Patriot is gone today. He's off to in-process into the Army. Since he has been working from home I always know where he is, so it's odd having him gone. He'll be 1 1/2 hours away. He may have to spend the night. This makes me a bit nervous because he used to live in the city he's in and he knows a lot of people - a former girlfriend and God knows who else.

I'm not going to worry about that just yet, though. He may NOT spend the night there and then I will have worried for nothing. I'll worry about it later if he calls me and says he has to stay. He did say I could come down there depending on his accomodations, but I have two teenagers and I don't feel comfortable leaving them alone overnight.

Something has been on my mind the last couple of days. I'm worried that I'm "falling out of love". How does that work, exactly? Can it happen? I feel very detached from him and kind of emotionless. Maybe it's a kind of self-preservation, I don't know. I really would like to take him up on his offer to heal and have a great marriage. A big part of me hates him for everything he's done. I don't know how to begin to forgive him. I don't know if I even want to. I must, or I wouldn't be here. I resent that I feel obligated to try to meet his EN's. I feel that he cannot meet mine because if he tries to say something nice, I don't believe him. I don't believe he loves me. I think he is immature and selfish. I think he is just scared to be alone. I have no idea why he married me. I have asked him and he says "because I love you." That's not any kind of answer, IMO, because he supposedly loved me during his A, and he didn't want to marry me then. I want to know what suddenly made marrying me such a priority when it never was before. I want to feel for him. I don't want to detach from him emotionally. I feel like I'm married to a stranger and it is very, very lonely.

Well, he's coming home this evening after all. Glad I didn't waste my time worrying.

frozen, I am glad Patriot is coming home. I think you will find as you work through this that sometimes you will feel lonely and confused. Talk to Patriot about these feelings, don't hold them in. I can see from his posts that he is sorry and wanting to work through this with you.

{frozen}}

Froz-

Hon, you're not falling out of love with him.....the way you feel is a defense mechanism. It's normal. He has to EARN your trust again. He probably feels as helpless as you do in all of this because he can't change the past, he can only change the future.

Are you seeing an IC?? You need to if you're not. You need to sort all these feelings out. You have EVERY right to feel them....but they're gonna eat you alive if you don't deal with them.

You've been done a great injustice, and you're p*ssed about it, and rightly so. You miss feeling secure in your relationship.

Why don't you just take it one day at a time. Deal with the feelings you are having today. Why don't you start a journal......where you write how you feel in it, then he writes how he feels.....sometimes it's easier to get it all out on paper.

I think about you a lot Froz, I've been there, and it sucks [censored].

I really think that my WH and I will recover from this, he's flippin' out not being able to talk to me, so I think he'll cave and meet my demands eventually. And I don't know how recovery will go, I've been holding so much anger and hurt in, I might blast him....although I'll try not to.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you're not falling out of love with him</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You sure about that? Why do I feel so emotionally detached, then? What if it isn't temporary? What if he is just lying to trick me into staying with him so he won't have to be alone? He even lies to himself!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't you start a journal</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not a bad idea

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it sucks [censored]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That, it does.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he'll cave and meet my demands eventually</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm quite intrigued, witnessing an actual Plan B in action. Who needs reality TV?

Thanks for your response. Stay strong.

Froz

Hi Froz:

I've been keeping up w/you & Patriot for a while now. You've been getting great input from several caring folks on here so I've kind of kept quiet. However; I read todays post and would like to throw in my 2-cents if I may!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not going to worry about that just yet, though. He may NOT spend the night there and then I will have worried for nothing. I'll worry about it later if he calls me and says he has to stay. He did say I could come down there depending on his accomodations, but I have two teenagers and I don't feel comfortable leaving them alone overnight.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your "worry" is valid; and understandable. I realize that Patriot is coming home; however circumstances like this are bound to come up in the near-future, so why not talk about them now?

