Oh, and I forgot to answer your last question. I don't think that it's all to bad of an idea..I KNOW that most would disagree. I don't like the spending the night part, but I really think that a mini-Plan A doesn't hurt when you fall off the Plan B wagon, before getting back on! And have that house clean...LOL. We sound way too much alike, DS is not my strong suit either. WhenI went on Wellbutrin to stop smoking, I CLEANED like crazy too!! I do a lot better these days with DS, except for my addiction to computer and MB. But most days I clean purty ok and keep up with laundry a lot better . Oh, And I COOKED real dinners every night this week..well, last nite he helped a lot!! OOPs me, still I am the Stepford wife, in comparison to how I used to be!!

And Caren, you can go back to Plan B faster, ya' know, uh, next time that you fall. Oh yeah, there is not gonna' be a next time, RIGHT?!

I 10000% agree that Plan B sounds like it will REALLY WORK for you! Fastest "real" fix there is, I bet!

jls

Gotta love ya JL, you are just the right mix of sarcastic and knowledgable...LMAO...you sound a lot like me actually.

Oh hell, my house is so clean it looks like someone else lives here..not me. I'm just messy....I'm messy in the way I think, my purse is messy...I am organizationally challenged.

I *asked* WH to spend the night WAY earlier in the week, now I'm thinking Bad Idea...but that's okay, I'll just tell him I changed my mind, it will all go to support this idea that I have other interests...Mwah ha ha. Then when I go to plan B again he's gonna freak out, only this time with TONS of help from God and everyone here, I'm not gonna fold like I have the previous 2 tries....this, of course, is all a theory LMAO. I don't know I'm really getting good at sabotaging myself.

WH called about 7pm and talked to DD10, then he wanted to talk to me. I talked to him, and said "You gonna be here in time for dinner Saturday?"

He said "I dunno...I'm coming right after work."

I said "Okay"

He said "I wasn't gonna stay for dinner, I was gonna just pick up DD10 and DS15"

I said "Negative"

He said "What?"

I said "You told me you were coming here to visit them"

He said "I changed my mind"

I said "Okay, well you're gonna have to take that part up with DS15's aunt"

He said "WHY?!"

I said "Because she only agreed to let him come over if he wouldn't be out of my sight the entire time" (He's been caught smoking pot, been through re-hab...etc, etc)

He said "What am I some kind of bad influence?!"

I said "I dunno, talk to her"

He said "[censored] that, I'm not callin' her"

I said "Okay well, you have to see them here then"

He said "Okay"

I wanted to say HELL yeah you're a bad influence you stupid @$$hole.

He TOTALLY blames me for not being able to see him, I know he does, because the decision for him not to be able to take him was made after I exposed to DS15's Aunt. I told her when I exposed that we were separated and that Mark was having an affair, and then I said, and I quote "I'm not telling you what to do, but I can't guarantee what goes on at Mark's house, so it's up to you what you want to do about DS15 visiting there." She decided against it. And I wasn't implying something off color was going on there....but I would put MONEY on him introducing him to his stupid slut....and that ain't gonna happen if I have anything to do with it.

So, he's semi pissed off at me, Oh Well...better to be pissed off than pissed on, eh?

So anyway....I think that him not being able to see his son is good, it's a direct consequence of him being in an A. His DS's Aunt is actually the most support I've gotten in this mess....she's actually of the opinion that it's immoral....I'm glad someone is.

-Caren

I did actually do *something* for me tonight. I bought 2 boxes of hair color (Nice n' Easy) and colored my hair, I just said 'screw the highlights' and colored right over top of 'em...I couldn't afford the frosting kit anyway. I spent $14 dollars as opposed to $40 (My stylist was doing it at my house for 1/2 of what it cost in the salon, and I still can't afford that--it was 80 bucks at the salon...haven't done that since we separated). I know that I probably shouldn't have spent the money, but I get caught in the crossfire of "You have to find YOU, do things for YOU", and "Don't spend any money, you can't afford to even buy pop."(No these are not voices in my head...LOL)

So anyway, the stupid grey is gone YIPPEEE I do feel better when the grey is gone (No offense graycloud LOL), and I'm sure WH will notice...mwah ha ha. I'm also sure he'll be b*tchin' about me not being able to afford it, but guess what, I am not going to go around looking like a skank because my husband doesn't happen to want me, sorry. And again, since I haven't colored my hair in a few months, he's going to immediately think, holy crap....she's dating!!! LMAO

My DD13 was arguing with me about my tendency to "misdirect" my WH (i.e. giving him the impression I have a boyfriend...I didn't tell her I was doing that, btw.). She said "That's lying Mom." I said "No, I don't lie, I'm not lying to him, I am presenting him with certain facts, and he is drawing his own WRONG conclusion....I have no control over what he thinks is going on." She still wants to argue with me....but then again she's 13 and I'm wrong about everything...LOL.

