folks. I want ideas here

The issue: The BS is in extreme pain and lashes out at you only to tell you they were sorry about it later. You still both get hurt for the exchange.

The ideas I want: Anything really. More specifically I would like to know what you did for what examples. How did you console your BS if you are WS. If you are the BS, what worked for you and made you feel like the WS cared ..... what reached you.

I am looking to defuse destruction. It seems everyone here has been on one side or the other of this A thing... so help me out.

I want to be creative and true. Maybe you thought of something that I just don't see right now... dunno. Anyway, I realize time is a large factor in healing, but I want to make every effort to do the right thing in situations that arise until the X factor of time passes.

thanks

I am guilty of getting defensive a few times. Luckily H has been very thoughtful in not lashing out at me when he is in pain, but talking to me about his feelings.

It still hurts as I know these are things I did to hurt him, and they are hard to hear, but i don't feel he is attacking me.

A few times though it was ovewhleming and I got defensive.

To avoid getting defensive, I constantly reminded myself in my head, this is my fault, he has a right to be angry and prayed to God, give me strength give me strenth, give me strength.

Then I learned to be honest about the details. yes H wouldn't like to hear them, but I had already hurt him as much as I could and the details may hurt me to talk about, but he was already hurting and needed those things to heal. So I talked about them.

I was careful to never say things that blamed him when talking about the A, and if he was crying always took him in my arms and comforted him as I hated seeing him in so much pain - pain I caused, I just wanted to hold him. Sometimes his down days were hard, and I because distant, but for the most part, I tried to remember he may read it wrong, and he loves me...so give him love back, and so I would give him a cuddle, even if he didn't cuddle back, or a hug, or a back rub or bring him some tea. Even if I got no feedback, I knew he loved me and that this wouldn't last forever and I can't act like a baby and sulk cause I am not getting the attention or conversation i want. After all - the A was about me...the fixing of the marriage is about both of us - not about me.

These are things I would have normally done if he was down in the dumps, or in pain, so why should I treat him different just because it was me who caused the pain. I love him, and so I still wanted to take care of him as he was down in the dumps and in pain. Didn't matter if it was me or something else that caused it. Well it does - but you know what I am getting it - I am talking about my actions - and not the cause of the pain here.

In return H has been just as good to me.

I think that these things have made it very safe for us to both talk constantly about our fears, mistakes, remorse, details. It is hard and it hurts, but we deal with a different piece everyday and put it to rest.

The neat thing is - we aren't verbally hurting eachother or arguing - normally we would do that. We are discussing painful subjects that hurt, but not fighting about them.

No matter how much BS lashes out - (in my case he doesn't really lash out at all - I am very lucky) But when he is a little more blunt about some things I remember that he is not in this position because he chose to be - is is going through this because of me. And if someone else had caused this pain to him that wasn't his fault - how would I treat him? I would want to comfort him, be there for him, support him, wipe away his tears. I put aside my self pity and remorse for those minutes and remember this is about him now - he is not going through this on his own free will, but due to what I did to him.

God has truly blessed the two of us.

I rambled again as usual lol - I hope something in my rambles made sense?

-ds

edited due to lots of typos - probably still more but 3 year old climbing on me

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: deeplysorry ]</small>

I can't give you specific examples [and I don't even think that would helpful] but some attitudes that seem to be the most helpful are:

a) absolute openness and honesty

That means patiently and truthfully answering every question so that the BS gets the big picture. The worst thing you can do is act like a defense witness who only answers with yes or no. This behavior will go a LONG way in quickly rebuilding trust. Sparing the BS any "unpleasant details" is the kiss of death and MAJOR impediment to recovery.

b) Expressing a strong ATTRACTION for the BS

A recently wounded BS desperately needs to be reassured they are desirable and attractive. They are destroyed by the idea that the OP is more desirable than they are. Look for any and all opportunities to compliment, praise and show VERY MUCH affection.

c) show gratitude that the BS didn't vacate the marriage

Many BS's feel like a "chump" when their WS acts like they are entitled to a marriage after what they did. This can become a cause of huge resentment, so be sure and show GRATITUDE

I just made the connection that you are frozen's husband.

In her post you can actually read all her unanswered questions. You can see she does want to work this out - but feels she wont get over them, feels you may still be hiding things.

Buddy - I sugar coated the affair to my H not giving him full details, making it seem less than it was. And funny thing is, these BS's are smart - they can put two and two together and something in their gut doesn't add up.

Wanna know how to heal your BS, and deal with the lashouts?

BE HONEST - yeah it will hurt her - yeah she may leave you - but from what I read - she loves you, you may be surprised. You are lucky - you don't have to wonder what your BS is thinking or feeling as it is written right here. Now its up to you on what you are going to do with that information.

