Here I am again, to ramble. Still in the game.

I love my wife. I am tormented by the knowledge of things I have done to her. This is usually the biggest thing that is killing me. Selfish you say? Pfft, I say to you. It is the selfish man that does not feel remorse for his failures and wrongs against others. I am consumed by remorse sometimes. I pray froz will forgive me. Everyday.

I did not force her into marriage. Possibly it has been interpreted this way and I am here to tell you otherwise. It is possible that she and I were not at all ready to get married, in theory, because of the state of our relationship. However, two adults walked down the aisle and made promises before God that we would be faithful, true and never forsake one another. I will remain steadfast in my promise. First and foremost I love her. She is the woman for me. As it was so kindly put, she is "good enough" for me. Way more than, really.

I am not an abusive man. I do not make it a habit to be abusive and I am not known for my beating of women. That said, these times are extremely emotional(an odd thing for a logical, intellectual, pedagogical, blah-blahgical) and I lost my bearing in a heated exchange. This is not a character flaw and no one was permanantly hurt. I have this under control and it will not happen again.

I understand that I have hurt my wife. I will say taht I don't understand how much, but that is to say I am not walking in her shoes. I will extend, however, that I would liken my destruction of our relationship to Judas and Jesus. I played that I was on her side. Then I betrayed her. And much like Judas, I gravely regret the outcome. Don't get hung up on the reference to something about the Lord. Just see the anology and move on.

We are both weakened by my actions and that is new territory for us. I am not usually the perp on this kind of thing. She gave all she had to me and I punched her in the face(not literally, stupid) We have continued to destroy each other a little since DDay, with her saying what I might describe as the worst statements I have ever heard, and with me still sugarcoating crap and lying. That has to stop. I have grown quite a bit since DDay and learned a bit about telling the truth and dealing with confrontation.
She has made the champion effort to deal with these issues and still desire a relationship with me. Anyway shortly after DDay she of course had thousands of questions. Some I answered honestly(cuase I was busted) and some I still sugarcoated or lied about. Why? It did not feel safe to tell her all. She would leave me, or so I thought then. Fact is she should know anything about me she wants, and she asked questions recently that I told the truth on, forgot I had really ever been asked it before(a while back, actually), and then looked like I lied recently. I did not lie recently. I lied back then.. and have grown a bit since then.

blah blah

I was the fat kid in grade school. A friend of Froz was the fat kid. Myself and this person are not obese now(army guy, remember...), but both of us still "think" we are sometimes. Look in the mirror, weigh all the time and so on. I was at a point, I think where anyone telling me something "nice" about my looks or my body was a drug. I see this issue, or possiblity of it now, and will be mindful of it from now on. Maybe a big part of my Why.

I repent and turn away from my sin. It is important for me to say that. I will not BE an adulterous man. I behaved incorrectly, this is true. It is not a character flaw. I am salvageable.

ramble ramble. k, I'm done.

OH!. I was uncomfortable taking her calls at work because I could not answer questions she had. I have a new job now. It is a new beginning for me. It was day 2(day 1 in the office) and I am not going to make my life public there. I have my reasons if you don;'t agree with this. I will however call froz, no problem. I love her and have nothing to hide. No second life. nothing. She is my life now. that is that. And that, I am happy with.

done

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: patriot92 ]</small>

Hey P .... I hope you are doing well...

that said

To quote Robert Blake's Baretta:

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time"...

Tell enough lies and you have essentially torn your own credibility to shreds.

This is a part of the consequences that follows your previous poor choices. You are currently not believable just on your word alone.

Do you understand that?

This means that you cannot expect to be trusted at this time. What you "say" may, or may not, be 100% accepted as accurate ... without verification

Do you understand and accept that?

This is not a life sentence of suspicion you are signing up for. There will be a turning of the tide ... slowly.

However, the burden of proof is on you .... no one else.

Do you accept that it is your responsibility to prove yourself a good risk as a spouse?

If you do ... what is your PLAN to carry this out?

Pep

Hi patriot.

I appreciate your coming here. It speaks highly of your character.

