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Hi, FIM. Just wanted to comment on your emails "disappearing" Did the Dork have access to your computer? Is he computer savvy enough to send you and virus or something to destroy the emails and other stuff?

I might be overreacting but that is the first thought that came across when I read that.

And, I would also get a computer geek to try and retreive this evidence on your PC. THey can sometimes do that if the files are not overwritten.

Hugs {{{{FIM}}}}

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Good luck with the new job. Hugs

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I didn't realize there were responses on this thread until this morning! So, here's what's happened in what seems the lifetime since I wrote that...

I did send the full letter the next day. I also scanned more pages though because I realized I left out some important things.

Not sure what has happened with it at this point. I haven't heard from their Cpt. yet. It's out of my hands.

Dork is still saying he is coming back to Tacoma and leaving next Friday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Anyone wanna bet something happens and he doesn't leave on Friday?

Anyone? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for me and the kids, we are busy packing up the house. It goes on the market next Friday. I'm moving stuff into a storage unit for a while. My real estate agent thinks the house will go quickly and that I should make a decent amount off of it so I'm happy with that.

It's sad that we bought this house almost exactly three years ago at a great point in our marriage. We were so excited to buy our first home and had planned to raise our kids here. Three years changes a lot! But, I was worried that I wouldn't make anything after only 3 years and I will. That is a blessing right now and I'm taking it as such.

I haven't got the job I wanted yet. Either I'm severely depressed, ignoring reality or have an extreme faith that things are going to work themselves out. I'm not freaking out so something is going on!

On the subject of the computer and my missing emails, I think that Dork was on my computer when he was here a few weeks ago. I'm not sure when since I don't remember him being alone and in my room, but I let my guard down and didn't password protect everytime I left the computer. I always have before. This time I didn't think he would have access. So, all he would have had to do was go to my email and there is a file called xxxxxx and xxxxxx stuff. It would have been fairly easy for him. DAMN.

WH used to work for a computer software company and oversaw installations at hospitals so he is pretty knowledgable. A friend of mine does something in computers....all I hear is blah blah blah when he talks about what he does..... and he looked everything over for me and said that it looked like a simple deletion of emails that Dork did.

My MIL is pretty heartbroken that I am going through with the divorce. She sees me as the only redemption for her son. She also understands though and has said many times that I held out longer than she would have. She just wants to make sure I know that it will never affect our relationship. I KNEW THAT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dork is still rambling about wanting to work on things when he gets back. He says that he's broken off the relationship with OW although he still has strong feelings for her. He told me he still sees her occasionally since some of his stuff is still at her apartment and will be until he leaves.

He does now say he doesn't know if it will work out with us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (First clue was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ) But he wants to try. He realizes he should never have left in October and now wants to pick up where we left off and keep trying.

I told him we are picking up where we left off. We had a final divorce court date set up for us the day he left. He had the divorce dismissed the day before that. I figure we'll just pick up right about the point we were finalizing the divorce.

Just pick up where we left off in Oct????? Where the hell do these people come up with this stuff?

So, that's what is up in the FIM world. I've got to get to packing but I'll be around.

Thank you everyone for all of the support and advice.

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So sad.
Still sitting on the fence.

I like the line, only goes there because his stuff is there. Really. One day at a time. There will be less of a burdon with the house sold. You will be free to move if you find a better job elsewhere. It is so sad. I remember when we sold our first home. I found out about the OW right after it sold. We were renting again and it would have been so easy to just pick up and leave. It gives you more options. Is he working? If he is not, he is really having a major breakdown. Complete abandon of responsibility. As I have said before, this is not the man you married. That man is gone for now, so keep with what you are doing. That man doesn't exist right now. If he is working, I hope he is sending some money for the kids at least. I cannot believe he abandoned his kids like that. He really needs to look in the mirror. What he is doing is evil. How will he ever face his son? His father must be rolling over in the grave. His actions are of an adolescent at present. His happiness before all others. I am angry at him for you. I do believe in karma and I wish him no ill because he sounds like he was a decent man in the past, but his time is coming. I believe he will be left alone. The OW will also awake, she is too young for all this baggage. She too will move on. He will be alone. So sad, consequences of actions. He will have to work a miracle to win you back. I don't think he realizes this.

It only takes a moment to find a job when the right one comes along. I do believe there is a greater force at work. Things happen for a reason. You are doing all that you can. Keep smiling-you have that beautiful family.