Swallow your pride, don't get aggrivated. Don't get defensive. Be calm, tell the whole truth (funny thing is we think the BS will still think you are lying when we tell the truth - but BS's guts say - hey that makes sense - they can tell when truth is spoken - it adds up to them - they can get over once they have the details that we have in our heads - they can't read our minds.)

It's not fair that we have the tools and info to heal and mend, when they can't get into our minds, and so the A is a big confused mess to them as they don't know the things about it we do.

Go read her post - her needs are right there. Reassure her, love her, be honest with her, be patient with her, do EXTRA things for her, give up playing games with your buddies for a bit - they will be there once things are mended - your wife deserves all your time, and when she is being stand offish - don't go and do your own thing.

Start picking up without her asking, maybe go make the bed, or make her some tea or draw a bath - she may not want to talk or be around you - but that doesn't mean you have to disappear or go do your own thing - this is just telling your W that you really don't care - I mean she is having a down time, she is still here in the marriage right? during your worst time, so why are you leaving and doing your own thing during her rought periods?

-ds

Yup, honesty. That's the big thing.

OAK used to get angry and lash out at me from time to time in the first couple of months, but he has moved past that and we can normally conduct a civil conversation nowadays... if he said something hurtful, I just reminded myself that I was the one at fault here and it was natural for him to react with anger (tried to put myself in his situation for a little while) and it would generally pass pretty quickly and we could get back to talking like adults. I did my fair share of lashing out, and still am guilty of it from time to time in the midst of a fight, and I know that it's hard to deal with from either direction.

Just be honest and supportive, and roll with the punches. They'll become fewer and lighter with time, if your situation is anything like ours is.

Best of luck!

FallingUp

Honesty and patience.

It seems like the more I am shown that FU's words and actions are both saying the same things, the less defensive I feel.

For me, the indifference and hopelessness were nothing more complicated than self defense. I mean, I found out that everything I had been living for since we met, all the tears and laughter and fun and sacrifice meant precisely [censored] to FU.

I realise now that this isn't true, btw....but it has taken close to a year for me to really start believing that there could be more to our relationship than just trying to be pleasant in our day to day lives. That there really is the potential for a true, deep, and fulfilling relationship.

The times that I still get down I can trace directly to the lies not only during the A's, but after I found out. I mean, I realise that she was trying to spare my feeling and minimise what had happened, but it really and truly just added insult to injury.

I made the decision to allow her to stay. I felt, and still feel, that my strength and ability to handle the truth has been WAY proven.

So, in a few words...

Be honest. Absolutely and painfully honest. Don't gloss over anything. And don't be afraid to say how the memories make you feel NOW. Happy, ashamed, whatever it may be, Frozen has a right to know.

You are gonna have to be the vulnerable one for a while, Patriot. And yeah, she will probably hurt you with her words sometimes. Just tell her when that happens as well.

And for Pete's sake, give her your time. Not only however long her healing takes, but figure you literally OWE her time spent in her company in return for the time that should have been hers that was stolen by the A. It goes without saying that there will sometimes be things you would rather do than see the pain that the A has caused your wife.

Too bad. Proving your duty to and love for her is what being a husband is about, A or no A. I have seen many times one partner putting hobbies above their M. Generally, that results in them having no choice about it, as the hobbies are the only consolation for D. Not worth it, if you ask me.

Her emotions will be all over the place for a good long time in all likelyhood. Read up on triggers and try to get to know what hers are.

When she lashes out, DO NOT DO THE SAME. Just tell her as calmly as you can that what she is saying is very hurtful. And keep in the forefront of your mind that she did not ask for this. She had no choice in what caused these feelings, nor does she have a choice in feeling them now.

Recovery isn't easy. It has been thus far the most difficult thing I have ever done. Risking my life in a fight is NOTHING compared to this. Those moments of terror are over quick, one way or the other. Intentionally opening yourself to someone who has betrayed you so intimately, and knowing you are gambling the next 50 years on what every fiber of your being is screaming at you is a REALLY BAD RISK...whole different kind of courage, man.

Be grateful that she has given any indications of being willing to do that. And don't be shy about expressing your gratitude in whatever way she can understand best.

Heck, just keep in the forefront of your mind at all times what a spectacular, unique, and COURAGEOUS woman has chosen to share her life with you. Even when she is so hurt and furious, she is staying with you. Every day, she is choosing to share all that she is with you. Just do what you can to be worthy of it every moment of every day for the rest of your life.

Wow, this has been all over the place. Guess it hits close to home. I wish I had been able to say these things to FU sooner than I was able to.

Hope some of this is useful to you, Patriot. You guys are in my prayers.

-OAK

Honesty, patience..and freedom.

It's that last one that makes your skin crawl..isn't it?

Noodle