Hi all, went to JMC today and finally got some airtime.

The MC asked both WS and I some stuff about how we felt and what we though the other person felt when this was happening etc.

Then the MC asked me some very necessary but hard questions.

Q1. What did I want out of the JMC sessions? WS wants to R / save M apparently at any cost, but I am not committing at this stage. Still waiting for proof / to see what has changed and that this will not happen again.

Q 2. What does WS have to do to regain my trust again as this is a big issue for me? Well, being completely tramsparent about things would be nice. She seems to be hiding certain things about A and past / present feelings for the OP, possibly to sheild me or becuase she forgets or she is too embarressed. (I know she is not seeing op any more so that's not the issue)

3. She admitted that OP made her feel incredibly alive during PA (the supposed couple of encounters) they had, and that the spark had gone out of our sex life for ages (even before we were marrtied). This was news to me as she had said he was a dud and prior to A told me how I was the only one that made her feel that way. This gutted me in a way that I never expected. I nearly walked out of MC never to return. A combination of anger, disappointment and feeling betrayed by the lies. MC picked this up and changed tack as the session had just about ended.

I can't explain how devestated point 3 made me feel. It was like I had been living lie for the last 6 or seven years. I could not beleive this from some one who never showed any interest in sex, trying new things etc.

Man did this cut me deep!!!

It's making me angry and upset right now. I am going to stop here before I get too wound up!!

Of course your MC doesn't know about the fantasy of the affair and rewriting history. Your wife is spouting off the same old WS stuff - right from the handbook. She needs more time to get out of the fog.

Hang in there and continue going to MC.

Hi RM,

I am sorry your were hurt in this counseling session.That's a given in Recovery but I can understand the third Q&A.

I think it is so important to have a special counselor who knows things like Steve does.Your WW might have felt "alive" during this adultery but do not forget that it was illicit,stolen,secret,wrong,entitled.Of course if we all let ourselves go and have sex with a person we were attracted to if there were no internal deterrent then it would be exciting,I think,to many.No strings.Being married at a time like that is just an inconvenience IMO.

You cannot compare a sickening(to us) roll in the hay and emotional "connection" with that of true long lasting committed love.This OM was just a player in the big fantasy game.He helped her to be someone else who had no resonsibilities,like meeting Fabio at some Tahitian beach motel.

The fact is that she was not in tune with her own self and she in turn did not allow you in enough to make your marriage successful,creative,loving and exciting.She chose to be secretive and withholding and waited until there was a willing partner(homerwcking OM) that she could unleash herself to that she didn't have to be "judged" by.

I don't know if I will ever completely understand why WS's allow some smooth talking stranger,OP,to be so intimate with them when they already have loving,committed partners right there in marriage.

I am sure most drug addcits say the same things when they experience their first "high" too.Alive,powerful,excited,etc,etc.Your WW has yet to put the A where it belongs: in the trash heap.That will take time.I would bring up how this session made you feel in your next one.Don't let it pass it by without addressing it,ok?

Stay Strong.

O

beleiver - no you are right, she probably does not. I have no animosity towards MC'er, I think she has done a reasonably good job in our 3 sessions. I guess she wants to know if she should working towards a reconcilliation or if she should be helping us go our separate ways. I do think that WS was being honest about how she felt, as on some level I felt it / felt that way myself, but thought with lot's of love and some hard work we could get by. Silly me huh!!

Octobergirl - I am in sync with your thoughts on this. Seems because WS is now taking the blame for everything that I should be marching to her schedule, which sadly I am not. She called me to talk, but I declined as I think that I am still too hurt to talk to her constructively. Hell, I have been living a lie for many years how does she expect that I feel. Glad that I heard it now as opposed to 10 years from now. Bet her an the OP talked about it all the time.
I really want to hate her as it would allow me to walk away from this, but am not capable of it, I just get angry.
MC asked me why I still loved WS through all of the A, she knew the answer I suspect. I used your analogy of the drug addict, except that she was like my drg addicted child, how could you walk away, you would have unconditional love for that person wouldn't you.

Am very RAW at the moment, really feel like having a revenge A with her close friend(s), maybe then she would understand how it screws you to your core. (There is no need to tell me, I know better;-)

Got to stop and take breath.... Rman

From Greengables on the duplicate post

Greengables
Member # 11924 posted 16-02-2005 09:34 PM
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Wait! I was just going to reply. And I can't find the original if this is a duplicate. I understand how hurt you must feel over that comment.

I'd say that maybe, just perhaps, could your wife have meant the comment differently? Could she not have been talking about the sexual element? Or the skill involved?

Remember for females sex is incredibly cerebral. Just an idea.

