Let me preface this topic with the fact that I have already made my decision. It was, however, a difficult one to make. Difficult because of the emotions involved and the serious, long-term ramifications of the choice.

Background: I am a male FS who has suffered multiple affairs and am initiating a divorce. I have been the breadwinner for the entire marriage. My wife, by mutual agreement, has been a SAHM in the best interests of the children, of which there are three. The youngest is 5, the oldest 13. The oldest would understand the concepts involved well – marriage, infidelity, divorce, etc. but may not fully appreciate them as he has yet to be in love.

So the question is (to which I have my own answer, but would really like to see the debate) do I tell the children? I mean, they know a divorce is coming, but do I explain why and tell them about the affairs?

Because I am the male breadwinner and the wife has been a SAHM, I fully expect to be paying alimony and child-support for as long as that entails. Divorces tend to favor the mother. I am all for child-support. Why should they suffer? Less in favor of alimony, as it was HER actions that ended the marriage. I tried to recover it after the FIRST affair, and was completely ready to work my tail off on the marriage and just move past it all. Actually, to move to something better.

But follow this – we all know that rulings such as these are difficult to enforce. If she gets custody, how will I KNOW that the child support money goes to support the kids? The oldest is cognizant enough to be aware of where it is going, but why would he tell? I mean if I just let this marriage end and say “mommy and daddy had their differences” what will he think? It will most definitely affect him. Start from the mortgages alone. Now, there will be two. One complete mortgage payment we are now going to have to make COULD have gone to: private school tuition, enrollment in sporting leagues or equipment, birthday presents, vacations, etc. Certain fulfillments in a child’s eyes will now go wanting. I would expect the children to notice. There will be some resentment fostering because mommy and daddy “just couldn’t get along.” They may not CARE what the mother does with the money. Or they may not suspect that mommy is diverting the child support money to the OM for weekend getaways, or paying for a sitter so she can go hook up. Why would he suspect? Under the “clean” explanation, mommy and daddy just didn’t get a long, mommy looks just peachy in his eyes. When she is not.

This day is also coming, or likely to. The day one of my sons gets told no because we can’t afford it and then looks at me and angrily shouts something along the lines of “If you had only been nicer to mommy, you to wouldn’t be divorced and we could do {fill in the blank}” What on that day? Am I to have my son’s opinion of me be that tarnished? That I didn’t care? That I didn’t struggle mightily to recover the marriage for the FAMILY’S sake after the first affair?

I chose the noble path and a narrow path it is. Why should I have anything less than the admiration of my boys for the effort? What a witness that would be to THEM on how to be a husband!

But on the other side of the coin, my wife was a good mother. She loves her sons. She would die for them. She clearly did not understand the ramifications of her actions, or possibly didn’t care. But should a child hate a parent for that kind of wrong? She did a selfish act, but the person most hurt by it was me. Yes, the children will be indirectly hurt because of the divorce, but I bear all the gaping wounds. And it was my choice to marry her, not the children’s. Should they hate their mother for that? That is a pretty strong thing for a child to feel towards their parent, who at the end of the day still loves them. That is what would happen, at least for a time, until they, too, forgave her if they were told of what she had done.

So that is the burning question – do you tell the kids about the affair?

If you do, at what age would you tell them – keeping in mind that if you tell the oldest, the younger ones will find out from them?

HOW do you tell them? Which is obvious to me. You would NOT say “mommy is a dirty, rotten ho.” But a simple statement of the facts, what is wrong with that? What do you say when they ASK why you divorced? Keep feeding them “mommy and daddy just didn’t get along?”

Why would the transgression that is the affair any different than any other transgression?

For example: If I were a child abuser, I would fully expect my wife to divorce me over that, if not jail me for it. I would also expect her to TELL the children that I was abusing them so they would know that that kind of treatment is NOT NATURAL. An abused kid doesn’t KNOW any better if abuse is all he knows.

If I were a chronic drunk and endangering the children with alcohol abuse, I would ALSO expect my wife to divorce me and tell the kids. That is a valid reason for a divorce. “Son, I had to divorce daddy, or you or one of you brothers would have wound up dead.” That is a reasonable thing to me.

If I were a murderer, drug-dealer, pedophile, … the list goes on. The kids should know the behavior was inappropriate. They should know that they are not misfits because of the dad they had. They should know so they don’t do it to their kids – as much of this behavior IS passed on as children learn it from their parents.

Why would an affair be different? It is wrong, destructive behavior that one would HOPE one’s children would NOT continue. It is highly likely that my wife’s first OM learned his behavior from his uncles, who raised him. Now my family suffers (indirectly). Why is the affair seemingly in a special class? Don’t tell the kids – they wouldn’t understand.

