</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by options:
<strong> Thanks Legato! BUT, tonight I told her I had her SH appointment confirmed for Wednesday and she said "How much is this? I am only doing this once! That is crazy. I will do it one time only." The she walked away. I don't know if she is in depression now or what but she is rude,cold,distant,angry/mean all at me. And, she is very short/no patience with the kids.

Opt. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is trying to bait you into a fight so she won't have to go through with it. Just don't allow her to do that. Tell her you appreciate her participation in working on your marriage. THEN SMILE.

WW did not talk to me at all last night or this morning except once about the kids. She still seems to be depressed or something.

Here is an interesting note. We are registering our youngest for Kindergarten today and I am taking him to the school. This is the same building that OM is at. I am really hoping to run into OM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WW tried hard to get me NOT to go. She said “you really don’t have to take time off work to go. I can take care of registering him.” She was being so nice but I could see through it. I said thanks for the offer but I really want to be part of it. I wouldn’t miss it for anything. He only registers for Kindergarten once. It will be interesting. I am going to ask for a tour of the school. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Opt.

What grade does the OM teach? Good job on sticking to your guns!

Are you waiting to contact the OM until after her meeting with SH?

Well, registration is over and I didn't run into OM. WW was nervous though. Bouncing constantly.

OM teaches 6th grade.

I am waiting until after her appointment w/ SH before I do contact OM. I wanted to hear his plan first. Although, SH is meeting with WW alone on Wednesday. I hope I get some feedback from the session.

I never did get an email response back from OM either. I know now that was the wrong way to try and contact him and I won't email again.

Opt.

Update:

Wow!! What a night!! WW broke down last night with guilt. She opened up to me and said she was sorry. She said she was very very sorry. We hugged and held each other very intense for quite some time. I could truly feel her sorrow. She said she is trying but it is just so hard. She told me she loved me. I haven't heard that for over 3 months from her and I haven't had a genuine hug from her in over 3 months too. We woke up this morning in each others arms and the whole atmosphere in the house was warm and loving.

I know there is still a lot of work to do but for now I am on a high. She still has her appointment with SH today. She even joked to me about it this morning.

Opt.

Options, this is VERY good news! I’m happy for both you and your W! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

Yay! Life is good.

Options, that is fabulous news! How did the session with SH go today?

Thanks Mel, Suzet, and Legato!

The high wore off some yesterday. WW is still nice but the physical closeness has worn off. I did expect it to. What do you all think of it? Is it normal to be so high one moment and then to loose it or some of it?

I am unsure what to think of the SH appointment. WW didn't have a lot to say about it. She did say that she didn't get any big answer that she was looking for. WW said SH recommendation was to just give me a chance. She also said he went over his MB principles. She said she agreed with some and not with others.

Opt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>The high wore off some yesterday. WW is still nice but the physical closeness has worn off. I did expect it to. What do you all think of it? Is it normal to be so high one moment and then to loose it or some of it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Options, yes, your W's behavior is normal...very normal. Remember, this is like a roller coaster ride for both the BS and WS and it is perfectly normal for the FWS to experience 'ups' and 'downs' during this period of withdrawal and early recovery. During early withdrawal the FWS is still in a fog. The fog can linger for a long time and even return during the withdrawal process. Therefore, don't be too worried about your W's unpredictable behavior, but still, keep your eyes open because it's still possible for your W to slip and contact the OM. Be on guard.

Blessings,
Suzet

Thanks Suzet for the reply.

Where would you say we are at according to my wife's behavior? Early withdrawl, Late withdrawl, or Early Recovery? I know that is probably hard to answer but I am very curious if it is possible to know. I am wondering if she is still in fog. Or maybe she is temporarily out of the fog. I haven't heard any fog babble lately. She is talking to me more over the last 3 days.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Therefore, don't be too worried about your W's unpredictable behavior, but still, keep your eyes open because it's still possible for your W to slip and contact the OM. Be on guard.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am aware of this and am keeping my eyes open. I do worry about contact very much. I was hoping SH would have talked to her about NC with OM but according to her he didn't. WW says she doesn't want to have another session with SH because she didn't get anything out of it. Maybe she will change her mind though. Maybe that is fog babble...

Opt.

Opt, I would put a call into Steve and ask for a debriefing. He almost always debriefs the BS.

Hi Mel, I will do that. Thank you!

Opt.

I left message for SH. He is out until the March 21st. That is my luck... Hopefully, he will call me back before then.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Where would you say we are at according to my wife's behavior? Early withdrawl, Late withdrawl, or Early Recovery? I know that is probably hard to answer but I am very curious if it is possible to know. I am wondering if she is still in fog. Or maybe she is temporarily out of the fog. I haven't heard any fog babble lately. She is talking to me more over the last 3 days.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>Options,

As soon as a WS stops contact with the OP, they will start experiencing withdrawal symptoms from the OP. Usually withdrawal is more intense and traumatic at the beginning on NC, but as times goes by, the withdrawal symptoms will become less and less intense. Please note that some FWS’s experience minor withdrawal or no withdrawal at all. This is a very individual thing and differs from person to person. Also, recovery begins as soon as contact with the OP ends. Therefore, if your W really stopped contact with OM, I would say she is in early recovery and the beginning of withdrawal. The fog and withdrawal goes hand in had and as I’ve said earlier, it’s possible for the fog to slip back from time to time during withdrawal. During withdrawal, the FWS struggle between feelings of guilt & shame about the A and at the same time they grief the loss of the OP. A FWS in withdrawal have to cope with emotions on both sides of the coin: On the one side they grief the loss of the OP and on the other side they have to focus on the BS and M and take responsibility for the pain and damage they have caused the M and BS. This is not always easy and this is why I’ve said earlier that this is a roller coaster ride for the FWS as well. Throw feelings of low self-esteem, shame and guilt to the mix and then you have a situation that is sometimes extremely difficult for the FWS to handle and cope with. They can’t blame anyone but themselves for their wrong choices and actions…This is why the use of Anti-D’s and the help & support of a IC is often recommended. I've put the link to my withdrawal thread earlier on this thread. It will help if you can read through it again.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 08:34 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Thanks for the post Suzet.

I think maybe she has ended contact and is going through withdrawl/early recovery. I can’t find any evidence that she is still having contact anyway. She still likes to go out with her GF and is going out shopping with her on Friday. I am 99.9% sure it is just with GF and will watch to find out though. W tells me she likes to get out and away from everything. Is that normal too? Is that helpful or hurtful? Should I let her go or tell her it is not a good idea at this point in our marriage? Maybe it clears her mind and is good. I don’t know…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> During withdrawal, the FWS struggle between feelings of guilt & shame about the A and at the same time they grief the loss of the OP. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know she is feeling guilt. There have been 2 separate occasions that she has expressed that to me. She was truly hurting. I think she has committed to making our M recover but she has not came out and told me that. Although, she has said she is trying but it is just so hard.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Throw feelings of low self-esteem, shame and guilt to the mix and then you have a situation that is sometimes extremely difficult for the FWS to handle and cope with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she is definitely feeling all these emotions. I have a hard time dealing with her when she goes negative on me but knowing how hard it must be for her will help me deal with it.

Suzet, I have read your thread you posted to me earlier and it was VERY helpful. Thank you. I know people have posted to me before and I may not have directly responded to them but it is ALWAYS appreciated. I can’t tell everyone here how grateful I am they are sticking with me, supporting me, and advising me. Even though I probably not the easiest to advise. But I try. We BS’s have a lot of stuff going through our heads too as I know you all our aware of. You all MB vets are a blessing to us though.

So, I guess I just continue Plan A. From what all of you have told me here, things are moving in a positive direction.


Mel, I haven’t contacted OM yet. I would still like to here from SH first. Make sense?

Opt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> She still likes to go out with her GF and is going out shopping with her on Friday. I am 99.9% sure it is just with GF and will watch to find out though. W tells me she likes to get out and away from everything. Is that normal too? Is that helpful or hurtful? Should I let her go or tell her it is not a good idea at this point in our marriage? Maybe it clears her mind and is good. I don’t know…</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Options, during my own withdrawal and recovery I didn’t have a need to be away from my H and go out with may lady friends all the time. In fact, I never had such a need even prior and after my recovery. I have a few close female friends and I do spend time alone with them sometimes to go shopping, coffee or whatever, but me and my H prefer to do most things together and share our leisure time together. We also enjoy spending time with our couple friends. But…all people and marriages are different and not everyone feels the same about this. Therefore I think your W’s behavior might be normal on this stage and maybe it might be good for her now and then to have some time alone with her friends and clear her head. I also know many woman prefer to shop with their lady friends in stead of their H’s because some men don’t have the patience and/or desire to hang out in shops all the time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So this is something else you can keep it mind. However, if you get the feeling that your W wants to behave like a single woman and spent time away from you most of the time, then it is an indication that something is wrong and then you can't accept it and need to speak to her about this.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I have a hard time dealing with her when she goes negative on me but knowing how hard it must be for her will help me deal with it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Options, another thing you must keep in mind is that for some time, your W will resent you for the fact that she can’t have contact with the OM. While still in withdrawal and the fog, the WS often sees the BS as the “meanie” who prevents them from having contact with the OP and then resents the BS for the feelings of grief and loss... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> I know this is SO unfair towards the BS because the BS (you) is the victim of your spouse infidelity and YOU have reason to feel resentful. However, keep hanging on and if this happens, take your W’s coldness & resentment with a grain of salt. This too will pass. Give it time and patience. I understand it’s difficult for you, but try your best to continue with plan A.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> We BS’s have a lot of stuff going through our heads too as I know you all our aware of.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes options, I’m fully aware of this… You know, I have great admiration and appreciation for the unconditional and agape love from BS’s towards their WS’s in spite of all the pain and hurt the WS’s have caused them… I believe only God can put such love in a person’s heart and I believe one day you (and the other people like you) will receive a special place in heaven for this. Options, you still love your W in spite of everything and that is wonderful... I think you still love your W and won’t give up on her because deep down in you heart you know she’s a good person who’ve made bad decisions and have temporarily lost her way because of this.

Options, please note that I will stop posting for a while (taking a break from work for 2 weeks and today is my last day at work), but I will be back on the 1st of April. Take care of yourself and I hope things will stay positive and keep proceeding between you and your W. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Posted by Suzet:
I have great admiration and appreciation for the unconditional and agape love from BS’s towards their WS’s in spite of all the pain and hurt the WS’s have caused them… I believe only God can put such love in a person’s heart and I believe one day you (and the other people like you) will receive a special place in heaven for this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you! Over the past 2 days, I have had three other people (non MBers) tell me this exact same thing. It gives me peace.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Post by Suzet:
Options, you still love your W in spite of everything and that is wonderful... I think you still love your W and won’t give up on her because deep down in you heart you know she’s a good person who’ve made bad decisions and have temporarily lost her way because of this.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Suzet, You absolutely right on this. I know W is a great person who made a bad decision and didn't protect her weaknesses. I also know that in the past, I was not the person I needed to be. That is the great thing about this. I believe God is using this so we can experience a greater love than ever before as he wants us all to. God could have made our M status quo for the next 50 years but we would not know what true committed love is which is deeper and more powerful than any love. God wants us to experience the greatest love and we did not have that before. I do believe things happen for a reason and, as weird as it sounds, I think we are in a wonderful position right now. Because, no matter what I am a 150% better person and I believe/hope/pray W will come out of this 150% better person too. I know she feels guilt and remorse for her actions. I just pray she is strong enough to maintain NC. I pray asking God to give her the strength she needs all the time.

Last night W was very nice and we talked for about an hour about the kids, our day, etc. We didn't talk in depth about our Relationship. Although, we did scratched the surface on it. We talked about where we thought things went wrong and how we became disconnected over the past few years. We talked briefly on what we need to do differently to get reconnected. We are going out Sat night together. 

Suzet, Thanks for posting again. Have a great 2 weeks off work! I am jealous!!

Opt.

options,

You are definitely on the right track here. If only it could go this well for some of the others who struggle here.

I agree that God corrects us and molds us by giving us challenges. On the other hand, infidelity is completely evil, in my opinion, and therefore can only come from somewhere other than God. Infidelity is a false and worldly solution to a spiritual problem. When marital needs are not being met, instead of turning to God and to our spouses, humans seem to be drawn to a "natural" solution to the problem; find someone else to meet those needs. The bible clearly states that this is incorrect and yet we do it because it "feels" right.

Part of the problem is that many times we don't recognize this "natural solution" as adultery; we maintain that we are "just friends". We get caught in this trap and before we know it it's spinning out of control and we are in bondage.

So the lesson for me has been, whatever problem I am facing in my life, first take it to God. Do not seek my own solution. Do not trust what feels right to me.

Can I get an Amen?

The ushers will now come forth and accept your offering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Legato, Thanks for the post. I agree with you 100 percent.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Posted by Legato:
So the lesson for me has been, whatever problem I am facing in my life, first take it to God. Do not seek my own solution. Do not trust what feels right to me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, Amen!! For me this whole valley in my life has brought me closer than ever to God. I don't know where I would be now if it were not for God's strength and love through this all. God has given me the ability to love that I didn't know I had. Early in this, I turned my life over to God asking him to guide me and to control my words and actions. I couldn't have controlled myself and done an effective plan A otherwise.

Update: Things are good!!! W and I are moving in the right direction. W gave me a card Saturday and wrote a note inside it saying “I am working this out for us. I Love You. I appreciate everything you do." W met with OM on Friday and told him it was over and that she was committed to our M. She said he didn't take to very good. (Dah) I really appreciated that she was honest with me and told me. She has been very loving all weekend. It was the best weekend we had in many many months. We realize each of us will have our good days and bad days emotionally but we have commitment now to get through those. W went a few places over the weekend and accounted for all her time and called me via cell phone several times while she was away. In other words she is showing effort too (something I haven't seen before). I know we still have a long road ahead of us for recovery.

I wanted to thank everybody again who has posted to me and gave me advice/support. Without it I wouldn't be where I am today. Especially Mel. It seems like you have been there immediately when I needed to hear a reply and dedicated yourself to helping me. You are awesome!

Legato, Suzet, Pep, Cwmac, Noodle, Bob Pure, Trix- Thanks for everything. You will probably never realize how grateful I am for all of you.

God Bless, Opt.