This is the fourth week of my renewed plan B. Things were going perfectly until last night. My STBXW wanted to talk about the schedule with the kids this coming weekend. She had been very good about leaving it at that, but I guess the pressure got to be too much for her.

Before I knew it I was in a conversation about us and the kids. It got out of hand in a hurry. About ten minutes into it I came to my senses and told her that I needed to get off the phone but I would finish the conversation with her within the next couple of days. I know I shouldn't have said that, I was just trying to get off the phone.

Anyway, since I told her I would do this I thought I would just write her a short letter explaining again where I'm at and be done with it. I wanted to post it to see if I said too much or not enough or whatever. Just so you know we are getting a D. I don't see anything changing that at this point.

W,

I thought a lot about what you told me the other night. I actually had a VERY long letter written where I responded to a lot of what you said. There is so much you said that I disagree with I hardly knew where to start. But as I read over all I had written I realized that there was really nothing new in it. So I shortened it a lot.

There are a few things I wanted to go over real quick. First the kids. This one is getting old and I am not going to talk about it with you again after this. We simply have a difference of opinion on what is in their best interest. I have not made any decisions about anything that has to do with the kids (or anything else for that matter) to try and punsih you. I know it and YOU know it too. You just need a reason to be mad at me so you can justify your decisions and this one works for you. So be it.

You have continued to pursue relationships with other men. You have decided that you prefer that over trying to work on things with me. I have tried as hard as I know how to get you to stop and take a look at the damage you are doing to us and our family and to try a different way. You have refused, this is the course you have decided to take. I am not willing to watch you continue to do these hurtful things any longer. So I am letting you go. I hate having to do it but I don't see any other option at this point. Until you are willing to stop seeing other people and stop all contact with the men you have been seeing there is nothing more we need to talk about. After two years of this I have come to the hard realization that you very well may never get to that point so I need to move on.

It is too hard for me to spend time talking with you and seeing you while this is going on. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to find some peace. I would ask again that you stop contacting me. If it has something to do with the kids then leave a message for me and I will get back to you in someway about it. Otherwise I don't see anything positive coming out of us talking.

Somewhere down the road if I start to look like a guy you might be interested in let me know. I don't see myself gettng married again right away so I would probably be open to the idea! If not I wish you happiness in your life and will never regret the time we have had together. God Bless You.


So what do you think?

I would get rid of the part abou the other men and the last paragraph - I thought in plan B wyou weren't supposed to talk about your feeling ect. Who knows maybe I am wrong maybe one of the good planBer's will answer you better than I.

starman:

Most of it reads like a vent, and you should probably omit that.

Some permutation of the following shortened version might be better, in my view:

"W,

I thought a lot about what you told me the other night.

There are a few things I wanted to go over. First the kids. I have not made any decisions about anything that has to do with the kids (or anything else for that matter) to try and punsih you.

You have continued to pursue relationships with other men. You have decided that you prefer that over trying to work on things with me. I am not willing to watch you continue to do these hurtful things any longer. So I am letting you go.

It is too hard for me to spend time talking with you and seeing you while this is going on. I would ask again that you stop contacting me. If it has something to do with the kids then leave a message for me and I will get back to you in someway about it.

I wish you happiness in your life and will never regret the time we have had together. God Bless You."

along those lines?

-ol' 2long

I w/b more specific on how she s/b contacting you. 3rd party or e-mail, voicemail, etc. Be specific.

I like the other men paragraph.

But I think you should not be so available as you were in your last paragraph. Maybe change it to read more like, 'when you are able to view our family and R in a loving way, then you can talk to me. NO guarantees here, but when our family and R was doing well, those are the happy times I choose to remember. Hope you do also. '

Well something like that. Don't want you to appear to be pathetic or just waiting for her to return. That would fuel the WS' greedy heart. To know she has you in the bag. You don't want to be her 2nd choice.

JMHO,
L.

I would pare it down even further and not include anything about the kids.

A lawyer friend of mine said "don't write or email anything you don't want used in court." Don't want to write or say anything that can be used, taken out of context (and most words can). Your statement about the kids could sound like you don't care...

I would say a short note that read...

You have continued to pursue relationships with other men. You have decided that you prefer that over trying to work on things with me.

I don't see anything positive coming out of us talking.

(Restate how communication needs to go in Plan B and refer to past letter.)

Thanks all. I do call her out about the kids. It's just that she has used my unwillingness to give her what she wants as far as custody goes as her reason for not being able to feel good about trying to R with me.

Our try at R ended because she wanted me to sign custody papers for her ahead of time. It's the biggest roadblock she sited last night too. The reason behind it is exactly what I said. It's the only thing she can find to be angry with me about so she's using if as her excuse for everything.

