Tell her that going out to the formal without you makes you feel uncomfortable and you have fears about OM.

Dont expect her to change her mind...let her make that decision and don't demand anything.

tqt-

Yes, I have the ability to laugh at myself....thank goodness, or they'd haul me off to the phunny pharm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Maybe I am good at Plan B....if the B stands for baffled or brain-dead biznitch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If she has the children, it is her reponsibility not yours. Same with your time.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, she is responsible and she is doing the responsible thing by asking David to watch the kids rather than leaving them alone or asking someone else. David is resposible also. He is not off the hook for being a parent just because the kids happen to be with their mother this weekend.

I think it would be a bad decision on Davids part to reject his children. They should never be made to feel like baggage or pawns or used in an effort to inconvenience the other spouse.

David would be shooting himself in the foot by inferring that he has plans and does not want to spend time with his kids. That is exactly what his WW would tell the kids..."Your Dad doesn't want to have you over, he has other plans."

A parent can LB their kids just as easily as they can their spouse.

BA,

From a responsible and logical standpoint you are absolutely correct. However, the BS is dealing with the WS here. If he allows her to get away with this now, it will just be a matter of when it hits and it c/b even harder on he and the children.

BTW, the children are already being used as pawns. Just the fact that the WS put them out and moved out shows she is willing to be irresponsbile. For the BS to enable this will show all (including the children) a very mixed message.

This is hard to do for a loving parent to tell the WS, 'no this is your day to watch the children, per your prior agreement.' It is not a revenge or to stop her from going anywhere, it is to stand by the agreement made. If she chooses to dump the children with another person as a result of her greedy A taking precedence, then it may need to happen and it will strengthen the case for the BS so that later he can have full custody of his children. It is a price to pay but not as high as it c/b later on.

I feel for the children, they are the innocent ones in this A game. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> From a responsible and logical standpoint you are absolutely correct. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that is exactly what David needs to be...responsible and logical. If WW wants to chuck her time with the kids in favor of a night out with OM, David should jump at the opportunity to take them in. They shouldn't be made to feel like a burden.

I am totally against shunning the children in an effort to teach the WS to honor their responsibilty as a parent. If they had honor they would not be a WS in the first place.

I did not advocate shunning the children. I think I have said enough already.

David will make the correct decision for his circumstance.

All the best David.

L.

Hi all. I made my decision.

A few hours at work, and some heavy thinking, and the following came to mind:

Detached is when you make the move from... the feeling of losing your WS, to the feeling that your WS is losing YOU.

I will take the kids tomorrow night, we love to be together anyway, and we can stay up late and catch the late service for church on Sunday.

My only really evil thought has been this: How about I hand her the PBL letter when she shows up in her Kinky Black Dress to drop off the kids just before the dance. Wonder what kinda evening she'd have then.

Something happened tonight. I'm done with the foolishness.

David is not an idiot any longer

A little explanation. Some time ago, my wife suggested a divorce. I think this was when her affair was just starting. She said "We would be best of friends if we could be divorced" I told her I would never speak to her personally again if that were to happen. (This was before I understood MB very well). She was noticeable and visibly upset. I have no idea what could have been her thoughts. But reflection brings with it new insights. She is trying to 'be my friend' by wishing her well in her new exploits. I do not feel angry about this, I feel sad. But my position still stands. I will not be her friend if she abandons her M to me. At the same time, this in no way affects my love of my children. She will have to understand that she cannot have both - she will either have me as best friend and lover and married partner, or as the genetic parent of her children - and it will be the children, not her exploits that I am interested in . My children, until they grow and live on their own, are my responsibility. She is no longer a concern of mine. Let her what she will, it can no longer affect me. She made her choice. I have made mine. I know that there are many others out there with which I can share what I wanted to share with her - and with the tools I've learned, I can have a much better relationship. I look forward to growth. I cannot live like this any longer.

