Help,

Let me introduce myself as Rob. I’m in a real pickle right now. I’ve read the books and the articles that are concerned. The thing is I have a situation on my hands that does not follow the guidelines of any of my readings. It is however, close to what is in Plan B. I’m 34 years old and my wife Colleen is 32. We have been married for 12 years now.

I found out on the 14th of January that she had an affair with Tom. Colleen and Tom work together in the same office. They have been working together for about 4 years now. In 2 weeks my wife is being transferred to another department but in the same building. My wife came clean and told me about it. They had been intimate for a month and I suspect they started the emotional affair about 6 months prior. Colleen and I have a 6 year old son and Tom and his wife Jen have 3 children ages 1, 2, and 4. The problem is that the affair hasn’t stopped.

The reason I am posting is because I need comment from people who might be familiar with the subject matter. Colleen and I were best friends with another couple and they refuse to be a part of it. Other than that I have my own family. The problem is that they have a one sided opinion. My 3 brothers said just give them the go and they will duct tape him and throw him in the trunk and take care of it. This is my family’s way of showing love for each other. Now you see why I am posting. Haha.

When Colleen and I first met it was great. Just like when people first fall in love and they know they are going to be together forever. I was 23 and she was 21 when we married. A good note here is that we were both our first lovers. First and only until recently. I had 2 girlfriends before her but not seriously. I was her first boyfriend however. We talked for hours everyday and we could not be separated. To me things seemed to be fine.

At the beginning of the summer of 2004 I started to notice a little change in her. Nothing drastic but enough to notice. She starting doing things that she never considered before like sky diving. Her more adventurous side started to come out. I also noticed that we weren’t as close as we used to be. I take most of the blame for that. However, Colleen’s biggest problem is expressing herself when needed. She never sat me down and told me that our marriage was in jeopardy because of certain issues. I found out about these issues after the fact.

Now that I have read the book “Surviving an Affair” and read other articles I realize that this affair happened because I was not giving my wife what she needed at the time in the form of affection and recognition. However, Tom did. The interesting thing here is that Tom and Jen were going through the same thing. Very little affection and time together.

Now let me lay down the facts of what is currently happening. Colleen is moving into an apartment within 2 weeks. We are currently still living together. She is taking our son with her. I’m staying at the house. I’m not fighting this because if there is a chance for us to get back together in the long run I believe that this is the right choice. I’ll explain later.

Tom is no longer at his own house. He is staying at one of his friend’s house that is unoccupied. Up to now Colleen has been coming and going as she pleases. It’s like raising a teenager. I think that the current arrangement is not helping things move along. As long as Colleen can go over to see Tom when she wants and can come home when she wants she will not get to know Tom well enough to get past this stage that he is perfect. I also believe that Tom likes this arrangement as well. This is why I have agreed to let her get her own apartment and take our son with her.

I know it looks like my son is a pawn in this but I fully realize this it is going to have an effect on him one way or the other. I know my son and love him very much. I also believe that when they move out that reality for Colleen may finally work its way in.

You see, up to this point I feel she is incredibly blind to everything that is going on. She has no concept of reality and doesn’t realize the pain she has caused a lot of people. I ask her about certain things and she seems dumbfounded when I do. Tom and Colleen continue to avoid family members and continue to try and hide in the shadows. Right now Tom seems perfect to her and everything else is irrelevant.

What I want to do is for the two of them to see what is actually going on and they are not necessarily the perfect people they think they are. Both continue to blame myself and Jen for the situation. From what Jen has told me he isn’t that great of a guy. She has to mow the lawn because he is too lazy. She takes the 3 kids to baseball practice because he won’t. You get the picture.

I believe that when Colleen moves out with our son things will start to happen. Our son is going to start asking why dad isn’t living with us. He is going to want the three of us together. Hopefully, Colleen will notice all the things I did for her. I took care of all the outside work around the house and half of the chores inside the house. Obviously, I did the majority of the work. That doesn’t bother me at all. I did it so she wouldn’t have to.

The next stage is if Tom moves in. Tom doesn’t realize this but I know how much he gets paid. After taxes and what he will owe Jen in child support he will have about a $1000 a month take home. Not too much at all. He is also leaving a nice house and 3 children to live in a 2 bedroom with my wife and son. I know my son and him will not get along. There will be resentment if not hate. I have also learned a lot about Tom since Jen and I remain in constant contact now. He is short on patience and is a selfish individual. Colleen doesn’t see that yet but I think that it is coming. The romance stage has to wear off first.

This is what I feel to be the right move. Let this happen and don’t interfere. Colleen had to really get to know Tom to understand what she has done. If anyone has an opinion please let me know.

According to the book it could easily be a year or two before there can be reconciliation between us. But I am willing to weather the storm for my family. I just hope that there is a chance of this happening. I am also fully willing to commit myself to correcting any issues she has with me.

Thanks

Your son does not need to be put into the middle of two people who are really not in reality. Why do this to the poor boy, he should not be around the OM at anytime. Ever. Until things are settled. Keep your son where things are familiar and safe. He does not need anymore upsets in his life. Learn about the plan B letter here and go dark very dark. That is no contact at all with her unless it is about your son. Put a call out to Wat he can help he is expert about Plan B. Please you will get good advice here. Good luck.

