For background info. please read thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=036838

I need some help. My WH and I have our first meeting with MC tomorrow night. I am all anxious about it, because I don't expect it to go well for me.

WH wants the meeting to be on "how to best go about separating" - meaning how to make me best collaborate with his plan to leave me, and then be free to see OW.

I am not convinced that we have given our R a shot and will ask him to consider first a 2-3 months attempt at reconciliation - with both of us deciding that separation is the only route to go.

I don't know what the MC will say/do seeing we are at opposite ends. He wants me to collaborate (and I guess if I don't will justify him doing what he needs to do - go off and leave in the worst circumstances - and blaming me for not wanting to collaborate). But I don't feel right in just "going along" with his plan, and really do feel we are "brushing off" our R.

I know this is easy for me to say, I am not the one in an A, and I guess it is easy for me to suggest to put the OW on the "backburner", as H calls it, while we attempt at reconciliation, besides the fact that his "heart" would not be in it.

We don't know the MC, so don't know what he will suggest under the circumstances.

If I stand up to my H, it may actually be the first time seriously doing so. He likes having his way, and it's hard to predict his reaction. Actually, I am worried about his reaction. Acting this way doesn't seem like a Plan A, which I would like to be doing. He says I don't take him, or his feelings for the OW seriously, and is very frustrated. He looks like he is getting fed up with the whole thing, and ready to drop me like a hot potato. If so, should I just let it go? Should I "fight" and by doing so, make it worst? I do feel not going for this meeting is just prolonging the whole thing, or somehow wanting to avoid hearing what I don't want to hear.

I'd appreciate your comments.

Lunamare

Luna - like I said in your other thread, your husband is living an utter fantasy of what he thinks divorce will be like.

He's also got you terrified that if you don't play along with this and do everything he wants, he will "leave you" for good.

But he clearly doesn't want that. He wants both Luna sitting at home waiting for him AND to keep his girlfriend, and he has deluded himself into thinking that this will work just fine.

He is bullying you, Luna. You are afraid to stand up to him because of his threat that he will leave you for good. And as long as he can scare you like this, he will hold all the cards and you will go on living in fear and feeling utterly powerless.

He wants to move out and go live with OW? Okay. Give it to him. He asked for it. Watch his fantasy life crash and burn. This is the ONLY thing that will ever get through to him. There is nothing you can say that will even register. He's got to find this one out for himself.

You need Plan B. Now. Just my humble opinion.
Mulan

Hello again Luna. I am so sorry to hear about your anxiety attack and I would like to wish you well under these terrible conditions.

To address your questions...

1. Have you considered trying to get a counseling session with Willard Harley? His counseling is over the telephone apparently. At least this would take the ünknown out of the skills of the counselor. Also, he specializes in helping couples in this situation.

2. I understand you wanting to "give it your all" and wanting to fight for your marriage. From what you have indicated about your WH's attitude maybe you could try a "GLORIFIED PLAN B" ?

Here is what I mean....

Use the MC to state your case: first state that you know that he does not want to keep trying (people listen best when you validate their feelings), then concede why you can understand how he would feel this way (i.e. articulate those areas where you feel you did not meet his needs) admit those things that you did "wrong" in the marriage.

Then, elaborate, how this A has given you a "reality shock"--you have been reading, researching, soul searching and believe you NOW have the understanding and the tools to meet his formerly unmet needs. Then tell him how much you really love him and want to try.

THEN, leave the ball in his court. Don't fight, don't commit any LB's. If he says he wants to leave still, then you have not lost anything.

But you have had a chance to "state your case". (YOu have essentially told him the first few paragraphs of the PLan B letter). At least you will know in your own heart that you didn't just concede...and stood up for what you want.

THEN, if he still doesn't want to try...throw him for a loop and a GO TO PLAN B letter.

HERE"s why:

First, you said your husband is not used to you standing up to him. Implementing a Plan B is likely to SHOW him that you have changed. (Giving credibility to your "stating your case" in MC).

Second, an effective Plan A only really works if both parties are willing to try.

Finally, you said your husband told you that he chooses the OW. Sometimes it takes having to lose something before you understand how much it means to you. This is interesting, however, since he has never had to GO WITHOUT you. So he doesn't really know what he is choosing. Also, he has never really "Had" the OW, because it has been an A--which by definition is NOT a REAL relationship.