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Waiting to hear if he is travelling this a.m.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by StillHereMakingIt:
<strong> Waiting to hear if he is travelling this a.m. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stillhere....you crack me up!!!

He's not on his way.

BUT, please understand that is not his fault or because he hasn't been trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You see, he hasn't been able to sell the trailer yet (although there is a buyer now....there is a dealer who wants it). And, no, the fact that he didn't return half of the calls he got on it from the ad he had has NOTHING to do with the length of time it took to see the darn thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And on top of THAT....the bearings (sp?) in the alternator are going out. You know, the alternator that was just replaced on his trip TO San Antonio in late October? Yeah. It's gone bad on him. And wouldn't you know it, although there's a warantee on the thing, there are no companies that honor that warranty in San Antonio.

Can you believe his luck? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Jeez.

But, you MUST understand, he wants SO badly to come home to his kids and to me. Even though he knows I want to move on, he wants to just have the chance to show me how much he knows he was wrong and hurt me. He WANTS to have the chance to take care of me and his kids.

In fact, you know what? He even wants to change his cell number to prove he is out of contact with her (yeah....he did that in October too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) He wants to send me a picture every night and morning to show he is at a hotel and not with her (yeah....he did that one before too). AND he wants to answer every call that comes through to him and call me every few hours to show he is not with her until he gets here (yeah....once again.... that has been done before too).

I told him that if he ever really DOES get back to this state, if he takes care of his kids, supports them financially, emotionally, spiritually and developmentally and gets himself together I might regain an ounce of respect for him as a father.

As a husband and a man though....nope. That doesn't come back. MAYBE, if he were to get himself together, keep himself that way and prove himself to be better than he ever was BEFORE this......I might talk to him about it a few years down the road. Maybe.

I have really sat down and looked at things (with the ready and able help of my father <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) over our entire marriage and there were things there the whole time that I just didn't clue into. Those are part of who he is....not who he has become.

Anyway....so NO. He is not on his way. The kids expected him to be though even though I told them to wait until he actually left before they started getting excited about him coming home. Once again, he has let them down.

Bast@rd.

And you know.....this probably isn't the best place for this....but I've had two margarita's with dinner and so here it goes!

It has been since OCTOBER 14TH!!! since I have touched or been touched by a man. No kisses or caresses or special moments or even lingering glances. I'm sick of that!!

I enjoy my own company just fine. I enjoy shopping and reading and driving and even just workoing around the house by myself.

But I miss the simple knowledge of knowing that my man is coming home to me. That somewhere, at sometime during the day, my man is looking forward to seeing me. I miss having someone that I want to see more than anyone else and anticipating sharing the day and a little alone time with them. I want to know my guy is coming home to me and can't wait to get the kids to bed and me to himself. I miss the excitment of getting my man to myself and thinking of ways to make that time a little more enjoyable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And here I sit, with the three kids in the living room ready to watch a movie and me looking at a night alone again in my nice big comfy bed with nice clean Downy soft sheets and no one to roll around on them with!!!

I am sick of this!!

End of rant. A few 'Rita's and the night just seems so much longer than it used to.

And the crappy thing is....even if he WERE on his way....or even here....I'd be in the same darn A.L.O.N.E. and randy place I find myself in tonight.

Oh well....really now....end of rant.

I just can't wait to see where I am....and I'm hoping it's not sitting on the computer at 7:30 alone on a Friday night....next year at this time!!

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Wow Faith, only October 14th!

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tummytuck:
<strong> Wow Faith, only October 14th! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

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LOL.
I suspect some ovulation induced talk going on here.

Um. Margaritas are very good for putting things into perspective!

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FIM,

Been thinkin' 'bout cha'. This kind of typing is w/o the margaritas. LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well you certainly have to wonder what this WS did with your sane H. I mean he is now stuck/forced to be near the OW because of a trailer? Hm..... that's a new one. I guess that's why he has to have s3x with her also? HA!

I'd say, he really needs to bond with that trailer and see if that trailer can meet his needs. In reality you have t/b strong. His line of reasoning is down right scary. Wouldn't trust him with a pencil much less your family.

I wonder if the WS really know what their babbling sounds like? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hang tough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

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yeah but think faith once you DO find a man....all that pent up sexual frustration makes the sex 10 times better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...hehe I my self haven't been with my WH since sometime in late july.....I know your frustrations girl....ol Mr. buzz doesn't cut it after while...*hugs* don't worry karma will hit his A$$ hard and you will get a good dose of good karma just to piss him off. I guarantee it.

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: surviving in his wake ]</small>

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I am so sorry you are having to go through this, with a man with a fickle, foolish heart.

When FWH left, the thing that really hurt wa sthe rejection, to think that he didn't want ME. I can only imagine what your girls are going through. Right now their self-esteem is so fragile, they look up to their Dad as the pinnacle of men...what to expect from their boyfriends and future H's. I hope they are not taking this too personally, but I fear they are.

And I know you are too...you sound very strong, and are able to handle this, but no H for over a year? Your poor son, who has never really known his dad.

I am so sorry...

Please think about going to NC with him... and limit the contact he has with the girls so they can heal from his hurt. It would be easier if they were only allowed to talk with him once or twice a week, than expecting calls from him that never come...

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FIM...

StillHereMakingIt:
"Please think about going to NC with him... and limit the contact he has with the girls so they can heal from his hurt. It would be easier if they were only allowed to talk with him once or twice a week, than expecting calls from him that never come..."

That is such profound advice! The pain & damage to a child "expecting calls that never come", is so deep & longterm, especially if it's allowed to continue on.

FIM, I have experience with this. I have a 31 year old cousin, more like our son, who still struggles with the longterm damage of when he was young and "expecting calls (& visits) that never came".

StillHereMakingIt is absolutely right. I cannot stress enough, how much I agree.

I, too, am so sorry. I think of you all the time, and wish you well.

Isleepwithacat
Isleepwithacat@yahoo.com

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Thank you for the advice.

I am keeping out of contact with him these days. Mostly just because I have no desire to talk to him though.

As for the kids, he does call them with surprising regularity these days. He also answers the phone when they call which is something he rarely did before.

I did put my foot down on his telling them he's coming home. He still hasn't left SAT and who the heck knows if he'll ever get around to it. I told him that when he actually gets here and gets settled, then tell them he's back. No use in telling them he's leaving....and then not....and then is....and then isn't.

It just hurts them.

He also needs a place to stay when he gets here and I won't let him take the kids without a safe place to visit with them in. He absolutely can not stay here and we're moving soon anyway (as soon as the house sells) and I'm not planning on allowing him to hang out with them at my apartment.

So, I told him that once he gets settled, he should surprise them by BEING back instead of COMING back.

He's agreed to not talk about it anymore with them.

Limiting the talk time between them is something my father brought up this weekend. I'm thinking about some of the points he had and am going to ask the counselor that my older daughter has gone to and see what she thinks too.

It sucks that they even have to go through this!! I'd love to just take him out and beat him with a hose!! He doesn't deserve these kids anyway! And they deserve better than him.

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Jumping in because I have red flags all over the place.

Limiting talk time? Good God, you can't be serious. (Uh, these are his children, are they not?)

My dad was not much of a Dad at all. And waiting for calls that never came was (sadly) a very significant part of mine and my brother's life. Visits were few and far between and did very little to foster a close bond.

But guess what. My Mom NEVER came between us kids and our Dad. She never bad mouthed him, never restricted visits or dissuaded us in any way. When we were let down and crushed repeatedly, she was repeatedly there for us with a movie and some popcorn and absolutely NO disrespectful judgements. She never tried to explain his behaviour to us or make us feel better about his actions, only loved us. I only found out that there had been court battles and unpaid support in my early twenties. And not from my Mom, either.

Now, years and years later, I look back and think that she handled it in exactly the right way.

Having shared that, I'd also like to add my experience with my ex-wife who had plenty to say to my son about me and also several periods of 'limited contact' that were, at her unilateral discretion, in our son's best interest.

My opinion, besides the fact that her decision making had nothing to do with our son's best interest, is that that was not her call to make. Not only that, but the damage she caused is still there, years later, and will most definitely be something my son is going to need professional help with later.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that don't forget that for better or worse, this is your children's Father. He's gonna make mistakes (like you will) but that isn't going to change things.

My advice is that you encourage as much contact as possible. I think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks tenfold, and besides, if you ever end up in court and it's made known that you limited contact without a valid reason (physical abuse, etc) that will be a BIG strike against you.

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Oh, and by the way...

I'm thirty four years old now. I'm in fairly regular contact with my Dad. I know and see him for who he is. Faults, virtues and all. There is no wool pulled over my eyes at all.

Also, he is suffering now for his actions then. We just lost my brother and I can see that my Dad is facing a lot of demons.

Things will work out in the end. Just make sure that you are a force of Love in your children's life. Be the best Mom you can be and let him figure out the Dad part.

Ok. I'm done now. Really. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

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dewt,

I really appreciate your response. Like I had said in my post, it has been something I have been thinking about since my father brought it up this weekend.

I have been reluctant to limit any time between them for the reasons you pointed out. I've asked him to keep promises out of his conversations with them.

I do worry about the girls though. The oldest one has so much anger (she's 10). Most of the time she refuses to talk to him and when she does talk to him, she is short and then moody for a while afterwards. I think that's when he brings up his "I'm coming home" promises...as a reward for her talking to him. It gets her excited and she talks about daddy coming home and then BOOM! daddy has an excuse for not coming home. Her counselor has suggested anti-depressants. (NOTE: The doctor my kids go to is pretty anti-med's for kids. The fact that the suggestion was made for both of them blew me away because I've always liked the stance they take on medicating children.)

The younger one (she's 8) was always a daddy's girl and yells at her oldest sister for being upset with dad and not talking to him. She acts like she's breezing along and that each time he doesn't come home when he says he will, she just says...he'll be back soon.

She has nightmares most nights, has chewed her fingernails and cuticle down to the first knuckle and has become totally anal about certain things in her life. Her doctor saw her fingernails at her last appointment and asked her to leave the room while he asked me what was going on in her life. He thinks she has serious anxiety issues....probably stemming from the last 8 months...and referred her to a psychologist. They want to put her...my 8 year old...on anti-anxiety meds.

The baby....well, he thinks a guy is called dada. Any man he sees he points to and calls dada. At least it's a step up from thinking the phone was a dada though.

Anyway, my point is that navigating the waters in this is hard. At what point DO I become the barrier to their pain.

I don't bad talk their dad. They know he has a girlfriend though (they figured that out themselves). I haven't limited the interaction between them.

HE chose to move out of state to be with OW. He chose that over being with his kids. Remember, he had been deployed for a year when he came home for two months and then left.

He doesn't even know these children anymore!!

He has no concept of what it is to hold them after they talk to dad or after dad doesn't answer the phone all day when they try to call to share something about their day with him because he won't answer when he is with OW. He can't imagine what it is like for a little girl to lose her daddy.

He comes from a wonderful family. He had a mom and a dad. So did OW. They both come from stable and loving homes. He just refuses to see what is happening with them.

I look at myself as their mom and wonder how I contribute to this also. I don't bad talk him. But do they pick up on my pain and internalize that? My oldest is a protector. She tries to make me and her sister happy and sees her dad as the bad guy. I know that. How do I take that away from her? I don't know. And it's because of HIM, the DORK, that I'm even having to question all of this!!

Sorry.... that all spewed forth in about two minutes! I'm a bit overwhelmed right now.

The point is, I don't know what I'm going to do. I am very reluctant to step in and take that position because I do question if that's even my place to limit the contact. Then, I wonder if it's not my place, who's supposed to protect their hearts? Who's supposed to shield them as much as possible from a father who doesn't care what his own attempts to make himself feel better about his parenting do to his little girls?

Then I wonder if it's anyones place to that. He's not physically abusing them...of course he hasn't bothered to be with them physically either! But what is it doing to them emotionally? Their little hearts are tender and fragile. You're only a little girl once in your life. They shouldn't have to wonder why daddy doesn't come home. Or keep his promises. Or go to their games or First Communion or pick them up from school or tuck them into bed.

Does it make sense to limit the number of times a day or a week they talk to him? You know, I don't have that answer. I'm too emotionally tied into those girls.

If I could, and if I was able to justify it, I would stand in front of them and take every bit of pain and sadness that comes there way and shield them from his selfishness.

Dewt, you may be right. Maybe I just need to keep holding them after the pain is inflicted. I don't know. It's something I've only just begun to consider and maybe (not holding my breath) he'll actually get his tail back to this state and be around for the children soon. I do pray that is the case.

I think about most things LONG and HARD before I go forward. If I were to do it, it would be some time and only after consideration with their doctors.

I do thank you for your reply because what you said mirrors what I tend to believe. I'm just wondering if I need to look at it from another angle too.

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Well, there's no doubt about it. He's racking up quite the karmic debt. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I read your reply 3-4 times... there's so many things I wanna discuss with you about this. I have my son waiting for me to finish my break and return to the late night video game party we are currently enjoying. (This son of mine also bit his fingernails till they bled, so I know that feeling)

But there was one thing I wanted to jump in about...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithinme:
<strong>At what point DO I become the barrier to their pain...

...The point is, I don't know what I'm going to do. I am very reluctant to step in and take that position because I do question if that's even my place to limit the contact. Then, I wonder if it's not my place, who's supposed to protect their hearts? Who's supposed to shield them as much as possible from a father who doesn't care what his own attempts to make himself feel better about his parenting do to his little girls?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really though, is this something you can actually 'protect' them from? I don't think so. At least not without causing further trauma. Right now, you are their touch stone. Their stability. Their refuge in a world that is currently in a state of chaos and uncertaintly. I know it's tough, but they can't afford for you to become another source of anger and conflict.

I think rather than protect them from this, it's your job to help them cope and get through it. Hopefully along they way, they too will get stronger and build some skills that will help them in a world where you will NOT always be there to protect them.

It's tragic that their father is currently out of his head and is the source of these trials. It really sucks. But that's out of your control.

I'll try to get back and write a bit more tommorrow.

John

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FIM, I'm with dewt 100%, please read carefully his words...

You cannot protect them from pain! Especially not by 'removing' them from that pain... You don't want to teach them to escape but to face ANY issue they have and WILL have in their life! To teach them to cope with! Right?

Besides, I don't think you have the right to restrict their talking'seeing with THEIR father.
UNLESS he's abusive and put your kids in danger!
They might feel abandoned already; if you restrict already poor communication - what's left for them!?
You HAVE TO tell them their dad loves them!
For their own's sake!
One day they will learn everything and form their OWN 'judgement'...

Please never teach them that they can escape their problems by using anti-D!!!
I'm so against this, and NOBODY can convince me that children should be given EVEN IDEA that they can decrease pain using drugs! (Even the adults).

They need now your love and learning HEALTHY technicks to overcome (in this case) loss!
Let them mourn!, if you need, join a group to learn more about how to do that (someone here suggests Rainbow and similar org.)

Please, please, don't teach them anti-D is solution of any (ANY) problem!

One more thing (I have to rush to work, and sorry if I don't sound clear, or sound hursh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ):
You said - "they figured that out themselves"...
FIM, they did NOT!
It is almost impossible WE don't transfer our pain (and anger!!) to our kids, and nothing you should be blamed for... but the more you try to show them healthy ways of dealing with these feelings, the more chances you have they will learn and apply those healthy ways on themselves.

And, FIM... when I see my son loves his dad a lot, I feel pain, it is not fair, for I do everything for him... BUT if I distinguish and take out of it my own hurt - boy, I'm so happy my son grows loving his parentS and being loved by them!
And your H may do this and that, but he loves them, his own way.
And let your kids have AT LEAST that what he offers now, better than nothing!

Kisses to your kids,
and to you too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

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I feel very strongly about this, so pardon my words.

Yes, you have the right to limit contact with their Dad. Right now what he is doing to the kids is akin to abuse and you are telling the kids they have to put up with it because he is their dad.

You are allowing more pain in thier lives right now than is good for them (as you can tell by their physical reactions) I can only guess what is going on in their minds and hearts.

Yes, pain is good, adversity is good, to a degree.

It is a bit like having an addicted father and allowing the children to talk with him and be around him anytime they want...even when he is high and spewing drug-addled talk.

Yes, PLEASE, limit the conversations the girls have with dad. Do not allow them to call whenever they want. Their hearts are breaking, and every phone call that goes unanswered breaks their heart more.

If you were to limit the contact, then you would be the bad guy instead of him...not something you are willing to do. You are selfishly allowing yourself to look like the good guy in this case...not fair to your children.

Limit calls to twice a week...perhaps a Friday night (to catch up on the week) and a Sunday night...to start the week off right.

You'd be amazed how well the girls will do when they are not faced with the thought that daddy is not calling.

All I'm asking, is try it for 2 weeks and see what happens, see the relief in your daughters bodies...

And YOU limit contact with him too...no more phone conversations with him. Plan B!!

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