about themselves,about their image,their lives.We talked about choices and about the dangers and the effects on loved ones when we make certain choices,etc.I tried to empower them by saying,"It's ok to say no".That you can make a choice that doesn't seem to agree with mainstream but if it isn't right then don't do it,like smoking or drinking.I ask them,"What do you think about "this"?" And we talk.

Again,keeping an open dialogue about all issues in life today and making them feel safe to talk about whatever they want in a calm and secure environment helps my girls to feel like they have someone to talk to and can express their fears and anxieties.A big part of releasing these fears and facing them head on.It's a process.

I tell my girls that I love them just the way they are.I tell them that they are smart and that I have confidence in them.I constantly tell them every single day how much I love them and that I am so glad I had them.Things like this.It's all true.I cannot possibly go a day without saying I Love You to my girls at least once(I usually say it multiple times a day,it just keeps coming from my heart).I feel it is very important to show this to them and that they hear it.

I also feel that giving to charity,whether that is helping out at a local homeless shelter,saving and giving money to charity,baking pies for the shelter,organizing sales for school funding,etc,all can impact a child with respect to acknowledging we all have a duty to help one another in this world.It also helps my girls feel good about themselves,they light up when they help other's and give back to the community.I can see it on their faces.Responsibility and taking pride in a job well done helps foster self esteem.Chores and helping in the family also makes my girls feel worthwhile and important.

Anyway,I agree that this is a great topic to discuss.I hope we can keep this thread going a while.It certainly plays into how our kids will act in the future and I hope that we can start to turn the tide in people making the choice to cheat.I never want my daughters to go through this.

I have started to feel lately that maybe,maybe I am going through this so I can be the "one" to teach my girls about this firsthand and not have them endure it themselves or at least know how to deal with it or safeguard against it.I know in my case,I never saw it coming(my WH's choice) so there was nothing I could do to prevent that.

O

edited for typos

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Good idea KY!

Well I'm like O in that I say ILY all day long. We also talk endlessly about everything.

I want my DD to be confident and to be able to make her own choices, so I have started focusing on those two areas more.

One example is she wanted to quit basketball when she didn't get on the team she wanted on. I decided to let her, because I knew she would regret it and thought it a valuable lesson. Well about a month after she quit, when she how much fun the team was having she wanted to rejoin. Even the coach asked her to. I told her that since she let her teammates down in the beginning, now she had to live with that choice for the rest of the season. I told her that next year maybe she would think more of her team-mates than of herself when making decisions that affect the team (her quitting).

It was so hard to watch her cry and know how bad she wanted back on that team, but I felt she needed to learn something.

Then another thing I let her do was make homemade soup, all by herself. She likes to watch Emeril and wanted to make tomato soup, and so I said "okay, going to take a bath, don't cut your fingers off or burn the joint down". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

She did everything herself, then we ate the soup and raved and raved over it. She just beamed, and even cleaned up the huge mess she made.

These two things are huge for me and her, because I am afraid I have babied and spoiled her soooo much as a single mom.

Trying to change that now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have started to feel lately that maybe,maybe I am going through this so I can be the "one" to teach my girls about this firsthand and not have them endure it themselves or at least know how to deal with it or safeguard against it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">O, great post, thanks.

This is how I am feeling. I want to do more than just love my children, I want to prepare them for life, I want to teach them how to cope with issues that life will bring them.

We teach them to tie their shoes, to say please and thank you, but like you, I want to give them more. I want them to know they can say NO, I don't want them to place all their value in others opinions of them. I don't want them to make poor financial choices.

I'm all ready teaching my boy financial strategies. I think this is really important, we just send them out in the world and they basically learn from mistakes, what if we teach them how not to make some mistakes.

The same with infidelity, I want to teach my children how to affair proof their M, and they are only 3 and 8. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You can bet they will have a library full of books like, The Total Money Makeover, His Needs Her Needs, The 5 Love Languages. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just want more for my children, and I will strive to give them more, not material things, but knowledge.

BTW, I just so happen to catch that Oprah, I never get to watch her, but I seen this one the other day. It was disturbing.

