double post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: KMEJ ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I can not write anything here that will not get me hit with a huge 2x4 because I see my own stupidity after writeing it that I delete it.

I guess I always viewed rape as a violent act forced upon someone that they did not know.

Usually it is a violent act forced upon someone that they DO know.

I viewd it as the woman fighting back. I stopped fighting back.

Kmej, you said NO..said it more than once..gave up because it wasn't working and the next level WAS to fight back..but you are afraid of escalation. I would be too..I admit..I may very well lay there and take it rather than be strangled or have my hands held down or be hit..but failing to scream and flail does not make it any less of a rape.

I feel no physical pain.

Just the emotional/pyschological trauma of not being able to tell a man that he does not have your permission to place his penis inside of you without your permission.

I do not like it- I guess I accepted it as part of being his wife. I do not like it, but feel I have no real choice.

You need to leave.

The thing that gets me the most is that he appears to enjoy it MORE when I tell him no, he is not silent like he is when I participate.... It is weird. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kmej, your H is a SICK and ABUSIVE man. Sure he likes it better. I wouldn't doubt it for a second..this is just the sort of dominance game he thrills at..if you want it..where's the fun in that?

You need to leave for your own safety..the safety of your children, and your responsibility to your childrens future..anything less at this point is irresponsible, fantasy driven denial.

Sorry for the bad news..but your sitch is beyond what MB can offer. Get real help and get out until the problems are solved.

Noodle

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: noodle ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong> I can not write anything here that will not get me hit with a huge 2x4 because I see my own stupidity after writeing it that I delete it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They aren't 2x4s anymore than someone yelling "Your car is on fire" when flames are erupting from the car engine constitutes a 2x4.

Part of the problem is that you have learned to live with and accept as "normal" some very abnormal behaviors. Or perhaps you never knew that they were abnormal, abusive.

So, you post things on here that send *most* people's alarm systems into hyperdrive. I also have concerns on how you respond to people when they tell you that their alarm is going off AND yours should be too. You become apologetic, want to delete it, or run away from it.

You have developed (or perhaps always had) abnormal responses to your husband's abnormal behaviors. That's not surprising. But you have got to stop flying by the seat of your pants and leading with your heart.

Pointing those poor responses out to you is not meant to be a 2x4. It is merely meant to let you know that what you are dealing with is over the top. It is abusive. It is abnormal. You cannot talk your way through it or out of it.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I guess I always viewed rape as a violent act forced upon someone that they did not know. I viewd it as the woman fighting back. I stopped fighting back. I feel no physical pain. I do not like it- I guess I accepted it as part of being his wife. I do not like it, but feel I have no real choice. The thing that gets me the most is that he appears to enjoy it MORE when I tell him no, he is not silent like he is when I participate.... It is weird. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you feel like you have no choice? Why do you have no voice?

Do you fear for your physical safety?

Even if you fear for your safety, you still have choices. They're just different choices.

And if you only fear another angry, abusive outburst from your husband, then there's really nothing to fear from that. That's only the pathetic roaring of a paper tiger.

You know, I think you should list out the worst possible things that can happen if you file for divorce. Write out the scary things and look them right in the eye.

That he enjoys sex with you MORE, when he is using you as nothing more than a receptical should prove to you that he is damaged. That you MUST remove yourself from this situation.

Regards,
Garmus

Hi, KMEJ.

Let me give you a male perspective on your situation.

DO NOT GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS.

My desire to go and abuse your husband by pummeling his face into pulp is almost more than I can handle. If I knew where he was, well....

It isn't just the ladies that are offended by your husband's actions.

Get your children and get away from this man. There are shelters in your area.

Gimble.

KMEJ,

You know that I have lived in an abusive relationship, and things really aren't so clear cut that he is evil and you are a victim.

"You keep thinking that the problem is that you haven't expressed your needs clearly enough.

That ain't the problem."

That quote above came from Garmus. I think that post was excellent. Your H, for whatever reason, doesn't care.

The way to test that theory is to simply tell him that you are unhappy and see what he does and also not do anything that he doesn't like. Test it for a month.

When you tell him it is negative for him to go bowling, does he still go?

You'll learn a lot by dropping the rope.