I would like to talk to you a bit, but It will be after midnight before I can get back here.

In the mean time, why don't you change your subject line and invite interested former wayward spouses out for some conversation with you. They can understand were you are, good and bad, and can give you pointers to help you deal with your situation.

Betrayed spouses, please keep harsh comments to yourself. Patriot has a lot to work through here.

More later.
Gimble

Yes, I do understand that what I say is not going to be trustworthy. Yes I get that I destroyed her trust in me.

She stated that she wants to work though this.
I stated I wanted to work through this.

A plan is moot unless she extends me a little trust to play with, if you will. I hope that point makes sense.

My plan?

Well, My idea is to continue to explore things about me, her and us with froz, like we have done. We talked today for a while. Life still goes on, so sometimes it feels like we are not working on anything. But often what happens is we set a time to start reading MB material(she printed tons of it... I made a book) and then get to talking. Talking goes a while, and then it is bedtime. No one's failing. Just ran out of time for that day.

Anyway, she has beed making it safer for me to deal with female confrontation and truth, so I think I have been making progress. I am still working on that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A plan is moot unless she extends me a little trust to play with, if you will. I hope that point makes sense.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's still with you ... that by it's self is her *grace* ... something you did not have to earn. Be grateful for that offer of grace.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, My idea is to continue to explore things about me, her and us with froz, like we have done. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suggest you plan on counseling ... go first by yourself to deconstruct your affair, then schedule joint counseling.

Talking is NOT enough.

You must be transparent. (and humble .... your humility needs work, do you agree?)

Capish?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey Patriot - I second the MC...

If you want to SHOW Frozen that you are commited and are willing to work on your M, then you need to go find a pro-marriage MC and start going immediately. YOU need to take the lead in this...

Right now, Frozen doesn't even know what she can or can't believe in... she doesn't trust anything about you... The only thing she can even begin to believe are your actions, and then those actions have to be consistent over a long period of time... Then, perhaps, she will start trusting you a bit more...

You guys can recover from this, but if you don't step up and take the lead in rebuilding your M... then you might not have a marriage to rebuild.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Hi, patriot.

I was wondering how old you are?

I want to tell you a few things that you need to hear about your situation since it is a bit different than most.

When most people get married, there is a 'honeymoon' period that lasts typically from one to three years.

What the 'honeymoon period' is really all about is your brain being bathed in a lot of 'love' chemicals. That condition serves a very real purpose. It allows newlyweds a lot of leeway and grace for each other while the relationship adjusts to the individual differences of the partners. During this period, little things and some bigger things that would normally irritate either person are glossed over and mostly ignored.

A relatively new relationship needs this chemical condition in order to cement the attachments that the couple feel for each other.

In an affair, this same chemical bath is also at work, only the normal situation surrounding newlyweds that blends into marriage, is missing from an affair. This is what I think contributes to the 'bizarre' behavior often seen in people involved in an affair.

The reason I bring this up is so that you can understand some of what is missing from your relationship with frozen since your affair was ongoing during your courtship.

Both of you have been robbed of the normal 'chemical bath' that new relationships need at the beginning. Frozen lost hers suddenly, yours was squandered away on someone else. Basically, the relationship has been robbed of a couple years worth of 'feel good'.

The missing chemicals mean that there are going to have to be some very hard, firm choices made. Frozen has made hers. You are still working toward your choice. I do believe that you think you have chosen, but your choice, is one that can only be proven after the fact.

What I would like to see, for the both of you, is some brand new, newlywed level brain chemistry between you two, in a proper setting and relationship. Believe it or not, it is entirely possible for the two of you to have this 'feeling' toward each other. Again for your wife, and possibly for the first time for you.

It is going to take work to get there.

Let me say that I agree with what others have said - that you two should get the best counseling that you can afford. In the mean time, I want to work with you in addressing what you have done.

Here is a small thing that you can start right away if you choose to. It will sound bizarre to you, but it will help remove some of the undefined, but fond feelings you have toward the other woman. This will help put your mind in a state more receptive toward your wife.