Yep, make sense to many (heavy sarcasm warning...)

"I'm going to continue to D you because you won't D me the way I want...If you did D me the way I wanted...I would...well...I would...consider...hmm."

wait a minute starman..

four weeks in to renewed plan b..

she's pushing buttons...escalating attention seeking behavior..

and YOU'RE ready to write her a long letter giving her the attention and fix she craves..
the type of contact where you say I'm not dating anyone...so look me up if you ever want to...!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Starman...put your head near your monitor..please...

TAP TAP TAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

smack ya right in the middle of your forhead... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

man you give in easy....

please don't send the email..
go darker
go deeper..

free yourself..

ARK

Thanks everyone. I started thinking about the conversation I had with my STBXW after the replies I got. It was all kind of a blur so it took me a while to sort through it.

She called me to talk with me about the kids at first. I was quick to get off the phone and then she called right back. Answering again was my mistake. She asked me why I was being mean to her by getting off the phone so quickly all the time. I told her I didn't think I was being mean, that I thought I was pretty clear in my letter about what was going on.


She asked me what I thought of the fact that she wanted to get a D BEFORE she tried to R with me. She has said that she needs this to feel like she could start over again and do it right the next time.

I told her it didn't matter what I thought of her idea, the fact was that I needed to get a D after all that's happened because I needed to feel safe with mine and the kid's situation.

That's what set her off. She told me that it was all about trying to control things for me and that she had a real problem with that. She also said that I was trying to get custody to punish her. She ended up telling me that she would go to court and if she didn't get the amount of time with the kids that she needed she wouldn't be able to stand it. She knew that she wouldn't be able to take the emptiness she has felt in her heart for the last two years and that would force her to have another child with someone else and start another family!

WOW! I guess that was supposed to scare me. Actually it did in a way. I think she might be NUTS! The thing is, even if I got custody exactly the way I have it drawn up in the D papers and she followed it to the letter she would be seeing the kids MORE than she has the last two years. Somewhere inside that fogged out brain of hers she knows that, doesn't she?

She knows all she has to do is call and she could see the kids anytime she wants. She doens't even knock when she comes over to the house, it's that comfortable here for her. Anyway, I shortened my letter to about five lines and left the last paragraph off completely. I felt much better about it after that. She got it last night so hopefully this will mean at least a little stretch of peace.

Starman, Starman, Starman,

You have done so much for me in keeping my sanity in check...now I need to return the favor.

You are right, she is a little off-centered now. And you are right that she seems to have the same qualities as my H. How I am starting to treat my situation is by doing this...

a. Mentally divorce the person and get all of my anger out (even write the fiery feelings down on paper).
b. Breathe deep, then take a long break from the negative thoughts.
c. Then revisit those feelings and look at their actions from their perspective (I know this is a stretch when someone as normal as you and I would scratch our heads at what our spouses do).
d. Then recall your actions and reactions and from their perspective, did it come off as aggressive, combative, or venting? From our perspective it is not the case, but from their point of view, they may be taking a total opposite view.

This week I finally realized that I married a 15 year old and not the 44 year old I thought I married. His maturity growth stopped when a tragic incident took place in his teenage years. The reason I say this is because tantrums and impulsive behaviours is what a child would do. When my H called me last Saturday, I felt myself talking to him like his Mom. You won't believe how calm and receptive he was to me. When I hung up, I just thought that 'this is freaky weird'. I even almost had a feeling of disgust...like I really did marry a kid. But I know this is how I have to talk to him so he can listen to me and not shut me out.

Your W had some behavour impacting issue in her youth. I would almost bet whatever age it took place, is the maturity level she is living through now. I bet if you talked to her at the maturity level of where she is, she will stop and listen to you.

I wish you hadn't sent the letter just yet, since it has only been a month (I am rolling into month 3 myself), but since you did, there is still hope for R, if you still want it. That is the thing, like you told me; you have to be willing to put up with the tantrums and such. I suspect the reason you sent the letter was because of the severe pain and turmoil you are going through. Keep busy and when the deep pain gets so bad, vent it out, talk to friends, cry it out, and let go of it. Because it is not your fault...she is the one unhappy with herself and want cause the pain.

If you want R, then the letter you sent can be the contract to tell her you are in Plan B (which you say you were in Plan B, but she was still allowed to come over...that confuses me) and back off until she gets herself straightened out. I will almost bet, she will get a wake-up call when she gets your letter...be prepared for harassment, but just stand your ground. (Starman, you of all MB members have personally kept me going everyday, so I can't let you fall) When she calls, tell her you are busy for lengthy discussions (eventhough you may be bored silly). Keep conversations on a professional manner and only in the concern of the kids. It will put her in cold turkey mode.