And, since there's no one nearby but the neighbors, I am CRANKING UP MY MUSIC SINCE I HAVEN'T DONE FOR 20 YEARS. Go Dave Matthews!

Love you all

David

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

deleted - will answer later.....

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 03:19 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Orchid, I am not 'abandoning' my children. I know that W loves them very much and that WW has no concern. My DS 17 already knows that it OM shows up, he will TM me and I wil be there w/in 15 minutes to pick up the kids, and will not stand for this to go on. I'm not as weak as I seem to come across in these posts. I post weakness here to GET RID OF IT, so that it does not affect my judgment elsewhere. I know what is best for my kids, and one thing is to know the way I show this is my being there the moment the a****** shows up, to take them back to security. Am I relying on DS17? Damn yes. He needs to learn adulthood soon, and this is a great, if painful, experience. I WILL do the right thing for them.

I rely on your ability to present good sense in a world of chaos. I trust you.

David

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

Geez. I just took my temperature - knew my BP was down. Fever = 104.5. Took an ice cold shower and am drinking ice water (and struggling to keep it down.) It's either stress or the flu. YUK


UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

David

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,

I never implied you abandoned your children. The WS is the one who abandoned your children. The WS will continue to do so. It is sad that both you and the children have to suffer needlessly. Yet it is what is happening.

Sounds like you have the flu. Son had this last weekend and nephew has it this weekend. 104 for anyone is too high. Son's flu ran high temp for 3 days, then went to bad headache with vomiting and then a cold. All in all, it lasted about 1 week.

Lots of chicken soup, medicine and liquids. I'm not a doctor, just a mom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope your kids don't come down with it. It is yucky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

David, you are a good dad. Fighting hard for your family. I really respect that. Unfortunately, you will find that you won't be able to protect your kids 100% like you want to. As you have a plan with your son, that's good. Expect the WS to even try to manipulate that piece. Sad but it c/b true. Just wanted you to be forewarned. When a WS becomes a bad parent due to the A, it is a sad thing to deal with. Real sad.

take care,
L.

L - if you are still on, thank god. Yes, I have the flu - as bad as it gets;, But my question it this:

This is supposed to be Marriage Builders (MB). What happens to a spouse that is ready to give completely. I mean, I'd rather do Plan D than Plan B. Am I to leave MB? I see no hope for my M - the more days pass, the less I see, no matter how hard I try to be neutral, Plan A, Plan B. It feels and seems (from a logical standpoint) gone. I want all of your support - especially in recovery. But what if this is NOT TO BE, which is what I RATIONALY see (I am an ENFP, so rationality is hard for me). I don't truly want that woman back, and she is too far gone to see any diference. I am at a loss. I want freedom, if only to be alone for the rest of my days (something I can't see happening - I'm too 'cuddly' for that) But what am I to do? You've seen all that has happened in the past few months - surely you see my point of view. My kids are primary. I don't care what else happens. But how can I HONESTLY do a PBL when I have lost all feeling?

David

<small>[ February 19, 2005, 04:39 AM: Message edited by: tanelornpete ]</small>

David,
I don't think I've ever posted to you but I follow your thread. I'm very sorry for the situation you are in. I am currently in plan B(since dec 26), a quiet one, so I don't post much because there is notmuch to say. Lately I've been feeling as you do now. I don't want to be married to WH, but then I think of all the times that Orchid has pointed out the difference between WS and W(or H). And I think about this WH not being the person I married or lived with, he's just a stranger to me now. So plan B is good because I don't have to worry or hear things that this WP is doing or saying and I can try to forget he exists, pretend H is dead and hope that he may come back. I've thought about it alot and I haven't found a better solution for a possible recovery than ignoring him while he is a WH. Any contact is so emotionally loaded that I am sure that if I were continuing a relationship as "friends" or just "separated to give him space and time" we would rapidly end up divorced (AO, LB etc could not be avoided by both of us in those circumstances). That's why plan B gives you a chance. I have realized that many people who do get divorced do so because of this interaction and probably regret it later but can't find the way back, or life goes on and it becomes too complicated to think of recovering the marriage. Then there are always the misunderstandings between people where one thinks that the other thinks and therefore..... and many times we are wrong.

