I'm having kind of a bad night and thought I'd share.
Today is OW's birthday.
A few days ago, I had told my WH that I planned on spending every waking moment of today and Valentine's day with him so that he didn't have the tempation to call her. We sort of laughed about it at the time.
He always says that he doesn't think of her unless I bring it up. I'm sure that is not true, but who knows?
We had a good day - took the kids swimming until some little one threw up in the pool and we all had to leave so they could clean the pool.

After that we went for a drive and went out to eat. During our drive my WH called a good friend of his. The friend invited my WH over tonight to play cards. WH said I'll let you ask the wife and he handed me the phone. Well what could I say? It put me on the spot. So of course I said yes.
After that I was so upset. I don't think WH knew, as I kept my tears private, but how could he leave when he knew that I was afraid he'd call or text message her today??
He never said anything but kissed me and the kids goodbye.
He's been doing great with NC these past couple weeks but today is a difficult day for him, I'm sure.
V-day is too because for one she hopes to get engaged to her BF (she says) and also I'm sure my WS will be sad not to spend it with her instead of having to spend it with me.

I am so NOT looking forward to Valentines's day.

I am so sure that WH will either get me no card at all, or one of those sappy supposedly "funny" ones that I have got for the past 5 years. The kind they get when they are getting it because they 'should', not because they want to.
Actually last year there was no card if I remember right.
I just hope that I can be strong on V-day.
How are the rest of you handling it?

Suzy,

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Not to threadjack, but last year my WH sent $54.00 worth of flowers to OW, while we were struggling to keep from bouncing checks. (actually we bounced two that same day.)

I hope your H is doing what he says he is doing, although, given the date, he should have taken this opportunity to reassure you with his presence IMHO. V-Day is going to be tough for me too for sure.

((((Suzy))))

Suzanne

Hi, Suzy.

I want to offer a gentle example of a simple boundary that could have saved you some grief.

Quote:
---------------------
After that we went for a drive and went out to eat. During our drive my WH called a good friend of his. The friend invited my WH over tonight to play cards. WH said I'll let you ask the wife and he handed me the phone. Well what could I say? It put me on the spot. So of course I said yes.
After that I was so upset. I don't think WH knew, as I kept my
tears private, but how could he leave when he knew that I was afraid he'd call or text message her today??
---------------------

WH: "Hey, Pal. I don't know about the card game, I'll let you ask the wife"

Wife takes the phone and hangs it up, having said nothing to the party at the other end of the line. She then turns the phone off.

Wife: "Husband. Don't ever put me on the spot like that again. You are well aware of the difficulty we are working through. I am not your keeper. You know the right decision to make. You take care of your friend."

Wife then hands the phone back to husband.

You are not his mother. Your husband needs to be responsible for his own decisions. If you make him take responsibility for his decision to 'play cards' or potentially contact the other woman, then you can feel good about kicking him to the curb if the need arises. As is, if he does something stupid, he will be blaming it on you. "You said I could go, it is your fault."

I know you are trying to save your marriage, dear lady, but you have to put the conflict avoider away, and bring out the loving, but strong woman in your heart.

All the best,
Gimble

Suzy, I'm not looking forward to VD either (see my Dday!). For me, I will spend the day reminding myself that this had not been a special day for us for a long long time. WH thought it was a gimmick!! Such a romantic guy.

Perhaps you should have reminded him of your hopes to spend the time together. Is there any possibility that he was using the friend's card game as an excuse to get away? If it is possible, check his cell phone history when he gets home. Act cool and calm. It is possible you are worrying for nothing. If the history is deleted, chances are he is hiding something. Good luck. TT

You got it gimble...

where's your boundary suzi??

After that I was so upset. I don't think WH knew, as I kept my tears private

again...tell him that you were really looking forward to spending the night with HIM..

tell him
speak it
communicate it...

you can't hold it back...
concede to something you don't want to ..and expect any thing to change...

ARK

Suzy-

Are you in reconciliation?? It sounds like it to me, but I don't know the entire story. I hope that your H isn't contacting the OW either. Maybe going with his friends was a chance to get his mind off the whole thing. I dunno, I mean you voiced your request that you wanted to spend 'every minute with him through VD', he really should have honored that.

This all sucks, I know, and I'm flipping out already at 8am in the morning because today is Plan B delivery day.

It all makes me very angry, I'm angry that I've been put through this, I never asked for this, and I think that it's complete crap that any of us have to be put through this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I hope everything is okay Suzy, and wish me luck LOL

-Caren

It's the next day now and he did come home early.

Gimble and Ark---Stand up for myself, huh? So hard to do sometimes....
I liked the idea about hanging up the phone and honestly, it crossed my mind. My H hasn't really told his friends about his A and this guy was somone that he mentioned he might confide in and maybe ask for advice - he is a guy with a nice family and good head on his shoulders, has religion etc. I've never wanted to discourage this friendship so I guess that's why I didn't say anything.