So, what do you think? And did you catch my post about JMC? I just love it. [Sarcasm dripping]

Who knows what WS means. For 10 years she told me that I was the only man in her life to have ever brought her to a climax, suddenly I was sexually boring and the OP was blowing her mind. Thanks for coming younf man!! The irony of it is that she was never that great, but I loved her, so that was that, I put up with it.
What a drop kick I was huh!! I really wanted to tell her this today but didn't have the heart.

The urge to walk away from all this cr@p this at present is overwhelming. Made me realise just how much of myself I had given away and seemingly for nothing.

Boy am I blowing off some pent up anger here !!! didn't realise just how deep this goes..

Keep blowing it off RM,especially here.It's the only way to release it.I am 16 months past DDay now,with no sign of recovery and I still get plenty angry once in a while but I am much better.

At times I knew that my WH was comparing me to the homewrecker,that they had done things that we didn't(thanks for sharing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ) and other personal issues that he made me feel badly about.UGH.It still upsets me terribly when I think about it.

I guess if you sleep around enough you learn all the "tricks of the trade" there are but what was infinitely more important to me was our marriage bond,our love for one another and what I thought was our committment to each other.When you have that all sexual opportunities can be explored safely together and that to me is exciting,not doing it with some OP.

As cliche as it sounds,sex isn't everything.Life isn't just about that and at some point,your WW and OM too would have to come back down(crash and burn) to Earth and face reality and all of life's responsibilities,as has happened.

I can sympathize with how you want to chuck it all but just do this for *yourself: give it the best chance you can so you can,as we all say,walk away without any regrets that you didn't do your best,if that is your choice.

O

RM I want to add something to your post about my experience in MC. An earlier post pointed out that it would be nice if you MC understood fog and a WS like SH. They were right on there. Our MC asked questions about our feelings, etc. She took my STBXW responses as gospel truth, even though it was mostly fog (rewriting history, the whole fog language book). Well, needless to say, we are on the D road, partly maybe because it couldn't happen any other way (maybe, I'll never know), but a lot of it was our MC validating STBXW's foggy feelings. I mean, she was the pro, if she says our M is over it must be, right. Our MC even volunteered that our M was over before the A ever began, must have been for her to seek OM. She chastised us both for having a bad M that was doomed to fail, yet offered no solutions to help us fix our problems, only saying that too much damage had been done and it was irrepairable.

If you really want the choice of whether you want your M or not, I encourage you to really scrutinize your MC. Reread believer's post. It is very important.

RM, I can understand about point #3 devastating you but her sharing this with you might be an attempt to open up with you. What she said (if it wasn't slung at you in spite) might be a very difficult thing for her to share and your anger and withdrawal (although understandable) might push her farther away. You may also lose an important opportunity to greater fill both your and her needs.

Just another, hopefully, different opinion.

Hey Rman,

Good to see you posting....it seems to me you are trying to work through lots of issues and I think that is great....just a few thoughts.

Re: MC-in Dr. Harley's writings, he points out how MC's have the lowest rate of success than any other forms of coaching. He readily admits that they are not very good at putting back M's--I believe that is even without the added pressure of an A. Believer is sooooooo right on...it takes a special coach to know the stresses that A. Would you consider a few sessions esp. joint with SH? I think you even spoke with him before.

Re: Q #3 during MC- xWS is still fogged about her R with OM...she is glorifying the A and not coming to grips with the pain and reality it caused. In the past, you stated much pain about her portrayal of him, but the fog is sometimes like a hard crust and you have to keep chipping away at it.

If your xWS only knew, how much concern and care that you expressed for her, she would be so deeply touched. Affection is generally one of women's top EN's....then SF becomes really good.

Combine your feelings with a few rose petals, some candles, her favorite CD and some long, slow kisses and she is skyrocketing off the planet..maybe a couple of times....

hrhmmmmmm...{{{me, clearing my throat]]]]]...

Point is, Rman, you've got the stuff to make her happy...not happy in a "stolen, got away with something kind of happy", but happy "wow, I can't believe my H really loves me, and treated me like a diva kind of happy."

Re: Anger and protection--You expressed your anger here and that is great. OG is right...keep blowing it off here....sometimes I felt so much anger and I felt ashamed for feeling that...like I should be above that. You really made me feel normal by not holding it in...whew....thanks, Rman. I was getting tired of holding my breath like that. I understand your need to stay protected...I have been in recovery for three months and I am still there...but it if fewer and fewer days that I wonder if I still want to be here...my fog is subsiding although I am still in a very protected state.

Re: anti-d's I hope you are working thru this issue either with natural or prescription anti-d's...I think that helps alotttttttt.....I was on prescription anti-d's for five months and just stopped. They were not habitual and helped me to get thru.

Hang in there..RM..you can be happy again with you xWH....please consider MB coaching to help you thru... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />