Hello tanelornpete! Turned out to be a matter of rebooting my computer, which I hadn't done in days.

You'll find Plan B a great relief, if you stick to it.

David - what are the arrangements available in your locale for binding, legal separations?

Things like access to property, etc. can be spelled out in these arrangements to prohibit what she has been doing regarding your home.

Without something like this you sadly cannot keep her out of your home.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> David - what are the arrangements available in your locale for binding, legal separations?

Things like access to property, etc. can be spelled out in these arrangements to prohibit what she has been doing regarding your home.

Without something like this you sadly cannot keep her out of your home.

WAT </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WAT - researching that right now - Oregon is a very liberal state - no fault divorces, etc. I'm studying as much as I can on property rights, custody procedures, mediation, etc. The one blessing I have right now is that not one of WW's 'friends', nor is she, taking, nor have they taken, any coursework in divorce ---- I actually have a headstart. And I ain't as stupid as she likes to think I am - I'm quite capable of doing my own in depth research (and I have a LOT of time after say, 1:00 p.m. each night to study...)

David

Keep dark...dont fall again...try not to.

It will only drain all your strength away.

I am waiting and giving it two years. Doing everything i can to save this marriage from my end.

Its not so bad after you have gone through 3 months of plan B...gets better after that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I didnt follow the true plan B...i did not understand what was needed...for most of last year...i did a good 3 months of plan B then broke it and had contact for 1 week. That drag me down and i flew back into plan B and repeated the cycle again a few times. I still think i did an okay with plan B last year because i can count the number of contact i had with WH which means it wasnt that much. However the after effect of each contact did make me feel angry, hurt and sad.

Everytime i had a contact with WH i feel that way. Until oneday i realise that hey...why should i hurt any more...why should i let myself hurt...i can change this situation so i did. I made sure WH could not hurt me anymore by enforcing my boundaries. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I even went back and did a semi plan A back in Oct 04 just to be sure i DID all i can to try and help WH. That was my last lovey dovey contact with WH. It has been a full blown plan B since then and i am lOVING my life... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hang there okay...you will get better

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Question for those of you who have been thru Plan B before - how long does it take before things get better?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like it's already starting to get better.

FYI, it's been two years since my D-Day, and WS moving out two months later, and I still any contact hurtful. WS is still in a selfish, alien spot -- and I don't see any point in communication. Our lawyers do the talking. Why would I want someone like that for a "friend"?

I'm with the others on the roses. She's left, she's made choices, and she's trying to mitigate the effect of those choices by taking your yard with her. She wants no consequences. Tough. Let her go to Wal-Mart.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Question for those of you who have been thru Plan B before - how long does it take before things get better?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like it's already starting to get better.

FYI, it's been two years since my D-Day, and WS moving out two months later, and I still any contact hurtful. WS is still in a selfish, alien spot -- and I don't see any point in communication. Our lawyers do the talking. Why would I want someone like that for a "friend"?

I'm with the others on the roses. She's left, she's made choices, and she's trying to mitigate the effect of those choices by taking your yard with her. She wants no consequences. Tough. Let her go to Wal-Mart. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm with you on that. I put almost 8 years into making a cottage garden out of a bare back yard. I'm not defacing it so she can make herself feel 'homey'.

That's not even the half of it. I'm doing Plan B, but I keep asking myself, after having time to evaluate this M - 'why in the world would I want to go back to that?" So, I have a LOT more evaluation to do.......and maybe some more IC work to be done, 'cause as I look back, I see things a lot differently now than I did even a week ago......

Scary thoughts, huh?

David

David-

Settle down. You're okay......you realize the plans are just guidelines, I mean it's a fantastic program, but don't beat yourself up for having trouble sticking to them, this is your life we're talking about here.

David, you were suicidal the other day due to Plan B........Marriage Builders is not the GOSPEL, if you feel you're not strong enough for plan B scrap it, just be true to yourself, if Plan B's too hard, go back to Plan A for a bit.....don't get so bad you think about suicide ever again..........UNDERSTAND?!?!?!

