Mel- WW is going to a concert with a female friend and staying overnight. This trip was planned a couple months back. I guess that is why I have not made her stay home or made an issue of it. And I can't get tickets at this point either. I will know if she is doing something inappropriate too. I just need to know if she is seeing him or not. If she doesn't see him this weekend that will be a god sign. If she does see him, I have a lot of work to do....

My IC appointment is this morning.

Opt.

Options,

You are very quite…are you okay??? How did your appointment with Dr Harley go? How are things at home? Please update us…

Blessings,
Suzet

Hi Suzet. Thanks for your concern. I am doing ok. I have been depressed lately. I just don't see how things can get better. I just don't see much of an effort on WW's part. She doesn't want to spend any or little time with me and the kids. She was away all weekend w/ her GF. It hurts so much because our 4 year old said the other day "why does mommy go out most all of the time". It broke my heart that he knows it. I asked her yesterday to go out next weekend on a date and she said she wants to go out with her friends instead. So, how can it get better if we don't spend anytime together?

I had my appointment w/ SH and it went very good. I bought His Needs/Her Needs on Saturday and read it already. I gave it to WW to read but I don't think she will. She pretty much gave it back. I also asked her to speak to SH on her own and she pretty much said all but no. Maybe she is just in the down cycle of the roller coaster and she will come out of it again soon. I am ready for an up ride......

Opt.

options,

This is what is so hard about Plan A. As we discussed before, it is very hard to remain upbeat when WW seems to be trying to shoot you down all the time but just keep in mind that she has her mission, to discourage you, and you have yours, to not be discouraged. There will be times when she "peeks" through fog and gives you a little encouragement but that will be rare.

I only know of two ways to deal with this aspect of Plan A and I recommend both of them. One, is anti-depressants, but I would stay away from Paxil; I've heard that Welbutrin is very good. ADs will help you detach a bit and "smooth" out the rollercoaster. Your emotions are like raw meat right now and every slight from her cuts deep. ADs will take some of the edge off of the pain without making you into a zombie. Don't use alcohol for this purpose as it will loosen your tongue and you need complete control of what you say right now!

The second way is to take all of this to God and ask Him for help. When you are hurting ask Him for comfort; when you need strength or courage, ask Him and He will provide.

Thanks Legato. I am hesitant about taking AD's. I just don't like taking meds. I do realize that would probably help though. Maybe I will think about it. I do like your second way much better and have been relying on God all the time. That is how I have gotten to where I am now. He is the one that keeps me going. Plan Aing is tough and I just need to keep reminding myself that is where I am at. I think I tend to loose focus with all the negativity I have seen lately. Full speed ahead though!!

Opt.

Yes, I am the same way. I tried Zoloft when I just couldn't handle what was going on but it made feel so strange that I discontinued it after a week. My wife was taking Welbutrin and it made her feel and act normal. I can testify as to its effectiveness in her case.

I would keep it in the back of my mind. If you end up going to Plan B, that can really knock you down as you will be going into withdrawal from no contact with your wife. You might want to plan on starting meds two weeks prior to Plan B. Again, hopefully Plan B won't be necessary but it seems on this board that most BHs end up going to it.

I have been thinking about Plan B. I am not ready to implement it yet but I wanted to make sure I understand it. If I were to get to Plan B, I don't feel that I should be the one to move out of the house to have NC with WW. I think WW should move out and me and the kids stay at home. After all, I was not the one having the A. What has been your experience with situations similar to mine? Can we both stay at the same house and have NC as in Plan B? That doesn't seem possible. How would I tell WW to move out so I could start Plan B? These are just some questions going through my head.

Opt.

Opt, in Plan B the WS should be the one to move ideally. However, they often do not agree to do that and you can't throw her out. Then it comes down to filing for separation and working out a legal separation. Hopefully, it will not come to that. But your initial premise is right, you and the children should not be uprooted to accommodate her affair. Unfortunately, what is fair is not always possible.

What did Harley say about exposure at her job? Did you bring that up to him? Did her mother have a discussion with her yet?

Mel- SH said he is not in favor and does not recommend the "hammer head approach to exposure" which he said exposing to work would be. He told me to concentrate all my efforts on positive strategies ie. reading His Needs/Her Needs, asking her to read it, asking her for counseling session with him, helping out at the house and spending lots of time with the kids. He said not to waste any energy on following her and and spying on her. He reminded me of how slow I have to be taking it with W and that it will seem so very elementary to me but not to run when she is just starting to walk. If I can't get her to commit to a session with SH soon, I am to have another one with him.

The MIL has not said anything to W yet. She is still hesitant to say anything and waiting for the right time. I know the GF has not said anything yet either. However, I do know that W did not see OM over the weekend when she was out.

Thanks for the info on Plan B. I know that will be hard if or when it comes time because we (me and kids) WILL NOT be the ones to move out.

