Well...here I am with the rest of the world it seems. Help me out you guys! Married 14 years, 3 beautiful children and unhappy. I love him and I do not believe he loves me. He works (not in an office) and is a very hard working man and a good dad. I have always been the affectionate one. He was loving in the beginning of our marriage but with the kids and stress of finances and other family issues, things have changed a lot. He NEVER says I love you....EVER... I would say it to him and it really never was reciprocated, so I stopped (banging into the wall over and over does no good). After having sex I would tell him I love you and try to cuddle but he would never say it back (again getting nowhere). He has never been very expressive with emotions. Geez I feel like such a complainer here!! Truthfully, I just want to feel loved...never thought that was too much to ask for. I work p/t and have always worked through having the kids (which are all in elementary and high school now). I've always worked hard around the yard, house. Have always pitched in to help him...just can't figure out what I'm doing wrong??? I am not perfect..no one is. Holidays never seemed special for him. Not that I need it but would be a nice gesture....has never...well...ok...one time (first year we met) but never buys me anything for Xmas, birthdays, etc. ( I'm sure I am not alone on this one) A card would even make my day or a loving hug (then I wouldn't even NEED a present that would be IT!) Really I am not a gift seeker...never have been. OK...so is he cheating on me??? I don't think the man has one second to do it honestly.....He is in work clothes all day and comes home right after work. I have had slight suspicions here and there (maybe my own insecurities) and have checked through his car, etc. (felt TERRIBLE about even doing that) and nothing. Truthfully, he would be too smart to ever leave anything anywhere anyhow. He never goes away on business. Am I being unfair? I have asked him to go to counseling but he says it is "I" that need the help. So...off I am to the counselor. I will help myself then. I really want him to help US together and said to him that counseling is a "good thing" and it can only try to help things get better. He refuses, then says yes...then refuses again...Aaaaagh!!! I am rambling on....so much I need to vent...MUCH, MUCH more complex than what is written here. I feel alone, emotionally abandonned and unloved. I have no real family to turn to and no great job to survive on my own if need be. Feeling helpless and sad. Advice and friendship please! Thanks all.

Steady,

I think you need to help him abit. One of the most interesting thing about this site is Harley's contentions that we often meet needs for our spouse that are NOT their number one need and when we get that right we don't do it the right way.

So let me ask you some questions. If you were in trouble would your H come help you? If you have a problem with something around the house, does he come fix it? If you start to talk about a problem does he immediately offer a solution? Does he get impatient if you start talking to him like the girls with lots of details about things but not really getting to core of the matter?

You say he has always been reluctant to say I love you. And you crave that right? Is it possible he says it in other ways and you are not picking it up?

Do you feel secure with him? Does he provide well for you? Do you trust him? Is he known to be a trustworthy man? Does he do what he says he will do with respect to you?

I think once you answer all of these questions you might well get an idea of how to approach this. Communications is very important in a marriage, but it is true the often men and women communicate differently. So the idea here is to see if he is "talking" to you in HIS language. If that is the case, the issue is to get him used to your language.

If you want to have some fun and learn some interesting things, see if you can find the book "Men made Easy" by a lady whose last name is Oh.

I think I recall the title correctly. She has some good ideas about how to bring us guys out of our silence.

All is NOT lost. So hang in there do some posting and more reading and I think you will be able to come up with a plan that will change your interaction with him. You cannot change him, but if you change your actions abit, he will respond.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Well if there isn't an A, it sure is in the atmosphere for one.

Take a look at the concept section above. Take the EN questionnaire. If your H won't take it, take it once as yourself and once as him.

Get ahold of the books: His Needs/Her Needs and Giver/Taker. Both are by Dr W. Harley.

Read them and get back to us. Think you will find very helpful tools there.

You have the opportunity for you and your H to put the spark back in your M. Better than most of us who had to live through the horrors of an A first.

Welcome to MB.

L.

Thanks Just Learning. I really appreciate your input and I will do some further reading, posting etc. Thanks for the book recommendation as well.

"So let me ask you some questions. If you were in trouble would your H come help you?

Yes, physically has been there but not emotionally available. Was rather verbally abusive when I needed serious assistance.