-Caren

Caren,
Since you stood me up for our trip to Idaho, I'm going to say exactly what's on my mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Uh-oh... I'm going to be 8x12'd and thrown off the boards for this, but it doesn't matter because I'll be in... in... Montana by then.

Can you describe the OW? Appearance, personality, character, cleaning habits (Pledge or Generic?), etc...

I'm not joking... and if you'd rather not, I understand... VERY much understand.

Umm let's see tqt, she's about 5'3ish, long brown hair she does absolutely nothing with, doesn't wear a stitch of make up, I don't have any clue how much she weighs, she's not fat,she's 33, drives a fricken beater of a car....really old/rusty, she just bought her own house this summer, she is the manager of a candy store, she isn't married, she has no kids, ummmm as for cleaning habits, I wouldn't know, I've never been to her house, but per her comments on *my* lazy @$$ house keeping, I assume she does better than I was doing. (Info furnished by WH...thanks honey). I don't know tons of ummmm personal stuff...I know every bit of the financial stuff though.

I have known her (as an aquaintance) for like pushing 7 years, and I would have NEVER seen this mousy little chick as a threat, guess anyone's a threat when your spouse's EN's are going unmet.

Can I inquire why you wanted to know?? LOL

Damn, this hurt to type.

-Caren

Caren:

Just some thoughts:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL So if he wants that kind of serenity, I won't have that for him for about 5 or 6 more years LOL!!!! (When the 13 year old turns 18) Then there will only be one child and she can't really fight with herself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't enable your daughters to be HEATHENS. Help them learn to keep a house clean and organized. Having children is no excuse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway, I digress. I am going to take my wedding ring off.....if he notices I'm gonna tell him I need to clean it. I previously asked him to spend the night Saturday night.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what PLAN are you in? Plus, you are acknowledging your dishonesty. That's not even part of PLAN A to be dishonest. Is it OK to you to outright lie?

Ok. I read on further. You are not in PLAN B. What are you doing? You need some sort of plan.

I am getting frustrated with you. Not mad, not taking it personally...but frustrated. This is serious business here!!

I wonder what Mortarman is thinking about this??

I'm currently out of any plan Mimi. I am going back to plan B after Saturday, I don't know how to get around letting him see DS15 since I am going to have him, and told him he could.

No, it isn't okay with me to outright lie, if I was sure about it, I wouldn't have asked anyone whether or not they thought it was a lie....right? I was raised to believe that "Omitting" facts wasn't lying.....I began to question that, therefore, I posted my thread on it.

I'm sorry that you feel frustrated Mimi...I haven't done ANYTHING, nothing has changed since I talked to Mortar and you except that I am throwing ideas up here.....that is not to say they are set in stone, I was looking for advice.

I am not of weak moral fiber, and as I said, I previously believed omission was not a lie, but I can see how it can be construed as dishonest, and I don't wish to be thought of as dishonest either.

I am sure I am should be in some plan, so I guess it's mini plan A, except I'm not going the SF route again, and I'm not going to fawn all over him like I had been doing in Plan A.....(i.e. rubbing his feet....taking care of him)mostly because, frankly I don't fricken feel like it. I am going to be friendly and cheerful, but that's about it, and I had asked him to spend the night about a week ago, and I already said that it was a bad idea. I wasn't thinking....yes I know that's a shocker, I do that alot.

I get a lot of grief for laughing...I don't understand that....it's good to laugh, and this situation is fricken ridiculous, so if I didn't laugh at how outrageous this all seems, then as I have said before, I'd cry.

So, I don't know what Mortar thinks of what I put up there, as I haven't done anything about it.

I realize that my posts are irratic, but they are what I am feeling/thinking at the time, I am sorry if anyone finds this offensive or is put off by it, but that's me.....good bad or ugly, that's me.

