I feel like a woke up this morning with new clarity. My WS spent over a year screwing her boss three times a week. A didn't end until they got caught, they got fired and I had to go pick her up at work because she lost her company vehicle. But according to her, it was just sex. Nothing more. BTW, she got caught approx 12-06-04 and told me the day she was fired (1-18-05).
So....the last month we've spent every day together trying to work through this mess. What hell. we read recovery books together. We talked. We raged. We cried. She sent an e-mail to OM to tell him it's over. She wants to save the marriage. I thought I wanted too as well. I'm not so sure now. Why? Well....
My moment of clarity. This is where I risk ticking everybody here off. I've read the books. I've read all the posts. I've searched myself. What gets me hot is this whole EN stuff. To me it seems like a crutch the WS can use to justify their cheating. BS! she made a choice. Life for us before and during the A was not trying. It was a great marriage. She made a deliberate choice to be with him. Granted, he pursued her for years and she finally gave in. And then she thought she could (and did) keep this going as her little secret other life. But hey, it was just sex.
So you see, I have trouble with the concept that I didn't meet some need for her so she decided to cheat with him. Ya know, I'm pretty confident that my marriage was pretty normal. Progressing along naturally. Sure, things could always be improved. We get lax and take things for granted. I just don't think she deserves an excuse for what she did. She and the OM have polluted so much. Selfish people. A destruction of innonence. My life will never be the same. I'll never be able to look at her the same. Horrible images in my head for the rest of my life. But somehow I am to blame for this? I think not.
So as you can see, I'm confused now. Feedback appreciated. Thanks for reading.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gunslng44:
<strong>I just don't think she deserves an excuse for what she did.

But somehow I am to blame for this? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agree. She doesn't deserve an excuse, and none are being offered from us or this site.

Disagree. You ARE NOT to blame for her decisions. Why did you think we thought that?

So, exactly why do you think she engaged in an affair?

Selfishness? A good universal answer for all affairees.

If she was being selfish, what was she seeking that she selfishly desired?

WAT

Slinger:

I struggled with the same issue and finally concluded this: Problems in M and A's are two totally different animals! People who choose A's while still married possess a character flaw. This flaw may be temporary or it may be permanent. Somehow, someway, WS's justify the reason for their A, without sanity or compassion.

In order for A to happen; MB claims that there had to be EN's not being met in the M - and I believe this generally to be true!

However that does not mean that the EN's are realistic or fair! Ex: My WXW had a firm belief that she should be able to totally disrespect me w/o cause or reason - however I was not allowed to ask for or expect the same from her. Therefore; because I was not meeting her EN's (albeit hypocritical and not conducive to healthy marriage) she began A. Worse yet; I've read on here where a WS claimed that their A is an EN and BS should honor MB principles; and accept the A!

I will also tell you that when some WS's emerge from the fog and realize what they've done; they begin to regret the shameful acts and work to rebuild M. Some work it out - some don't!

Bottom-Line: MB principles are good, meeting EN's is also good for all M's. But once the decision is made to begin A; then the A issue must be dealt with separately from the M issue(s). Man; I hope that made sense! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

FR

With all due respect, that's a lot of nonsense. EN's for disrespect and abuse? OK, I have a need to strangle the life out of my spouse. How dare she deny my need. Can't we come to some sort of mutually enthusiastic agreement as to how I strangle her?

You need to study MB concepts a little more deeply. You haven't gotten it yet.

You know, I think some folks don't understand the Marriage Builders principles.

First off, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR AN AFFAIR!!

THE WS IS 100% RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AFFAIR!!

There is no one here who has EVER said otherwise.

What MB does say is that OFTEN [not always!] the condition of the MARRIAGE created an environment that caused the WS to be vulnerable to an affair. For example, a man whose #1 need is SF will be vulnerable to a female who offers him sex if his spouse has cut him off for 5 years at home.

Even so, the WS, no matter how vulnerable, MADE THAT CHOICE. No one else made that choice. People go without their needs being met every day, they DO NOT all choose to have an affair!!