All that said, read, read, read on Plan B, before doing it as it is really important to stay in Plan B once it has been implemented.

What are your thoughts?

<small>[ February 21, 2005, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Freefromlies ]</small>

For your visit to the MC, use the philosophy of Plan A, without Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgements, (selfish demands), etc., however....

Be honest and straightforward. Speak of your desire to apologize for your lack of meeting WH's EN's in the past, and emphasize your desire to do so in the future. Do not accept any blame for WH's actions regarding the A.

One additional note: Many "so called" Marriage Counselors are "set up" to enable an amicable divorce, with everyone being buddies for the good of the kids, blah, blah, blah. If this is obvious from the get-go, let the councelor know, in no uncertain terms, it is NOT your desire to pursue a divorce without exploring all options to reconcile. You'll be able to pick up on this pretty quickly.

Remember, WH is in the FOG, and most of what he speaks of will be to defend his "freedom", his "soulmate", the "awful" marriage your's has become, and all that nasty spew that ALL WS's have uttered. Don't even be surprised it he openly criticizes you and your "lack of meeting his needs" or "lack of efforts in the marriage", or openly attacks any of your skills or personality. This will be his time to "prove" to the MC that "it's over", and no time or effort should be given to try to salvage the marriage.

Brace yourself, and know in advance it's all FOGSPEAK. It could be very hurtful for you to hear all of this, but that what the WS handbook requires of them. Put on a coat of emotional armor, and let him have his 15 minutes of WS fame. If your MC is any good, they will try to control this by asking pointed questions, perhaps a little of Orchid's "fog-babble".

Think positive, and absorb all that's said and done, and bring the info back to the forums and we'll help you sort it out.

Best wishes,
SD

My thoughts,

I have been discussing with H on how will we approach our MC meeting, and have actually been doing what Freefromlies suggests "state my case": asking him to consider putting distance on OW (and to stop projecting himself in the future with her) long enough to put some focus on our R in order to really see if it can go anywhere - clear all doubts that nothing can really be done. At the same time, clearing admitting that this would be very difficult for him to do under the circumstances. This would mean a 180 turn for him.

So, my cards are already on the table as to what I would like to be doing with the MC. He may want to also, but at this point doesn't see how he will be able to do it (stop imaging himself in the future with OW because that's where he is at now).

I haven't beeing doing any LBs, other than of course disagreeing on what direction our R needs to go! HA HA!

This is where the anxiety is coming from. H is not giving any real indication if in fact he is seriously reconsidering. He can't see where it would go - waste of time just to end up at the same point - doesn't feel he can do it and worries about being in "bad faith" and "letting me hope" where he thinks there is no hope, and therefore further hurting me.

I can't say the obvious: that this may also take away from his feelings for the OW - because he wants it to last as long as possible even at the highest cost.

Bottom line: I think because our adolescent (14 yrs old) is living his "first love", Dad's jealous and wants to relive the feeling of "first love" all over again. Maybe it's something he never really got over apparently. This is one of the things I am holding back from saying - the obvious - as it would be a very big LB, but I am sure he knows it himself - and at this point H doesn't care what he risks to relive it again - he says he is prepared to be wrong (and on on on)seeing himself as being very romantic, sacrificing everything for LOVE - the only problem - I am here and I am bursting his bubble and am not buying into it. But that's beside the point. As you can see, I am doing some venting, and not making much sense at times.

What do you think if I said: you may be ready to move on, but this is going to fast for me and I am not ready to go through "separation" discussions yet, (which means he can move out - because I can't stop him - but without my help), and we will have to work from CHAOS.

I think this creates a problem for him. He intended to leave, yes, but with full collaboration from me. Now he would need to consider continuing on with his plan, but without my help. It's not exactly how he had planned it. What I don't know is if this is enough for him to take a step back or not. That's where some of the anxiety is coming from. I am not used to this "quick sand" under my feet.

I am really happy to have found this forum, it helps "pass" the time, or like something to hold on to, and learn some things at the same time.

Thanks everybody. I am seeing a lot of pain and a lot of strenght and courage, but what we all want is a little love.