I take great pride in the privilege God gave me to be a mother of 2 darling boys, I feel anybody can be their friend, only I can be their Mama.
KY

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

I'm not sure you can teach self worth. (feelings)

I am sure you can teach morals and ethics.(principles)

I think you can discuss news events, etc, and talk about the conflicting moral principles involved.

Our daughter's in confirmation class, she recently asked me about this senario they discussed in class:

A friend (teenager, like yourself) asks you to drive her to the abortion clinic, because her step-father impregnated her.

We discussed both sides. The issue of solving a dilemma using your principles and your feelings.

So.... can I teach my daughter self-worth.... I think not. But I can influence her in other ways that allow her to make good choices ---> which are more likely to give her self worth.

Pep

Jelly, With my DD I talk to her a lot about how beautiful she is inside and out. We talk about the beauty on the outside is not what really counts but what you have in your heart. DD struggles in school and often is discouraged. I tell her that intelligence comes in many different packages and she is smart in many ways and that struggling in school does not make her "stupid". For DD I really encourage her to follow what she is taught in the bible. She is such an example of the light of Jesus in someone's heart and eyes. I have never seen someone so generous and loving as she is.

My DS21 I am afraid I was a single mom for quite a while so it took a while but he is emerging as a lovely young man. I think he is beginning to see himself as a worthwhile person. Unfortunately for DS I had all sorts of issues of my own when he was growing up.

Hugs, Jelly. Hope you are ok. I am having some self worth issues of my own lately so good time for me to do some thinking. {{Jelly}}

Pep said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But I can influence her in other ways that allow her to make good choices ---> which are more likely to give her self worth.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I'm doing that, I just needed to know if I was missing something. Thank you, you are always insightful.

Weaver, I have doted on my family to the point they are all handicaped, and that includes my H. I'm also learning to bend and give them opportunities to be independant, my 3yo has taken to this, and loves it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My 8 yo, is still so use to Mama doing everything for him, he is clueless in my presence, a boy who is moved up a grade because of his brillance is clueless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Faith, your dd sounds lovely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your son is 21, I'm guessing you did the best you knew how at that point in your life, be proud that he has became a fine young man.

I know my mom did the best she could, she has never dealt with her demons, she did not break the mold of her parents. I have, I'm thankful my mother taught me how NOT to be a mother. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Truly I am, I'm a better parent because of the kind of parent she was.

She happens to be a wonderful grandma, I have a new found love and respect for both her and my father because of the kind of grandparents they are. I have forgiven them for the kind of parents that they were.

Thanks all for your responses.

KY (Jelly)

I think self worth isn't really teachable, it's a benign virus we infect kids with. It spread through their systems and protects them.

I have 3 children. We are good friends and talk all the time. Although still in school and financial dependent, my oldest 2 are men and men well worth knowing. When they were boys, they got into all sorts of "boy" trouble with occasional calls from the law and school principal. Some people had their doubts about how my sons would turn out. However, the boys got past that to be excellent students and great people. So far, DD is a great student and avoiding the authority problems. Maybe that comes later for girls. I'm gearing up for the teen girl thing.

My advice?

1) Start young in helping them to make decisions. The more practice one gets at making decisions, the better one gets at it. When it comes to a crucial point, drugs-no drug?, joyride-no joyride? Kids are better equipt to make the right decision.

2) Always be an advocate for your child. That doesn't mean your kid is always right. It means you are a voice for them when necessary. A kid in the principal's office or confronted by a bully or in an unfair situation may not know what to say. You can help give them the words. You are behind them, not in front of them.

3) Judicious praise and fair critism: Not too much of either and where deserved. Sometimes, people try to teach self-esteem by praising every little thing a kid does. I think that warps it.

4) Be involved with your child's life and their education. Know their friends and activities. It gives you something to talk about. It helps you know who your kids are. Ask the questions: who, what, where, why and when will you be home. Find opportunities to be with your child like take your kid to breakfast.

5) Support but do not push. Let your kids find their own interests and talents. Help open the doors but don't push them through it. Everybody has seen parents living vicariously through their children...the "I was a great football player, so you will be a great football player!" Sometimes that works for kids but a lot of times it doesn't. My kids excell at things I have never even attempted but what they love to do.

