I am new here and have been reading a lot of the posts. I really need help in figuring out what to do. I would appreciate any and all advice. Basically it comes down to how much more am I willing to take, I guess. Here is my story.

My husband of 25 years (together 28) has been having a relationship with OW for the last 2 1/2 years. I found out on New Years Eve. He is an alcoholic and sometimes cocaine user as well. He decided to seek treatment and begged me to not leave him. He swore he would give her up, that she meant nothing to him, etc, etc. I decided that I would try to get past this and try to save our marriage. However, within a week of his release from rehab, he was calling her. Within days, the relationship was back on. I was, of course, watching pretty closely and found them out within a week or so.

Again, I hear all the usual lies. He claimed the alcoholism had clouded his judgment. That he really loved me and wanted our marriage to work. He would do anything to make it up to me. He begged for just "one last chance". Against my better judgment and because I really do love him, I agreed. I told him that if he had any more contact with her of any kind whatsoever, I would immediately file for divorce.

I asked him to go with me to visit her because I wanted him to tell her it was over and that there would be no more contact whatsoever. He told her that he loved me and that we were going to work on our marriage. He actually did this, so I thought...OK, maybe there is hope, maybe he really does love ME.

Well, that was last Friday. On Monday, he called her at 10am and arranged a meet near his office after work at 4:30pm. I just happened to see them leaving a side road in their respective vehicles. He denied all of course, but that was just too much of a coincidence for me. Once all was finally out, he claimed that he asked her to meet him because he wanted to make sure that she "really" understood that it was over and that there would be no more contact. Because he didn’t think she believed him……Another lie I am sure. I told him that his explanation made absolutely no sense whatsoever! Which it doesn't. How is she ever going to be convinced if he keeps meeting her???? I asked him if that was the case, then who was he REALLY trying to convince...her or himself?

I have an appointment with an attorney next week. I feel I have no choice at this point. Even though that is not what I really want.... He is obviously not willing to give up the relationship with this woman! The lies just go on and on.

He is still trying to convince me to not file for divorce. I am what he wants, not her he says.. But if so, then why is he willing to risk everything to see her? Why can't he give her up? I think he believes his own lies at this point. Maybe he really is in love with her and just can't give her up.

I have read that the affair has to run its course. OK, 2 1/2 years is a pretty long course. At this point, after everything that has happened, I don't know what to believe or think! I don't know which way to turn and I don't know what to do.

My survival instinct says to divorce him and try to move on with my life. I don't think I will EVER be able to trust him again. I will forever be waiting to catch them together again. Why am I allowing my heart to be broken over and over again? What is wrong with me?????

Welcome. As long as your husband continues drinking, your marriage will probably suffer. Has he given up drinking for good?

Is the OW married?

Do you have adult children? If so, describe them, including their relationship with their Dad.

Do you have any common friends or acquaintences with this OW? What do they know about the affair?

The affair DOES have to run its course - but often the clock doesn't start until the wayward spouse has the OP exclusively, without your involvement.

He sounds like he needs to think about losing you - really losing you. DO NOT make any more threats about divorce, unless you are determined to go thru with it. He'll just assume you'll cave like you've done before, despite his failed assurances.

Hi Again
Yes we do have a son who is 24 and at the moment his relationship with is Dad is...to say the least...strained. He can't believe his Dad is doing this. We also have a 10 year old son who doesn't really know why Dad is not staying here. Even though his Dad told him that he had done some bad things and that because of that he couldn't live here with us right now, etc. But the 10 year old keeps saying I should just forgive Dad and let him come home.

I did not know the OW and no there are no common friends. He has kept her pretty well hidden from everyone except his best friend....and partner in crime...also an alcoholic. I haven't spoken to the best friend since all this came out.

He is currently sober...again..this time for a a week. The second time when I found them out, I kicked him out of the house and he went and got drunk for the entire weekend. I believe he is working on staying sober. He is seeking treatment and attending AA meetings as well.

The problem is that he can't seem to stay away from her. It is like his addiction to her is more powerful than the alcohol addiction.

She is not married and is very blatant about her relationship with my husband. She has known from the beginning that he was married and apparently doesn't care or maybe she thought he would eventually leave me for her. I dont know.

Frankly I want to just kill her. Obviously that is not an option. How long am I supposed to wait???? Even if it does end for good, how do I know it won't begin again sometime down the road????

OK, you didn't mention before - or I missed it - that he is out of the house.

The alcohol/drug issues certainly complicate this, and is a problem unto itself. But have you performed a self critique to identify and fix any contributions you were making to the poor state of the marriage? This is the essence of Plan A.