If the concept of UNMET needs does not apply to you, then they DO NOT apply to you! Nowhere does Harley state that ALL AFFAIRS stem from unmet needs.

The affair in my current marriage did not occur from unmet needs. PERIOD. The affair that ended my last marriage [20 years and 2 kids] did occur from unmet needs in my marriage. I might as well as driven my XH to the OW and threw him in her arms, that is how much I contributed to his state of mind. I destroyed that marriage so the unmet needs concept is very appropos. It is NOT in my current marriage.

So, please don't think that anyone is saying that a) you are responsible [you are not!] or b)every affair occurs as a result of unmet needs.

If it applies, it applies, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Fishracer+:
<strong> My WXW had a firm belief that she should be able to totally disrespect me w/o cause or reason - however I was not allowed to ask for or expect the same from her. Therefore; because I was not meeting her EN's (albeit hypocritical and not conducive to healthy marriage) she began A. Worse yet; I've read on here where a WS claimed that their A is an EN and BS should honor MB principles; and accept the A!

FR </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FR, an affair and treating others disrespectfully is not an emotional need, it abuse; a lovebuster, and is recognized as such.

Could it be that the epiphany you have discovered has more to do with your W's justification of it being "just sex"
and the realization that she may not have
the same value system as you?

In my case, the A was affected by unmet needs, but Steve Harley said that was NOT the cause of the affair. The affair was caused because my H FAILED TO PROTECT HIS WEAKNESSES. I have read of lots of people on this board whose marriages were strong and healthy, and their spouse still had an affair. But every single affair WAS caused by the WS failing to protect their weaknesses. By failing to protect the marriage, if you will.

Amen, starz!

Having read the various MB materials and combining with some training by psychologists at work, I have come up with an interpretation of the ENs.

Put simply, you cannot make someone else do something. What you have to ask yourself is, "what is it that I can do that will yield the result that I am looking for." This is a key premise in anything that you do in life...

Knowing the other person's ENs provides an opportunity for you to gain insight into what makes the other person tick. Knowing that, you can then choose what thing(s) that you can do that can yield the end result you are looking for. If spending more time at home is the other person's #1 concern and that they feel that you are weak there, you can try to focus on that. Or you can ignore it, say that the person is wrong and then ask yourself, "will this get me the end result that I am looking for?"

Try to think of it in this way and I think you'll see things differently.

Just my 2 cents.

Let me echo the previous posts...

What you are mistakenly doing is combining two ENTIRELY SEPERATE things: The condition that your M was in, and cause(s) of the A.

I have to constantly remind my WW that it didn't matter if I was beating her black & blue (I have never laid a hand on my W in anger), there is absolutely NO justification for her engaging in the A! If she felt she needed to leave, then so be it. But the choice to have an A was entirely hers! Yes, you may have been able to meet more of her EN's, and yes, maybe the M was not perfect.....BUT.....she had to make the conscious decision to start the A. It was her purposeful choice....

So please don't think anyone here is suggesting that the BS is in any way responsible for their A's. I categorically dismiss that arguement....

TM

Adding my two bits.

I was a selfish, DJing, dishonest [censored] at times thru my marriage. It was MY JOB to STOP THOSE THINGS and PROTECT MY W from THOSE LBs.

But HER CHOICE OF HAVING AN AFFAIR WAS ENTIRELY HER FAULT. She could have addressed the issue ahead of time, which would have scared me enough that I would have gone into MC immediately. SHE CHOSE THE AFFAIR, SHE CHOOSES TO CONTINUE IT, that is not my fault, nor my responsibility. My responsibility is to rework myself into a man that CAN honorably be married, who CAN protect my spouse FROM MY LBs.

What she does in her Affair is HER FAULT and HER RESPONSIBIILITY and the two aspects of this relationship CANNOT be fused. I have my place, she has hers. They are separate issues.

IMHO

David

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>