Out of the blue trigger/ptsd moments?

Late this afternoon I was laying next to the baby..while he settled in for the lengthy afternoon nap.

The kids were busy in their room and I began to drift away..blissfull..relaxed..almost asleep..then


POW

I had a sudden full color stereo surround sound memory of Hs confession phone call and felt like I had stuck my fingers in every electric socket in the house.


Stomach twirling..heart pounding..nauseated.

I want my money back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Noodle

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Hiya Noodle,

I agree these totally suck. I'm not even in recovery in fact exactly the opposite. However on the freeway today BAM I was hit with the movie of when I caught STBXW and OM together.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Native

You caught them together?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I had no idea.

Noodle

That was Dday, actually if you remember it was at the nightclub. I saw them making out, grabing and groping. Not as bad as seen in the throws of sex.... well actually for me it was.

<shudders>

You know..I could understand it if ..say..you've been dwelling..or see something that reminds you...

but those vivid ones that just come out of the ether..just because you relaxed..and then you have this fight or flight thing going on..with no one to hit and nowhere to run..so I don't know about you but I just sort of..sat. Hands folded in my lap. Swallowing back the bile. Wondering how many more times this is going to happen. I have to relax eventually.

It's getting to be like one of those Nightmare on Elmstreet movies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Noodle

Noodle, any ideas on why these things can just pop into our minds? I can see the logic behind a trigger, for me I have many. I'm sure the same can be said for you.

However why when you were lying down with your baby, or when I was on the freeway did the thoughts just pop in without an active triggering?

I'm kind of curious.

Native

we must have posted at the same time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good timing....

Well Noodle I can kinda see why you might still have your, for a lack of better words, episode. You are in recovery, so you see your H, maybe you smelled him, or while lying with the baby felt the H and W connection. Which then triggered you. I'll admit though that's a stretch it seems pretty thin.

As for me I don't know why I had an episode in the absence of a trigger. Maybe you can call it withdrawls from my STBXW, but I highly doubt that, but hey I'm no expert. I almost lost my lunch on my steering wheel!

I agree with you... when will they stop!!!

Yeah,

It's weird, I wasn't thinking about anything .

You know..that drifty La La place you go to riiiight before you fall asleep.

It couldn't be more of a shock to have teleported to the middle of the ocean [is there such a place?] and woken with the first icy lungfull..so disorienting was it.

We aren't in recovery though. If you want a really great description of where abouts we are stalled out..read Bob Pures thread.

Day to day is great..but the recovery work has not happened.

Noodle

Well as we all know the human mind is too complex, and plays many many games with us. So unfortunately I don't think anyone can give us a real answer as to when our episodes will end. We're all different so when it ends for one can't be the same for the next.

I'm sorry I thought you were in a good recovery. So you are in recovery but stalled out? Whats going on?

Native

It almost seems as if our protective mechanisms do not want us to become relaxed or complacent, for as soon as we do there is danger! These people could fool you again if you do not Pay Attention every moment! Do not relax! Do not lose your vigilance! Wake up! Wake up! Danger, Will Robinson!

It happens to me, too.
Mulan

Noodle

You said Day to day is great..but the recovery work has not happened.


Now I am developing a unique view of recovery based on my own experiences and studies of folks on here.

I think recovery has at least THREE seperate threads.

PRACTICAL - Day-to-day relationship and life support
PERSONAL - Individual recovery from overdependence and behaviours that contributed to the poor M that allowed an affair
TRAUMATIC - the recovery from the hurt, guilt and pain that D-day and withdrawal caused. Also learning to protect each other from hurt by selfishness.

I see that at least some of these three are required even if a divorce is chosen, but all three are required if a recovered M is possible IMO.

I think the first one non-MB aware folks will go for is day-to-day. Its thee natural place to start as we all have the skills, however latent to make each others lives better, which also make our own life better.

Chicken soup , intimacy, SF, openness. Etc.

Squid has THROWN herself into these tasks. She is transformed as a wife and mother since MANY years these last three months.

My own personal recovery has progressed faster than Squids - but then again FWS and FBS timelines are different. Maybe I had to get strong first to help her now ? I dunno.
Traumatic recovery has not been so fast. Frustratingly so for me. I feel I DESERVE a bit of dedication to healing my heart after seven months of holding our whole lives together.