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CarenMc:
<strong> David-

Settle down. You're okay......you realize the plans are just guidelines, I mean it's a fantastic program, but don't beat yourself up for having trouble sticking to them, this is your life we're talking about here.

David, you were suicidal the other day due to Plan B........Marriage Builders is not the GOSPEL, if you feel you're not strong enough for plan B scrap it, just be true to yourself, if Plan B's too hard, go back to Plan A for a bit.....don't get so bad you think about suicide ever again..........UNDERSTAND?!?!?!

-Caren </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks Caren - great to hear from you! Been praying for ya - you're going thru some really tough times.

I'm fine with plan B - it's getting easier. WW is even making it a lot easier - cancelled my cell phone today, so I got my own number. I'm switching off our group car insurance to my own, went out looking for some cool new dishes for the kitchen.

I'm calmer - getting back to work helped. And so did you.

Take care and stay in touch!

David

David-

Glad I could help, and your prayers and mine combined must be doing something, I feel much better. I said in my other post it hits me about every 10-15 minutes (Thinking about WH) instead of constantly, but when it hits me it's like a wrecking ball.

I'm glad you're doing better.....sounds like you're getting your ducks in a row <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good for you.

Okay hon, well I don't want to tie up the neighbors computer indefinitely. Talk to you later.

-Caren

GREAT, so now WW is coming over to the house bringing a friend with her to pick up the kids. What is this?

I have all the kids' stuff packed and ready to go byy the door, I have no intention of allowing some person (I don't even know who it is) into the house..

What if it is the OM? Do I get to pound him? Oh well, why borrow trouble before it shows up...

Dangit I'm a little tweaked here....

David

She brought a 'friend' so that there wouldn't be any trouble when she picked up the kids. That makes no sense. I'm completely harmless - what could she be thinking?

David

She's not. Thinking, that is. Don't worry. Strange stuff.

Hi David,

Just checking in on you.Plan B is going to get better,just like everyone is saying.Stick to it as much as you can.When I was in it,I felt so safe and secure.I wish I could be in it now for life! In fact,I am going to try.Anyway,enough about me.

Your WW brought a friend either just for show or because she is "afraid" of you,perhaps.Maybe she feels threatened by you since you started Plan B or all trust is obliterated,so,everyone is walking on eggshells.Could be a myriad of reasons.I wouldn't concern myself with that though.Don't try to get into her head.It's a funhouse right now.Stick to what you know and the plans.

Maybe suggest that in the best interest of the children,bringing along a sidekick "bodyguard" each and everytime it's her weekend isn't such a good idea and that it could confuse and scare the kids.Afterall,they will sense and react to her behavior and at the very least,you should be able to pull off anxiety free exchanges so the kids aren't freaked out too.

Hang in there.You'll be alright.

O

If you are in Plan B, it's best not to suggest anything. It will be her fuel for picking a fight, or talking about your shortcomings, or how this is all your fault, etc. You said it all in the PBL.

And, as October said, don't try to read her mind. You're in Plan B so you won't have to think about her thinking. Or lack thereof.

But,if having other's chaperone your exchanges was not discussed or agreed upon,you have to nip that in the bud.

I,for one,would not appreciate my WH having another person I am unfamiliar with or even worse,don't like,coming along to pick up my kids at exchanges.This is about the parents time.I have a feeling your WW would not like it if you did the same.

Whomever your mediator is or however you are in contact with regards to the kids,explain it to her this way,not in person,if you are not comfortable with it.IMHO.

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm completely harmless - what could she be thinking?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey David!

Another one of those "yeah, me too" stories...

Throughout the process of leaving, and in the process of "finishing off" the process of leaving (came back 20 times, 40 phones calls, etc, etc), my WW was absolutely vile, cruel, spiteful and hateful, and... generally terrified about how I would react to it all...

