Dani
I read the web site...the evil side of...
the really evil non pro plan B side of me...wants to send it out to his parents....
and friends and family etc....

hey why not he's posted in the internet for heavens sake.....
but that is the very evil wicked side....
though Lord knows there's no harm in MAKEBELIEVE......just ask Mr. Rogers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The other side though Dani tells me for you to seek compassion for your husband...which sounds trite and probably unbelievable....AND impossible
but look at the words and things he has posted...

and gosh they are sad...shallow empty and pathetic....not even in this case a reflection of anything of any of the good emotions and RESPECT that real love brings....

A man that posts such things about his "woman" does not see her or himself as anything beyond the feel good cheapness and shallowness of the other woman...
he does not treasure her...he uses her as a weapon against you....
he uses her in a most cheapening way...

imagine the reaction of people if your husband were to go around in words professing his accolades as he did on this profile...

can you see it...bunch of people at dinner hanging out...
"the best thing about my woman..
the nicest thing I can come up with to say about her...
is how fast she makes me "come" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

please add your best hick twang to the above statement.....cause it really needs one...
(no offense to any hicks with twangs out there...)

it's pathetic....

and any woman that supports a man posting such things on a website where it can be viewed by any....does not see herself either as anything more worthy than this reduction to grotesqueness....

your husband IS lost to you right now danielle...but he is lost even more so to himself and to what is right in this world...
lost to the actions that define us as good men...good fathers....and compassionate humans to our fellow humans.....

know this....
remember this...
and see his attempts at hurting you...nothing more that actions of his own self hate turned outwards....

stay protected and removed....
continue to move gracefully through this....

pray for him danielle....seek Gods serenity and the grace for just peace...and the ability to hold on to the compassion that his lost soul needs so very bad....

he's certainly in my prayers...for he certainly is most lost among us........to the good gifts of life...especially his children....pity and woe

I know this sounds all pollyanna....
but I always do root for that dang underdog...no matter how big the dog is..

ARK

I live in Indiana...we have enough going on here, what with the Camm family's trial...

An Indiana State Policeman charged, tried, found guilty, and sentenced for killing his wife and two small children only to have the case thrown out as a mistrial because the fact he had multiple A's shouldn't have been brought up and tainted the trial <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He's out on bond now and waiting his second trial...

David Camm Trial Overturned

WOW, that is CRAZY!

Do you live anywhere near Terre Haute?

Danielle

Dani,
I don't post often but have been keeping up with your story. I'm from Maine, which part of Maine are you from?

SH01

I was born in Fairfield/Waterville area
Grew up in Wiscasset/Brunswick area.

You?

Danielle

I've live in Winslow for the last 20 years..... small world. I'm originally from Mass but Maine is now my home.

Sh01

Not near Terre Haute (thank goodness if that is where her new HW business will be).
I live in the southern part of the state, can't you hear my twang?

congratulations danielle... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I knew you'd do well. You did superb and you were a lady.

Wow...I love what the judge said.

Know you're in pain right now...it seems surreal doesn't it? I know...walked in your shoes beginning 2 years ago on valentine's day (was my first court appearance with x). It draws the line in the sand. For me was the public unveiling of the xh's actions and I almost did not believe it (hence surreal feeling). The duality of his lives came out in court. and I know you saw it also.

Imho..you were SUPPOSED to see the stuff online...I would ignore it, but by all means PRINT IT OFF AND SAVE IT FOR YOUR NEXT LEGAL ATTEMPT. He is very very foggy and tripping off into oblivion with the mistress at his side. He will lose everything. He very well may.

I would immediately go into plan B and make immediate decision to protect yourself and your children now...that means legal separation from this piece of crud. Your x is behaving irrationally and will most likely do that with his finances now. You need to secure something so he will have to stand up and do what is required of him as a father.

Do not get caught up in the what if's now...he could come around but as of now, as of today it is a longshot.

Make sure your recorder gets you second copy of this so you can use the court docs in any other legal proceeding. I would hire attorney, stack it up against him, let him know he can walk off into the sunset with his hodog, but you want as of now, nothing more than for him to do the right thing by his kids financially. I'd behave as all business, cutting off all ties as of now.