If you have a problem with something around the house, does he come fix it?

Not necessarily. I wind up waiting for weeks or months perhaps or wind up doing it on my own.

If you start to talk about a problem does he immediately offer a solution? No, he usually shuts me down or offers a solution that he know won't work/talks down to me.

Does he get impatient if you start talking to him like the girls with lots of details about things but not really getting to core of the matter

Yes...definitely. Does NOT want to hear anything but the immediate outcome. Yet he will listen to his sister and speak with her sometimes but will usually roll his eyes or walk away saying he doesn't want to hear it. She just looks at me and laughs and tells him he's such a scutch..but she doesn't live with him day in and out...I do. Not funny being shut down all the time.

Does he say I love you in other ways? I guess you could say by going to work and providing for his family...then yes that is one way. He is a good dad and that is another. There are many silent ways to say it...but it is rather the silent treatment which is unhealthy. I feel like the just the maid most of the time. Like a piece of furniture in the house getting dusty. It's getting old ya know? I am a hang in there type but I'm tired of not being spoken to and shown at least a piece of affection. My children are afraid of us getting a divorce and cry sometimes thinking about it. I talk to them and try to soothe them yet are open to a point about Mom and Dad having some rough times.

Do I trust him?

Most of me says yes, but a part of me says no. I do have doubts about some things in the past and now also.

Well, thanks for hearing me and taking the time to respond. You sound very level-headed and well thought out in your responses. It is much appreciated. So far this site has been very helpful. If you have time, would like to hear your reply. Thanks again and have a wonderful day.

Steady123

Steady,

I have some thoughts but I don't have a lot of time. I think what may be required is that you change the way you communicate with him. This is important because if you cannot communicate with him in a way he understands, THEN you cannot get across what you need. Now you could reasonably argue, that he should be finding out what I need. And I would agree, but that is not the case.

Why do your children think you two might get divorced? This is a big red flag to me.

Next question. What sort of family did he grow up in? Were there any trauma's . Was there divorce? Things like that?

What I am seeking to see is if there is a soft spot in his armour. Is there a place you can approach him?

I am getting the impression his idea of a man is one that is independent, admits few if any weaknesses, and as you said is not long on words. Sort of like the old westerns. Then one way to approach this might be physical and direct.

Don't ask him to tell you he loves you. Tell him to put his arm around you. Tell him to hold you. Sit close to him and make physical contact with him by touching him when you talk to him. You are invading his space, but most men are very sensitive to physical contact of ANY SORT.

What I am thinking is you need to change the rules of engagement here and touch is one of most men's weaknesses. They will often just pull away because they know they are weak. Just continue to do it.

As for the gifts,let me guess. He is too busy. He doesn't know what to get you. He doesn't know your size. He forgot. Am I close? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If this is the case there is an approach that has worked around here in the past and we can talk about that later.

But, do some experimenting. Have some fun with him, sort of like when you took biology in high school. When he sits down, sit next to him so that you are touch hips or legs. When you talk to him about anything put your hand on his elbow, upper arm, or fore arm. Leave it there when you talk and watch how he reacts. Surprise him by touching him as you pass by him.

Don't say a thing, just smile and keep on going. Keep track of his reactions for about a week and see if they start to change. Girl, you are at war here, and it is time to bring out the guns. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am betting he has no idea what you want when you say "I want to hear him say I love you". He is thinking "what the heck, those are just words, don't I do enough to show you I love you?" That is why we need to discuss ways to communicate with him.

What you really want to feel even if you believe his actions show love, is appreciated, valued, needed in his life. So as we talk the idea is to quantify what YOU really want and need from him.

Does this make sense? I hope so. So now is the time to experiment and he is your biology frog for a week or so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Let the experiments begin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

I think JL gave you some great advice. I like the experiment idea!

Your husband sounds a lot like mine. These guys show their love in a different way than perhaps us women would like to see. Believe me though, in the long run these are the kind of guys you can count on, and rely upon in rough waters. The romantic, fluffy type have in my experience been all 'fluff', and no substance.

It's funny, but now I treat my husband much differently than I did before our marriage broke up (before my affair) and before our remarriage to each other. It has reaped wonderful results.