How do your teens feel about the situation with you & Patriot? If they are supportive; I feel you should tell them that when you go somewhere with Patriot, you need their trust & support and ask that they remain within your family boundaries while you're gone. They will most likely want to act appropriately in your absence. It gives them a sense of "helping".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really would like to take him up on his offer to heal and have a great marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then do it!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A big part of me hates him for everything he's done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understandable!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know how to begin to forgive him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've already begun to forgive him. You're there trying aren't you? That is the first - and biggest gesture of forgiveness. Patriot should see this action for what it is - and be damn thankful!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm worried that I'm "falling out of love". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are falling out of love! This is part of your healing process and I would be surprised if you did not feel this way. Remember that the A is like an emotional cancer that must be totally removed before proper healing/loving can occur. In other words; you will need to "fall out of the former emotion" that you previously called love and re-learn a new, different and better form of love. It's the old "1-step forward, 2-steps back" routine. Pretty soon it becomes "one step forward, one step back" then "2-forward, 1 back" and so on. I feel that you're rushing your emotions just a bit in trying to recover old feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A big part of me hates him for everything he's done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understandable. It will pass - over time. Remember that love & hate are oh-so-close! Patriot can and should understand this and help you to love him again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if I even want to. I must, or I wouldn't be here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Righto!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I resent that I feel obligated to try to meet his EN's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understandable! Talk about this with Patriot. Ask for a 10-day break from feeling like you have to meet any of his emotional needs - then talk again. Perhaps you need 20 or 30 days; or maybe just 5. My bet is that you'll be desiring to meet some of his needs in a fairly short time. Ask him for this latitude. He should understand and gladly accept.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel that he cannot meet mine because if he tries to say something nice, I don't believe him. I don't believe he loves me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK - you own these issues and this is your homework to complete. Try opening yourself to believe him in small doses at first - then gradually offering more doses. Do not expect perfection - but only accept respect! Patriot owes you respect; and I feel he will agree.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he is immature and selfish. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He was acting very immature and selfish. How about now? If he is acting selfish - he needs to stop! If he's acting selfish; ask him to post it on here and several will talk to him about it. Be careful in keeping prior actions separate from current actions. I know it's hard, but do your best; and then some!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no idea why he married me. I have asked him and he says "because I love you." That's not any kind of answer, IMO, because he supposedly loved me during his A, and he didn't want to marry me then. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He was fog-bound during his A! You know that to be true! You're still hurting. Allow yourself that! I believe he does love you, perhaps now more than he ever has. He may not know how to show you. Why don't you tell and show him how?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I'm married to a stranger and it is very, very lonely.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Explain this to me. I don't understand it?

FR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FR,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do your teens feel about the situation with you & Patriot?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They don't know the situation. I'm know they are not stupid and they see that something is going on. Immediately after D-Day, we rarely came out of the bedroom. We stayed in there with the door shut - talking, crying, etc...I told them I was sick. After that I guess they just assumed we were talking and stressing about Patriot's deployment. It is a little easier now for me to "appear" somewhat normal. Once, I told my daughter (Miss Intuitive) that I was just going through something very difficult and that I didn't want to talk about it. That was honest. Maybe it was wrong not to tell them the whole truth, I don't know. It didn't feel like the right thing to do. It would tear them up. They adore their new step-father and he makes them feel secure. I didn't want to take that away from them. Maybe someday I will tell them, but not now.