Or it would hurt them. Heck. It is GOING to hurt them. Do they not deserve to know WHY they are being hurt? Since when has the truth been something to be withheld? We certainly don’t teach THEM that. I tell my boys better to tell me the truth about a wrong they have done and face the punishment than for me to find out they lied to me about it.

During the FIRST affair, I kept it from my children. Know what my wife did? Got another cell phone behind my back so she could keep communicating with the OM. Used it IN FRONT OF the children (doubtful she talked to OM on it, but she used it). If the kids knew and knew what to look for, it is possible that lot’s of pain could have been prevented. What would be the problem with that? On the other hand, how awful is it to enlist your children to spy on your spouse?

Obviously, it would be wrong to brainwash them against their mother. It would be spiteful to tell them for the rest of their lives “No, you can’t join {fill in the blank} because we don’t have enough money because your mother cheated on me.” But what about just sitting them down once and telling the plain, simple truth? They can draw their own conclusions.

When I get angry it scares the children. I am a man with a booming voice and it is scary. I don’t have to be THAT angry to frighten a child. Just the loudness is enough. No one says to them “You shouldn’t be afraid of daddy, he loves you.” They see the facts (me being loud) and draw their own conclusions (I should be scared). Why not allow them to draw their own conclusions regarding an affair?

What if I was a heavy drinker? If my wife told my oldest to call her to come get them instead of get in a car with me if he thought I was intoxicated, that would be considered appropriate. And yes, their lives would be at stake, so it makes it different. But the point is it would be quite a burden on a child to be on the look out for a drunk dad. Knowing the truth about a cheating mom would be less of a burder, as it carries no responsibility for the child.

What if they caught her? And found out that way. I am sure that has happened to someone. Did it scar the kids or ruin them? I knew before what happened to me that I would not have an affair, after what I have gone through, my resolve is doubly strengthened. Good lesson for a kid in there as well. Keeping one’s word. Integrity. Honesty. All things we want for them. Nothing like a close call to instill a little virtuous fear.

A main tenet of MB is EXPOSE the affair. I shudder to think how quickly my wife would have stopped if she knew her kids knew. Would have resented the hell out of me for telling them and it would have ruined the marriage. Ruined any chance of recovery. But now, the marriage is in fact ruined. Why should I take any lumps at all for something she did in an effort to ensure the kids believe “mommy and daddy just didn’t get along?”

Is it the action that hurts or the knowledge of it? Is there truly a situation where we are better off NOT knowing?

Has anyone told their kids? How? What were the results? Did you regret it, or were you glad you did?

Just a little Sunday fare to make us all think. About where we stand and what we stand for.

Respectfully and curiously,

NCWalker

I'm on the tell them end. They don't need every graphic detail. What you should say should be age appropriate. You might do it as a family meeting. Chances are, they are talking with each other about it anyway. What you say to the older kids will be passed down.

My opinion is that kids know 'way more than you think. They know that something is wrong. They will have questions. What you say might be as simple as Mommy doesn't want to live with us right now. Reassure them that you live them and will be steady. Tell them Mommy loves them but may not be able to show it right now. If you are doing Plan A, then you can tell your kids you are trying to do things to make their mom come home. Stress that it was her decision to leave and it will be her decision to come home. At this point, I wouldn't mention OM. Although, your 13 year old probably has more clues than you think.

Good luck. Do you want custody of your kids? And about money, kids don't need everything. They can live without a lot of things. That is a life skill. If you were laid off or took a paycut, the same thing would happen.

NC -

What a tough question. As you know, I already told you that I believe you should tell your boys. That is when I thought RAP was out of your home.

I'm of two minds. When I was growing up, from about 9 to 13, my father was having an affair or something. I never found out, and still haven't to this day. But he would leave every night after my sis and I went to bed. Then he would come back around 11:00 or 12:00. In the meantime, I waited up, looking out my window, waiting for him to come home, crying every night. I knew that something was wrong, but didn't know what.

Moving on - my husband was an alcholic and dangerous to my sons. I went to court and fought him for custody and supervised visits, as he would pick up the boys (3 and 5) and drive around drunk with them.

I decided not to tell my boys, didn't want to denigrate their father in there eyes. I got sole custody, and over the years, their father would call them on the phone and tell them what a horrible mother I was. He told them that I broke up our happy family, blah, blah, blah.

To make a long story short, my boys are now 20 and 23. Now I have told them the truth. My oldest said that he knew the truth all along. He told me he remembered when he was 5 years old, and his dad was yelling at me. I told son to go outside and make clay animals. I was flabbergasted that he remembered.

So it is a very hard decision. You are the only one who can make it. But I will tell you that your boys know much more about what is going on than you would ever guess.

Blessings and prayers to you and RAP and your boys.