6) A good sense of what is right and wrong. I think this has to be taught by example. I suppose you can get it through church. Our family doesn't go (for many reasons) but my kids know what is right. They know about helping others, giving, sharing, and have good values. If a parent goes to church but treats others like crap or cheats on their taxes or lies, what kind of rolemodel is that?

7) Remember, every kid is different. They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. What works for one, may not work for another.

8) Give them room to make mistakes. You can learn a lot from your mistakes especially when you're young and the consequences aren't as severe.

9) Love, love, love. Be there for them.

About childrearing, my feeling has been that I'm trying to raise good adults, not good children. Good kids sit down and shutup and don't ask questions. Do we want adults that do that?

EXcellent post GG!

Loved it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Along the lines of FF and O'girl with young girls and physical looks. This is a big one for me as my DD has put on quite a bit of weight since the 50/50 thing started, also her grades have dropped.

The saying "beauty is as beauty does" is something my DD (and her friends) hear from me quite regularly. When they do something especially noteworthy I always try to use the terminolgy "you are beautiful! or something like that to show the connection. I DO NOT want an anorexic on my hands, or someone who feels they don't measure up to Britney Spears (puke).

I learned on I'ville from RIF or Mr E. or someone that if kids want something they need to work for it. He said his kid wanted a computer game so was told he must get on the honour role, but missed by one grade - so mo computer game.

That made a huge impression on me, so when my DD wanted a puppy I told her if she got on the honour role we would start looking. Well she ended up with a C, so no puppy this time.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Maybe next time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Weaver ... that's teaching your DD something valuable to take with her the rest of her life... "Want some good perks in life?" ---> "Good perks must be earned."

In our house ---> our DD is getting near driver's license age. House rule ---> "No B's = no keys" ... Her grades reflect her efforts which determine her perks. If she wants it enough, she will go the extra mile.

Pep

Not even one "B" Pep?

I like it! And using the car is a priv (perk, like that too), one that should not be given lightly.

My little one is not yet capable of all A's, but I will keep pushing for better from her.

With tremendous respect to Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and others: I for one believe that self-worth is absolutely a learned response and can therefore be deemed a choice. As my sometimes frustrating tendency is to view sensitive issues from "outside the box"; I should probably try to explain (in short-form):

Consider that "Eve" is born into a family of positive thinking, God-loving, family-oriented parents & siblings. As Eve experiences life as a child and pre-teen, her emotions (feelings) are recognized, respected and nurtured by Dad, Mom, sisters and brothers. Eve's life is balanced between praise for good deeds, proper discipline for not-so-good deeds, and status quo for normal every-day deeds. Eve is loved and shown love all days, no matter her actions. Basically, by the time Eve is 13; her value system has been formed primarily by her life-experiences. Eve will most likely grow up with a healthy level of self-worth and will act & react accordingly.

Now consider that "Eve" was born into a family where Dad and Mom are alcoholics or worse. (Trying to remain non-judgmental here!) Parents have issues ranging from adultery to arrests & convictions to in-home violence, etc. Basically, none of Eve's emotions are recognized and worse; when Eve does show her emotions; positive or negative, she is admonished or punished as "weak, selfish, promiscuous" or worse. As we know; especially as a teen and young adult, Eve is most likely going to grow up to be insecure, needy, clingy and so on. All of which is directly related to self-worth.

This is all purely my humble opinion, with a healthy dose of experience included - so proceed with caution! The shame of all of this is that it should not matter whether self-worth is genetic or learned; all children should be treated with the respect and tenderness deserved!

FR

FR, thank you for your post. So see this is all my mother's fault. I knew it!!!!!!!! Just kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Are you saying self worth is a direct result of our up bringing, we are a product of our environment and until we break free from that environment, we will not be able to feel our worth?????

I might be thinking to much, doesn't happen often, but I might have just over ananlyzed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Weaver, I believe that was RH who said that about his son. I agree very much with that concept. Consistancy and sticking to your word, really pays off. RH's son I'm sure knew he would not get his computer. It isn't fear, it is a respect, I lived in fear, and their is a big difference.

KY, I thought of a book last night that I think is really, really good for mothers of little boys.

It's that John Eldridge book that Pepper had that thread going on a while back, "Wild at Heart".

You and ST would both probably get a lot out of it, if you haven't already read it.