But, RIF and Orchid helped me realize that the PRACTICAL recovery can provide a platform that allows FWS to be confident enough to risk hurting FBS again in order to help us heal from the TRAUMA without fear of being kicked to the curb.

This seems to be a very real risk of many or all FWS in early recovery.

So noodle, while only YOU know the facts of your situation, if your FWH is contributing HARD to the PRACTICAL recovery then you ARE in recovery.
It is important - imagine having a healed heart but no effort to reintegrate your practical lives..No shows of affection..no active caring. No good 'spousely' behaviours.

I am not settling for a slow recovery, I have just learned from RIF, SKM, and others that as I ( and you) have gotten strong in our personal recovery, our FWS are just hitting a bad and shaky place where the A seems like it was a very stupid, dangerous and horrible thing to do indeed.

For ME, Squid has contributed so obviously and dedicatedly to the only part of recovery she is capable of right now( practical) that I love her for it and will help consolidate our lives on the pratcical level. This , like in RIFs case, may allow us to work on the traumatic recovery together more soon.Just my $0.02.

Re the trigger ? I expect to have them for as long as I live. I look up to the left and pray strength to forgive Squid for the cause of that trigger and it goes.

All blessings noodle.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>

Bob just a question - has squid told you why yet? Why she had the A ? My WH is being very loving and nice - tells me to yell at him if I need to ect. I have been very loving back -but feel nothing inside. Do you feel that deep feeling you get with SF ? I feel I am protecting my heart. My WH has not told me everything yet just bits and pieces but nothing I can put together. He seems afraid I may have an A. The answer to that is no - I would not. I feel that if my H can have an A after so many wonderful years together than anyone can. Does this numbness go away? I need to know this I feel like a corpse walking around. He took my jounal without telling me - I vent there and I think he is now afraid. So now I think he will not tell -confess anymore. I am the type of person who can not hurt another it is just not in me. I am a loving woman who has alot of love to give. YYet I can not turn to him and find that love right now or give it. Is this normal ?

Bob,

Funny you should bring this over to my thread..I had already copied it down onto paper from your other post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Yes, the practical recovery is going smashingly.

And..it isn't so very much that I am impatient for the rest to follow..it is that I want some reassurance from Mr Noodle that he is AWARE of the other aspects of recovery and that they are being taken seriously. That there will be a place for them, even if it isn't time yet.

I could wait twenty years and consider it worth the effort, but I need confirmation. I need him to become educated..because I don't want a child asking my permission..I want a man who draws his own boundaries and defends them. I don't want him to ask how much he needs to do for me..I need him to ask himself what is required.

I HATE having some part of MY ability to recover maritally rely on another person..but there are two people in a marriage. Both are required to play.

I really like the format you have layed out..I think perhaps this will sink in easier for H as he is a visual creature..

I wish he would come post here.

I've been thinking lately that maybe he wasn't happy..how do I know? With a conflict avoider..I only know what I have been told.

I wish I knew what part I played if any in his DESIRE to seek out that lifestyle.

I wish he were not so worried about hurting my feelings..they really are not so fragile..but it is training you know..FOO issues.

Sigh. Miles to go.

Noodle

Realtor, you asked

has squid told you why yet? Why she had the A ?

Yes Squid told me why she had an affair. She felt she had nothing at home to match the investment OM made in her. She said it was about companionship, not sex. The sex was just the next step after intimate companionship.

This hurt to hear.

I have no doubts it is true.

I could argue a lot that Squid made herself unavailable for me to love long before her A, but such is needless complication.

She turned forty and hated it, she needed to be reassured she was beautiful, vital, essential and OMs practiced flattery and lechery filled the gap better than my 'lets have MC' response.

OM complemented her on her 'grey gone' hair colour and I didn't. The EA/PA began that day.

Incidentally I asked her how she could profess to love me again now when she said so recently that she did not.

Squid told me " because you are the man I married once again". There is horrible truth in that.

Hope this helps.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>

Say Bob,

Have you got a plan for addressing this?

Noodle

[la la la typos]

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

Noodle yes I have but you must promise not to laugh or mock <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am a practical person - a project manager if you will.

I have discussed with Squid these three prongs of recovery and she has agreed with them.