NC, Yes tell them. You are well spoken. I know you can be trusted.

My daughter knew even before I knew. She was just 13. Can you imagine ... poor girl.

It was the hardest thing I ever did when I filed. I felt like I was betraying my children. They knew I fought and fought for our family prior to me filing.

Here's a funny thing for you though. Well maybe funny. My wife went to file the same day I did. When I got home later in the day, she asked me in a condesending tone, "What would your mother think of you filing for divorce."

I didn't say anything, but I thought "what would my mother say about her Jerry Springer behavior."

The point I'm making. Your kids have to know that you were a champion for this family. And they also have to know that when they become men, they should not have to tolerate an untruthful, round heeled woman for a wife. Maybe not even for the kids.

Which was hard for me to admit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ncwalker:
<strong>

So the question is (to which I have my own answer, but would really like to see the debate) do I tell the children? I mean, they know a divorce is coming, but do I explain why and tell them about the affairs?

So that is the burning question – do you tell the kids about the affair?

Has anyone told their kids? How? What were the results? Did you regret it, or were you glad you did?

NCWalker </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a firm believer in the truth. Obviously, it must be the truth that your children can understand at whatever age they are. An I think that they often know more than you think they do.

When I was a child (13) my sister (14) was diagnoxed with leukemia. My parents did not tell us this, they didn't even tell her. She didn't know she was dying. We didn't either. We were told she was anemic. But as time went on, we KNEW there was something seriously wrong with her. And we couldn't talk to our parents about it. Because there was a conspiracy of secrecy around it. She died at the age of 15, without any of us being able to say goodbye to her (we were a family of 10).

To this day (with my parents long gone) I still resent that. I resent the fact that they couldn't somehow have told us that Claire was so seriously ill and that we needed to love her and understand that she wouldn't be with us much longer. And say goodbye to her.

And so the net result of that expernience is that as an adult (53 years old) I try to be as honest as I can with my children about what is going on in my life, and about what life is all about.

It isn't always easy. And it certainly isn't always pleasant. But I beleive it's always necessary NOT to hide the truth from the people you care about. Obviously, you tell your children what is going on with you and your wife in a caring way, appropriate to what they can understand at their age.

My best to you.

NCWalker,

Dude!! You asked so many questions I feel a little overwhelmed. However, I'm taking a stab at it. Here we go!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>So the question is (to which I have my own answer, but would really like to see the debate) do I tell the children? I mean, they know a divorce is coming, but do I explain why and tell them about the affairs?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, my personal theory is that children should be told about divorce and affairs in the same way that they are told about sex--in an age-appropriate manner. For example, your 5yo is going to understand it on an entirely different level than your 13yo. Your 5yo could be told "Mommy and Daddy are getting a divorce because Mommy has a boyfriend, and when mommy's and daddy's marry, they are not supposed to have boyfriends and girlfriends anymore. Getting married means that you are just with each other and no one else"; whereas your 12yo could be told "Your mother and I are divorcing because she had an affair. It hurt me very much and I worked hard to forgive her, but she did it again and that is not the way that I want to raise you boys. I want you to see that marriage means commitment for life to one person. I want you to see that marriage means honesty and openness. I asked her to stop and she chose not to stop, so after trying for a long time, I have no other choice."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Divorces tend to favor the mother. I am all for child-support. Why should they suffer? Less in favor of alimony, as it was HER actions that ended the marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NCWalker, why are you so ready to just accept the fact that she gets the kids? You provided for the kids; you have worked in their best interests; you have protected them and brought them up well--there's no reason I can see that you shouldn't get at least 50/50. Now, I realize that your WW was a SAHM and thus especially for the 5yo she is a primary parent, BUT it is reasonable and realistic for your WW to recognize that the price she must pay for her infidelity is that she loses her children at least HALF of the time, and that she now has to get a job and support herself AND her children! Does she have an education...a degree? Does she have skills that she chose to set aside to be a SAHM? Then, guess what? SHE HAS TO WORK! No more SAHM with exH footing the bill. Nope, her kids are going to SUFFER because of her choices, and she is going to HAVE to accept that! Don't just give up on them, NCWalker--go for at least 50/50 and even consider being the custodial parent and let HER get weekend visitation!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>But follow this – we all know that rulings such as these are difficult to enforce. If she gets custody, how will I KNOW that the child support money goes to support the kids? The oldest is cognizant enough to be aware of where it is going, but why would he tell? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Okay--note to self. There is NO WAY AT ALL that you can "force" your ex-spouse to spend child support "on the children." The idea of child support is that if YOU have the education and skills to earn $5,000/mo. and SHE has the education and skills to earn $2,000/mo--then you pay her $1500/mo so that both of your homes are approximately equal. Since you both have about the same amount of "money" in your home, you use your money in any manner that you see fit, and she uses her money in any manner that she sees fit. Thus CHILD SUPPORT does not mean that the money is spent on the kids' shoes and coats and lunches...it means that the child support is spent to maintain a home.