Tummytuck--ah, the cell phone history. He learned a long time ago to delete his calls and text messages immediately when he hangs up. He is very sneaky that way. He also deletes emails and his browsing history on the internet everytime he goes online. I've always found that to be odd so I don't even check anymore because I know I won't find anything anway.

SuSu,
Thanks for your words of encouragement! I posted some thoughts on your honesty question thread.

Caren, Best of luck today with delivering the letter. I will keep watch here for an update!!
Stay strong--I know you will!!

SC,

The sneaky, secretive, second life died the day you agreed to reconcile. His histories should be blatant and available..you shouldn't even NEED to dig..it ought to be sitting right there.

This will need to be addressed..even if he IS being honest about his whereabouts and goings on..this will keep you in hyper-alert mode.

No fun for anyone..and entirely inappropriate.

Have the two of you discussed this?

Just what WERE your terms of reconcile?

Noodle

Noodle,

We both went to see his IC last week together.
Prior to that I had my mind made up that I had a time frame in my mind that if he did not DO SOMETHING, as in decide if he wanted to stay and try to work it our or decide to move out, then I would make that decision for him and he would move out. He just wanted time to decide. Let it drag on, you know?

All I wanted was for him to commit to try and work things out with our marriage, not to promise me forever. Hell, I can't promise him forever either, that's for sure.
He said he will commit to try to work things out.
Also he hasn't contacted OW for awhile either that I know of. Although yesterday was her birthday and V-day is coming up. I hope he can be strong and get through both of those days.

Would this be truly called reconciliation or recovery then?
I want that so much but I don't feel we are quite to that point yet. The words sound so great though!!

I agree. That history should not be erased, his cell phone #s either. That was a major one for me. Yes, you CAN still get around it, BUT.....
Also, install some spying software. You deserve piece of mind. I told my H, I don't worry about it anymore( I check, but don't worry), b/c if I find ANYTHING, my decision to leave will have been made for me!
Also, if you look in the temporary internet files, you can sometimes find things, even if they have been deleted in the history. That is how I confirmed my H's timeline of the A. I saw the first time he contacted her on the secret email, and the last. You can't see the stuff they talk about, but you can see if he has checked it, or to what other sites he may have been!
I sure hope that he kept his promise and did not contact her. Does she really want to get married to her BF after she had an affair? What is it with these people? Did you tell the BF? If not, that should also be a priority. He should know that she did not hold his love for her in high regard!
I hope V-Day goes better for you!

So...Plan A then?

If the A is ongoing you are either plan A or B or plan chaos and that doesn't help anyone.

This seems like an endless and pointless game of tug of war..back and forth.

Either the A is over or it is not.

Either he is willing to commit to TRY and recover the marriage or he is not.

Seems like not enough is being required of him.

Do you have conflict avoidance issues?

Noodle

True,
We are talking about switching to a family plan as far as the cell phone goes. He still has his work cell and his office phone though. So it doesn't pay for me to even check because I won't find anything anyway.
Once this withdrawal is over, I think my anxieties will tame down a bit too. Gosh I can only hope!!!

He deletes the history and the temporary internet files on the computer and he always has. Even before the A. We've had a computer for about 8 years now and he went from secretly watching porn videos on TV to viewing it on the computer (when he thought I was asleep). So, it has become as much a habit to delete stuff as it is to just log on I guess.
When I found out about the porn is when I started to withdraw from him very early in our marriage. He had a perfectly good wife waiting for him in bed but chose porn instead of me. That really hurt. I could never measure up to those women I guess.

Yes, OW really wants to marry BF. She said she told him about the A. I've talked with her several times. At this point I am going to believe her. However, if I have any reason to beleive that that A is starting back up, you bet I am going to let him know.

From the perspective of a once WS (what an IDIOT I was !!), I WANT my husband to check my messages. I don't delete anything!! I want to develop a GOOD track record. Aferall, I have nothing to hide anymore....and I figure each time he worries but finds nothing I am building back his trust.

Deleting IS hiding. He should be making an effort to make his every move transparent to you.

MY advice: Ask him to break the deleting habbit and to show you all of his cell phone history. (For all of his phones). If he resists or assuses you of being his keeper...RED FLAG!

BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with being his keeper at this stage. Afterall, he has shown you he CANT be trusted. The burden is now on him to show you he CAN. Insist he prove it to you! (If he has nothing to hide and wants to build back your trust...there should be no problem).

Good luck. My sincere regrets this whole painful ordeal has happened to you! Hang in there . . . I can only hope we all grow to be stronger and better people in the end!!