First, you pick out any single thing about your ex-other woman that you disliked. It could be something about a giggle, or her feet, or maybe you didn't like her chin. Whatever. There is almost always something that an affair partner finds distasteful about the other person. Focus on this.

Now, Every time that you think about the other woman, replace the thought with the image of what you dislike about her. I promise that if you practice this religiously, a change in the 'fog' and the way you view the relationship will occur quickly. It will literally change your brain chemistry (according to theory, but it does work) This is NOT some magic or occult practice. It is a simple exercise used in de-programing cult victims. It is also used as a coping mechanism.

Lastly for today, I want you to spend the next 24 hours noticing your wife. I don't mean groveling or acting weird or trying to be something you are not. I want you to really see who she is, and what you mean to her.

Notice the tears. The hurt is for you, and because of you. Look at the pain in her eyes at times. Watch her with her children. Do you really see the care and love she provides them? Do you see the control she is straining to master over her emotions? She is doing this because she loves you, and she is damaged by you. She feels both at the same time. She is the woman you married. She is the woman you have chosen. She is the woman you have humbled yourself for. She is the best choice. She always was the best choice. Do you see why you wanted her?

Those were all rhetorical questions, but you need to ask them of yourself, not just once, but many times. As a man, I have to tell you, your wife is a real find. The sooner you see her as others do, the more likely you are to keep her. Don't think for a second that there aren't honest, serious men out there - good husband material, that would jump at the chance to court her.

Be open with your wife, patriot. No false humility. honest, open, and COMPLETE answers. Being a man is all about quiet strength of character.

I don't want to overwhelm you for now. I do think you have what it takes to deal with this. So does your wife. Don't let her down.


All the best,
Gimble

Hi Patriot,

Just wanted to say to you that you should be real lucky your W gave you a second chance, as a WS myself I wasn't given the chance and we ended up in divorce court quicker than anything. I don't know if it because I am the woman and men seem less forgiving or what but by being on here and reading these posts I am soon discovering there are more woman on here forgiving there WS's then men are. If the roles were reversed do you think you could forgive her? Think about what you would want her to do to prove to you that she could be trusted again. It has been awhile since my affair our divorce after a yr of seperation and no plans on working it out ( he told me he just wanted to date and get on with his life) was finalized in April of 2004.

Please especially if you have children and are truly in love with her let her have the time to heal and get over this and continue to show her just how much she really does mean to you.

It is very hard to keep a marriage going but it is so much harder dealing with the trauma of divorce and how it effects everyone involved especially the children. If you can, try hard to keep your family together. It seems like divorce is too easy to come by and no one wants to try and work it out anymore before they make that final decision.

Patriot:

I read your post and became a bit disheartened. I've followed you & Froz from the beginning and at times I think you're doing great things, yet at other times I fear that you don't - and never will "get it"! This is not a personal attack at all but I can easily see why Froz remains frustrated and is afraid to re-commit.

You've gotten excellent advice from PEP, Gimble, RIF and vrhurt on this post alone so i'm not going to offer a lot. However I would like to offer this question: Do you know what it means to; "Die to Self"? This is not a rhetorical question; I am asking for a reason. Thanks.

FR

Oh...my...my....my.

Patriot, I just wrote you a long e-mail after reading your posts back in January. Now I have read this one. After just reading all these posts...I am even more in shock now.

So much here reminds me of what my husband and I are going through. I haven't read anything your wife has written, but I will. I don't know her side yet, but I feel we may be going through exactly the same things.....especially the fear to trust.

I will continue reading.

I also wanted to thank Gimble, Pepperband and Fishracer. You have all given such great advice and all have brilliant insight into this situation. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

I will continue reading....I find so much comfort on this site.

Thanx,
seeking truth

I think it's great that you see what you did wrong and that you are here to get help. I do agree that you need to go to MC.

When I read posts like these it makes me sad that my WH doesn't feel this way. He seems to have no regrets and doesn't care about me at all. That really hurts!!!! I just don't know how we could have been together for so long and he can just leave me and never turn back. He never even gave us a chance. It's now way too late for that but I wish in the beginning he would have tired.
I wish you and Froz nothing but the best. Show Froz what she means to you. Saty strong....don't lose your wife!!!!!!

Patriot,

I think you need to come to a place where yu realize that there are things you can control and things you can't, and manage those things that you can.

You CANNOT make froz trust you. You CAN behave in trustworthy ways. If you continue to behave in a trustworthy manner, she will eventually extend you some trust. You are wrong to expect her to extend you ANY trust at this point. You have to earn what you can back and understand that she will never again trust you like she did before. It WILL require some PERMANENT changes in your behavior. Are you good with that?

You CANNOT make froz stay or go. That is entirely her decision. You CAN start living with integrity and honesty from this moment forward. Doing this to save your marriage is the wrong reason. While it certainly doesn't hurt your marriage, this is something you need to do even if your marriage dissolves. Do it for YOU. If she asks you questions, you should answer honestly and forthrightly. Anything less is you being manipulative. However, it IS ok to be sensitive to how you present your response (this is not "sugar coating"). It IS ok to ask her if she's sure that she's ready to hear it. But, you must answer her questions.

So focus on the things you can control...your behaviors. Froz will have to own her feelings about it. If she asks you for a certain behavior that will help her feel more secure, be inclined to comply. Realize that it won't be that way forever.

Low

In response to Pepperband:

I am holding together all right it seems. The quote is quite true, but it brings up an interesting thought for me. If I would have been thinking, I mean truly thinking, about the fallout from my actions, would I have had an affair? Obviously no. Maybe that is what “fog” really is. The brain confusing all reason or something. What I mean to say is this; Where I am right now is not where I want to be and for as much truth as there is in your quote…… advice like that comes only after the fact when the crime is already done. So what it really says is this… “You got yourself here, so deal with it.” Just a thought. Nothing negative I am trying to convey. I do understand that earning her trust is my responsibility. It would be foolish of me to begin to believe she would just trust me again. That said, I will pose a logical analogy for you. To get a job in the professional computing sector, quite typically you must already have experience in what they are hiring you for. To get experience in the private sector, you must have a job. Do you see how this is an “egg first, chicken first” kind of idea? When I said that she would have to extend me a little trust to play with, I was misunderstood and this analogy/idea I have explained was all I was addressing. I realize she will not trust me. I realize that I have to earn her trust. I am not expecting her to do anything she is not comfortable with. If she wants to pack up and leave(or for me too), she has every right to that decision. I am sure she would get tons of support here for “sending paty up the river” and all that. The point is, if anyone reads what I type as me expecting to receive something such as trust without earning it, I respectfully say you are wrong. I accept the responsibility of proving myself a good risk to my spouse. That I am here is a small gesture of that, I presume. If I wanted more devious behavior, I am not so sure I would stick around here and post, or even stay married for that matter. What I did was horrid. I know that. So do you. I am here begging mercy and wanting to become better. My wife deserves a great husband that will protect her and love her. She is truly the greatest woman around. I appreciate your replies Pep. Also, on the humility thing… possibly I am being blind. Where in my statements do you get the idea that I am arrogant or boastful? Please point them out so I may address either the misunderstanding or my personality. It has to be one or the other. Thank you


In response to RIF:

She and I have been to 2 different MCs over a period of time after Dday. If you will recall from our posts some time back, the first one “fired” us. It was a relatively traumatic deal for both of us and was not helpful at all. I guess recovery periods have their setbacks. The MC we are seeing now is quite a bit better, but froz is not sure this MC is proactive enough. I like that she is very Christ-centered when it comes to relationships between a woman and a man, but I wonder if this MC is really getting a chance from either of us because everytime we have been to her, we have been late and froz has been apprehensive about either the session itself or something outside of it and so the MC is relegated to dealing with a 50m target instead of the 300m(this is army talk for dealing with the immediate issue and not the “real” issue, or the big picture). Both MCs I scheduled, found, made the calls, did the insurance…. So on. FYI only. Not patting my back. I am only trying to be proactive in the saving of my relationship and marriage to this wonderful woman.