In my home, I spend the child support EVERY MONTH to pay the rent.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>This day is also coming, or likely to. The day one of my sons gets told no because we can’t afford it and then looks at me and angrily shouts something along the lines of “If you had only been nicer to mommy, you to wouldn’t be divorced and we could do {fill in the blank}” What on that day? Am I to have my son’s opinion of me be that tarnished? That I didn’t care? That I didn’t struggle mightily to recover the marriage for the FAMILY’S sake after the first affair?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, NCWalker, this is why I suggest that you DO tell the children. Not so that you can avoid this day (because it will come no matter what you do or what she did) but rather because the kids will eventually see the light even if they do not see it right then...on that day when they are turned down. See, my kids were 9yo and 12yo when their dad left to move out-of-state with one of his OW, and they did not understand why he left them...just that he DID. When he did it again, they were older and they understood better--they were still his children and they still loved him, but they knew which one was the parent who tried to keep the family together and which one was the parent who kept leaving them.

IMHO, the kids are going to be hurt and are going to lose some of their lifestyle—that is just GOING to happen. Furthermore, since they are children (and hence childish) they are going to say something like “If you hadn’t divorced we’d be able to do this! All our friends are doing this! It’s no fair!” But NCWalker, you are the adult and hopefully mature—just recognize that their REAL hurt is that not the divorce (at that time), it’s that they didn’t get something they wanted. Don’t fall for it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Should they hate their mother for that? That is a pretty strong thing for a child to feel towards their parent, who at the end of the day still loves them. That is what would happen, at least for a time, until they, too, forgave her if they were told of what she had done.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I don’t know if you know my story, but here’s part of it. My exH is a serial cheater with some mental illnesses. He had one affair with two women at the same time…he had several emotional affairs…he had ONS’s and short A’s while he was out-of-town…he had one affair where he moved out-of-state for six months…he had another affair with another mentally ill lady in his support group…and he had innumerable internet and cybersex affairs. In short, it wasn’t a pretty picture.

As our marriage ended, I did not tell the kids EVERY detail, but I did tell them enough details for them to get the drift. I too was worried that they would hate their dad or be disgusted by him, but they weren’t. He is their FATHER; they just recognized that what he was doing was wrong. The day that we moved from our family home to our new townhouse, the kids found an adult video and a sex toy in our couch, and they knew right away whose it was and how it got there—and it kinda grossed them out, but they KNEW that I am not that kind of parent. And now when they see adult websites on their dad’s computer or come across some sex toy that he has left out, they tell him, “Dad, that’s gross! It’s not right to leave that stuff out! You’re our DAD! Don’t behave that way!”

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you do, at what age would you tell them – keeping in mind that if you tell the oldest, the younger ones will find out from them?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See my comments above. You tell them all, now, in a way that is appropriate to their age. They can be told more as they get older, and/or they will learn more as is appropriate. For example, the 5yo may only understand the mommy’s and daddy’s should not have boyfriends and girlfriends, but as he gets older (say 10yo) he may understand what sin is…and when he’s 15yo he may understand what a relationship is, for he will have had a girlfriend of his own and broken up once. See what I mean?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>HOW do you tell them? ...But a simple statement of the facts, what is wrong with that? What do you say when they ASK why you divorced? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told my kids by sitting down with each of them separately in their own special time, and saying, “I have something important that I need to talk to you about.” My OS’s special time is to watch wrestling with me, and my YD’s special time is to watch 7th Heaven with me—and before each special time at dinner, I talked to them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Do they not deserve to know WHY they are being hurt? Since when has the truth been something to be withheld? We certainly don’t teach THEM that. I tell my boys better to tell me the truth about a wrong they have done and face the punishment than for me to find out they lied to me about it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NCWalker, this is actually an excellent opportunity to SHOW them what you have been teaching them. The fact of the matter is that sometimes the real truth—honesty—does hurt. That is just FACT! But you have been teaching your boys that temporary pain TODAY (punishment) is better than the long-term pain of breaking trust and having to rebuild that (lying). Well, live that out! Yes, it is going to hurt them to hear this truth, just as it will hurt them to hear the truth when they can’t afford something they want to do…but your boys DESPERATELY need to know that one parent will never, ever, EVER lie to them even if it is unpleasant. If they feel like you left things out or covered things up—then in their eyes they can’t trust either parent. OTOH, if you consistently tell them the truth no matter what, then they will eventually KNOW that at least one parent will tell them the truth even when it sucks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If the kids knew and knew what to look for, it is possible that lot’s of pain could have been prevented. What would be the problem with that? On the other hand, how awful is it to enlist your children to spy on your spouse?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, dude, this is a big NO NO. You do not enlist your children to “spy” on their mother or try to control her behavior. What this teaches them is that if they sneak and tattle tale, that they can control another person’s choices, and as mature adults, you and I both know that is just not true! You can not control your wife or her choices—and that is not something you want to teach your kids. So, nope—a lot of pain could NOT have been prevented, because even if your kids HAD seen your wife speaking directly to the OM on the cell, they could not have stopped her and neither could you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Has anyone told their kids? How? What were the results? Did you regret it, or were you glad you did? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can see that I did tell my kids…and I believe I have fairly eloquently described to you HOW I did it. The results were not immediate, but let me just say that my exH’s “out-of-state” A was in 1999, our divorce was final May 2003, and by now, the kids get it. They do not hate their dad, but they are able to see through his shenanigans. They know which parent will ALWAYS tell them the truth. They know that being unfaithful is unbelievably damaging, and that fidelity is a virtue. They know how to tell the truth about painful things and that they are safe to do so. I think they look at their dad and love him, but feel a little sorry for him because of the choices he continues to make. At times, they are mad at him because his choices make work and OP a higher priority in his life than them. They SEE that.