I am appauled at the words this man wrote on a public site. He is lower than any animal that is able to procreate
You can always either stop a divorce, end the separation, or remarry. but again, you hold all the cards..he holds nothing now.

It is time to do the right thing. Protect yourself and the kids.

And unfortunately, by allowing yourself to have any contact with him, especially the day before your court appearance, you are becoming the GLUE THAT BINDS THEM TOGETHER. remember that one? do not be their glue. let them LB and fall apart on their own.

no more contact. how can the idiot say he was living in a nightmare when he was doing nothing but eating cake 24/7? It is easy. he's looking to validate his poor poor behaviors. do not validate it in any way. leave them alone to their sinning and their shame.

what did it for me, was when my xh stood and lied in court and when they (my legal counsel) read aloud the papers I did not see...showing how he had spent the same day hundreds on lingerie, flowers, and 30k in vegas and I couldn't even pay my electric bill. People patted me on the back as I walked out. A few clapped when I won first case. There were gasps from the courtroom at the revelations revealed that my xh did...and I never saw him in the same light ever again. That man my xh is now...is not the same person I knew. And sadly danielle, he did not return. He got worse.

At some point, the ws comes to a fork in the road...maybe more than one time. and they have to choose. Ours chose unwisely. I know that I could never trust my xh again after he publicly put his hand on a bible and said the words he said. He made me completely sick. I stayed in bed almost 2 days after it...was a wreck. My lb went to negative five billion after that trial.

I know you miss what was..but as Orchid says, Dani, you miss your H...not the WS...sadly, some of the h's and w's out there that are waywards, never return from the state known as a ws...they just remain as they are..very sad and lost. You don't want a man back like he is...and honestly, what is it you're scared of? for me it was finances and just being alone. I felt as though my H had died. In a way, he did that year. He's been replaced by an evil body double...but not the same man at all.

I say go dark. focus on you Dani, and the sweet kids. Cut him outta your life. Get started on a legal separation for financial support and child support...after all, the dumba$$ admitted to a judge in a court of law (and you have it recorded legally btw for furter evaluation by a family court judge) that he is living with ow, and is moving to be with her out of state, thus abandoning the kids...you got him by the cajones.

If it were me, I'd add my profile up there and add a twist to it.

I'd say...

Danielle is proud to announce her upcoming independence. In approximately six months, yes I repeat, six months, this lovely, intelligent, and classy young, mother will be available and single once more. Please kindly bookmark this page, as she will want to make this change known to likewise gentlemen of the same relationship status...single!

Stillhurting,

I live in Otwell! I have never been through the infidelity torture chamber (thank God), I come here to learn and to make sure I do everything possible to keep my marriage happy and healthy to my wonderful dh! My Dh grew up in Petersburg!

You are right down the road.

FYI: OES whipped up on WES last night during the 5th grade basketball tourney <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Dani,

Posted my email earlier in this thread. Looking for a favor from you. Can you drop me an email?

Dobie

Dani,
I've been thinking that your WH's profile was likely put on the website by the OW...to get your goat.

Ignore it as the childish attempt to hurt you that it is.

Stay strong! It sounds like the judge was as impressed by the OW as our judge was about our xDiL....NOT! LOL! You did great in court! Keep documenting everything, and don't let the childish antics get to you.

Remember that YOU are the one who's in control of your life...and NOT anyone else!

LC

Thank you everyone...

Dobie, I e-mailed you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ark...your post keeps running through my head whenever I think of WH. I go for a bike ride with the kids, and think 'maybe if I just call him and say to him that we are out riding he will want to join us' and then I remember your e-mail and realize that in fact my H is sick right now. He is so lost that he is another man, a WH.

We have had no contact since court. He called me and e-mailed me on Friday to say that he would get me his separation from the military orders 'soon' so that the Navy can move the kids and I to Maine. He said he has to have his 7.5 days terminal leave approved first. The message he left on my cell phone said 'And you know you could unblock my e-mail so we can discuss **** like this, but that is entirely up to you, as you have proven.' He is not getting ANY tax money from me if he doesn't mail them to me, so whatever he decides is fine with me.