If you have fixed your problems, then Plan B may be appropriate. Perhaps you've mostly already done this from a practical standpoint and not know it. What are the conditions under which you have established for him to come home? Are you sure he understands this? What have you allowed for him for family visitation, etc? What are your financial arrangements during this time?

A good next step for you may be a REAL Plan B. Write him a letter professing your love and wishes to rebuild your marriage, admit your shortcomings, and commit to doing everyhing you can do to keep your family together. But first, he HAS to completely sever all ties with OW and agree to NEVER EVER see her again. Until such time as he's ready to commit to this, you cannot associate with him whatsoever (except for very limited contact related to your younger son). Cut him loose. No talk, no visiting, no coming home, no nothing. You play hard ball. This forces him to get EVERYTHING from OW - and guess what? It won't be there.

In the meantime, expose this sordid relationship to everyone important in both his life and her life. Remove any secrecy about it that may still be present.

This is the reader's digest version of Plan A and Plan B. There are many subtleties to it all. Please get a copy of Surviving An Affair to get the full explanation.

He is ripe for the effects of Plan B. The alcohol/drug issues HAVE to be resolved as well, and you can make this part of your Plan B conditions, I think. I have NO experience dealing with those problems, but plenty of experience is out there. You have to do the leg work, probably.

One important thing for you to consider: this is not about OW. She is only his useful idiot, another drug of choice. This is about you, him, and your marriage.

WAT

Don't plan A a substance abuser .... it's a license to continue on the same path (as far as the addict is concerned).

Plan B his butt .... and don't allow him back in the home until he has a minimum 6 months sobriety proven by attending AA/CA meetings. You need to speak directly with his sponsor before you end Plan B.

Really .... this is what works in situations like yours.

With love,

Pep

PS

Marriage counseling does not work if one of the spouses is an addict or is still seeing the OP...

Save yourself aggrivation and lost time ( not to mention wasted $$ ).... no MC until sobriety and NC are BOTH well-proven facts.

Pep

Thanks for the advice. The thing is, he seems really remorseful about everything and he swears that the A is absolutely over. He loves me and our family and is devastated that I am considering divorce. The question is...how do I know that the A is really over? The lies he has told over and over have caused me to believe so little of what he says. I want to believe him, but I can't.

Another thing, MB suggests moving away, even to another state. We really can't do that since we have a business here. It isn't possible. How am I ever going to know that the A has not resumed? Even months or years later?

About plan B. I have identified thru this site that she was fulfilling some of his needs, 1 being sex of course and another recreational. With us being apart, isn't that likely to make him more apt to seek her out again???

He calls me several times a day and I have a hard time NOT talking to him. I try to detach but I can't! I hate that we are apart but I am so afraid of being hurt again.

The business is another reason Plan B is so hard. I have to talk to him sometimes about business.

I am so confused!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by painpainpain:
The thing is, he seems really remorseful about everything and he swears that the A is absolutely over. He loves me and our family and is devastated that I am considering divorce. The question is...how do I know that the A is really over? The lies he has told over and over have caused me to believe so little of what he says. I want to believe him, but I can't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The "I want to believe him" in absence of ANY proof by way of his showing sustained good behavior, is evidence of your illness.

You are the spouse of an addict. I was too. My H was an alcoholic at the time of his affair. He swore he'd quit OW and he'd quit drinking ... but when I said to him,

"You have to go to AA meetings."

He said, "Why can't I just stop drinking?"

"I said, because you have an illness. You need treatment. It's AA or it's 'goodbye'. You choose."

He choose AA, 9 years ago, and he is now a man who I would trust with my life! WITH MY LIFE!

If your H stops his A .... is he a man you would trust with your LIFE? With your childrens' lives?

He's an addict. Do you know how to tell when an addict is lying to you?

.... his lips are moving.....

YOU need to go to an Al-Anon meeting. Just go. And share your story. Get some insight into YOUR sickness and how it is intertwined with your H's sickness.

Stop enabling him. He needs treatment, and unless you draw a very thick and firm boundary that you will not live with an addict, he's going to use and use and maybe even DIE!

Please, go to Al-Anon.

You are married to an addict. Most addicts have affair after affair. This is not about this particular OW. Your H lives to get 'high'. The OW is just another drug. Addicts are expert conflict avoiders and have very poor impulse control. This will not be his final affair as long as he's using. Your H is a loose cannon in your life. Insist he get addiction treatment, if not, prepare for more of the same.

With love,

Pep

PPP

Plan B his butt. Hes got you and the OW right where he wants you going back and forth

A: From addiction to alcohol and drugs

B: From OW

C: Dragging you in and out of the chaos

You gotta show WH you mean business.