-Caren

Sorry, forgot to comment on the daughters being heathens thing. My house has been spotless for a week solid, and I have been making them pitch in and making them pick up after themselves, when I said they were heathens I meant that they are girls, they are 3 years apart in age and they argue, they will argue about whether or not the sky is blue.....that's really that nature of the beast I recall doing the same thing with my sisters....they start getting older and they have their own opinions on everything....and when they get bored they do things intentionally to make the other one scream....that's what I meant. A house with 2 teenagers (19 year old stays above the fray most of the time) and one pre teen is not the most serene place you'd ever visit...it's just not, and it's never gonna be, they're kids, not robots.

-Caren

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I get a lot of grief for laughing...I don't understand that....it's good to laugh, and this situation is fricken ridiculous, so if I didn't laugh at how outrageous this all seems, then as I have said before, I'd cry.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Caren... it's ok to cry...you know that.

But, for about 12,000 different reasons...
please don't ever stop laughing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Some more of my thoughts to you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't know how to get around letting him see DS15 since I am going to have him, and told him he could.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish you could develop more self-confidence. I sit back and watch you talk yourself out of things. Notice you say above "I don't know how". That is not the case. I have faith in you that you could come up with A PLAN for him to see the son without seeing you. MM tells you about me. I had to come up with all kinds of ways to make sure my WH didn't see me during PLAN B. I would hide myself during my son's activities, make sure I wasn't home when he picked my son up. The boy is a teenager. You don't have to be there. I know that it seems that I am hard on you but I'm routing for you. I want you to succeed at this and part of succeeding is working on the "I don't know"/ "I can't do it" mindset.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> am sorry if anyone finds this offensive or is put off by it, but that's me.....good bad or ugly, that's me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you keep thinking that I find you to be offensive? Where is this coming from? I get frustrated but not offended. Frustrated because I have higher expectations for you than you may have for yourself. That's probably more of a reflection of my problem than yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">one pre teen is not the most serene place you'd ever visit...it's just not, and it's never gonna be, they're kids, not robots.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have two teenage boys. Talk about the potential for being heathens!! Along with the other changes in my life, I've begun to expect them to respect me and my house. I have rules, limits and boundaries. No one will disrespect me anymore. When my son is home, no loud music, shoes off in the house, etc. That's the ACOA stuff, being the peacemaker, allowing others to walk all over us, accepting inappropriate behavior. I'm not doing it anymore. That's how I enabled my H's A! No one will walk all over me again. ON MY SOAPBOX! SORRY!

In regards to laugter, I encourage that. What I am saying is to laugh at what is funny and cry about what is sad. Be open to all of your emotions!

Caren,

You know what I think. I have been saying the same things over and over for the past two months. When YOU decide that you can do this, then I believe the end of this mess will begin.

Again, Mimi and others (including myself) are NOT attacking you. But we had to learn the hard way that this is the way most BSs need to be helped...thru direct, clear and concise talk. The BSs world is filled with WS fog-babble. Many times they can go a whole day without hearing or seeing truth. So, when a BS comes here, they need the naked truth. No bows. No whistles. Just the facts.

Was Mimi any different? Nope. We heard her whine for weeks (you know its true Mimi! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) about how she couldnt do Plan B, that we didnt know her husband, that her situation was different. And even as she started Plan B, she still had her doubts and frantic posts about how this was goingto end her marriage. Guess what? It didnt. But she needed us to be frank with her, a cold glass of water to the face. And say "wake up...stop believing the addicted WSs fog-babble and get down to reality here."

I may sound all tough here and like I am sure of myself, but that is only because I am now on the otherside of this. Go back to my threads and see what I said and did. How many times I failed at Plan B. Just Learning, Asylyne and others were kicking my butt almost hourly. And many times it sounded like I was disappointing them, that they were so frustrated with me that they were going to stop helping me.

But the reality was that it wasnt they were going to stop helping me...it was that I had to learn that they werent going to change their minds. That if I wanted help, if I wanted to get out of this, then it was time I listened to that help. Onc I did, it made all the difference.

So, now you go thru the same thing we did. We are not being tough on you because you are awful at this. We all were JUST like you. Look at some of my posts to Mimi and how "frustrated" I was with her. But the frustration comes from that we do care, and we know the truth. And we want you to just have some faith and latch onto it. A year from now, you will be like us...and being tough to new BSs on here.