The way I see if ( and RIF has been awesome with his example to me on and offline) the one of the the threads of recovery that is most easily addressed by the FWS should be ENCOURAGED.

RIF and his MC found that a 'platform' is required from which the less comfortably addressed requirements of recovery can be safely and confidently addressed. This worked in spades for him from a sitch so bad I can hardly imagine it.

And it makes sense to me.

So my plan is :

1. Recognise Squid is contributing hardest and most naturally to practical recovery
2. Explain the three threads of recovery required to Squid and discuss.
3. Explain that right now, we both need to build a life where we are comfortable with each other BUT KNOW THAT sometime when we are able to , we must address the Traumatic recovery challenge and our personal development.
4. Make sure Squid understands that I am not going to interrogate her every day regarding the A BUT SHE MUST continue recovery contribution where she is able.
5. Monitor and when Squid demonstrates a willingness or readiness to progress Traumattis recovery harder, lest do it.

In summary, Squids not off the hook, but she can breathe easy for a while as she works on our practical marriage that I won't pester her for A details.

When Squid demonstrates a confidence that she is ready to progress Traumatic and personal recovery, I will raise the topic.

Thats my plan.

Allow consolidation of the practical recovery to make Squid feel safe nough to work on the other stuff.

It worked for RIF and I think it will work for me.

That make any sense noodle ?


* edited to say the big difference is Squid knows her current contribution to our recovery is part of what we need to do. She expects to have to help me get through the Trauma more diligently and to examine herself through recovery at som etime when we are comfortable with it.

She knows I won't forget. So that means Squid knows and agrees theres much more to do.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>

Yes..

So, I'm a little behind you right now..H and I have not discussed the 3 areas of recovery. I had not previously thought to split them so..and had trouble conveying that we could be doing well in one area..but not all better in general.

Very usefull I think.

The difficulty will be in ..well..requiring that H do the work of confronting his demons as I am confronting mine. He is HAPPY and CONTENT to leave it as it is..but that isn't good enough for me. I feel we are one fog away from next time.

More than that though..I want to be married to my equal. I want him to understand the concepts and principles that build a marriage and those that tear one apart.


Also..yes [damn it!] there IS a need for traumatic recovery..I need to be allowed to go through some things safely as well, lest bitterness take hold. traumatic recovery will feel a lot like punishment if he does not familiarize himself with the principles of recovery.

So, how are you working around the "this is great, let's stay hereness "?

Noodle

So, how are you working around the "this is great, let's stay hereness "?


Noodle, I simply told Squid my views on recovery :

* I know you never want to mention your affair again because it hurts and makes you feel guilty.
* I know you have a steely resolve for it never to happen again right now
* I know you think your affair was something special - sort of a love story

These are all true in your mind, but not useful for our recovery.

Your story wasn't special in any way, other than it was my special heart you broke.

It was just a class 2 'entangled' affair. Your words since d-day have shows you are coming to realise it was not your "soul mate love" etc etc

You hate my books and studies into infidelity, but I can tell you that most affairs happen the same, hurt the same, and can be recovered from the same.

We need to deliberately recover from the affair AND build our marriage into a more satisfying place to be.

* enter my gyp about the three threads of recovery *

You and I have worked hard on the practical recovery and thats great ! I am really appreciative but we need to work concurrently on the other two threads.

I wont force you - we are soon into recovery - but at some point baby you will need to take a deep breath and help me recover from this trauma and also face your own demons.

Lets build a safe place for us to be, enjoy each other and our life now - there is no panic - but know we have work to do even when our practical life is good.

Blah Blah

In summary I made Squid see that we are progresing well in one part of the work we have to do. When she gets angry and says " you pulled this out your @ss as a way to punish me by keep reminding me of the affair !" or similar rebellion, I point out that this view is not borne out by the facts of my behaviour since d-day.

Its a loving, patient consistency that has worked for us so far. I rarely push hard, but never completely back off.

Squids never under the gun, but never off the hook either.

It also is less emotionally draining for me as I can enjoy day-to-day success without feeling bad that I am not having down and dirty affair talk. We are always working on one thread at any time. Never stalled.

Recognising that its a triathlon not a sprint <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm not good at articulating this stuff Noodle, I hope it helps.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: b0b pure* ]</small>