Do I regret it? No, I sure do not. Am I glad? Well, I wish I did not have to tell my children this—but I did—so given those circumstances, I am content with the way that they were told and how it has turned out.


FNCJ

First of all NC, I’m so very sorry to hear of the most recent developments in your family. I could not imagine going through this again, though my WW has never looked back after leaving…or at least appears not to.

I’ve not told my children; 3 and 7 now….but I may address it. WW has exposed them to her “friend” without revealing the romantic nature of her relationship. Obviously my 3 yr. old would not grasp anything I tell her regarding the nature of marriage etc. and the involvement of a third party. I was considering telling my son with a view to establishing his morals via a bad example, but I decided to speak to our staff psychologist first.

Just to let you know, in WW’s eyes this is not an affair. Even…..even though WW was with OM in a cheap hotel 2 days after spending Christmas 2003 with our family and marriage counseling was scheduled for the upcoming days. Even though I called his “separated” wife in April 04 to let her know she was separated and going through an amicable divorce…news to her. Even though…..well, you get the picture.

The psych said that I would say its “wrong” and give my reasons, and WW would say it’s not and give hers. My son would be in the middle having to decide which of the two hemispheres in his world was correct. He, in the psych’s opinion, will not be sophisticated enough to come to any conclusion. I did not, however, ask if it was appropriate to just tell him in objective terms how the affair is the reason for our split and the now seemingly inevitable divorce. As I may be the one to file, I am now considering the value of that approach. I will consider it carefully, as once spoken there is no unspeaking it. Of course my WW will counter that this marriage was over 5 years ago and the affair is not “the reason” for the split.

I’ve almost concluded I will tell him. I will not speak in judgmental terms, I will answer all questions honestly or not at all if the question is inappropriate. I will reveal to my son that regardless of what happens in life I will speak the truth. In that regard I will be open about any shortcomings I have as a spouse. In my opinion, he will know one day anyway as WW thinks she will ride off into the sunset with OM.

Your son is obviously becoming a young adult. His value system has a foundation already and his view and questions will be far more unambiguous than a 7 yr. olds. His world is about to have a nuclear bomb thrown into it and he will surely want to know why. Reading your post I’m convinced you will tell him. I agree. This event can be spoken of in factual, non derogatory terms. Though this breach of the marital union is specific, it deserves no more secrecy than the transgressions you listed. If and when your son marries, I have no doubt your insight will be required as he traverses through the undulations of marriage. Would you rather spring this on him at a crisis point in his life as you attempt to give your opinion credibility or to emphasize a point? It will come out one day. You couldn’t build a big enough closet for this skeleton.

I look forward to reading all replies and discussion regarding this topic as it is so very timely for me.

Tough question. You may not be able to tell your kids now b/c of the age issue, too young to understand. But, at some point, you should tell them. Also, your W should know this is coming, otherwise it will look spiteful. I know you don't want to tell them to just make W look bad, but your sons will likely lose some respect for their mother, but it was a choice she made.

I am still slugging thru recovery. I have not told my daughters (9 & 5) b/c I promised if we tryed to work it out, I would not tell them. Of course, my W does not want the girls to find out, but knows if we do not work it out, I WILL tell my daughters. Why shouldn't they know if that is a major cause of the failure of the marriage? I agree with you, you should be able to gain respect in the eyes of children, especially later when they can comprehend what lengths you were willing to go (and pride you had to swallow) to not only retain your marriage, but to keep that close relationship with your children. To be honest, if not for my kids, I would be divorced by now.