So, again...you know what you need to do...that is if you want to follow the MB principles here and make thru like we did. Otherwise, you can continue to do it your way...just as we did for awhile. Of course, we lengthened our pain for no reason.

So, we are here...but understand the message isnt going to change. So...gues who has to change?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

In His arms

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Okay I'm really upset, I just spent 10 minutes typing a reply and then the site told me I wasn't signed in, "Oh sorry, your post is gone." Arrrgh.

Okay. I don't feel like I'm being attacked, I understand what you're saying Mortar, and I know that you and Mimi are right. I am not disputing the rightness of what I'm doing.

Maybe it's the fact that I put absolutely everything down here on when I post. I put every thought I have down here, I have gotten myself in deep doo-doo when left to my own devices. So I put every thought that seems rational at the time down, so that someone will say "Ummm Caren...that's the dumbest idea you've had yet", if I don't post it I'll DO it, does that make sense?? I will convince myself that is what I should do, if I don't put it up here..... so people think that I'm a looney, and their not far off base.

I am an open book, ask me any question, I'll tell you the honest answer. That's just me, I'm not embarrassed by anything, I'm not afraid to tell the truth about anything....What you see is what you get with me. I suppose that's where people start thinking my story sounds outlandish, it's probably not normal to put every thought down on a message board, Oh well, I'm not normal anyway.

As far as following your advice, can you see that I want to?? Can you tell from what I write that I am by far, my own worst enemy?? This is the most difficult experience I've EVER had, and I know I'm behaving badly, and I know that I should listen to you, I KNOW you know what you're talking about, I really do.

I am horrible with follow-through. I think something is a good idea, and I start it....ZERO FOLLOW THROUGH. I have a hard time putting two rational thoughts together most days....this A, and the subsequent emotional problems I've been having make me not think about things that should be a priority. For example, today I took DD19 to her dermatologist appt., after she went in I went to the ATM machine to get the money for the co-pay, the stupid machine ATE MY CARD!!! So I go into the bank, they say they don't service the machine and I'd have to call my bank, since any cards that it keeps like that, the company destroys. I'm like WONDERFUL. So anyway, point of the story is....if I don't do something about this I'm not going to have any money this weekend for anything..not food, not anything, so this should be top priority for me, right?? Well I was here for probably an hour and a 1/2 had forgotten all about it, until something made me remember. That's not normal!!! That should have been number one...but it gets buried somehow.

I've noticed that in the last week, I don't feel like I just got my @$$ kicked constantly anymore, that must be the anti-D's, I have to stop what I'm doing and think about WH and OW to get that feeling. I suppose that's progress. And in my defense, I the anti-D I was taking for the previous 6 months didn't do jack, so I was still major league depressed while attempting Plan B....maybe now that the Wellbutrin has kicked in I'll be okay in Plan B.

Please don't give up on me, I don't set out to be aggravating, I really don't. And after this weekend I will try to go back to Plan B.

Now, tell me again. Since I seem to have the need to be spoon fed, what EXACTLY do I do to get back into plan B?? (I've actually almost called it plan B to WH....that would be fun to explain) Do I send him another copy of the original letter? Do I make some kind of cover letter, or some other type of letter saying that I will be reinstituting my original requests?

Can someone just draw me a picture?

-Caren

YOUR PLAN:

Develop self-confidence. PLAN B will help you with this!

I'm going to quote how often you put yourself down and then respond.

Caren said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Oh, well, I'm not normal anyway. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is not acceptable to call yourself abnormal any longer. You are normal for a person who has a WH. You sound just like I did, according to MM, and I'm not abnormal!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am horrible with follow-through </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is no longer OK to describe yourself as being horrible at anything. Replace that thought with, "I do the best that I can do given these circumstances". Plus, do like I do. Given my high anxiety level due to PTSD, I carry a pad around with me all the time to write down the things I need to do. My list is always there in front of me, on my desk at work, in the car,etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't set out to be aggravating </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No one called you aggravating. Where did this come from?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> EXACTLY WHAT DO I DO TO GET BACK INTO PLAN B? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A put down because you know what you need to do. It's really simple in terms of the logistics. Write another letter with your conditions. GO DARK!!

oops...double post

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

and another one....

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Okay....I didn't realize I put myself down, I suppose I do that before anyone else has a chance to, not that anyone here does, it's just habit I assume.

Self confidence, I vaguely remember having that at some point in time, it eludes me now. I hope Plan B helps that, I guess it couldn't really make it any worse.

It doesn't make any sense, it confuses me so much, I know that I'm pretty, I know that I'm built cute, I know that I'm intelligent (I feel conceited typing that), why does that not add up to being self confident? It should. It should as easily as 1+1=2, shouldn't it? It has to be the indentity thing, and once I figure that out, I won't let it ever happen again, I won't be defined by my marriage or my children.

Thank you Mimi, it's going to be tough to not criticize myself, I caught myself almost doing it several times just typing these couple of paragraphs, I've just done it for so very long.

*sigh* okay, I'll start drafting some sort of cover letter, and then give him the initial letter again with it, because my printer is broken and so I'll be handwriting any letter I'd give him. I want to mail it, I don't even want to face him for the 3rd time in as many weeks and give him the same letter again.

So, I should look for this to take a lot longer this time, shouldn't I? Because he's gonna think I'm bluffing.

I guess there's a part of me that's afraid to find all these things out, to strike out on my own and find out who I am, because if I do that...will I even still love my husband? I don't know.

-Caren

Mimi is right about the self-confidence thing. But let me take that a bit further, okay?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe it's the fact that I put absolutely everything down here on when I post. I put every thought I have down here, I have gotten myself in deep doo-doo when left to my own devices. So I put every thought that seems rational at the time down, so that someone will say "Ummm Caren...that's the dumbest idea you've had yet", if I don't post it I'll DO it, does that make sense?? I will convince myself that is what I should do, if I don't put it up here..... so people think that I'm a looney, and their not far off base.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to use this as a place to blow steam and vet things. A sanity check, as it is. No one is saying for you to stop doing that. believe me, most of us know the difference between vetting and following off the horse. So, keep posting everything if that helps you. I am not on your case about what you post necessarily. If you look back at my posts, I have concentrated mostly on what you are DOING!! Or not doing. Because after you unload here, and get advice...you need to regroup...and then continue to do the right things. So, please do not think anyone is saying not to post what you are thinking or feeling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as following your advice, can you see that I want to?? Can you tell from what I write that I am by far, my own worst enemy?? This is the most difficult experience I've EVER had, and I know I'm behaving badly, and I know that I should listen to you, I KNOW you know what you're talking about, I really do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Remember, I have been where you are. I have done what you have done. I have felt what you are feeling. So, do I understand that you want to do this right? Of course I do!! I would not continue helping you if I thought that you didnt want to do it. Why help someone that doesnt want to be helped, right? And I was also my own worst enemy. Look, you need to get something straight right here and now. Yo uare not unique in this. What you are going through is as painful as if you had one of your children die. And this is twice as confusing as that. You need to cut yourself a break!! You have fallen at times...you WILL fall again! Count on it. To use a baseball metaphor...your success will not be accomplished by homeruns, but instead by singles between several strikeouts.

Actually, baseball is a great metaphor. What sport or enterprise do you get paid millions of dollars and end up in the hall of fame, for FAILING 7 out of 10 times? The greatest hitters of all time hit on .300, which means they got out 7 out of ten times. How do you perform in an environent of failure? You cut yourself a break! If you strike out, you know you are going to get another at-bat. So, figure out what went wrong in THAT at-bat, and try to improve and correct mistakes.

You have seen my post several times...SETTLE DOWN!! Slow down. Be methodical. On a football field, you see guys bouncing around on the sideline getting fired up. They have that luxury because they dont have to deal with failure like baseball players do. But, look at a team in the dugout waiting for their turn at bat. Are they bouncing around getting frantic? Nope. They are methodical, concentrating, anticipating what is going to happen, what pitch the pitcher will throw, etc. I liken it to an ice covered river. On top, stillness...no movement. Underneath? Raging power that will be unleashed when the time is appropriate.

So, take a deep breath. And then figure out what went wrong. Then figure out what your plan is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am horrible with follow-through. I think something is a good idea, and I start it....ZERO FOLLOW THROUGH. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AAHHHHHH! Now here is something you SHOULD be doing in Plan B. Something that has NOTHING to do with your marriage or your WH. You should use this time in Plan B to work on this. Find out what to do from counselors, books, etc for someone that cannot focus or follow thru. Then work on that. What did we tell you? Once you go to Plan B, it isnt about the WH. That is a side issue. it is about you recovering your life, settling it down fro mthe chaos of the affair...and using that time alone to get things done and get your act together. You should be so busy working on you that you almost forget you have a husband when you are in Plan B.

When I was in Plan B, I had filled so many days with Bible study meetings, kid stuff, counseling for me, counseling for the kids, and extra job (just to bring in a few bucks to pay off soem debt...and to keep me busy). I also ordered books like a crazy nut and have read everything about the issues I needed to deal with. I probably have close to a $1000 in books over the last almost 4 years. Of course, I could have saved some money and just checked them out of the library!!

But during that time, I found myself so busy working on me, that sometimes when my wife called to talk to the kids, I had realized that I had barely even thought about her in days. I thought maybe I was falling out of love with her. Of course, that wasnt true, as was proved when she showed up on my doorstep wanting reconciliation. But the point is that I kept so busy, the affair lost its power. And, I actually did some things that has helped me!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a hard time putting two rational thoughts together most days....this A, and the subsequent emotional problems I've been having make me not think about things that should be a priority. For example, today I took DD19 to her dermatologist appt., after she went in I went to the ATM machine to get the money for the co-pay, the stupid machine ATE MY CARD!!! So I go into the bank, they say they don't service the machine and I'd have to call my bank, since any cards that it keeps like that, the company destroys. I'm like WONDERFUL. So anyway, point of the story is....if I don't do something about this I'm not going to have any money this weekend for anything..not food, not anything, so this should be top priority for me, right?? Well I was here for probably an hour and a 1/2 had forgotten all about it, until something made me remember. That's not normal!!! That should have been number one...but it gets buried somehow.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, cut yourself a break. This emotional turmoil will cause you to act like this. I left my credit card in the copying machine at Kinkos. I had to do without money the whole weekend, and wait for another week to get a new card after I cancelled that one at my bank. See? YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE IN THIS!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've noticed that in the last week, I don't feel like I just got my @$$ kicked constantly anymore, that must be the anti-D's, I have to stop what I'm doing and think about WH and OW to get that feeling. I suppose that's progress. And in my defense, I the anti-D I was taking for the previous 6 months didn't do jack, so I was still major league depressed while attempting Plan B....maybe now that the Wellbutrin has kicked in I'll be okay in Plan B.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it will. The ADs I used definitely helped me to finally do Plan B right.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please don't give up on me, I don't set out to be aggravating, I really don't. And after this weekend I will try to go back to Plan B.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not aggravated. I am not even disappointed. I just know from being on this side of things that you are so close...and if I could come into your world and push you in the right direction, I would. But I cant. You have to do this. This is your test. God wants you to trust Him and walk with Him. Only then does He show you His miracles.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, tell me again. Since I seem to have the need to be spoon fed, what EXACTLY do I do to get back into plan B?? (I've actually almost called it plan B to WH....that would be fun to explain) Do I send him another copy of the original letter? Do I make some kind of cover letter, or some other type of letter saying that I will be reinstituting my original requests?

Can someone just draw me a picture?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know the overall answer. The PBL goes in his hand. And then you go dark. Do you add a little note explaining that this is not going to work, that yo uare losing your love for him as long as he is with OW? That you HAVE TO have NC with him until he does what is in the letter? Sure. No problem with that.

But Caren...when you do this, have your plan ready. Make sure you anticipate his every move. And have a plan when something happens you didnt anticipate.

You have Christ in you. You have the power to do this. You also have all the answers. I nreality, you will find that you dont need me, or Mimi or anyone else to tell you what is right. You have the God of this universe inside you with all of the answers. If you just trust Him, and follow Him...you will find out very quickly how powerful and how strong Caren really is!!

In His arms.

You posted at the same time I did, so I wanted to answer your additional questions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Self confidence, I vaguely remember having that at some point in time, it eludes me now. I hope Plan B helps that, I guess it couldn't really make it any worse.

It doesn't make any sense, it confuses me so much, I know that I'm pretty, I know that I'm built cute, I know that I'm intelligent (I feel conceited typing that), why does that not add up to being self confident? It should. It should as easily as 1+1=2, shouldn't it? It has to be the indentity thing, and once I figure that out, I won't let it ever happen again, I won't be defined by my marriage or my children.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You ever been to the circus? Ever seen the elephants in their holdings areas? Did you see any fences? Nope. What was holding them in place? They usually had a small chain attached to a peg in the ground and wrapped around one ankle. You think that is holding that elephant there? No way. That elephant can pull that out of the ground in a second and run off. So, why dont they?