When I asked her "Why are you acting this way... What have I ever done to... "
her response was "You don't know how people are going to react when they've been hurt."

It will probably go down as one of the biggest "Huh?!?!" moments of my life.

Hang in there, bro'!

David,
I just want to check in and give you a little word of encouragement. You are doing great!!

We've all had some pretty rotten days and it's so wonderful that we are all here for each other.
Most of us wouldn't make it otherwise!!

It's been 5 days since you delivered the letter.
I couldn't find the final draft that you delivered, but I did read the original one you wrote and all the suggestions from everyone to tweak the letter.

My concern is that she does not seem to notice the part about the two of you having no contact.
Your original version said this:

I have to remove myself from contact with you – I cannot accept phone calls, text messages, instant messages, or personal visits from you. I have to avoid seeing you and speaking with you. I have to give myself a fresh start in a positive environment.
If you need to contact me, please do so through your parents or Ron – they are the only people for which any trust within me remains.

I don't know if this was in your final letter, but if Cheryl is just barging right in when she picks up the kids, she is not abiding by your wishes.
Do you think she takes the rest of the letter seriously then?
I am not in Plan B, but from all the great responses here from the vets, it just seems SO important to remove yourself from contact no matter what. And, it makes so much sense!!

You have a lot of strength David. I see that every time you lift yourself back up after you've had contact with her these past few days.
That contact though, from a spectators point of view, seems to be what brings you right back down into the depths of sadness.

I think if you give this another week or two, you will be able to have the strength to maintain no contact and I can just see you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> bragging to us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> how you avoided contact and you will be very proud of yourself too!!! Okay? Picture that!! And we will be proud of you too!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have you ever shared MB philosophy with WW? If so, she may now be doing her own version of a plan B...and mirroring your very actions.

My xh , then a WS, would bring either his work partner, or one of his parents shortly after the RO that was placed against my xh expired. It was like he was "making sure" I didn't do anything or be able to claim something wild about him after the restraining order was placed against him.

They're doing something wrong. You want them held accountable. They are afraid of consequence.

Stay dark. Prayers and positive karma to you for healing one way or the other.

Keep the kids calm. Demand from WW that only persons familiar and friendly to kids be allowed to accompany her during pickups to avoid any frustration or worries from kids and from you, their father, having her place kids around basically somebody kids don't know...that makes sense...should make sense to her.

I think she found out what plan B might be...now come on...Did you share MB philosophy with her earlier?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by justpeachy:
<strong> Have you ever shared MB philosophy with WW? If so, she may now be doing her own version of a plan B...and mirroring your very actions.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Early in September, before her A started, I tried to get her to look at the MB website - she said she had no interest in anything I wanted her to read because that was just another way of trying to 'control' her - something I wish I could understand, I also bought HNHN and SAA, and she knows I read them, but I have no idea if she looked at them - highly doubt it - from the comments she makes about 'internet garbage' and 'marriage couselling scams' and that if I'd let her make the rules everything would be 'peachy' (sorry - had to thro that in there) - I don't think she's interested.

I do think she's doing her own version of pplan B, though, which involves get David as backed into a corner as posssible, and see if he reacts.....

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My xh , then a WS, would bring either his work partner, or one of his parents shortly after the RO that was placed against my xh expired. It was like he was "making sure" I didn't do anything or be able to claim something wild about him after the restraining order was placed against him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a big worry of mine, because she could be bringing a friend along just to see if she can provoke a fight and then 'demonstrate' how violent I am - like I'd hurt a flea...

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stay dark. Prayers and positive karma to you for healing one way or the other.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you!

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep the kids calm. Demand from WW that only persons familiar and friendly to kids be allowed to accompany her during pickups to avoid any frustration or worries from kids and from you, their father, having her place kids around basically somebody kids don't know...that makes sense...should make sense to her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah - especially since she still thinks I have no idea where she lives.

David