First of all, there is NOTHING in your story that is unique. Text book.

Second, I couldn't disagree more with your plans - regarding your son.

Let's deal with him first, before we deal with your Plan B intentions.

Have you consulted a lawyer regarding your planned separation? What are the arrangements? Have you already agreed to custody arrangements?

Does Jen know what's going on? Does Tom and Colleen's employer?

Please describe what you accomplished in your Plan A. Describe whatever exposure you have accomplished in addition to the questions above.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Plan A is the starting point. Are you up for that?

Stay in your home and keep it organized and fixed up. Double up your efforts. If your wife is used to the man doing work, her new situation will be a real shocker.

She needs to realize on her own what she left behind.

Thanks for the input guys.

There are currently no concrete arrangements yet with our son.

As I read more I'm realizing other people's problems here are similar to mine.

I'll see if my son can stay with me for now. I did contact a lawyer. I'm in Washington state. I've been told under the circumstances I don't have a chance to get custodial parenthood right now. However, I will be able to visit when I want.

Jen is fully aware and we are in contact with each other. A real odd relationship. However, their employers do not know. I want to stay away from that one. That could make things really blow up.

I tried Plan A and she said she was not willing to try some psycho bable. At this point she is not willing to give the marriage a try right now. She puts a lot of the blame on me and seems to be nitpicking on things that happened years ago. Her memory is incredible. She is bringing things up on a list. However, I do see signs when she isn't pissed that lead me to believe that she still cares and maybe willing in the future.

I need some quick advice here too. Although she seems irrational and pissed most of the time should I still send her flowers for V-Day?

Bobby - other people's problems here ARE NOT similar to yours - they're EXACTLY the same (with just different details). Keep reading and stop planning until you soak up more information.

I'll try to point you in the right direction.

First - you don't understand Plan A if you make this statement: "I tried Plan A and she said she was not willing to try some psycho bable."

What exactly did you try? There is no "bable", psycho or otherwise in Plan A.

"Visit when you want"???? I'm not in Wash., but others here are. See a lawyer to find out your rights before you agree to ANYTHING with your wife! You may not be able to get full custody, but you likely can have more control than "visit when you want."

Also ask the lawyer to describe what's available for you to do regarding financial arrangements. Who's paying for what. Do not make it easier on your wife to live away from the family home. She wants to move out, she pays her way.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BobbyMilkShake:
<strong>However, their employers do not know. I want to stay away from that one. That could make things really blow up. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A blow up is exactly what you need. They work for the same employer, right? What kind of employer is this? One who condones breakup of families, or wasting company resources making lovy dovy, or situations that could be construed as sexual harassment? What is their working relationship? Pennies from heaven if one is the other's boss.

As you're reading and learning, pay very close attention to how vitally important exposure of the affair is. Beyond exposing to the employer, what do close family members know? Parents, siblings, etc.?

WAT

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>There is no "bable", psycho or otherwise in Plan A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I should have said, "There is no "bable" in Plan A other than the foglatin delivered by the WS or the Orchid-style reverse fog bable from the BS."

Yes, send her flowers for V day - if that's in line with your new and improved self from your Plan A.

WAT

Thanks for the advice WAT.

I'll take what you said and do a little more homework. I'll reread Plan A & B and make sure I understand.

You are in great hands with WAT. Listen to everything he says. Read it twice, go away, and come back and re-read it. Slowly and thoughtfully.

I'll see if my son can stay with me for now. I did contact a lawyer. I'm in Washington state. I've been told under the circumstances I don't have a chance to get custodial parenthood right now. However, I will be able to visit when I want.

Why can you not get custodial parenthood? Because you are not legally separated or some other reason?

If your W wants to move out, let her. But she gives up the "perks" of being in the family home, and that includes the family members. Your S stays with you.

Read Plan A again - it has nothing to do with whether or not your W is ready for anything. It is about meeting her ENs and avoiding LBs. It doesn't require her knowledge and little participation from her (except SF, of course).

Expose to the employers. Why in the world do you say you don't want a blow-up? That is exactly what you want - a little dent in fantasyland. Yes, she'll be angry at you and blame you for a while but down the road she'll be able to see that you were fighting for her.

Be careful of your mindset when you expose. It's NOT to punish her in any way. It's to enlist the help of others who care for you and/or her, in the hopes that they will support you in rebuilding your M and her in leaving OM.

For what it's worth - here's my canned description of Plan A - presented a little differently, and maybe more logically for some, than in SAA, but I believe it to be consistent: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The way I understand Plan A, it's based on two premises that must be accepted for "garden variety" affairs:

1. The BS cannot end the affair.

2. The affair developed, to some extent great or small, due to a poor marital environment which the BS, to some extent great or small, contributed to.

If a BS cannot accept these two statements as givens, they will not be able to implement Plan A.

With these facts established, there is only one constructive thing a BS can do to influence the course of an affair: change the affair-friendly marital environment by eliminating the BS contributions to it.