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He was acting very immature and selfish. How about now?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes. Usually, he makes a conscious effort to appear unselfish. I realize he has to start somewhere, but sometimes I view his "unselfish" actions as not genuine because it seems forced, like it's not how he really feels but makes the effort anyway because he thinks it's the right thing to do. Last week, I really did feel like giving up and told him so. We were discussing divorce. He, at first, said he didn't want that. After a time, he just said that if it WAS going to happen then he had to take care of himself. He was worried becuase he doesn't have a car right now. Based on the fact that he was being deployed, we traded in his truck and my car and bought a new car for me so I would have something reliable while he was gone. It hurt that he gave up so easily. I felt like he didn't consider me worth fighting for. He has been telling me things like "I can't live without you", etc...This seemed like a contradiction to those statements. It was more like "Okay, if I have to live without you, then can I at least have the car?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know it's hard, but do your best; and then some!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It IS hard to keep his past actions separate. I have been pretty unselfish in this relationship. Once, when my car was out of service, he had to go out of town for his 2 week reserve duty. He was driving there. He claimed to feel bad for leaving me and the kids without a vehicle. I bent over backwards to reassure him not to feel guilty, to just go and I would figure it out. After he left, I even walked to work in the BLAZING heat (about 3 1/2 miles). I now know that he spent the last three or so days of his "duty" in the Bahamas with OW while his truck was parked at the airport.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He was fog-bound during his A! You know that to be true! You're still hurting. Allow yourself that! I believe he does love you, perhaps now more than he ever has. He may not know how to show you. Why don't you tell and show him how?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It may sound weird, but it seems like he is fog-bound NOW, by "suddenly" wanting to be married and his behavior during the A was how he TRULY felt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I'm married to a stranger and it is very, very lonely.

Explain this to me. I don't understand it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I feel like I don't really know him. I thought I did before. He bent over backwards before the A, trying to portray himself to be completely in love. He was such a GOOD liar. This was not a case of his EN's not being met. I did pay attention to our relationship and nurtured it. That's part of what makes this so difficult to understand. How could I be meeting every EN and the A still happen? I thought we had a wonderful relationship. He told me we did. He seemed so genuine and I was completely fooled. I didn't know him at all because he lied about who he was and what he wanted. I'm sure HE feels better now that he's doing the "right" thing. He has known all along he was living a lie. I just now found out that our life was a lie. I miss our life. I was very, very happy and I miss our life and who (I thought) he was. I am now presented with who he really is (maybe). This person is a stranger to me. I don't know what he is capable of. I just know he's not the person I thought I knew. I miss our life and I miss my friend and I am very, very lonely for him. I wish I had him here to make all of this go away. Does that make sense? It did in my head.

Froz:

Very busy this morning but want to spend a little time on this. Will get back to you!

FR

I have to work today, too. I'll be home this evening. Thanks . Have a good day.

Frozen I know exactly how you feel all I thought when I read was me too!!! Not knowing this man who I have know for so many years. This man who for 2 yrs. verbally abused me, cheated, deceived me, who the hell is he. He is not my H. So now I am left with did I ever really know my H is this what he is capable of ? Can he have A and hide them so well. Was he always a cheat? Does he lie all the time. Cover things up. Then I realized not long ago that he always has blamed others for his mistakes. Where have I been all these years. Rose colored glasses blinded me. Now we see what we have and do we like them still? Never mind Love them. It is confusing and I for one understand you. Maybe time will bring things back to what they should be - but I to feel empty. Going about without emotions. Find myself just shrugging my shoulders -I don't care and taht protects me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Going about without emotions. Find myself just shrugging my shoulders -I don't care and that protects me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Realtor,

I do relate to how you feel, too. The above statement in particular. I feel this way about everything lately.

Hi, frozen.

I think you and patriot are doing well.

I wanted to talk to you just a bit about your concern that you are 'falling out of love'.

It is true that the feelings of love change in amplitude all the time. Some days we feel especially close to our spouses, some days, we don't. Some days, when we think we should feel really close, we don't. Some days we are surprised that we feel close, and we shouldn't.

Most of that is brain chemistry. Feelings can be nice, and fun, warm and fuzzy, cruel, full of hate and venom, and unforgiving.

Feelings, are kind of like wayward spouses. You just can trust them too much.

That is why you must deal with choices in your life right now.

You made a choice to love Patriot. You made a choice to marry him. Right now, you are going to have to choose to not seriously consider the ebb and flow of your emotions regarding Patriot or the affair.