Lunamare

Luna - if your H insists he wants to leave, don't you lift a finger to help him. DO NOTHING. Make it entirely up to him to do this if that's what he wants. Tell him that you are under NO obligation to help break up the family. If he wants to do that, he will have to do it on his own.
Mulan

To Mulan, Freefromlies and ShatteredDreams,

A special thank you to the three of you for taking the time to support me and advise me.

I will keep you up to date on how it goes tonight. I am just so scared not knowing how it might go, and not knowing how I am going to handle it. I feel so fragile and yet I will need to be strong. There seems to be so much at stake - my life, my future, my foundation. How could I have been so naive to think that I would never be in this position. I feel stupid and silly right now. Questioning all my values. Can I count on anything? Anybody? I am full of sadness. That's the only thing that comes to my mind. So so sad.

Lunamare

Oh Luna, your post brought tears to my eyes!

I want to add that my first post about Plan B should only apply if your WH does indeed leave to be with the other woman and follows through with his threats of rejecting your marriage completely.

From what you have said-he still sounds like Plan A may work. He sounds like he is just going through withdrawl (withdrawl from the feeling the A gave him), he is not completely rejecting you or he would have packed his bags and simply left you a note, right?

Instead, he is trying to just get your blessing, let you keep meeting the needs you were meeting before (such as domestic support, etc)and get the fix the A was giving him.

You mention that you are afraid of tonight and don't know what you will say--here is one idea.

It may be that one of your husbands emotional needs is admiration--since he likes the "romantic love" feeling--maybe you could think of all the things you admire about him, which may be hard to do under the present circumstances--but if you think back to what made you fall in love with him and what he has done that you admire over the years and what you still admire about him--it will give you something positive to say in the MC. And how can he argue with that, eh?

Finally, if you are short on courage before you go in--think of the strong love that you have for your children, the person you want to be for children--maybe even bring a picture of your family--and visualize gaining strength from your love for them!

Good luck tonight! (Oh, and ONE MC meeting is not going to determine the outcome of this problem. So try not to feel like all of the weight is on that one hour!!!)

Hello,

Our first MC meeting took place. I stated my position: wanting to try and work on our R, H said he could not see how this would be possible when his heart would not be in it - he's in love with the OW, and cannot understand how I can ask him to consider it - he feels hurt, not validated about what he is feeling. He is prepared to meet with MC again, to see where we went wrong!

I am totally devasted! When by ourselves, I asked him to reconsider, totally broke down. He said he was feeling helpless with all the pain I was feeling.

I don't know what to do. He is still at home. Do I Plan A given the circumstances? He wants to be friends, he wants a good relationship between us for the sake of the kids, he wants me to let him "go". He wants to work on a "new love" and not necessarily work at giving a second chance to and "old love".

I don't know what to do. I do love him very much, and he says that if that's so, I should let him go to do what he wants.

I decided I would try to make life as pleasant as I could at home ex. stop crying, stop feeling sorry for myself, go along with his plans, and try not to do more damage with my "please reconsider requests".

I feel so stupid. My reasoning is if I ask often enough he will say "yes". HA HA You can all go ahead and laugh at me. I am being totally ridiculous.

I don't know where I will get the energy to move on. I am trying hard to look at the bright side and tell myself: look at what you have and not what you don't have, I read about doing the 180 - meaning behaving just about the opposite of what I could see myself doing - but I am kidding myself. I am hurting real bad. How can I be chirpy and I am sad; how not to cry when all I feel like doing is crying. I feel empty inside. I feel like giving up.

Sorry for being so down, but that's where I am.

Lunamare

This is all pretty standard. A few weeks after D-Day my FWH and I went to a MC. He told her that he did not want to work on the relationship and wanted to move out, he was still seeing OW. I was pregnant with our first child at the time. So three weeks after d-day he moved out. I Plan A'ed all summer but also started moving on with my life. Whether he came home or not I was going to survive and be a wonderful mother for my daughter. Don't get me wrong there were horrible ups and downs, but I got through it with the help of my friends here. A few weeks before my due date my FWH asked to come home. Since then we have slowly been rebuilding our relationship. We have started with MC again, this time both of us want to work on the R.