I just got back from a scrapbooking weekend that I had won in January. It was really nice and I had a lot of fun. Most of the people slept at the convention center, but I came home at night to take care of the kids. It was about an hour and a half away, but in the country. I had fun, adult girl time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am working on last years pictures so virtually every layout had my husband in it. I am trying to get to the point where I am able to embrace the love that we had and the family we were. He was a wonderful man. I am trying to separate my feelings towards my husband, from my feelings towards my WH.
He had such an amazing smile, and you couldn't miss the gleam in his eyes when he was around the children and I. Now he seems so shallow. I get teary eyed when I see pictures of my husband....but I remember that he is even lost to himself right now.

On the drive home I wanted to drive by the place where OW and WH are staying to see who was there, and possibly if OW had moved yet........ I didn't. I am forcing myself not to drive by, call, etc....

Lady, I am almost sure that my WH did the profile himself, but I am sure that the OW had something to do with it, and their intention was to hurt me.

I am getting a bit upset with his command again. When I talked to his Command Master Chief (CMC) he seemed to have things 'set up' to take my WH to Mast and charge him with UA and missing ships movement. Well that was 2 weeks ago now. The Commanding Officer (CO) was at school not last week but the week before. The CMC said that WH would go to Mast last week when the CO got back. I called the CMC again on Tuesday of last week to see what the status was. He said that my WH would 'probably' go to Mast on Thursday or Friday but he wasn't sure. Well here it is the following Monday, and NOTHING. I am starting to think they are brushing it under the rug again.... One of the guys on the ship told me that this is not the case, that things take time...BUT...how much time? He signed acknowledgement of the charges on 2/3/05. Sorry about my pointless rant.

Danielle

Well my WH is at XIO right now (where the executive officer hears his story), then this afternoon he will go to Captains Mast (with the commanding officer). I just got an e-mail from a friend on the ship who told me that.

WH did call me last night, and after I didn't answer 3 calls he left a message saying that he had something important that he needed to tell me.

So...next call I answer.

He wanted to tell me that he needs to have his 7.5 days terminal leave approved before he can get his separation orders. Yea yea yea, he has already e-mailed me and left me a message saying this. Why call to? Then he says that he has my CDs that were in our truck on the ship if I want to come pick them up. Just want I want to do....
Goes on to ask how the kids are doing, how I am feeling, etc. The whole time I am quite short and to the point. Then he says 'Do you know how your Dad and Mom were after they were divorced? Do you know how my Dad and Mom were after they were divorced? It doesn't have to be like this. We were together for 6 years and we had a lot of good times and we can still be friends" I said 'but I am your wife' He said "See, but you have to be friends before you can be husband and wife"
Then I said something very similar to Orchids post about him finding his happiness at our families cost, but that it was OK because his happiness was more important right now. He said 'I am trying' and 'I want to be the children's Father again, and I want to be your friend again, but I just can't be your husband'
I explained to him that this 'friend' role was not anything I was interested in.
He then claims that my all or nothing attitude is what is making the children not have their Father in their life because I am being to stubborn to let him be their Dad and my Friend. He said he hopes one day once the OW and he are married I can come to terms and be friends with him.


Then he asked about our tax money, and how much I was planning to give him. I said 'Not sure'. He is going to throw a fit if I don't split it, but I don't feel it is right to split it so he can move the OW....

I finally just said that this conversation is getting no where, I am not interested in discussing our relationship with you at all if you are still with OW, and hung up.

He called back and left a message saying he hoped I would talk more tomorrow because 'it doesn't have to be like this danielle'

It is our daughters 2nd birthday today, and he said he wanted to call and talk to her today. I just don't feel like talking to him anymore. We get no where!!! Yes, I have an all or nothing attitude and he has a friends attitude, and they just don't mix!
WH did have a friendly attitude and calm tone but he just doesn't see what I am saying..

Blah!!!

Danielle

I feel like e-mailing my WH this...
Probably not a good idea since he ALREADY knows how I feel. I just wonder why I tell him, and then he calls we talk and he wants to be 'friends' Did I not explain clearly that I am not interested in that? Should I try again? AHHH!!!