To this end, the BS must perform an introspective search for all the things they were doing or not doing that contributed to the WS's decision to have an affair - and then eliminate those negative contributions. These may include failure to meet emotional needs or disbursing too many love busters - but is usually some combination of both.

This DOES NOT mean that the BS "caused" the affair. This DOES NOT mean that the BS can or should try to change failings of the WS.

It simply means that the BS needs to change and improve the only thing they have control over - themselves - to eliminate love busters and begin meeting as many emotional needs of the WS as they can.

Central in this is stopping all disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, and selfish demands. This is agonizingly difficult in the face of an affair. A BS has to counter the common knee jerk reactions of demanding the WS "straighten up" and delivering ultimatums and threats. Acting in this fashion simply reinforces the WS's rationalizations to conduct the affair in the first place - because the marriage "is over" or expendable and the spouse is unreasonable, therefore the affair is justifiable.

Invariably, this course leads BSs to feel like doormats and [censored] kissers. It also conjures up thoughts of enabling the affair by not resisting it. But the better logic to apply is that the BS isn't a doormat or enabling because they're doing the only things in their power to stop the affair - it's just counterintuitive to the initial reactions. This doesn't mean that boundaries shouldn't be set and protective measures shouldn't be taken.

Let me add that Plan A is all about the BS. You do not "Plan A" your WS (other than meeting ENs that may not have been met previously). It is not intended to change ANYTHING but the BS.

I'll end this by offering that there is one additional thing a BS can do to alter the course of the affair - but I call it "destructive" rather than "constructive" (to separate it from the one and only constructive thing, discussed above). It's to expose the affair to the light of day. But this deserves it's own discussion.

OK, one more thing. The affair is very, very likely to end DESPITE what the BS does or does not do. Until it ends, there is NO chance for reconciliation. Ideally, Plan A improvements can encourage the WS to end the affair sooner because the spouse's "causes" of it are eliminated. But regardless, following Plan A prepares the BS for a successful reconciliation whenever and for whatever reason the affair ends by jump starting the process - their share of pre-existing marital problems are already confronted. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT

Bobby...here's a few more thoughts I posted for you in "Plan A/Plan B", then saw you moved over here. Some points may be "arguable" depending on semantics, but the general gist is in line with what others are posting.

Plan A is about taking actions to help end the affair. (Exposure)

Plan A is about self-improvement. Changing those things about YOU that were not condusive to a healthy marriage. LoveBuster's is the number one thing to eliminate COMPLETELY. No more Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, etc.

Plan A is about appearing (no matter how hard it is) to be strong, self confident and able to "deal" with the A in a pro-active manner.

Plan A is empowering yourself by taking actions in self-improvement.

Plan A is done without informing the WS that you are doing it. WS's have no plan. You are empowered because you do have a plan.

Plan A is about NOT constantly confronting and pressuring the WS into relationship talks.

Plan A is NOT about telling her "I Love You" all the time.

Plan A is NOT about appearing weepy and needy all the time.

Plan A is NOT about laying down and taking all her actions in stride and just "doing nothing".

Plan A is NOT about enabling her A by moving out, loaning money, giving her space, giving her privacy.

Play A is about reaching a point in personal PAIN where you can detach somewhat, emotionally, and think with your mind, rather than with your heart. Your heart will tell you to do things that are counterproductive. You mind, coupled with Surviving an Affair, and these boards, will keep you within the boundries of Plan A.

Plan B is designed only to follow a great Plan A.

Plan A has a timetable, set by you, and typically can run from 3 to 6 months.

Plan A is not for wimps. It takes strength and resolve. There is a horrible amount of pain involved, and you must bear the FULL load of the work that must be done to save your marriage.

Plan A is about "reverse babble". Search Orchid's threads. How to amaze and confuse a WS with reverse babble.

Plan A is about showing your WS that you are the better choice for them, because you LOVED them enough to apologize for your part in allowing the marriage to become vulnerable, and to be the ROCK, by keeping to your principles during these times.

Dust off the book and re-read about Exposure, Plan A and Withdrawal. Very important information.

Lastly, keep a positive mental attitude. This can be successful. It was for me.

Best wishes,
SD

Edited to add Orchid's Reverse Babble Link:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

Thanks,

I think I'm starting to understand. I've reread Plan A and B. I'm going to reread "Surviving an Affair" also. I'm a slow learner but I am catching on now. I think I took it the wrong way the first time around.

Bobby,

Plan A employed properly will make a difference. However, the biggest mistake a BS can make is thinking this will pass quickly.

Set your mental timetable for 3-6 months of an awe-inspiring Plan A. Add approximately the length of the A as a proper and reasonable time for Withdrawal, then add an additional 18 months to begin the full reconciling and healing process.

Two to three years is not out of the question, but the last year and a half are not as rocky and emotionally distressing as the first few months.

Lastly, remember the effects of Plan A are cumulative, and no ONE thing will make a dramatic impact on your WW. Measure your successes in MONTHS, not in days or weeks.

Best wishes,
SD

ACK! The dreaded double post! Deleted!!

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

Well, you are in good hands here. Read and re-read all of this. It is your guide from now on.

In His arms.