Opt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>SH said he is not in favor and does not recommend the "hammer head approach to exposure" which he said exposing to work would be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Options, I had a feeling that Dr Harley would say something like this about exposure at work on this stage and this is also the reason why I (and I think others like legato) was also hesitant about exposure at work in the first place… Maybe if there isn’t progress and your W still continue with her A in spite of all your efforts (as instructed by Dr Harley), you and Dr Harley can re-consider this (exposure at work) IF it become necessary, but so far things seems positive regarding NC with OM.

Anyway, I hope your W will commit to a joint session soon…

How are you doing today?

Suzet

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

I am doing ok. Just trying to follow Plan A. W had not talked to me in the last couple of days. Not sure what is going on. I have just been giving her the space she needs. Hopefully soon she will want to talk. It is pretty tense around the house now. I believe she has to come to a breaking point too or peak out of the fog again. Hopefully sooner than later.

opt.

Opt, I am sorry this is dragging on for you, I know it is painful. I think it is important for your MIL to have a talk with her and let her know that she knows. Otherwise, you reap NO benefits of exposure at all.

When you say that you are giving her space, what does that mean? Is she going out to get "space?" Is she still in contact with the OM?

No, she is not going out like she was. She was out this past weekend and she was not with OM. I have been giving her space just at the house. She has been depressed and not wanting to talk. She likes being alone. I have told her I am here for her when she is ready to talk but she doesn't want to. I just asked her once to read His Needs Her Needs and left it at that. She doesn't want to. I am not pressuring though. I left it out just in case she changes her mind.

I agree MIL needs to talk to W about it. It is MIL's B-Day this weekend so I am not going to ask her to do anything about it until after her B-day passes.

opt.

Opt, is there any special reason why she is not saying anything to her daughter? The purpose of exposure is make her uncomfortable in the affair and the sooner that happens, the better. I feel like everyone is walking around on eggshells here, which is only enabling her affair. I don't understand why, because it is not helpful to the situation. Plan A does not stand for "appeasement" at all costs.

Do you think they have ended the affair? Would that explain her moping around? Perhaps she is in withdrawal?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think they have ended the affair? Would that explain her moping around? Perhaps she is in withdrawal?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, this is what I am thinking. I have been watching W closely and cannot find any evidence that she is still seeing OM. I will get our phone log here in a few days and that will tell me more. I do think she is in withdrawl now. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does make sense. I wonder what happened? Can you get the phone log online?

I have no idea what happened or what is happening... Again, I am hoping it is withdrawl but time will tell. I am hesitant to do anymore with exposure until I see that she is still having contact with OM beyond strickly business at work.

About 1 week ago I got the cell phone invoice and there wasn't anything on there. I can't get our land line online except once a month when the phone company issue the bill. They don't do a real time up to date on the calls. I will get the next one in about a week or so.

Again, I don't know what happened. I think she is just overwhelmed with guilt now. She is definitely depressed now. Lets just pray that it is from withdrawl of NC with OM.

Opt.

options, my great concern here is that everyone is walking around pretending like nothing has happened. That is about the worst thing that can happen because it aides her foggy mind and makes it easy for her to go back to him. [if the affair has, in fact, ended] If there are absolutely no consequences then there is no impediment to a resumption. [I am referring to your MIL speaking to her about this]

Is there a reason that your MIL would not openly talk about this to her?

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I think MIL just has a fear of the shake up it will cause.

I understand your concern about everybody walking around and pretending like nothing has happened. What I have been thinking is that next piece of evidence I find that she is still having contact with OM then I will pressure MIL to talk to her. Until then, I really think it has ended. (but I am prepared if it has not ended) Mel, I know you probably don't agree with that. Right?

Opt.

Here's the thing. The A, which presumably she still does not acknowledge as such, may be winding down but they still work together. She has not committed to NC therefore the addiction continues. When you get the phone log you may find contact - you may find no contact, but either way it's not conclusive. Just assume that there is still contact until commitment to NC. Don't waste energy trying to figure out what is going on - what is going on is contact and addiction.

She is struggling. She can't figure this out and she never will. That's why she is distant, quiet, preoccupied. It's probably hard for you to hear this but you are the last thing on her mind right now. She's trying to understand how she got where she is, what she should do about it, how OM feels about her, should she get her own place and "find herself", what if this, what if that and on and on. It never ends - it drives her crazy but she can't seem to think about anything else. She is out of control and she knows it.

Believe me, I know how driven you are to know what is going on - you're looking for improvement - any little sign because that gives you encouragement to continue Plan A. You've seen her peek through the fog and you will see it again.

It might help if you personify and even "demonize" the addiction. When she peeks through the fog, the addiction, which is trying to protect itself, creates more fog and even punishes her for going behind his (the addiction's) back. I know this sound a little crazy but I don't believe that it's far from the truth.

My advice is to try and find motivation and encouragement elsewhere - try and find inner strength. The pain that you feel can be transformed into strength. Use the pain - use the anger - make them work for you.

And above all, ask God for encouragement and ask Him to guide you.

Ken