My H will start to get some cold turkey from me. He shut me out and put us in Plan B (before I ever heard of MB) and disconnected our phones and everything. The only way I could send him my thoughts were by letter to his Mom's house. Of course he never replied. But in the past 3 weeks (which is 2 months after he walked out--literally), I think in his mind he is putting us in Plan A. He even gave me a phone number to call him...but I will say after nearly 3 months of crying and darn near dying in my heart, I will call him on my terms, not when HE thinks I should.

I have a friend who's H walked out on her for 18 months. She said it was pure H-LL. He not only left her, but left her with their 5 year old son. Then had the nerve to move in with a female neighbor (didn't have the decency to find a woman in another town...had to find one in the next building). After 8 months she filed for divorce. One week before the final D-day, he came home and asked for forgiveness. My friend told me from that point forward she laid down ground rules:

a. Don't ever leave
b. Talk out what is bothering you
c. If unhappy, say something right away

11 years later, my friend and her H are still together. And they are the happiest pair I have ever seen. I had no idea her H ever did such a thing. I mean they are really joined at the hip. So much so, they partner a home renovation company. They are so cute together...

Every now and then I call her, not just to say hi, but to feel her strength (if that makes sense). I mean she was a strong woman to take a man back after he left her for 18 months, moved in with another woman practically next door, and humiliated her in front of friends and family. The other night I called her, and she said something I never expected: "Hold on my H wants to talk to you." When he picked up the phone, he didn't really say much, but just that he did a bonehead thing and that my H is doing a bonehead thing, now. Til this day, he never discusses why he did what he did and my friend says she doesn't pressure him to explain either.

Starman, maybe when we marry emotionally retarded people, you have to allow them to do bonehead things to help them get it out of their system. Maybe your W needs to act out and get whatever her issues are over and done. If you notice, when a child acts up and has a really bad temper tantrum, when you ignore and walk away, they straighten up and act like they have some sense. So observe your W...but be firm with her. Like myself, you are the adult in the Marriage and right now she is the child. Sorry, but it seems you have 6 kids instead of 5.

I will pray for you...read Hebrew 11:1

Nomoregames

Thank you nomoregames.

That's an intriguing insight you have on the reason for her acting like a child. She did have a rough way to go growing up. I know a lot of her issues now (mainly the unhealthy need for attention from men) are directly related to what happened to her as a child.

I have compassion for that but she's an adult and knows what she's doing. I believe she knows she has a problem but has been unwilling to seek help with it. And now she's slowly destroying her life because of it.

As far as going forward with the D, I have been counseling with SH and this was a conclusion that we came to some time ago. For my childrens' sake I feel I need to get some closure on this. Separation is supposed to be a short term deal at best. If it goes on too long it will start looking like a "normal" alternative to the kids and that is something I don't want to teach them.

One thing I'm having a little trouble understanding is my STBXW reaction to my plan B. She has reacted in a very ANGRY way towards it. I'm trying to look at it from her perspective but I just don't quite get it. The reasons I gave for having to go into plan B don't seem to be anything to get angry over.

Thank you for the prayers. You are in mine also!

starman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what set her off. She told me that it was all about trying to control things for me and that she had a real problem with that. She also said that I was trying to get custody to punish her. She ended up telling me that she would go to court and if she didn't get the amount of time with the kids that she needed she wouldn't be able to stand it. She knew that she wouldn't be able to take the emptiness she has felt in her heart for the last two years and that would force her to have another child with someone else and start another family!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Starman - Don't let your emotions and the stress of all this get in the way of your primary role. You ARE the head of your household and your "job" is to "stand in" for Christ as He is the Head of the church and the "husband" of His "bride."

Getting custody is CONSEQUENCE of HER actions. Be sure that you have documentation because if it comes down to a court fight, it WILL NOT be decided according to your faith. But you must, as much as it might hurt you to do so, provide evidence that substantiates that the children are better off with you than in her clutches. In short, you have to FIGHT for your children "against all enemies" as your God-given role of Father. If IS extremely unfortunate when a spouse falls into the "all enemies" category, but you CAN'T control her, you can only defend and fight based upon God's commands.

God bless.

Starman,
I apologize for coming off so strong. I didn't realize how long you struggled. There is a time when enough is enough.

There is a scripture that says if you have a unbeliever as a wife, and she doesn't want to work in a marriage, then it is ok to leave her.

1 Corinthians 7:11 and 14-15
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

God Bless you and I will keep you in my prayers.
Nomoregames