It took pushing our 10 year old for my H to decide to go to counseling, but now he has. A friend once told me, "Stop running interference for his conscience." The fact is that you are in a tug of war. If you drop your end of the rope, you may be surprised by his response.

Cherished

H and I have a date for tonight. I am not sure what the plans are as of yet- but I plan on having a conversation with him him. I asked him this morning- well tried to ask him but he could not wake up- if he was pulling away again. His moods fluctuate so much it is hard to judge what I am walking in to. Yesterday was Valentines day (duh) and he gave me a sweeper thing he thought I would really like- I had no idea what it was- and was taken back that he signed the card:

To:Katie
From: H
No love- no your husband- no heart- just From. Not like him. He also did not give it to me, he left it on the TV.... Then I got up this morning to find that he had left each of the boys a box of Chocolate candy hearts and wrote each boys name on them and signed them "Love Dad". It was like a slap in the face.

I guess that really does not bother me except the fact that he never acknowledged what I had given him- or the card I left him on his bedside table to find upon awakening. Nor did he wish me a Happy Valentines day- or anything.

Yes I realize I have bigger fish to fry- however the little things still hurt a lot. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Post deleted by KMEJ

KMEJ,

Do you realize that in that last post, you referred to your H ("he" or "him") 10 times?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I left him a message this morning around 9 to call me to discuss what time he needed me home today (I went in to work early because he needs me home early) and to tell him DS8 was not feeling great and to please take his tempature before school- as well as to ask what he wanted to do tonight, It is now 10:45 and he has not gotten back to me- I sure hope he is not still sleeping- leaving a 4 and 2 year old that long is not a grand idea. Granted they are probably snuggled in bed with him either watching TV or sleeping- but still.
I am probably over reacting- he is probably up with the boys and has either not noticed he has a voice mail- or got it and is ignoreing me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are you so concerned about what HE is doing or what HE needs. You need to be concerned about what YOU are doing and what YOU need.

I am really having a tough time understanding what about this whole situation you see as OK or acceptable. None of it is. I understand it is incredibly hard to leave. When I knew that I had to separate from my H, I went through about 2 months of vomitting and anxiety. But I knew it was something I had to do for my own self preservation. YOU have children to worry about (in addition to yourself) in your case. Your H is dangerous. The way you are living is DANGEROUS- for both you and your kids.

Sorry, but it's how I feel.

<small>[ February 15, 2005, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

Post deleted by KMEJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KMEJ:
<strong>
How does one seperate ones fear what could happen from the fear of what is happening? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KMEJ, you do that by facing the truth of what is actually, directly, in front of you.

That is what everyone is trying to get you to do.

Once you face the truth, the fear will mostly fall away.

All the best,
Gimble

You don't separate your fears.....you face them.

You think up the worst possible scenarios, and you plan for how to address them.

For instance.....one of my fears was that I would be alone forever. So how do I face that? I realize that I may not ever get married again, but I can still have a good life with friends, getting involved in groups, and doing things that I love. Not preferred, but the outcome would still be that I was happy.

I feared I might not have children. How did I face that? I realized that I could get artificially inseminated or possibly adopt if I wanted to. Not the preferred method, but it could be done, and the outcome would be good.

In other words - you work through the fear.

Many people have offered to help you work through your fears....me being one of them. But you have never continued past saying what your fears are. You state them, and then when we try to help you face them, you back off, then post about how your H did something to you again.

Why are you so afraid to work through your fears?

Post deleted by KMEJ

LIT- great question- do not have an answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It helps when you actually FACE what IS happening in your home and marriage and life right now..rather than focus on your imagined hopefull future marriage.

Right now..you are being..

1 Routinely raped..RAPED Kmej <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

2 Humiliated

3 Rejected

4 Lied to

5 Cruelly abused [Remember those pics on Hs phone of other women he likes to show you so much? That is a power play..and not a subtle one]

6 Dismissed whenever he doesn't want some forced sex or OS.

7 Dismissed whenever there is something good on TV.

8 Isolated.

These are just a few off the top of my head..face that this IS your reality without running away or saying yeah but I GUESS I'm scared that blah blah blah ..what you SHOULD be scared of is what is happening in your home right now today.