BECAUSE THEY DONT KNOW THAT THEY CAN!! You see, when they were smaller, they couldnt pull that peg out. They tried, but it never would budge. So, in their mind, they believe that peg is stronger than it actually is. They dont know their own power. Thus, they stay right there.

We are like that with Satan. When we werent saved, we had no power to fight Satan's destruction in our lives. So, we grow up thinking that we cant do this, or we cant do that. But one day, we ask Jesus into our lives...and He comes to live inside of us. Now, just like the adult elephant, we have the power to do anything. But our past still shackles us. We still believe that peg has power over us. We still believe our faults, our sins, our weaknesses have power over us and we have now way of doing the things we should. BECAUSE WE DONT KNOW ANY BETTER! We have the power of God in us. Satan has no power over you Caren. You know it intellectually. But you still let your past, the heathen Caren, influence who you are. You are not that person. You are so much more powerful than you once were.

Yes, 1+1=2. But in the Christians case, 1+1=1. Christ plus Caren is a majority!! Christ plus Caren is the most powerful woman to ever walk this planet.

You see...this affair, where you are at now...is not your fault. But God sure the heck is using it for your good. He wants you to realize that the peg can nolonger hold you. As a matter-of-fact, the peg isnt even there anymore. You are just imagining it.

This whole thing is about you and Him, Caren. Cant you see that? He wants to make you become someone that was never possible without all of these trials. He wants a woman that loves Him and trusts Him, and is so powerful, that Earth and Hell cannot stand in her way. You have that...you just dont KNOW that you have it!

One last note. This was the same thing I had to learn over my mess. I actually now thank God for them mess because I know that my relationship with him would never have been what it is now without this. And I wouldnt have the confidence and power I do if it wasnt for this journey. But, even with that, I sometimes have doubts. I have my faith tested by God. Case-in-point? At the custody hearing back in December, as the judge started reading out his verdict, he started with an admonishment to both me and my wife. As he was doing so, I began to doubt that I was going to get custody. I had trusted God all thru the pre-trial and all thru the trial. But now, as it was ending, Satan was whispering in my ear. Telling me "He isnt going to come thru." I began to write the word NO and trace it over and over on a pad of paper in front of me. It was me saying "Nope, I am not going to get the kids." I did that for about 15 seconds, when I caught myself. It was as if God Himself had whispered in my ear (probably did) the words "Do you trust Me?" I looked down on that paper and saw that "NO" and realized that I had failed to trust Him right as this thing was coming to a head. And while the judge was saying..." because of all of this, I am awarding primary physical custody to...", I began to scratch thru that NO and said over and over in my mind "That is a lie!! He will come thru. I do trust you." And as I said that in my mind, the judge issued these words...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"...I am awarding primary physical custody to the father, with the mother to pay child support as outlined by law."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You could hear a gasp in the courtroom from everyone, including my attorney, as he said that. Everyone except me. It was no surprise to me. Because 5 seconds earlier, I reminded myself of who I am, and how powerful my God is. I even keep that piece of paper mounted on my desk, as a reminder. I see that scratched out "NO" everyday.

God is using this so that as you go on in life, as you doubt...you will remember what HE did here. I didnt do anything in that courtroom. Except trust Him. He did all the heavy lifting.

Your answers lie there, Caren.

In His arms.

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Caren,

WOuld you email me please?

Enchantedlady11@yahoo.com

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> guess there's a part of me that's afraid to find all these things out, to strike out on my own and find out who I am, because if I do that...will I even still love my husband? I don't know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*sigh* YOU ARE GETTING IT!!!!

MM and I are so on the same page:

I had just spoken to you on your other thread about the importance of thinking and acting.

I was in your place a few years ago and developed a sense of myself so strong that I can't even remember the past!!! I continue on a road to self-discovery. Guess what, I really love my H now because I have chosen to love him. I am not dependent on him anymore. Anytime I start getting anxious about him being with the OW again. I say to myself SO WHAT! I CAN MAKE IT WITHOUT HIM! Nothing like the person MM says that I used to be. Also, guess what? HE HAS CHOSEN TO LOVE ME, TOO!!! We're more "in love", whatever that means, than ever.....