NCW,

I am kind of surprised the 13 yo hasn't asked why yet.

I go back and forth over this in my mind also, with telling my 10 yo why I left her dad.

Rosie reminded me that the truth is always best.

You need to ensure open/safe communication with your sons, now and for always. More so now because of the divorce. I don't have to tell you that their entire universe is now badly shaken, and their inner security threatened. You must be the connection to security for them, because RAP is not going to be. Not for awhile anyway.

You will have to make sure that the stranger(s) she lets into their life is not going to shatter them any more. They need to know that they are always safe to come to you with any and all things. That you will receive their communication with openness and kindness, and not bash their mom (I know you won't but). If they sense anger in you towards their mom, they will be less inclined to share with you what they must be able to share with you.

If you want honesty from and for them, then you must be honest with them.

Tell them in the kindest possible way, for them and for their mother. Sometimes the truth can hurt, so we must be very careful in how we present it.

NCW,

I don't know what else I can add here, but just want to say that it's best to present the situation in as simple terms as you possibly can. Don't go into a detailed explanation, because each child WILL ask the questions they need answers to....so follow THEIR lead...make sense?
Affairs are a symptom of problems, some personal, some marital, as well as the cause of some!
My parents divorced when I was about 14....the one thing I felt at the time was that I was supposed to choose sides, and that was the HARDEST thing about all of it. Even at that age I understood that my dad had a problem and I was ANGRY at him for hurting my mom. Obviously I didn't completely understand, or I wouldn't have found myself in the same position years later.

I wouldn't try to get them to understand all of this all at once. Just keep the dialogue open and let them know you will answer any questions they have, and then wait for them to ask.

They will ask the questions that they can handle the answers to.

Best to you,

NOW

NC: Just to add to the discussion, we didn't tell our two youngest. We did tell the oldest D. When we started MC, the youngest told my SIL that mommy and daddy were going to the doctor's to get better. As believer said, kids know more than we realize most of the time.

Had we not been able to recover, I'm not sure when we would have told the kids, though I believe that at some point we would have. As we've discussed that at sometime in the future we need to tell them just so they have the knowledge to head off issues such as this in their own life. (Both now* & my parents have dealt with A's that we were hardly cognizant of and had we known it may have better prepared us to deal with this.)

NCW, you have such incredible strength, character and integrity, I'm sure you'll do the right thing. Just tell the truth in the manner most appropriate for each. Answer any questions they have and then tell RAP that you told them. She'll be mad as he!!, but that's life.

My prayers are with you guys,
RH

P.S. I know that I wasn't much help last time, but the offer is still there if you need someone to talk to or email. Good luck.

(edited to add: We told the oldest we were having marriage problems and that we would be seeing a counselor to work through them. Her first response was, "you're not getting divorced are you?" We said that we hoped not and that is why we were going to a counselor.)

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]</small>

Interesting set of responses to a tough question I have not seen addressed before.

As I said, I have already made my choice and am very interested in the arguments presented here.

It seems that the opinion of telling the kids is winning the day.

My choice is to NOT tell them. At least for now.

I ask myself what the purpose would be?

There are only two purposes that could be served by telling the kids (assuming their lives or health are not in jeopardy).

Number 1: To make them dislike their mother.
Number 2: To make them like, or respect, their father.

So why not tell?

Number 1:
Well, she will end up doing a fine job all by herself of having the kids not like her. The real world is bearing down on her like a freight train. She has been able to go out and “meet the needs” of this new OM because she has a noble, trusting, giving husband. She doesn’t have to work. Her husband picks up almost every ball she fumbles with the children. So she can meet the new OM fully rested and able to give him her all.

That will all change.

She will now have to work and get up in the morning regularly and responsibly. She has no skills and quit college back when we were dating. I have quite a lot of skills and can use them to negotiate things like when I report to work with my employer. So for me, getting the kids to school without her is not really an issue. Will be huge for her. Employers generally frown heavily on people who can’t arrive for work at the scheduled time. She has not had to exist in that kind of rigidity (and frankly has no appreciation for it as one of her FAVORITE lines to me has always been “Work is a break, I’m with the kids all the time”) for some 15 years. I could go on and on. She just doesn’t have, or hasn’t really shown, a servant’s heart. 3 boys are demanding and they have needs she will not be able to meet IMO. Yeah. She is in for a shock. All of a sudden, this sexy, desirable, willing woman will be “too tired” for the OM. And the frequency of their trysts will decline. Then what? She won’t be the same woman he started the affair with. She will be the boxer without the coach in the corner dusting her off so she can go “another round.”