The wolf isn't at the door Kmej..it's sitting on the sofa drinking a beer. You lost this battle..you LOST ...you were too weak to enforce the necessary changes that were promised to you.

And you know what? That isn't a suprise in the least..because your H is a predator..and he needed someone who would read their lines right to be his prey. That's you..you read your lines right..you have the martyr/victim role down pat.

Is that the role you WANT to play in your life? Is that what you want to teach your children?

Focussing all of your attention [and yes that comes through loud and clear in your posts] on your H and his needs and what is he doing and what does he think and what I can do to help him see yadda yadda yadda is just a diversion tactic..a way of not looking at YOU and the life you are living and the changes that YOU need to make to be a whole, healthy, loved woman.

This post is jam packed with DJs..and I will understand if you don't want to hear from me anymore..I'm actually all out of kind words for you Kmej..until you are willing to face what is your current reality..I feel that there is nothing TO say..I'll just hand your H a fork and some BBQ sauce because he is eating you alive and you are letting him.

Noodle

Post deleted by KMEJ

Hi, KMEJ.

Why do you spend your day contemplating how you can please your husband?

Why are you trying to appease his foul moods?

Why does your world revolve around how he feels - about everything?

Why does he matter to you so much?

Love is a choice, it is NOT ENSLAVEMENT.

Are you free to not make your husband 'happy'?

Do you live in fear of not making your husband happy?

Gimble

do you know the old saying
If mom aint happy aint nobody happy?

Flip that around. When H is not happy EVERY one walks on eggshells. It is not a good thing.

I try to please him because I want him to be happy- Is that not my job as his wife?

However you are correct- I do focus too much time and energy on him and his happiness when a tenth of that effort is not returned... More to think about.

I was thinking that the next time he says it is ME who is pulling away (probably tonight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) would it be reverse babble to say "your right I am, you've left me no choice" or would he not get it?

I know these are tough words to hear, but the situation in your M is about power, you are giving it, and H is taking it. You have allowed him power over your life. You have become so consumed with giving to him, but it has been very one-sided. Your Taker comes out and resents that you are not having your needs met.

Dr. Harley says giving is not a bad thing, but when it is not mutual, it becomes unbearable.

In our recovery I had to deal with myself being the abusive one, the one always nagging for what I wanted, but what I found is that my H truly held the power, by lying and getting what he wanted in an underhanded way. He and I have worked hard at our R, both of us changing, me, cooling hte LBs and him dealing with his passive-aggresive behavior. I found this website to be VERY beneficial. Read it and see if it matches what is going on with you...


A Website about the Passive-Aggresive Relationship


I also found a website that deals with different types of abuse, ones not so common, the ones that sneak up on you...see what you think...

Verbal Abuse Site

KMEJ,

I almost talked myself out of posting to you because.....well.....quite frankly.....I don't really think you are motivated enough to do anything about your current situation.

This is a situation that YOU keep yourself in. People treat you the way YOU allow them to.

I know first hand how it feels to be in your situation....except for the physical abuse.

I used to constantly focus on making my H happy. Used to constantly try to figure out what he was thinking....and why he was thinking it.

Frankly....I don't know why your wasting your time trying to figure all these things out. Your going to spend the rest of your life with this man, constantly analyzing everything that he does and says.

Your H is giving you all the answers you need. Your just not seeing it the way it needs to be seen.

I mean really.....you say that your deadline is almost up and he's supposedly been working on the marriage.....according to him. BUT....what happens when that deadline passes and you decide to stay because he's done enough to keep you there....and then he doesn't feel he has to work on the marriage anymore. Well....your back to square one.

He has you exactly where he wants you. You haven't shown him any proof of consequences for his behaviour or actions. Remember.....YOU decide how you will react to thim....not him.

On another note....you've stated that you've been talking to a male from here, trying to help him through this. Well....your H is upset about it. It's a 2 way street KMEJ....if it upsets your H then it's not something you should be doing. You would and do expect the same from him....even though he isn't willing to compromise. But....2 wrongs don't make a right.

You may post here with a different problem from time to time......but really....it's all the same.

He won't do or act the way you want him to.

You both want something.....and neither one of you are getting it.

Now that is a NO win situation....and BOTH of you are responsible for it.