In response to Gimble:

I’m 31. I have gotten the feeling that a number of people around here see me as much younger than that. I am pretty sure some that have posted will read this and have the eyebrows raised thinking “31?”. I am immature in some areas. I am not in others. I have served in the US Army in some capacity for 14 years. That speaks to the mature side. I collect Star Wars Legos. That speaks to the immature side. There is plenty more that I could classify either way, but what people have to remember is that other people are a number of good things and bad things all rolled up into one. You have individual qualities and then an overall score, if you will. And the score(the judgment of a quality being good or bad) is completely up to the viewer of the quality. You might think it is despicable to spend ANY time on the internet, or porn sites or whatever. I guaranty you someone else in the world does not. Mathematically, there are too many people in the world to not find a large base of like-minded people on a particular issue that you TOTALLY disagree with. Simply look at the Abortion issue for you example. Nothing strikes up the debate like that one.

You are speaking to my soul with all your logical “chemical-bath” talk my friend. I love to break something down into logical units and work it. It is what I do. I would love to enjoy a honeymoon period with Froz. And I want to be receptive to her. I can always be more receptive I am sure, but the issue you have brought up first under this area is possibly not an issue. Maybe I have already done some of this work you are talking about. You said to pick out something about XOW that I disliked and then focus on it. With this, you state that I can de-program myself to not like her anymore. To get myself out of the fog. Although the term “fog” gets used rather loosely around here I think, I am not confused about what I am doing, who I am going to do it with, and where I want to be. I do not wish to be with XOW. I do not recall anything from that time with fond recollection. Quite frankly, it was filthy. I don’t need to focus on one certain thing I disliked about XOW to dislike her. I dislike her right now, and have for some time. Possibly some around here find it hard to believe that I find her so repulsive given the factor of time. I have zero desire to see her, contact her, accidentally run into her or anything. She represents a very evil time in my life. Maybe other WSs hold on for a little while. I guess that is silly to say because there exists Plan A and Plan B, which are all about breaking the affair apart after D-day…. So from that I can surmise that if the plans are needed and oft talked about… then there are lots of WSs holding on and confused or whatever. I am not one of those. Very shortly after D-day, possibly within the first 48 hours, I was already at that point. Done with the OW. Done with the second life. Not confused as to if I really loved Froz or not. I did really love Froz and I wanted to recover. I wanted to make it all right, although I will never erase it. I just didn’t know how to do it. With MB and MC in the picture, plus discussions here and talks into the wee hours of the morning, I think we have made progress and identified some ways to become better and to pull out of the flat spin I induced. Interestingly enough, I have found that without infidelity dragging someone to this site, there is just good solid fundamentals for holding a marriage together here. Maybe Dr. Harley is psychic or something. I think he has vast experience. He has been doing this a long time with lots of failure at first(by his own admission) and, over time, refined his approach until it worked. And it seems to work if both participants are on the same team.

I see the need for radical honesty. I should not have anything to hide from my wife, save the surprise party or something of that nature. I get that. My life is an open book. Luckily for me, the Army position I am in now is fine with my wife being at events I have to be at. She is encouraged, actually, to play a large role in my Army career by both myself and the Army.

Speaking of luck, I am not blind to the luck I obviously have that she has chosen to stay with me and work this out instead of cutting and running. I am blessed and that is true. I will be forever grateful for her and her willingness to tow this line.

I want to thank all the posters on this thread for their input. It is valuable to me and I thank you for taking the time to care about the marriage of a man and woman you have never met. The support you provide is tremendous.

Hi, Patriot.

I would have put you at about 26 instead of 31 :-)

I also appreciate your comments on judging. For me, it is really simple. I judge people based on their honesty. Over the years, I have learned to do a pretty good job of sizing people up.

I have a concern with this comment from you " I do not wish to be with XOW. I do not recall anything from that time with fond recollection. Quite frankly, it was filthy. I don’t need to focus on one certain thing I disliked about XOW to dislike her. I dislike her right now, and have for some time"

I appreciate what you are saying here, patriot, but it seems to me that such distance would not only be a monumental feat, but unlikely to happen from the chemistry side of the street.

From what I have read, it isn't uncommon for male and female former wayward spouses to go so far as to use mental and physical imagery of the other person for masturbatory fantasies, sometimes for years after the affair has ended.

I am not saying that you can't be over it so soon, but it doesn't sit well with me. Let's let that one sit for a while and potentially revisit it at a later date. If you do find yourself thinking about the other woman, please incorporate the exercise I mentioned.

Please tell me about the phone issue between you and Frozen earlier (Thursday).

Can you tell me some about the programming work you do? What language is your favorite. What platforms have you done work on, that kind of thing.

All the best,
Gimble

I am repulsed by XOW. That said, I have thought about her on occasion. I will apply your theory, as it certainly seems to make sense to me. I want to heal and move on, and this does seem to be a logical part of the journey.

The phone situation. Well, first I want to say [censored]. [censored]. I rode my motorcycle in yesterday morning. It was 38 degrees. The only thing cold were my hands, but they were very cold. Sometime during the morning, I sat down at my desk and jabbed myself in the side with my cellphone, so I took it off and tossed it in my helmet. Here in lies the first mistake. Later on, I went to get a new ID card, for active duty, and did not have my cellphone on me. As soon as I got back from that, one of the others folks in the office grabbed me to help recieve supplies into the storage area. He didn't need me there.... it was an exercise in instruction. Showing me the ropes on yet something else that goes on in my office. When we finished that, We came back the the office and he proceeded to sit in my cube and BS with me for around 30-45 minutes. Some on work, and some not. It was rather irritating actually because it was at the beginning of the BS session that Froz called my cell for the 6th time(the one time I heard) and then turned around and called my office phone(of which I answered). I really have no excuse for not answering the cellphone. At that moment, I was being talked to about work related items, and so I thought it rude to say excuse me and answer the phone. I am trying not to make a bad impression up here since this is my first week. But the fact is, the person I was talking to is not my boss and I should have said excuse me and answered my cell. Before that, I should have had the cell on me. What really sucks is I feel like I am making a very solid effort on a lot of things and then something like this happens and erases any work that has been accomplished. I agree I could do so much more. I need to work on setting my pride down and just taking in what people are telling me to see if it fits. If it does, fine. If not, fine. Maybe I am being defensive. I will try not to be, but I know I will be defensive again sometime soon.

I just feel like such a failure. And I can't explain anything because anything I say is crap. And then actions get misrepresented and I am screwed. Very defeating, actually.

I am a microsoft guy. Not that I love the company or something, but I chose Windows based programming over other types. I am quite able to work in SQL from the development side and some on the admin side. I have written applications in C, VC++, and .NET(primarily C++ and VB). I am pretty well versed in dealing with integration of COTS software into existing custom applications. I have done these kinds of things with Remedy(a huge workflow mgmt system), SQL RS(reporting services... the newest part of SQL and a potental replacement for Crystal Reports)and some other stuff. I also wrote reports using Crystal and SQL RS. I have written services for Windows. Nothing spectacular, but writting a service takes a little more thought than your standard app.

I am a big fan of the .NET development environment, although it is not without it issues and annoyances. It is quite a step forward from VS 6.0. I miss writing code.

there a number of really good things I miss right now. I have up and down days too. Today is a down day. Maybe by lunch I will feel better.

Hi, Patriot.

Of course you have up and down days. Former wayward spouses are human too.

Here is what I suggest on the cell phone. Make a schedule to contact your wife on. Talk to Frozen and find out what she would like.

Once you have a schedule, then you make SURE that you contact her on time. and if you find yourself with a conflict, something like your boss is sitting with you, then use a pre-arranged signal to let her know.

Add to that, the agreement that Frozen can make a couple of random calls to you everyday. Same rules and signals apply.

Consistency is the key here.

I know this is a new job and there are some significant pressures. Both of you must realize this and work around it.

For example. I allow my employees to have cellphones. Some companies don't. If I catch an employee using their cell phone and not getting their work done, then I am not very happy. I find that I can tolerate a cell phone slightly interrupting a conversation I am having with an employee, only when they punch the hang-up button. I am considered generous with my employees.

Check and see if your new job has a cell phone policy. Bring it home and talk it over with Frozen.

Next subject. STD's. Have you gone and had yourself tested yet? If not, you need to make immediate plans to do so. This is something that YOU need to do. Don't wait on Frozen to arrange this. Bring the results home for Frozen to see. Get this taken care of ASAP.

Whether you realize it or not, knowing for sure what you have or don't is going to eventually make both of you feel better about sex with each other.

Back to computer talk for a minute.
I've done a lot of hardware design. Since a lot of the work I have done has been single board embedded applications, and often with new micros and arrays, I had to get really proficient at assembly language. When I started (long time ago), no one wanted a board without some low level operational capability included.

Let me know what you and Frozen work out on the phone usage/availability issue.

All the best,
Gimble

The phone issue. Today's folly on that was the battery died. I called her around noon while I was getting lunch, to see how she was and to tell her I had left work to go get something to eat. At that time I mentioned the phone was dying. It had been beeping for around an hour then(it beeps maybe every hour, to let you know it is low battery) and by the time I left from work, it was dead. It was on my hip the whole time, but under my BDU shirt so it was not like I could see the screen for it. Anyway, it died. The battery in it seems to be good for around a day and a half. Today was the half, and I didn't have a charger. So of course when I left work she called me on the cell and I didn't answer. Because it didn't ring.

So, to fix this I will charge it every night(it is charging right now) and will make sure I carry it. I will probably toss in a few randoms calls in the day, maybe one or two. That was not past of the requirement for her. She just wants to be able to reach me. So, I have to carry a charged phone.

as far as cell phone policy, I think I have some leway where I am at now. And as for you and your pissy unless they push the hang-up button.... you might think twice about that policy. What if someone working for you needed to be available to their spouse for something much like this. They probably aren't going to tell you the story as to why. Just a thought

I have made appointments for the tests. HIV screen is already done and I was told they would know in 72 hours. That was monday. And they will only contact me if it is bad. They haven't called, and they won't waste time if it is bad.

Anyway, that is all for now. I double checked that the phone solution was acceptable.

Hi, Patriot.

Look, I am not trying to boss you around. All I am trying to do with you is keep you on your toes, and handle whatever comes up enough to hopefully keep the two of you communicating effectively.

You are going to feel like you are living in a bubble for a while. That is because, in effect, you are. That is necessary fallout. It gets better in time.

So, you are probably wondering exactly what my intentions are. My intentions are to bird-dog you until you are well into recovery, or Frozen tells me to stop. The reason why is simple. I think Frozen deserves a decent chance having a workable marriage. She and I are alike in some ways. I want her to succeed. That means that you have to succeed also.

There is no obligation for you to answer my questions or like me. I am hoping that you will work with me here, and let me help the two of you get over the tough part of your journey.

Good deal on the phone. It would be a good thing if issues with the phone didn't reappear for a good while. I don't doubt that the whole idea of accountability irritates you. Again, the low down - If you resist, you make her doubt you. Be open, and it gets better faster. Your choice on what you do, her choice on her reaction to yours.

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... as far as cell phone policy, I think I have some leway where I am at now. And as for you and your pissy unless they push the hang-up button.... you might think twice about that policy. What if someone working for you needed to be available to their spouse for something much like this. They probably aren't going to tell you the story as to why. Just a thought
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I am glad for you and Frozen that you have a lot of leeway with your cell phone.

As for my "pissy", we have phones and a switchboard. Someone with an emergency can certainly get through. Besides, it is my company, my money, my rules. My employees are well paid and well cared for. If they don't like our phone policy, then they can seek other employment.

Way to go on the STD testing! I know that sucks. but it is the right thing to do, and both of you are going to be very happy that you did.

So, how did the 24 hours of noticing your lovely wife go? Did you see things in her that you had never noticed before?

Hang in there Patriot. Continue to work at your relationship. Do your best to see how hard Frozen is working at it too. She really is. The whole situation is currently majorly high on the 'suckage scale'. It will get better. Believe it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...or Frozen tells me to stop...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DON'T STOP!!!!! I need you, Gimble!

Dearest Sensei

Hello to you sir. I know you are not trying to boss me around. I am passionate about this issue because I want my M to be rock solid. I also have a sense of humor. So, please don't misunderstand what I write as an attitude, lashing out at you or anything of the sort. I truly appreciate your time and efforts. I am not unaware of the fact that you don't even know what I look like(maybe you do... there was a wedding picture thingy available for a little while) and we have never met. That said, I value what you have to say. I am grateful that you even take the time.

I make jokes sometimes and try to keep things light-hearted. That is just how I am. However, I have the most serious of intentions about rebuilding and your advice has been excellent. I don't really wonder what your intentions are because I have classified it as you have found a connection to Froz and myself in some fashion, and that is that reasoning for your efforts.

There are some very interesting people here. You, my personal M coach. Pepperband, froz's eMom and cheerleader(also my eMIL by default). RIF, the military voice of experience. noodle, ever the blunt realist. Treereich will always be special just being one of the first to respond to Froz. There are others. All very good people. I appreciate everyones thoughts and encouragements(even when I might not see them as such at first)

The phone issue was really caused by logistical failures. Either the equipment was not co-located with me or the equipment was down. In discussions with Froz, these are the two issues I need to address. Sure, I think she would love to have me call and say Hi or I love you or how is your day, baby? But the real issue is that when she tried to get a hold of me, I was not responding. And that of course breeds big-time doubt. I'm no fool. I see that plain as day. I get down in the mouth about it because it is a situation that feels out of my control at the time and it affects Froz and me adversely. Fact is, I do have control. A plan. Keep the phone on me and make sure it is charged up. Once I get a car, I will be able to have a backup charger in the car to help me when I oops a little and forget to charge the thing.

When I said pissy to you, I thought I was using your words. After just rereading, it was not. Your words are "not very happy". The only message I was trying to convey is sometimes, rules need to be broken. Your rule is to tolerate the ringing as long as they hang it up right then. Basically, let them know they have a call, but they will get back to it in a minute. Family is more important than a job in all scenarios I can imagine and sometimes a spouse calls because they are sad, hurt or something of that nature. And not getting a response from the person you are trying to call can be rather defeating sometimes. I guess I am rambling on this one... it is your company, money and rules. You don't sound like a difficult boss and I am not trying to make you out to be one. What I have learned is this. Sometimes, people define your character by judging you on things, and the way you react to them, when you never knew you were in the hotseat. They think you are a generous boss. That one time you bend your rule for someone when they REALLY needed it, and you didn't know it, is such a priceless investment in the "Hey, Mr. Gimble really does care for us... I love working here" factor that I doubt it could be measured in $$. I really have the feeling I have not explained this well. All this is is me talking. I am not trying to convince you either way. Just tossing food for thought out there.

24. She has the softest skin. She thinks I look down on her when her nails are chipped. She tries to hide them from me when I look at her hands. Her hair is as long as I have ever seen it. No matter how she fixes it, it always looks good. Sometimes awesome. She has the neatest tendency to not look at you directly when she talks to you. She looks at you from a sort of side-angle. It is like a supermodel posing for a picture. They never look directly into the camera.... there is always an angle. That is how she looks at me, like she is always posing. I know that she does this without thinking about it, which is what makes it the sexiest and cutest thing. She is an expert at putting on make-up so that it does not even seem to be there. Always blended perfectly. Truly accentuates features that are to me, beautiful already. She is so strong, even though she will deny it. And giving, even when she says she has nothing to give. I watch her watching me sometimes. She laughs at my jokes. She gets me. I have more, but she is getting ready for work and wants me with her right now so I'll stop.

Thank you Gimble. I do like you. You have helped me in my situation. Please take care of yourself as well.