Who will suffer? The kids. She has ALREADY chosen her selfishness and the OM over them, why would that pattern not continue? And they will come to their own conclusion about whether or not they “like” their mom. Heck, it would be in my best interest to GRANT her primary custody, so she really sees what she threw away and the kids get a dose of their “real” mom. Not the one daddy propped up, dusted off, and gift wrapped for them. But that would not serve the kids best interests. Don’t worry. They are most important to me now.

Number 2:
Since when do someone’s GOOD feelings towards me EVER result from BAD feelings toward SOMEONE ELSE??? Doesn’t work that way. My kids will love, like, and respect me for who I am and how I treat them. Not because someone else screwed me over and they know about it.

So I would ask again, now that I am arguing for the other side, why would you tell?

If THEY ask me, I will tell the truth, but I will not initiate the conversation.

When they enter “relationship age” I fully intend on teaching them how a man properly treats a woman and will probably bring it up then. Most definitely I will discuss things like love languages, his needs/her needs, affairs, and such with them and their fiancés when they are older. The value of the truth, IMO, will be better served at THAT time.

Most of my questions were rhetorical. And as I said earlier, the primary reason I broached this subject was because I had not seen it broached. This kind of discussion is invaluable for those who read hear, as most everyone is making decisions with their emotions in high gear.

One of my favorite quotes by Ben Franklin is “Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.” So hopefully this will help others make sense in their own situations.

And, in truth, every situation has its differences. I may have chosen otherwise if the circumstances were different.

Please keep this topic going, I am still very interested in hearing the reasoning out there. There is quite a lot of wisdom on this board.

NCWalker

NOW and RH,

Was working on my post when you guys popped in.

NOW raised an excellent point I neglected - forcing them to choose sides, or rather, the knowledge of the A making them feel like they have to choose sides.

Why do that to the kids?

NOW, like the name change. Very clever and fitting. RH needs to follow suit, how about "Improving H" because that is what he is now?

RH, if you still have my number, give me a call. I am at home, not at work anymore. I will look for yours.

NCW

NCW,

Thanks...the name change thing was at the suggestion of FL-T2M....I love it, too!

I agree with you about not telling the kids the specifics of why you two are divorcing. Be as general as you can. Like I said, they will ask what they want to know, and then as you said, you will not lie. The divorce will likely be a lifelong discussion.....my mom still wants to talk about it!

{{{{{NCW))))) and {{{{KIDS}}}}

and especially {{{{{{RAP}}}}}


NOW

There are only two purposes that could be served by telling the kids (assuming their lives or health are not in jeopardy).

Yep the two you listed would most definately be reasons NOT to tell the truth.

The reason to tell them the truth is because (besides it being the truth) is because it will open up communication with your children. How are you going to answer their questions and have honest discussions when you have hid the truth?

And we are talking age appropriate and simple truth as NOW has suggested. Simply answering their questions as kindly and honestly as possible.

If this affair is infact the reason for your divorce than what other reason would you give them? Where would you go with the communication with them?

If your only reasoning behind telling them the truth would be to have them choose sides, then of course keep quiet.

If your reasons behind telling them the truth is out of love for them, the love they have for their mother and for the sake of honest, open and ongoing communication then you must tell.

They need to understand and to have their questions answered honestly and without bias or hidden agenda, where possible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Binder:
<strong>

The psych said that I would say its “wrong” and give my reasons, and WW would say it’s not and give hers. My son would be in the middle having to decide which of the two hemispheres in his world was correct. He, in the psych’s opinion, will not be sophisticated enough to come to any conclusion. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he is not sophisticated enough to come to a good conclusion, that is what parents are for! I find this advice downright frightening, Binder. What your son is actually learning from this is that women are JUSTIFIED in having affairs and leaving their family. So, instead of achieving moral neutrality <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> he is learning that wrong is right. HE is telling you to NOT teach your child right from wrong because someone else might have a contradictory opinion? huh? So what? How, pray tell, does the boy learn right from wrong? From osmosis??

I am sorry, but I think that is horrible advice. It is advice that landed me in counseling for YEARS because my mother would not validate my feelings that something was very wrong when my father took me to hotels to meet his girlfriends.

I sensed something was very wrong with this set up but I figured I must just be a stupid girl because apparently others did not see what I saw. This caused great confusion and self doubt in me as a child. I could not count on my instincts. I desperately needed a SANE adult to validate my feelings of right and wrong and GUIDE ME in my moral training.

Children NEED moral training to navigate this world and put things into perspective. If you do not give them this, they will get it somewhere else. And your son is not a dimwit. He can understand that cheating on your husband and leaving your family is not right. If you don't tell him it is wrong, he will believe it is RIGHT, because no one is saying anything. He already senses something is very wrong. Talking to him about it would validate his feelings and help him put this all into proper perspective.

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

[oops!