Stand up for myself, huh? So hard to do sometimes....

people here get that it's hard...but you YOU have to start somewhere...

you've set the precident....that your husband can hand you the phone and make you be the bad guy in stating whether husband is allowed to go out and play...

and it's all because you accepted that role...

he is a guy with a nice family and good head on his shoulders, has religion etc. I've never wanted to discourage this friendship so I guess that's why I didn't say anything.

this has nothing to do with your husbands friend...whether he is the nicest guy to walk the planet...OR the biggest scum...this has nothing to do with him...and it is not your responsibility to establish a relationship between him and your husband...

if you are unhappy that he chose to go to that friends house tell him....
but first you have to take ownership of giving permission... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> when it is the last thing you wanted to do....
that's all you...

and the whole valentines day thing...

speak up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

speak your fear...
speak how you think you and him should skip the cards and gifts this year...and just do something to together...

why not say..
dear on monday instead of any stuffor presents.......i'm gonna pick a song that I want to dance with you ... after the kids are in bed...and you pick one as well....and lets just slow dance...for a bit...on a monday night...

why all this fretting of what he might or might not do..speak up about what you want....

what would make you happy......

tell him...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Freefromlies:
<strong> From the perspective of a once WS (what an IDIOT I was !!), I WANT my husband to check my messages. I don't delete anything!! I want to develop a GOOD track record. Aferall, I have nothing to hide anymore....and I figure each time he worries but finds nothing I am building back his trust.

Deleting IS hiding. He should be making an effort to make his every move transparent to you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a FWS, I feel the same way - I WANT my to check every move I make - until she feels comfortable enough to not check. Her decision.\, not mine.

Of course, she has the cell phone bill in her name, and changed the PW on the website, so I have no way of 'invading her privacy' as she calls it....oh well *sigh*

David

Deleting IS hiding. He should be making an effort to make his every move transparent to you. MY advice: Ask him to break the deleting habbit and to show you all of his cell phone history. (For all of his phones). If he resists or assuses you of being his keeper...RED FLAG!
This is a good point freefromlies. I agree.

My H will be so good for a few days, keeping me informed of his whereabouts and then he goes back to the same old thing, like it won't bother me or something.
He isn't making every effort to prove anything to me I don't think. See, he isn't even sure how he feels about me anymore. He hopes the love will come back and he said the love for OW is dying but the love for me is not coming back as fast as it is dying for her. ***sigh*
He said he does love me but ....and then nothing, no more words.
Once he did say he loves me as the mother of his children, but I'm really starting to think there is nothing more than than, honestly.
My biggest emotional need is to hear I love you and he just can't say it. It tears me apart sometimes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This seems like an endless and pointless game of tug of war..back and forth.

Either the A is over or it is not.

Either he is willing to commit to TRY and recover the marriage or he is not.

Seems like not enough is being required of him.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Noodle, you seem like one tough cookie. I like that style. I hope I will get tough soon because this is getting real old real fast!!!

SC,

You know what? Tough has nothing to do with it. It's kind even to shove people off the fence.

If you want to know in a hurry whether something is important to you or if it isn't..take it away.

If he wants the marriage..more is required. If he doesn't..just how much more of your life is he going to suck up in the process of hemming and hawing?

I'd say..ok..I understand that have been confused..but my patience is not eternal..either we WORK to fix the marriage or we end it..and if you can't choose..then I will.

It's the stagnation that is so difficult..not the possible loss of the marriage..you have been processing that for some time now.

They begin to take you for granted you know..they ASSUME that you will be available as a default answer..so they don't really have to face the loss of you and give you much consideration.

If he loses you and is indifferent..wouldn't you rather know now rather than 5 years from now?

Noodle

Noodle,

Do you follow the MB concepts? I am only wondering because so much of what you say to me is different from what others say.
Everyone else tells me to "PLAN A, PLAN A".

I am getting so SICK of plan A. I think if I'd have never discovered this site, I would have kicked him out two months ago when I found out about the A.
I discovered the site right away though and loved the concept. At the time it was anything to hang onto a thread of hope. Now though. Most of the time I feel there is no hope.
I do plan A quite well I think, however, inside I feel empty, lonely and like I don't want to do this anymore. Thanks for kicking me in the butt. I mean that in a good way... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SC,

Yes I both follow and strongly support MB concepts..where I would differ from the majority vote perhaps is that I advocate plan B sooner rather than later.

Now..just looking at the profile near the bottom of your post..I can see that you have had a good three months and change to plan A..if you are satisfied with your efforts..then I'd plan B.

You sound ripe..he sounds disinterested and waffle like..still pining for OW and assuming that you will REMAIN in his back pocket if things don't work out for them.

So, if you've planted your seeds..and washed your hands so to speak of anything that will haunt you should your marriage NOT recover..then I'd plan B him asap and turn his world upsidedown while you recover yours.

Then he is either in or he misses the boat..but the work of recovery needs to be largely carried by him..it betters the odds..no more of this just sit tight while I think about whether YOU [the betrayed] are good enough for me [the betrayer]..that's just bassackwards and wrong..reconciliation is a GIFT of mercy..not a right..and until it is seen as such..well, his OW can pamper Captain Entitlement until she wearies of it.

Noodle