You will have to choose NOT to listen to emotions that tell you that you are depressed and since you are depressed, you will have to act a certain way.

You have to choose NOT to listen to emotions that tell you that your life will always chew bubble gum from hell.

You have to choose NOT to read "tea leaves" in the bottom of the cup of Patriots emotions. There is no way for you know exactly how he feels, in the same way he can't know the level of your pain. He is suffering too.

I will also tell you no one can completely ignore their feelings. What you DO have to do, is view your feelings within the context of their existence.

Others here are already telling you that. What they are saying is that it is NORMAL for you too feel this way. That statement is often overlooked by people that need to hear it, because it seems to be what people always say to other people that are in TEMPORARY pain.

The reason people say that strong emotions are normal, and that it will pass in TIME, is because it is true. The way you feel right now, like all other emotional states, will change in time.

This is why the CHOICES you make, regardless of how you feel at any time, are what matter in life.

You see that simple truism reflected in many areas of our lives. It is in marriage vows and your license to drive a vehicle. The bible is full of it front to back. You teach it to your kids.

Just because you are suffering from more extreme amplitudes of emotions right now, does not mean that simple truth has changed in any way. In only means that the emotion has.

Our lives, without emotion, would truly suck. Emotions make a field full of flowers beautiful and the sight of a dead bird, sad. Emotions unbridled by the straight line of rules, rules largely comprised of our own choices, would be the quick death of civilization.

Simply put, our choices must define boundaries for our emotions.

All the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you and patriot are doing well</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, we are NOT because he KEEPS LYING!!!!!!!!!
In the beginning I asked him some specifics about his A. He gave them to me. On more than one occassion, I have asked him the same questions again, only to get a different answer. This happened just now on the phone. I asked him before what hotels he went to with OW. He said it was always the same hotel. I asked him just now on the phone, he said four or five different ones. WHY DID HE LIE ABOUT THAT????? Like it would have made any difference! If he gets backed into a corner he just claims he can't remember, to avoid giving an answer and having to be accountable for that answer later. I think he is a pathological liar who doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie. He doesn't care about honesty (my biggest EN). He doesn't care if he hurts me. Recovery with him is a waste of my time and will only cause me more pain, which I CAN NOT HANDLE. What the hell am I supposed to do? He can't even be honest about things that are irrelevant. He's probably lying about a lot more than that!

Froz:

I re-read a post from Patriot titled; “Back in the Game”. Is Patriot seeing IC about these issues? I assume that these issues were major contributors to Patriot’s A and it’s going to be hard for your M to move forward until these issues are resolved.