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

So then maybe the best thing is to tell them the reasons behind the affair, since that is the bottom line anyway. The affair was a symptom of other problems, and for the 14-year old, he may only be able to focus on that "horrible thing my mother did" without really understanding what is behind it. KWIM? The younger ones won't even understand what an "affair" is, and much of the description that has to be used isn't even in their vocabulary yet.
My 16-year-old brother really had a hard time dealing with the knowledge that his dad had an affair....he was EXTREMELY angry at him and thought he had to take over my father's role in our house.
NCW's 14-year old most likely already has an inkling....and if not, he will certainly wonder pretty soon. At that age, things they do not understand are VERY scary.

NCW, whatever you decide, I know there will be a lot of prayer behind it....so I'm not too worried what you decide!


NOW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> NOW, like the name change. Very clever and fitting. RH needs to follow suit, how about "Improving H" because that is what he is now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny you should say that. I've been thinking about this thought for the last week or so. Dday is in two days, though today (or maybe next Monday is when I found out last year-it was on a Monday/Presidents Day the 16th). So when is my dday? Doesn't matter. What I was thinking was what should/can I change it to. I remember thinking when I picked the name that I could change it to Recovered H once we recover. I think over the last year, I've come to the conclusion that recovering and rebuilding this Marriage will be a life long project. One that I can enjoy and share with notonlywords*.

I do like the thought of Improved H, but then I'd have to sign my posts with IH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Seriously, we love you and will be praying for you guys. Protect yourself and your boys and pray for RAP. Hopefully, whatever is going on in there, she can get sorted out, for the better.

Melodylane:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Of course he is not sophisticated enough to come to a good conclusion, that is what parents are for! I find this advice downright frightening, Binder. What your son is actually learning from this is that women are JUSTIFIED in having affairs and leaving their family. So, instead of achieving moral neutrality he is learning that wrong is right. HE is telling you to NOT teach your child right from wrong because someone else might have a contradictory opinion? huh? So what? How, pray tell, does the boy learn right from wrong? From osmosis??

I am sorry, but I think that is horrible advice. It is advice that landed me in counseling for YEARS because my mother would not validate my feelings that something was very wrong when my father took me to hotels to meet his girlfriends.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry NC, a bit of a thread jack in that I’ll be addressing Melodylane’s comments, but it’s within the topic at hand.

Mel, I want to do what’s right concerning my children and have not committed to a course of action yet. I appreciate your personal insights and resolute opinions regarding this matter and will consider that POV. My sense of the aftermath of revealing the situation to my son is that it will likely not leave him with a stronger moral compass, but a sense of vertigo.

Once I tell him, of course without the gory details, he will approach his mother. She will go on about how we were already “separated” that this is not adultery, and that it has been a bad marriage for 5 years and that is what caused the break-up. My son, having no more reason to believe my POV over his mother’s will simply be left to decide between the two of us. I cannot see him taking either side as gospel and may very well decide “If mommy says it’s OK, it must be”. His morality may then be acquired by her model. Right now he has not been exposed to the flagrant promiscuity that you were.

Just to illustrate how exposure to adultery has affected my WW’s sense of morality I will reveal what she observed in her childhood. Her mother was an immigrant from Germany moving here with her father who was in the Canadian military. She had one daughter prior to WW who died after 1 week of life. She became pregnant with WW and things settled down to domestic life on the base.

FIL found himself a girlfriend. He runs off with her and leaves MIL. WW observes the devastation it brings and MIL certainly lets her know how wrong it is. FIL is a deadbeat dad and marries his OW. MIL becomes promiscuous and mentally unstable ending up in a hospital as a result. WW spends time in foster homes in the interim until MIL regains her mental health and becomes a devout Christian.

WW’s exposure to the obviously destructive nature of an A has obviously not deterred her in her choices. I know that my S will eventually learn of the choices his mother made, but I’m not sure now is the time to address it. Like NCW, I will not lie to him and will answer specific questions, but I’m not sure if now is the time to instigate the discussion.

After reading this thread last night, I dug out Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. She addresses this topic briefly and advocates telling the children as little as possible, though she doesn’t specifically address the topic when one parent leaves for the OM/OW. If I had the book here I would quote it.

So my dilemma continues for now. I will continue to seek opinions and suggestions until I feel comfortable with the direction to take. I don’t feel the need to rush my decision, but I do feel compelled to have a discussion with him if I initiate the divorce as that is what seems to be the likely scenario.

Further to the family history above, WW still simply adores her father. He is single now as his OW ditched him for another OM and left him to raise two daughters he had with OW. He has continued to be irresponsible and has ended up in financial dire straits. So now he lives with WW taking care of my children while WW works and continues her affair in OM's town.

P.S. It’s good to have you back Mel!