"Adam,
I enjoyed talking with you last night and remembering so many wonderful times that we shares and how special our marriage and friendship was. I hold those memories close to my heart, and our children do as well. I look at pictures of our family and smile. I remember how happy and how amazing we both felt when we were together as a family.
To communicate with you on a level other then that is not something that I am interested in or willing to do. Our children need a stable family, not a half here and half there family. They need a Father, who is there every day and every night, and a sence of an intact family, that supports them at every turn. I will provide that for them at all costs.
As I explained, your happiness is what is important right now, so please continue to be happy, and I will continue to provide the best support possible for our children and myself.
For our well being and to protect our love for the wonderful man that we know you are and have the capability of being, I need to separate myself. This will allow you to see the decisions you have made without me in the picture.
I have told you before, and I will say again, that I know that our marriage could not only survive, but it could thrive if we both wanted it to. We both made mistakes in the past, both you and I. You were right when you said that I wasn't meeting you half way, and I accept that. I am now at the end of the road....looking for you. I close my eyes and I see you and I both living in Maine with our two children, years from now, deeply in love. I know this is possible.
Our tax money is for our family. It was earned from your income and child credits. We will use that money to build on our family, shall be it our children.
I have accepted the situation for what it is, and therefore I am protecting myself and the structure of our family to the best of my ability. I have made it clear that you maintaining no contact with Marci would be necessary for communication and vital for the recovery of our family. I know you don't see it as possible right now, but I promise you, it is. Because I know that, and I know that if we began to recover our marriage and family we would have so many people supporting us, I am in the position I am in.
Your wife, Danielle"

I know he will call me today...
I feel like I am waiting for the bomb...
Good mood, or bad mood? I guess its a card game...

Danielle

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: DanigirlinVA ]</small>

Don't do it...

What he is asking is for a limited cake eating situtaion...he wants to leave the door open, to maintain an R with you so he can continue to have his EN's met by you...that OW is not hte be all end all of EN fulfillment, and needs that friendship to continue so he can continue with her..

I think sending an email would be great, but a very simple one defining what communication would be like in the future...this is hte time to set down a boundary.


Here's an example:

WH,

We can maintain contact for child situations only. I will enetertain questions and answers for anything of pertenance to our child(dren?). We will have no other R other than that. You have chosen to discontinue the R with me and have chosen D from me that includes any friendship we may have had. I will not be the OW in your new R with OW. (can fill in specifics about what communicaiton to allow...visitation schedule, dr.s/school info, etc. and how to do it, voice mail, email, etc...)

There is NO NEED To maintain a friendship with WH other than co-parenting, and for the subject to be about the kids...

They are giving up on the R, therefore any other friendship would not REALLY be a friendship, but a guilt releasing selfish act. The WS has to talk you into being frineds so they won't feel so guilty about what they have done (see, it didn't turn out so bad, we are still friends...)

Dani,

Good to hear from you. Glad you are holding up well. Communication with a foghead is hard to do.

A note regarding the e-mail. If you must keep it to business. Not to the 'enjoyed our convo' lines.

BTW, when he throws that 'let's just be friends' crap, remind him that you don't need friends who even admit they have not been a good parent. Maybe when he decides to be a good parent you can 'think' about it. See WS' don'l like t/b told what to do. So don't. Don't tell him what to do. Instead accomplish the same thing by saying what YOU will 'think about'. NO commitment from you. That leaves the WS in limbo land and you with your feet firmly planted on the ground.

Remember he still things this OW is butter when she is really a tub of lard. Not even margarine. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So as long as he is buttering his bread with lard and thinks he is eating butter, there isn't a whole lot you can do. The health risks will show up later. Let him stew on your words. Don't have to reinforce anything. Remember reaction in the fog is slow.

Your best ally is patience.

All the best,
L.

Oh yeah, add to that a scheduled visitaiton WON'T occur if OW is present and/or if WH appears drunk.

Well I just got an e-mail from my friend on WH ship.
WH got 30 days restriction, 30 days extra duty and a $400.00 fine today at Mast.

He has not called here yet.