A lot of good points in there about the nature and psyche of boys (they're not like littl girls, ya know. And some advice about what not to do to them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you saying self worth is a direct result of our up bringing, we are a product of our environment and until we break free from that environment, we will not be able to feel our worth?????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KY4: Yes and no. Yes - our self-worth is basically established as a direct result of our environment; particularly from our family, beginning at an early age.

Do we have to break free from that environment in order for our self-worth to be affected? Not necessarily! Do you know anyone who was raised in an alcoholic family, but does not drink and appears to have healthy self-worth? Most of us know someone like this. These fortunate souls learned early in life that they did not desire to be like those they love who are making grave mistakes and made the conscious (and hard) choice to live otherwise. However; I believe that most people do have to "break away" from an environment that breeds poor self-worth in order to learn to feel worthy about themselves!.

My simplistic answer to all of this is: "Whether we have a positive or negative sense of self worth is our choice alone to make." (There are those who may help us achieve a healthy self-worth; however they ultimately bear no responsibility at all to our sense of self-worth. Each of us owns that emotion alone.)

Make sense?

FR

Fishracer, this is a very insightful post. You spoke volumes to me. Printing this out, so I can read it again and again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My simplistic answer to all of this is: "Whether we have a positive or negative sense of self worth is our choice alone to make." (There are those who may help us achieve a healthy self-worth; however they ultimately bear no responsibility at all to our sense of self-worth. Each of us owns that emotion alone.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For somebody who has looked for self worth in others all her life, this helps so much. You really put this into perspective with this paragraph. I do understand this now, I'm still working on it everyday.


This is why I wrote the thread FWW not anymore, the one you didn't really understand, or the one you disagreed with. I'm making a choice, to not feel like a "FWW" what society thinks of them, I am not, I have made changes so I am no longer such a "type" of person. I'm still me, but I do not want to be the stereotypical FWW for life. I'm not trying to change history, just giving up the opinion that goes with the title. I'm more than that, and I'm shedding that title. It is not a healthy choice for myself to always think of me as such. I'm making the choice for myself so I can have positive self worth.

I never felt any kind of worth until the day I moved out of my parents house. A lightbulb turned on, and I was FREE!! I still had lots of work to do on myself, but at the time, I didn't know it.


Thank you so much FR for your post.

Weaver, I have jotted down that book, thank you. We are great parents, I really have no questions on how to parent, I do a great job of that all ready, I just needed to know if I was missing something in the "worth" area. I see I am not. Thank you all.

KY

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why I wrote the thread FWW not anymore, the one you didn't really understand, or the one you disagreed with. I'm making a choice, to not feel like a "FWW" what society thinks of them, I am not, I have made changes so I am no longer such a "type" of person. I'm still me, but I do not want to be the stereotypical FWW for life. I'm not trying to change history, just giving up the opinion that goes with the title. I'm more than that, and I'm shedding that title. It is not a healthy choice for myself to always think of me as such. I'm making the choice for myself so I can have positive self worth.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that "society" is one of the key words in your statement above. The fact that most of society is highly judgmental makes it harder than ever to grow our self-worth. I do think it's important that we listen to what "society" has to say about our actions for check & balance reasons; however we should never, ever allow society (or anyone) to affect our self-worth. (Either positively or negatively!) Should we enjoy hearing that we are doing good? Absolutely, because it feels good to hear it, particularly from someone we love and respect. But we should never, ever give someone enough power to affect our self worth! That is ours to take care of!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never felt any kind of worth until the day I moved out of my parents house. A lightbulb turned on, and I was FREE!! I still had lots of work to do on myself, but at the time, I didn't know it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah; I know what you mean about the lightbulb. I am extremely fortunate in that I realized as a teen that I was in charge of my own self-worth and held on tightly to that. WXW still requires verbal validation from men for her self-worth and is being used by those who exploit this weakness in her for their own reasons. (Telling her whatever she "needs" to hear, regardless of the reality for their own physical pleasure...!) She is such a beautiful woman with awesome potential yet she is rapidly losing everything in life. However; I cannot help her. Our DD's cannot help her. She must help herself! I hope & pray that she finds the strength one day.

You sound good KY. Wishing you & H all the best!

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />