Many of you know my story. I am know wondering what I can do, if anything, from my end to save and rebuild this M. WW has admitted that once I discovered her 6 month A, she put no effort into reconciliation because she didn't want to save our M. So I am trying to save this M solo.

WW, now STBXW, served me with papers last Friday. We have a hearing the beginning of March to determine temporary custody, temporary possession of the house, etc. My lawyer has counterfiled under adultery (we live in a state that has at-fault laws). I don't know if this was the right way to save the M ( rephrased: don't know what kind of blow this will strike to any possible effort) but took the advice of my lawyer and have to look at this M as being over. I need to protect myself and our DS.

That's a little background as to where we stand now, legally. We are still residing in the same home. We are not fighting. We do not discuss the legal actions. Talk mainly centers around care for DS and our interaction with him. Other than that there is no talk of anything else, small talk, what is going on in our daily activities, nothing. The OM has dropped her, has said to 3rd parties that my STBXW was going to get him killed (his words) because she kept calling him and he doesn't want anything to do with her anymore. How much of this I believe, at this point, I don't know, anything is possible. I do know when the subject of OM came up prior to her filing, STBXW would get very somber. I think she is dealing with withdrawal. The hopelessness and guilt from that, well, filing for D could seem like a good way out to someone in that sitch. My biggest complaint of her, one of them, my biggest disappointment, she didn't consider working on our M as an option to bring her happiness.

So, what I am dealing with is a WS who wants out and myself unsure if I even want her back. My motivation, my DS, who I do not want to see growing up without his mother and father together. I still have feelings for STBXW. I still would like to live a happy life with her. A M the way M should be. I still believe that we can love each other and be happy. I have read about so many M that have been brought from the brink and renewed that I know this is possible. I just do not know what kind of plan to develop to allow this to happen. I am currently reading Divorce Remedy to educate myself on walkaway wives and maybe there is something in there that can work for me. How does MB apply in this sitch? MB seems to be about ending the A, and guarantees a loving M if BOTH SP make the commitment. That is not the case here.

The first step would need to be for STBXW to want to recommit. I cannot convince her of that, it will only drive a bigger wedge. So, I am left with working on myself to attract her back. How do I do that? Act as if I am done and begin the process of moving on? Better myself. That seems a given. I have actually read some divorce stopping literature that says I should go out on dates with other women (not sleep with them, just date them). I am very leery of this for a couple of reasons. First, it seems manipulative and using to the other person. Second, I am in the middle of a D involving adultery, how would something like that look? Finally, it just sounds like a bad idea. I am not ready for that emotionally. Sounds like bad things waiting to happen. However, I hear and read of so many stories where the WS files for D, etc. Then when the BS moves on and finds someone else, the WS comes back, is upset, causes a commotion, etc. So this confuses me?

So what else can I do? Not talk to STBXW at all. Try to develop some communication? Loving acts of service and kindness. Doesn't that seem odd, and needy. She serves me and I still want talk with her, do things for her. Anything intimate is out of the question.

We are stuck in the same house, so no chance of a plan B sitch (although seems to late for that, she decided on plan D). I was advised by my lawyer not to leave unless ordered. Besides, there is no way I am leaving DS, I want to spend as much time with him as I can.

Has anyone else been in a sitch like this? What did you do? Did you save your M?

Hi Bear04,

Haven't spoken to you before and I'm not an expert, but I've been following your story.

After reading your post on the Divorcing board it seems to me that you are hoping to save the marriage on one hand while protecting yourself and DS as much as possible in case it doesn't work out. This presents a conflict of interests in a way. If you decide to work on saving the marriage and give in to your WW's idea's that you should see DS every other weekend, you might end up losing regular access to DS and still not saving the marriage. On the other hand, if you go for full custody and have a bloody court battle, you will probably damage your marriage irrepairably. This is indeed a tough choice, however, I think it has already been made for you when your WW decided to file. As you acknowledge, at this moment your DS is the most important aspect of your life and you have to protect him.

Let me put it this way, because you live in a at-fault state you have superior fire-power in this battle. However, your adversary in this battle who only has a sling-shot, is calling your bluff and taking you to war. A sling shot, although a weak weapon, can still kill you if you do not defend yourself against it. Therefore you have to defend yourself against it and bring out your superior weaponry. You cannot rely on your adversary's compassion at this moment, and you cannot allow emotions to criple you.

IMHO, try to explain to WW that you have not chosen this battle, and had it been upto you such a battle would never occur, however, now that she has instigated it and chosen her path, you must protect what is imperative to you. Once you have won the battle, you can decide whether or not you would like to show compassion by compromising with her. If one day she wakes up, you will still be in a position to take her back and live a happy family life, however if she doesn't, she wouldn't have takebn the most important aspect of your life away.