IMO you and Patriot are making a major mistake by not telling your teen-kids! Much like BS’s; they can handle the truth and desire for you to believe in that! I’m not saying they will like it, but they will ultimately respect both of you for telling them and as they are part of this family; have every right to know. I feel that Patriot should be the one to tell them with you present. He and you should answer all questions they have. I also feel they will offer support to you! By not telling them; you are actually “protecting a lie” about their stepfather, which is a bad message to send to your kids. If Patriot is up-front and honest about his poor choices and subsequent desires to “make right”, the kids will feel more secure with him than ever. Also; Patriot will quickly realize that from now on, he has more than only you to be a man for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes. Usually, he makes a conscious effort to appear unselfish. I realize he has to start somewhere, but sometimes I view his "unselfish" actions as not genuine because it seems forced, like it's not how he really feels but makes the effort anyway because he thinks it's the right thing to do. Last week, I really did feel like giving up and told him so. We were discussing divorce.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is always a degree of unfairness in A situations. However unfair it is; you must become proactive for your M to grow. Both of you need to decide to eliminate D from conversations and thoughts. You’re either going to make it work; or you’re not! The “selfishness” issue is something that he should be working on with IC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It IS hard to keep his past actions separate. I have been pretty unselfish in this relationship. Once, when my car was out of service, he had to go out of town for his 2 week reserve duty. He was driving there. He claimed to feel bad for leaving me and the kids without a vehicle. I bent over backwards to reassure him not to feel guilty, to just go and I would figure it out. After he left, I even walked to work in the BLAZING heat (about 3 1/2 miles). I now know that he spent the last three or so days of his "duty" in the Bahamas with OW while his truck was parked at the airport.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally relate to your message here. This is a painful process. You are going to have unspeakable visions of the A. Only time and a commitment to truth and love from Patriot and you will help make this work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It may sound weird, but it seems like he is fog-bound NOW, by "suddenly" wanting to be married and his behavior during the A was how he TRULY felt.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From reading about his past; he is now treading in water that he is unaccustomed to. He realizes he must do this in order to keep you and improve your M. Give him credit for venturing into these new waters. He probably realizes that he should have been doing this all along and is now learning how to function in this new environment. I feel he is making the right moves in this case. As to whether his behavior during the A was how he truly felt – only Patriot can answer that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess I feel like I don't really know him. I thought I did before. He bent over backwards before the A, trying to portray himself to be completely in love. He was such a GOOD liar. This was not a case of his EN's not being met. I did pay attention to our relationship and nurtured it. That's part of what makes this so difficult to understand. How could I be meeting every EN and the A still happen? I thought we had a wonderful relationship. He told me we did. He seemed so genuine and I was completely fooled. I didn't know him at all because he lied about who he was and what he wanted. I'm sure HE feels better now that he's doing the "right" thing. He has known all along he was living a lie. I just now found out that our life was a lie. I miss our life. I was very, very happy and I miss our life and who (I thought) he was. I am now presented with who he really is (maybe). This person is a stranger to me. I don't know what he is capable of. I just know he's not the person I thought I knew. I miss our life and I miss my friend and I am very, very lonely for him. I wish I had him here to make all of this go away. Does that make sense? It did in my head.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here’s the deal: I believe you when you say you were meeting the needs that he told you about. However due to improper upbringing; his actual needs at the time were warped and not conducive to a healthy M. He didn’t even know what a healthy M or relationship looks like! I assume that he saw proper behavior in you and was attracted to that. Then when he realized he was unworthy of you, he reverted back to familiar (and highly-inappropriate) behavior. All bad thinking and worse action! Now he is showing desire to repair his thinking and thus repair your M. Does that make sense?

FR

It makes sense -just a word maybe what is needed like time and actions. I think my H needs me to tell him straight out what I am expecting. Takes the romance out of it but maybe he can not remember what it was like to woo me like he did long ago. I was very disappointed on V-Day -how about Frozen were you happy with V-Day ?

Freeze another thought maybe our WH's are still on their journed of becoming H's again and the WH still is there a little. Maybe we need to continue on with plan A for a little longer. I think mine will be more honest with me when he feels safer in our M. We seem to be getting little bits of information everytime they are asked a question. I know I have reached the point that if he wants to tell all I do not think I will be shocked. Maybe the the numbness is for this reason. Protecting field around my heart from more hurt. I think he is getting ready to tell all. Who knows. Good luck and prayers to you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you and patriot are doing well</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, we are NOT because he KEEPS LYING!!!!!!!!!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay. I should have said that "You and Patriot are doing as expected".

I understand your need for truth. I understand your need for complete honesty. You must also face the possibility, and I am NOT saying that he is, but there is a very real possibility that he is telling you events the best he can remember them.

He may also be omitting certain details because he fears your reaction.

I know this sounds counter-productive, but you are going to have to help him feel safe enough with you for him to come completely clean.

Pariot. that is NOT a license for you to make any demands of your wife. For now, you stop resisting your wife, regardless of the reason. You must be an open book.

BOTH OF YOU MUST TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT while you are going through this.