I often stop myself from being critical or negative, and remind myself that those ways don't bring out the best in anyone. Another book I would recommend is Dr. Laura's The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands.

Not to be corny, but just remember that your treasure is right there with you. Don't think it's somewhere else. Maybe you just need to prime the pump a bit?

Good luck,
HP

One other thing that might help -take care of yourself -fix yourself up -get your hair done, new clothes , make sure you look nice when he gets home, get the house in shape, think of you not him. Mine noticed I lost weight and deidn't care aobut him-boy did that scare him. But not enough and not soon enough. I found out mine was having an EA. Good luck take care of you and kids.

Steady, we have very similar sich. I have been married 14 1/2 years known him for 17. Two kids.
He has always been a very emotionally stoic man, never felt the need to express himself. His family believed you don't discuss private matters, and his parents rarely argued. So this is what has happened.

My WH (yes he had a brief EA) never does things I ask him to do, I have actually waited 12 years on some of those things. I have recently discovered that as my "honey dew" list got longer he started blocking it out. He didn't care that these things were important to me...they weren't important to him so he didn't care. And the more I asked/pushed I became the nagging beaach of a wife. He purposely dug his heels in deeper and refused to address any of my requests. Guess what? After asking nicely for help with the house, kids, more affection, more respect, etc...I finally got sick of it and became the raging, screaming beeaach. Well of course if asking nicely doesn't work do you think the screaming did? Nope... He turned off completely and checked out of the marriage. Is it all my fault? No, because he never told me how he felt to begin with and over 15 years he has probably said I love you 10 times. Yes he is a good Dad, good provider, hard worker (if it is important to him) but he is truely incapable of feeling compassion for others. Perhaps a protection mechanism. So my question is How have you handled the seemingly lack of love? Have you become resentful and embittered? HAve you lashed out at him to try to hurt him the way he hurts you? It doesn't work and it makes things a heck of a lot harder to turn around. Sometimes when we drop all expectations from someone like this, that is when they come around, but usually just long enough for them to get what they want. Have you lost your libido with him and withdrawn sexually? I learned that my WH needed more of that and I was rejecting him...yeah...duh, like who wants to have SF with someone they resent for not helping with the laundry, kids appts, ect.

My WH always said it was me who had a problem and that I needed to fix myself not him. He still says that and is refusing to come to the table on our "issues" to save or marriage. Go to IC yourself and learn what your issues are. I have learned a lot but unfortunately it takes two to make a marriage work. Get some good books, I have just been reading about passive aggressive men and it has my WH's name written all over it.

I could go on forever, but I will stop now. Let me know what you think about this stuff so far.

JL and HP have given you some good support. Please take a look at the books I recommened on my previous post.

My H was similar. His family background was highly dysfunctional. Still he but he now chooses NOT t/b of that caliber.

In addition to JL's suggestions, I also reduced the # of requests made to H. Initially. For some strange reason, some guys think if they DO an action, that should cover for a bunch of other stuff.

ex: I clean the yard so that means I can throw my clothes around the bedroom, leave beer cans all over the family room and leave the lid up all the time.

Does this mean that because you pick up after him you can poop in his clean yard? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Of course not. So it does go both ways.

Now how you choose to communicate with him is where those books will come in handy, esp. HN/HN.

Another thing I did was when H was standing at the kitchen sink, I told him I thought he looked sexy when he was there doing dishes. At the time, he was rinsing out a glass or washing a fruit, not really washing dishes but still I gave him the idea. It sort of boosted his ego and then he wanted to know what other stuff turned me on..... Oh boy, I was ready for that question. I told him seeing a man pick up his clothes while in his briefs and vaccuming was a real turn on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Anyway, it was a small thing but it opened up some doors through that hard exterior he had built. My H had a wall so high and thick that he thought it would protect him from hurt. It didn't. Instead it alienated him from the rest of us.

BTW, he picks up his clothes (most of the time), vaccums (when asked) and periodically does the dishes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told him seeing a man pick up his clothes while in his briefs and vaccuming was a real turn on. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid were you really turned on by it or a way to stroke the ego? hmmmm I'll have to try that, although I know seeing my hubby mowing the lawn is nice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />