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#1277848 02/16/05 10:09 PM
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...from all of you, and from myself.

Here's what I got:

From Noodle -

"Frozen..I think once you accept that you are only there by choice..that you have every right in the world to walk away..no obligation to do otherwise whatsoever..then perhaps you will not be in such turmoil. What I feel when I read your posts is a woman who wants out . Is that true? Is that what you want?
Unless you WANT to recover..it isn't going to happen.
Don't think of Patriot..don't think of the person you thought he was..because you KNOW that was a lie...what do YOU Frozen want? What will YOU Frozen sacrifice for? No matter what choice you make..there will be loss. There is no way out without pain. What do you want?"

Okay, Noodle. This is what I want. I WANT to recover. I WANT it to be with my HUSBAND who I am CHOOSING to stay married to.

You were right. I've thought about it, and I am willing to give him a chance, singular. I've defined this boundary with him. I will not tolerate an A in this marriage. I, like you, have no interest in a plan A. I won't do it.

I have thought today about what I want. I really, for the first time, let go of my feelings of obligation and thought about what I really want.

I read what you wrote in your last post when I asked you if YOU would give him this chance. I respect your opinion or I wouldn't have asked. I see some things in him that bring me to this decision. He is WORTH the risk. There are qualities that he possesses that make him quite valuable to me. We, together, have something rare. Sure, I could find someone else I might be happy with. He is special. He is obviously not without his flaws, but he is special. Together, we have a chance at something pretty great. I see the potential. If it doesn't work out, it will be painful. Who knows? Later, you may wish you'd bet that money. A chance at the reward is worth the risk of pain. It really is.

More learning...I know the WHY. It's a pretty complicated why (I'm sure they all are). Here it is...

"It is an internal problem..it needs an internal solution..you are not him..and will not know when/if change has occurred..or if this is more illusion."
-Noodle

It was not my fault. I met his needs as I knew them to be; as he told me they were. This A was the result of a character issue within him. This A would have happened whether he was single, had a girlfriend, a fiance, whatever. It had a lot to do with his self-image, among other things. It was an internal issue. I DID NOT FAIL HIM. He failed me, and he failed himself. I may not have been perfect and I'm certainly guilty of being naive, but it was not my fault, nor did I 'create an environment that made it possible'. He did that.

From Gimble -

'"Simply put, our choices must define boundaries for our emotions".

What I think you need to do at this point in your life, is to move your boundaries, and limit, at least for a time, your reaction to your emotions.
Technically, your normal boundaries may be fine for your emotions when they are at 'normal' levels. Right now, they are extreme. They are ruling you instead of you ruling them. You need to reign them in.'

This was hard for me to see and I'm grateful to have it oulined so clearly. It will not be easy, but Gimble gave me a script (which I will print and carry with me) -

Practically, for starters, whenever you 'feel' that what you are about to say or do is in direct and immediate expression of how you feel RIGHT NOW, pause, wait a few seconds. Play through your head what you would have said. Ask yourself; "Do I really need to say this? Is this going to help or hurt my situation? Is this going to escalate or calm matters?"

From Pep -

'"this too shall pass" ... because it all passes, the GOOD and the BAD .... one day we all shall be dust .... so breathe in and out and take pleasure in your life at every opportunity.'

and...

"smart
warm
dedicated
caring
flawed
honest
loving
pissy
survivor
........ what's NOT to like?"

I think I'm ready to start working.

*God, please don't let this be just a temporary "up" on the rollercoaster. I seem to have noticed this - the higher the "up", the lower the "down" that follows. I'm not asking for completely smooth sailing (unless You want to give me that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), just please let this be a beginning.

Amen*

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Congratulations..

The big jump..now you know what direction to go..and you know that YOU chose it.

I remember well the day I came to that place..although the road has certainly been both long and hard..once past this point it was at least less frought with self doubt.

Here's to recovery..slainte

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Froz...Hi.

I am new on Marriage Builders and have mostly posted on the Just Found Out section. I came across your husband's first post.

I have just finished reading all of your husband's posts and I wrote him to tell him how much he reminded me of my husband, and how I also felt you reminded me of me. He just responded and said he was in a hurry, but that I reminded him of you.

Now that I have just read this brief post, I can't believe it! It is like you are taking the feelings in my heart and the words from my brain and putting them down on paper.

This is so freaky...but a good freaky.

I have to run.....but I will be back to read YOUR story.

take care of yourself,
seeking truth

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frozen...
You can get through all of this! Stay strong and keep your chin up!
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

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frozen...
You can get through all of this! Stay strong and keep your chin up!
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

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Whheeeeeee!!!!!!! Isn't that what you're supposed to say on a rollercoaster? I guess I should put my hands up? Some people do. I was always the one holding on tight and ducking my head down with my eyes closed tightly so I didn't have to see the ground rushing up at me.

What the hell happened to that feeling I had yesterday?

I think it dissipated in my car today when I called Patriot at work today - six times on his cell phone, and another six or so on his work phone. He was nowhere to be found. I finally reached him a bit later. I made an extremely controlled effort not to sound like his mother when I asked him where he'd been.

He apologized...he always does. He said he loved me...he always does that, too. As a matter of fact, he did that when I couldn't reach him at work during his A. I wonder, what is the truth and what is the illusion?

I just read something Seeking Truth posted on a thread of Patriot's. It was addressed to me and she asked me if I thought Patriot was taking the lead to heal our relationship. I'm sorry to say, but no, I do not. It seems as though every time I take a step forward he drags me back. He then acts wounded, as though I should feel sorry for him because he made an 'honest mistake' or was misinterpreted in some way or a victim of circumstances beyond his control. When I am hurt by his actions, he runs and hides like a scolded child. Except, I did not scold him. I just told him how I felt. For once, I did not react emotionally. I took Gimble's advice and I THOUGHT first. I guess I am expected to be the one to start communication or reach out. I don't even have the desire. I'm tired of pursuing him. He doesn't even see me.

I said yesterday that he was special. He is. I know this to be true. A few minutes ago, I was thinking about that and it suddenly occurred to me...maybe I'M the one that isn't.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> I said yesterday that he was special. He is. I know this to be true. A few minutes ago, I was thinking about that and it suddenly occurred to me...maybe I'M the one that isn't. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are both special. Don't forget what you learned yesterday. Hang in there.

I will be posting to Patriot again tonight sometime after midnight.

Patriot, I really need to know why the phone deal happened today. Please tell me on your thread.

All the best,
Gimble

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Frozen, IMHO you are too caught up in your emotions. That is the biggest ups and downs of the roller coaster. Yes, it sucks that initially it seems the BS does most if not all of the work but if the WS is really willing to committ to the M they will have to eventually catch up. What you need to focus on is YOU, not Patriot. Please seek out a good MC. You cannot do this on your own. You need support and guidance. Oh, and it is not "you". {{Frozen}}

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Okay, guys. I was being a big baby last night. I'm just frustrated with the situation and was feeling sorry for myself.

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

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I was referring only to the "special" comment. The rest still holds true.

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Tonight was pretty rough. We had another 'incident' of Patriot not being reachable this afternoon. I didn't even say anything to him about it, really. What's the point? We had a talk this evening about OW. I asked some questions. Again, I got contradictory answers to questions I've asked before. I remained calm throughout and didn't attack him at all. When I started to feel that fire race through my body that usually leads to my 'spitting venom', I just calmy told him I thought it was time to stop. I am glad I didn't freak out this time. I'm so tired of the fallout from his decisions. I feel about a thousand miles away from him.

I was reading on another thread a situation where (it sounded like) a couple who'd been trying to recover for quite some time was getting divorced. I think it said after five years. I find myself wondering if that will be me in a few years (or less). Will we just keep trying to trudge through this mess and never reach the other side? How do you know when it's time to save yourself and just walk away?

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: frozen1229 ]</small>

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by frozen1229:
<strong> How do you know when it's time to save yourself and just walk away? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to give you a simple answer, but you will know.

Have patience.

Gimble

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have patience</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks. I will.

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frozen,

I remember sitting in the valley. In this valley, there were huge mountains all around. One mountain was recovery, and one was divorce. Both of them looked insurmountable and for a long time...it seemed much safer to just stay in my valley. But you know what the scariest thing was...the thing that made it so hard to move? It wasn't that I was afraid of climbing a mountain....I was afraid I would have to climb them both!!

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Star*fish,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was afraid I would have to climb them both!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BULLSEYE!

Don't leave me in suspense! What did you do?

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What a great thread!
I cannot tell you how much I needed to read this today. Tina


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