Quote:
---------------
I think he is a pathological liar who doesn't know the difference between the truth and a lie. He doesn't care about honesty.
---------------

That type of disrespectful judgment from you toward Patriot is behavior that will cost you your marriage. You need to stop it.

You can do this, frozen. Do what you can to rope in your emotions.

All the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">view your feelings within the context of their existence</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have read this post about 50 times, trying to absorb it. I can't begin to explain to you what a foreign concept this is for me. After read # 50, I think I kind of understand what you are trying to say (it sounded like Greek the first time I read it), I just have no idea what methods to use to accomplish this. I am probably THE most emotional person I have ever met. I make decisions and conduct my life based entirely on emotion and intuition. I have never considered this to be a character flaw. I want to ask you if it is, but I'm afraid of your answer. If you say yes, I will feel like damaged goods because this quality is something that defines my personality. It is what enables me to possess some of what I thought were my best qualities - being giving, very loving, understanding, empathetic, etc...Maybe I need to read it 50 more times.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I make decisions and conduct my life based entirely on emotion and intuition. I have never considered this to be a character flaw. I want to ask you if it is, but I'm afraid of your answer. If you say yes, I will feel like damaged goods because this quality is something that defines my personality. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Frozen - You are NOT 'damaged goods' and there is absolutely NOTHIHNG wrong with basing your decisions on emotions and intuition! Please don't feel like you have to change your personality, because you don't.

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He may also be omitting certain details because he fears your reaction.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He has admitted this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but you are going to have to help him feel safe enough with you for him to come completely clean</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How? What could I have said or done differently to accomplish this? I feel the emotions strongly when this happens (anger, fear, pain). I find it very difficult not to express them. Should I just choke them back and simply say 'Well, Patriot, your answer contradicts a previous answer you've given me. I seem to feel a little angry about that' (in my sweetest voice). I may actually need some scripted response to accomplish this. Even then, I may not succeed. It reminds me of the way I forgot and abandoned Lamaze breathing during labor. As soon as the pain started increasing, I would panic and forget and become consumed no matter how many times I tried to formulate a plan to combat it between contractions. I opted for the epidural eventually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That type of disrespectful judgment from you toward Patriot is behavior that will cost you your marriage. You need to stop it.

You can do this, frozen. Do what you can to rope in your emotions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These were the last words I read before I addressed Patriot. I looked for your post the second I walked in the door, before even saying hello to anyone, and then I turned around and sat down with him. I apologized for my earlier behavior. I didn't want to hurt him. I thought I did everything right. I comforted him and spoke kindly to him. We pulled out some MB literature and were about to start addressing EN's. Things seemed to be headed in a productive direction (almost lead to SF, even). Until I was talking to him and he started falling asleep. I felt pretty unimportant. I still remembered your words and I didn't react emotionally. I just accepted that maybe tonight's work was at an end and I should let him rest. When he noticed that I had stopped making an effort and wasn't being a little detached...I don't know what happened. Things went haywire. He started ranting and raving about how inconsiderate it was of me to interrupt his sleep all the time with my needs. He also thought it inconsiderate of me to call him at work today because I was upset. That made me pretty angry. It was his decisions that caused this. It seemed selfish to me that he viewed his desire to have a peaceful workday as more important than how I felt. I wanted to get my pillow and go sleep on the couch. He asked why. I calmly stated that I understood that he was tired, but that it feels very lonely to lie next to him while he is asleep and I felt a bit hurt and unimportant. He freaked out. He jumped up and grabbed me and even threw me around a bit. I shut down. I said nothing. He apologized, but then did it again. This behavior is scaring me. He has never done this until recently. It started with just grabbing me to prevent me from leaving the room. Now it has progressed to this. I no longer felt safe to talk to him so I just listened to him when he calmed down and apologized again. I responded to everything he said after that with "I understand" until he went to sleep. I fear we are growing further and further apart instead of together. I don't know how to reach him and I don't know how to let him reach me. I sure miss my best friend.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 04:03 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>