Plan B is the way to go. It's hard but I haven't found a better solution.I believe that WH was offended and angry by my not "being his friend". I guess he thought we would separate, he could continue his "unimportant" affair and we would be friends. We are going on 2 months of plan B now, I still hurt as much as the first day so I know I'm still hoping for recovery. But I can live peacefully with my DDs.

I hope this help you.

I also hope your flu is better. Take care

Morning David,

Hey... looking at the times of all your posts... wondering when you're getting some sleep?!?

And does your WW know you have the flu and just how sh!tty you feel?!?

If yes, I vote she goes to *&^%^&! jail for a few days....or so...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've seen all that has happened in the past few months - surely you see my point of view. My kids are primary. I don't care what else happens. But how can I HONESTLY do a PBL when I have lost all feeling?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My simplistic view on that?

Give her the PBL, and then all options are in your court, no matter which way your feelings fall. I'd guess that your defenses (ALL of 'em!) are WAY up right now, and well... who knows how you're going to feel in a few days (emotionally, I mean).

David-

Take a breath.....your nose is probably plugged, so take one through your mouth.

You are just feeling defeated, if your love bank is hemmoraging that badly, then you know it's Plan B time not straight to Plan D, I've heard you talk about her, you love her, you do want your WIFE back.

The only thing I can say is Divorce isn't going to *solve* your problems...you still have kids together, she's still going to be inconsiderate...etc. At least in Plan B you wouldn't have to listen to her jibberish, right?

Pssst, I don't think she wants to lose you.....she's just being a b*tch to try to make you react so she can feel good about her choices.

Give yourself a break from her, and as for Plan B.....think about the Wife she used to be....or if you are having trouble remembering, because of the current trauma...use someone elses, and just substitute your own situations here and there....that's what I did, I sooooo stole TravellinMan's....my own composition sucked HARD...lmao.

You'll be okay David, you're just on your own rollercoaster, and I think it's harder for men....they can't take the ego hits for too long.

-Caren

David,

Caren hit it n the head. If you arefeeling this way it is because your body and mind are starting to protect you. I think it is time that you go to Plan B. No need to go to divorce until after you have removed yourself from the situation and let the dust settle.

So, send that PBL and shut down. It is time you take control of your life.

In His arms.

***My only really evil thought has been this: How about I hand her the PBL letter when she shows up in her Kinky Black Dress to drop off the kids just before the dance. Wonder what kinda evening she'd have then.***

That doesn't sound evil to me. That sounds like a *primo* idea. Get that letter ready right now, and then go take a peaceful nap!
Mulan

David....is her dress "Slinky" or "Kinky"?? LMAO I thought you said "Slinky" before.....because very few people wear kinky dresses to formals....If she is dressing kinky, then just attach the plan B letter to the saftey pin that she'll have through her nose <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> David....is her dress "Slinky" or "Kinky"?? LMAO I thought you said "Slinky" before.....because very few people wear kinky dresses to formals....If she is dressing kinky, then just attach the plan B letter to the saftey pin that she'll have through her nose <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL I meant slinky......the word just slipped out.......

Hey tqt -----

[qb] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Morning David,

Hey... looking at the times of all your posts... wondering when you're getting some sleep?!?

And does your WW know you have the flu and just how sh!tty you feel?!?[/qb</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She knows I have the flu, and yes, I admit, I was up late. I selpt for a while, but couldn't stay asleep = had to get up and do something. MB was the best I could find (= Can't watch TV, the room spins too much.....

Well, she's on her way over to drop them off. Gotta work on that letter.....

ugggg


David