I guess what I am trying to say is both of you have very different objectives and views of each other at the moment, and you cannot rely on what she is feeling, thinking, or capable of. Protect yourself, while explaining to her that you never imagined or wanted to be put in such a position.

This is what I would do, its just advice not necessarily the correct path. Good luck Bro. I will be thinking of you.

Bear,

Here is my take; you have made it clear where you stand. She understands that you would like to remain married to her and to work this out. She, on the other hand has decided that she wants to live a separate life. In order for your marriage to survive she will have to change her mind. There is little that you can do at this point to make that happen. I still don't believe that she is entirely sure of the path that she has chosen but she presses on, hoping that this is the correct way to go. Let her go that way and pray that she will turn back towards the family.

Continue to be kind and courteous. Focus on trying to make home life pleasant and even fun if possible. Take pleasure in your family. Appreciate the time that you have left together.

bear...
sorry for all of this....

I think your wife is taking the easiest route she can....
she is running from all that she has created...
problem is that you and all the others know that addage "where ever you go there you are applies to her"

The fact that your wife's OM has taken such drastic excommunication from your wife and left her realing to her core....

is a huge huge issue...

her self worth must be so far under that the ability to believe in her own choices, judgement, and decisions must be devastating to her...

the irony is ofcourse is that YOU as the BS feel exactly like she does....

she though is the dumper and dumpee...
she probably sees no way out of this...

she is unlovable by the OM
she is unlovable by you for she KNOWS exactly the pain she has caused you....

Have you told her you don't want a divorce
and
Have you told her that you DON'T want to be married to her either

what would happen if you were tell her ...

that you know she is hurting deeply
that you know that she thinks there is no way out of her pain but to deny and run
that you believe in her enough to believe that she can heal and work through this without running.....

ARK

Thanks for your replies. You all seem to know too well how to handle this and what is occuring. It's too bad any of us needs this knowledge.

Cat-I do have to protect myself. I do not want this fight. I am scared at the prospect I will just be given visitation. I just keep saying to myself, if roles were reversed and I would ahve been the WS, and done all these things, I would take my EOW and thank my lucky stars. But that is not the case. I am afraid of the courts mother-child bias that is not supposed to exist, but we all know better.

Legato-you are right as well. I have to let her travel that road and see how she likes it. Maybe she won't and will turn back.

ark-as usual right on point. Ironic the intense D talk started a week after OM rejected WW and told her to get lost. I am confused by this statement though:

Have you told her you don't want a divorce
and
Have you told her that you DON'T want to be married to her either

What do you mean by that? Am I asking for WW/SSTBXW to leave and I want a M w/W?

Anyways, I am really struggling with how to act. I guess I am just going to foster a good home environment. Try to make our last days memorable. Also, reiterate to STBXW that I did not choose this battle but I will fight it to protect myself and my R with DS. That we could consider other options, like a renewed M and what ark said.

The last time we had that convo, her response was,"so you are going to try to take DS away from me, how does that make me want to come back to you. So you're saying that if I want to see my son everyday that I have to stay M to you." I just sat there, like, huh, I said nothing like that. I was talking about working through our problems, a brand new and improved M. She saw it as a prison sentence and,I guess,would risk the chance of a limited R with DS rather than work things out with me.

Any other insight into that?

Have you told her you don't want a divorce
and
Have you told her that you DON'T want to be married to her either

what i am saying is that the way she is right now...

so lost
so confused
so hurt
so much a person that is hurting inside..that all they can do is hurt and push away those that do love them....

that you want HER back...
the real her...
that doesn't lie
that doesn't feel so bad about herself..
that doesnt' hurt people in her life....

the woman that she CAN be
the woman that can love
and be loved....

that's what I mean...

she's at her lowest low....(which will get lower if she goes through with this divorce)

and sees the only way out as running....

but what if she can see you standing there?
believing in her to change
and
fix...

but bear...if she is answering you only with bitterness....
and anger...

then you gotta think...

can you fill that home with love and activity with your son..and keep inviting her towards it and you and him...
can you show her hope on the peripheral....

have you tried writing a letter..
not a begging
sappy
love ME letter...

but a strong hopeful letter...

ARK

Ark- I am afraid to put anything in writing. I would email her at work and tell her I was sorry about some fight we had and that I knew things looked bleak but I still saw some hope, etc. She forwarded it to one of her friends. That was very personal and she sends it to one of her friends? Also, she keeps any correspondence and writes down details of our convos, even writes down stuff that isn't true. Anything where I admit any fault to the state of the M or anything I did wrong.

This is how foggy it gets. She even wrote down that I am reading 5 Love Languages. Like that is some admission of guilt.

I am afraid to talk to her or write her, especially, about anything relationship related.

If I do talk to her, I am going to be very careful with what I say.

I am not rolling over on this D. I am leaving it in the hands of my attorney and just told him do what you need to. But I do not want this fight.

Hi Bear,

It's been a while but I've been staying in touch with your sitch. Well I'm sorry it's come to this I truly am, for a while when your WW stopped going out I thought you guys were going to make it.

However that said I would like to reiterate what others have said in that:

You may not want this fight, you may loathe it and hate it, but it's on you nonetheless. You have to protect yourself and your DS. I know you know that so I won't elaborate. What Ark says speaks to me, in that you can tell your WW those things for you. So that you can say that you have done all that you could have done. If your WW/STBXW snaps out of her terminal velosity and comes back to you that is a big bonus. However this is about you and your "baggage" which hopefully you will have none and protecting your DS.

I won't threadjack but I'll give you a little snapshot of where I'm at. I filed Legal Sep papers on my STBXW to protect me and the kids financially while I was doing plan B. She answered those papers with her own for a Divorce under irreconcilable differences. I'll admit that in my Plan B I didn't really know if I wanted my STBXW back, although deep, deep down I'm sure that I still loved her it's just way down there know what I mean?

Anyway yesterday we had our first court date with the judge where we sat down and setup temporary orders. I too am in a state where adultery is on the books, although from what my lawyer has told me it doesn't really give me much firepower. That sucks!! Anyway the court decided in my favor so I have temp. primary custody and she has the kids for 1-2 overnights per week. So she will be giving my childsupport at least temporarily.

So enough about me. My 2 cents is to let your WW choose the way that she wants to go, you can't control her anyway and won't be able to bring her back. So continue to work on yourself and STAY with your DS. Here is what you need for your court date. You have to state that your WW was going out X amount of times per month where you were out (hopefully this is true) only 1-2 nights where you didn't put your DS to bed. Also I hope that you have a work schedule that help you, mine does. This limited testimony that I gave proved to the judge who had been taking care of our kids.

I'm praying for you bud...
Native

Native, adultery is not SUPPOSED to be a considering factor when determining custody (i.e. the cause of the breakup of the M should not determine custody), however, adultery shows a lack of judgement, putting yourself before your kids, and it takes time out of your life to be involved in an A, time that your STBXW selfishly used for her own needs rather than the needs of the children. That is what my lawyer is using.

My STBXW filed under irreconcilable differences with the underlying charge being severe mental cruelty. Kind of hard to show mental cruelty when she was the one inflicting the mental cruelty.

I am the defendant, I need to answer these charges. I also have the "better" work schedule, although now that we've reached this point, STBXW has now found the time to be home by 6, to pick up DS from daycare a couple times a week, to not go out as much, basically she has turned into the mother she always should have been. Too little, too late? Like my lawyer said, how long will she keep that up. Within 6 months after the D she'll be back to her old ways because she won't be happy staying home all the time.

I would discuss this with your lawyer. The fact that you have temp custody bodes well for you. It will be an uphill battle for her then.

Good luck, but I wish we both could have our W's back. I am resigned to the fact that it is not going to happen. Even if it did, it is out of my control, not my decision, it is hers. All I can do is continue to treat her respectfully, no LB's, etc. Kinda easy when you have to be on your best behavior because anything you say could be used against you. Really, it has broken down almost all communication since I fear even opening my mouth. Our house is peaceful now though because of it, not like it wasn't since we really didn't fight that much.

I do feel like a great weight has been lifted off of me because I can now see what the future may hold, before it was uncertain and that created great anxiety. Now that anxiety has been replaced by sadness. The uncertainty now is concerning DS, which is madenning, yet also out of my hands. I can only continue being the father I always have been.

I hope we both get what we feel is just out of our D proceedings, maybe then our STBXW's will peak out of their fog and see what their selfishness has led to. I say selfish because reconciliation was an option for WW, I was willing, she wasn't. She took what is perceived to be the easy road out, but we both know that road may look to be easier in the beginning but not in the long run. If as much energy was expended in breaking up a M as working to build one, then we would all be much happier.

How do you better yourself?

You have been very pragmatic about the D and the war that surrounds that. You have strategized, you have contested, you have confronted, you have battened down, you have protected yourself.

Have you worked on the M though? Have you made changes in yourself? Are you proud of who you are? Are you the person you would like to be? Only YOU can answer these questions, and if you can break them down to practical behavior changes, GREAT! But first you have to do some soul searching to find out what changes you want to make FOR YOU and for your M!

What was it that attracted your WW to you? What is it that she says she's been missing all these years? And why have you been afraid to give her that?

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

Still- She said I was nice. That is all she came up with. That is why she fell in love with me, because I was nice. Heck, I was nice the whole time this a flourished. I was nice during her two other ONS. I was nice during my plan A.

I have looked at myself. I have worked on my shortcomings, my biggest, DJ's. I am too opinionated, according to STBXW. I agree with that assessment. So I am working on it. According to everyone else arouns us I haven't changed a bit. They all say she has.

bear..
She even wrote down that I am reading 5 Love Languages. Like that is some admission of guilt.

I'm just gonna ramble this one out....

FIRST....
Part of me just wants to laugh at the fact that she writes down EVERYTHING you read and or write...
I am a fool for temptation...and can barely resist sending you home with such books with titles....wrapped under your arm....

THE IDIOTS GUIDE TO BEING MARRIED TO AN IDIOT

that one should give her hours of pondering does that make YOU the idiot or HER the idiot if YOU'RE the one reading it...

certainly you need a good book with the words ALIENS ATTACK in it .....

really get her juices going...
HOW TO BUILD A SMALL NUCLEAR REACTOR IN YOUR BASEMENT ON THE WEEKEND AND UNDER 40.00$ WITH ONLY THINGS ALREADY FOUND IN YOUR KITCHEN....

NOW...
no where or on any level do I suggest you change anything that you need to do to align yourself in the best position for custody/visitation/access to children...that is always always seperate from saving the relationship.....
so do not misunderstand that....

BUT
the thing is.....your wife's vitriol...her inability to do anything but turn her self hate outwards....will not and does not serve her well....and I do believe she is lost...and I do believe that you can influence her self esteem that is soooo down and lost to her...she can't feel anything........................

so my friend in the name of compassion which you are still rawly connected too...as with all those other emotions you can still feel....be grateful you can feel anything....
and lets see what positive things you can do to with these feelings....

here's the way I see your wife envisioning how things are going to go...

familiarity breeds a comfort level...the more she can make you the villian
the more she can keep the focus on this cold unemotional environment...the more it feeds in to her belief that divorce is the answer....
the more she can focus on the external how bad it is at home...stuff....and all that external focus keeps her from having to view that fact that SHE caused this destruction and has been DUMPED like garbage......

so you dear bear...need to morph in to a big teddy bear in the home....
you need to get her attention by shouting your love of life and things that are good...with your whispers....

from this moment forward you reject the doom and gloom that she is happy to have settle over the house.....and show her that even inspite of her...love and joy can about around her and with her....

so you do little litttle little things...

she expects you two to be gloomy and sullen in the kitchen...when in there together...so give her the opposite....be whistle (I made that word up) but I mean whistle a happy tune...

put the radio on....
tell her funny stories...even when she stares back at you with the dead eyes of a shark...

just smile and wink at her....

come home singing Dr. Hooks lovely little ditty..
when you're in love with a beautiful woman...
it's a catchy tune...surely you know it...

it will make her wonder who the 'beautiful woman is that you sing and hum about>>>>>when ofcourse it is her...but she doesn't need to know that.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

bring home a dessert she loves....

do not get sucked in to the environment of gloom that she seeks to keep her justification juices running...

when questioned about what you are doing to the children about custody..

answer her with things...

I am doing what you have taught me to do ..protecting the child from pain and hurt...
I am shielding him from that which scares him...exactly as you would expect me to do...for surely parents do not visit pain upon their children...the world is there for that....

and walk away......

does this make sense...or should I ramble some more..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ARK

Great post, ark! I love it. It will completely blow her mind.

Really, Bear, I know all of this hurts but if you can step back from it and have fun with it just for the sheer joy of seeing the bewildered look on her face...

OK I'm in. The way I figure, she already wants a D. So, being upbeat and happy and nice and all things good can't exactly hurt the sitch. By nature I am a nice guy, it is hard for me to be mean and hold a grudge.

Besides, this sounds like a good way to mess with her mind. If she goes through with the D, the guilt of screwing over such a great guy will surely eat her alive, right? The best revenge is kindness.

WHy are we getting a D? Why does STBXW cheat? I have the answer today. STBXW does not like herself. She is the nicest sweetest person to everyone she meets. She thinks of herslf as a good person. SHe directs her anger towards me. I am the brunt of her anger. It's all my fault. I am the one that screwed up her life, etc.

Got to go. I'll explain later.

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: bad d good d ]</small>

I am hanging in there. I am not as depressed as I thought I would be. I can't tell, does that mean I just don't love her that much, or have I just been put through the ringer. I'm thinking the ringer.

I am also still in a bit of denial, I think. Fire away with your questions. The only thing happening now is that her father (FIL) wants to talk to BOTH of us this weekend and he says he is going to be speaking for DS.

Don't know what that means.

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: bad d good d ]</small>

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: bad d good d ]</small>

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Bear04. ]</small>