My Plan B started 2/6/05 and she is trying everything to keep connected to me. On another post I promised to give up pushing both issues at once. Until the alcohol/drug addiction is being dealt with through recovery for some period of time you will ride the merry-go-round and never be able to figure it out. Common sense to you (and most "normal" people) will be turned into non-sense. That is the nature of addictions.

Plan B Him hard for NC with him until some measure of sobriety is achieved. It will empower you in a way you wont believe.

With just the short time in Plan B my W is on a waiting list for treatment and is also working with a doctor for a new drug that is supposed to help with alcoholism. She has not done any of this in the last three month of being seperated. I was still there helping her and ENABELING her.

NO MORE ENABELING OR THE SITUATION WILL REMAIN THE SAME.

All this she has done this week. As part of my Plan B agreement I will help her to achieve sobrietyas long as she helps herself. When 3 months of sobriety is achieved we will see where the situation is at.

Hope this helps.

Jerry

Thanks for your replies. I know he is an addict.I know he is addicted to alcohol and drugs and HER. I also recognize that I am an enabler. I have gone to several AA and Al Anon meetings and I figured that out right away. I have also been reading up on the subject and am trying to change.

He is sober, coming up on 14 days this time, he made it to 22 last time. He is still in treatment with the detox center 4 times a week and goes to AA meetings almost every day.

He has sworn off the A, BUT, I am having a hard time believing him since he swore off it before and still continued to see her. Since I recognize that he is also addicted to her, I am keeping close tabs on him at the moment, and I don't believe he is talking to her right now. However, I can't have him followed for the rest of my life. The trust will have to be rebuilt and I understand that. So does he.

We are currently living apart...since the last time I found out he was seeing her. I told him I was filing for divorce. He has sworn the A is over for ever and that he will do whatever is necessary to save our marriage.

We talked today about a written "contract" for reconcilliation which will of course include absolutely no contact, no drinking no drugs, AA, continued treatment for addiction, marriage counseling as well as, individual counseling, Al Anon for me and work on learning how best to meet each others emotional needs and all around improving and strengthening our marriage and our family. I am thinking a 2 to 3 month timeframe. Then we take another look to see where we are. In the meantime, we delay the divorce. He is in agreement.

I would like your input. This would sort of be a Plan A, but already separated. If this doesn't work, it will become apparent pretty quickly and at that point, I can move to the down and dirty Plan B.

What do you think? By the way, thanks to all who have replied to my posts. It is wonderful to have such a resource available during this terrible time!

PPP

My S is still in an A with Captain Morgen and Mr. Miller Beer. Until she makes up her mind to never take the first drink/drug-WHICH SHE IS RESPONSABLE FOR-there is not much I can do.

I can quit enabling her-which empowers me-I can work the 12 steps of Al-Anon-which empowers me-I can look at all the suggestions presented to me and pick and choose which ones I will do or try-they still all empower me.
Thats what taking care of yourself is about-regardless of what the alcoholic/addicted person is doing or not doing in their recovery.

The process of recovery from alcohol addiction doesn't really have a timetable but its been studied that it can take about eight years for the affected to feel "normal". A lot of it depends on the persons motivation and willingness.
It is a journey your now on and not a specific event that will "make everything all right".

A few meetings have helped you to gain some knowledge. Applying that knowledge to your life and living it is a totally different thing.

IMO-Until your H (clean and sober) achieves some length of sobriety he will act like a WH. To me at 22 days he still has a fog from the booze and drugs-depending on how much he did. Alcohol and chemical addiction develop there own fog just as A's do. He needs to to work on his own recovery.

IMO-You need to work on your own recovery-Work on taking care of yourself. An excellent book to read would be Co-dependant No More by Melody Beattie. Most bookstores have it on the shelf. It deals directly with the issue and has a lot of exercises in it that will empower you.

Alcoholism/drug addiction is a family disease and the people involved can become just as sick or sicker than the user. The user stops-get recovery-and trys hard to stay clean and sober. What type of treatment did you get through all this? Mixing in an A with it creates a totally different type of situation. It may be a BIG LOVEBUSTER to try and deal with the A so soon after sobriety is achieved. I'm not saying you should not place some type of clear boundries out in front of him but be prepared to carry them out if he doesn't keep his end or don't place them out there at all if you can't keep your end.

I hope your situation gets better. At this time my W does try to get sober but thinks she can do it all herself. It still feels like the A is going on bc there is not much behavior change when she only achieves a few days of sobriety. I went to Plan B a week ago since she has not had more than 5 days of sobriety since the end of Sept. She now clearly knows the boundries and knows I am willing to enforce them. Take it easy. Please keep going to Al-Anon-Thats where we learn how to deal with an alcholic loved one. Find a sponsor you can trust. Work the steps. It does work and there is hope. It just takes time.

Hope I've been some help

Jerry