I think the reason I felt the need to e-mail him (I never actually sent the e-mail) is because I feel like MAYBE something I say will sink in. Maybe if I say it differently, or let him know that our marriage CAN thrive, or if I remind him that we were happy, or if I give him hope, or, or, or....etc. I think maybe if I say the right thing at the right time he will realize that he belongs here with his family.

I think maybe the best thing is to just not e-mail him at all.

Then I feel like if I ignore him completely and have no communication even if he tries, it is just going to make him more angry towards me. If that happens there will be NO hope for reconciliation.

On the other hand, me not giving him what he wants of the tax money will do the same thing...

I can't win!
Danielle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA:
Well I just got an e-mail from my friend on WH ship. WH got 30 days restriction, 30 days extra duty and a $400.00 fine today at Mast. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Fitting considering his condcut aboard ship. Minor victory. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Should make him think twice about doing this again.... hopefully. Don't hold your breathe.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: He has not called here yet.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Whether he does or not is not your issue.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: I think the reason I felt the need to e-mail him (I never actually sent the e-mail) is because I feel like MAYBE something I say will sink in. Maybe if I say it differently, or let him know that our marriage CAN thrive, or if I remind him that we were happy, or if I give him hope, or, or, or....etc. I think maybe if I say the right thing at the right time he will realize that he belongs here with his family. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: You are trying to justify contact. This makes you vulnerable and puts you in a dangerous place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: I think maybe the best thing is to just not e-mail him at all. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: This is a good idea. Keep telling yourself that NO contact right now will keep you safe.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: Then I feel like if I ignore him completely and have no communication even if he tries, it is just going to make him more angry towards me. If that happens there will be NO hope for reconciliation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: You are not ignoring him. Just giving him his space. Remember logic travels slow in the fog. He may think he can get you to give him your share of the tax refund to pay his fine. Imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> As for no hope for recon, right now there isn't any. You can have hope for recon when the WS turns into an Xws at the very least. He isn't near there yet.

For now work on protecting you and your child. Strengthen you inner resolve to survive. Work as if he isn't coming back. I know this is hard but it is reality for now.

You can't force him to come back. He needs to convince you he is worth having back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: On the other hand, me not giving him what he wants of the tax money will do the same thing... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: The $$ is a separate issue. Don't mix emotional decisions and $$. Not a good mix.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>DanigirlinVA: I can't win!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Yes you can. U R! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What he is asking is for a limited cake eating situtaion...he wants to leave the door open, to maintain an R with you so he can continue to have his EN's met by you...that OW is not hte be all end all of EN fulfillment, and needs that friendship to continue so he can continue with her..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree with this. If he can leave you in the spirit of friendship....then he can leave you with a clear conscience. The EN that he wants filled here BY YOU, is for you to assuage his guilty feelings, so that he doesn't have to go around feeling like a jerk for abandoning his family.

Well, ya know what? You can't walk out on your wife and kids without a backwards glance and then convince yourself that you're a NICE GUY. That won't wash in the REAL world. It only works in WS fantasy-land.

The sooner you put PAID to the whole "let's be friends" fantasy the better off you'll be, both now AND in the future. If your marriage doesn't work out, you're NOT going to want him in your life later. (I know that seems hard to believe right now, but it's true.)

See honey, he's got you buying in to the idea that it is YOU who is living in fantasy land. He's got you thinking maybe he's right, and you're just being stubborn in the face of the modern-day divorce.

But the reality is that it's your WH who doesn't 'get' it. Once you are finally forced into moving on with your life, he will become an intrusion into it, and nothing more.

You are clarifying his choices for him when you refuse to feed his fantasy. It really IS all-or-nothing. There is no middle ground, because in the end....you won't want his friendship.

As far as the tax return is concerned, I think that if it were me, I'd forward a list of outstanding debt to him, and agree to give him half of whatever was left after reaching an agreement on the bills. I think that it might be better to negotiate this, rather than to be high-handed and build further resentment. JMO, but I think that this is something you could work together to reach an agreement on.

However, I would REFUSE to discuss anything with him at this time that was off-topic. It should be business only. He has not EARNED your friendship, and can never do so while treading the path he has chosen.

It is possible to compartmentalize these issues, and probably necessary to do so at this time. If you don't....you're just feeding the beast.