MC rarely works while the WS is still in the A. All the stuff your WH said is typical. He is following the script. You can't make him stay, if he wants to leave he will. Often that is the quickest way to end the A.

We have all been where you are today. Please know that it does get better, one way or another. Hang in there, we are all here to support you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lunamare:
<strong>Our first MC meeting took place. I stated my position: wanting to try and work on our R, H said he could not see how this would be possible when his heart would not be in it</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is exactly correct.

That's why several of us tried to communicate to you that MC at this point is futile.

Please report what the MC said/responded to each of your statements.

Do not read this thread any further if you are not yet ready to take control of your situation.

Stop right now if you cannot stomach reality and tough questions.

OK.

Stop the pity party and let's get to work.

Have you read Surviving An Affair? His Needs/Her Needs? Have you filled out the EN questionaire?

Please describe what exposure you have accomplished. Please describe what exposure you are hesitant to accomplish.

Please describe what you believe have been ENs of your H's that he would claim you have not been filling. Please describe honestly what ENs of your H's you believe you may not have been filling.

We'll continue on from there.

WAT

Dear kloe72,

Should I ask him to leave, or wait until he is ready to leave? By asking him to leave, would I be just trying to avoid feeling more pain, but then if he does leave, I think I might be in worst pain. If I wait until he is ready to leave, set himself up, etc. it still spells out pain.

All the options spell out PAIN, and I just seem to have had enough. I want to somehow stop the pain. It's too much. I need a break. I don't know how to keep going at this point. I lack confidence and really don't know what to do. I read all the advice, but I somehow am not able to ACT. I feel numb - like, "stop the train, I want to get off" kind of feeling.

Oh God. I feel desperate and silly, and now wonder if life is really worth it all. I feel so low.

Sorry again for feeling so hopeless, but I am.

Lunamare

Don't apologize, remember we know EXACTLY what you are going through. Been there, done that. In my case, once FWH decided he wanted to move out (to his mothers house), I pushed him out as fast as I could. I think he was a little shocked, the reality of his decision hit home. We weren't getting anywhere with him being at home. Plus I couldn't stand the constant rejection. When he was at home, I couldn't sleep, eat or stop crying; not the best conditions for someone in their first tri-mester of pregnancy. At least once he left I was able to sleep. Over time my appetite came back (after I lost 19 lbs), but I never did stop crying. Sometimes it's good to just get it out.

Over time he realized what he was losing by leaving. I let him know what was going on with the baby but NEVER asked for his help on anything. A couple times I know he felt very left out, how could he not. He was missing the beginning of his daughters life. Plus no matter what your excuse, you're not going to get much sympathy by walking out on your pregnant wife (planned by the way). When he volunteered to do something, I let him; but I made him ask. This way he would see I was moving on and didn't need him. In your case, since you already have kids he is going to see right away what he's missing when he's not there to tuck his kids in at night.

To worthatry:

Thanks for reading me WAT. Hadn't heard from you and thought you were not interested, not that I blame you.

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------
He is exactly correct.

That's why several of us tried to communicate to you that MC at this point is futile.
------------------------------------------------

We're meeting MC next week. Don't I need to hear H out, whatever it might be?

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------
Please report what the MC said/responded to each of your statements.
-------------------------------------------------

He mostly listened.

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------
Do not read this thread any further if you are not yet ready to take control of your situation.

Stop right now if you cannot stomach reality and tough questions.

OK

Stop the pity party and let's get to work.
-------------------------------------------------
You know what WAT, you're probably right. I am feeling too low, too sad, and I am probably in the pity party and can't get to work. Hate to tell you, but I am feeling so low I am wondering if LIFE is worth it all. Sorry to disappoint you.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
Have you read Surviving An Affair? His Needs/Her Needs? Have you filled out the EN questionaire?
-------------------------------------------------

I only read the concepts and A&Q on the site. Do you mean fill out EN questionnaire as if I were H?

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------
Please describe what exposure you have accomplished. Please describe what exposure you are hesitant to accomplish.
--------------------------------------------------
Close friends know. Not everybody knows. I don't feel like putting it on the news!

Quote:
------------------------------------------------
Please describe what you believe have been ENs of your H's that he would claim you have not been filling. Please describe honestly what ENs of your H's you believe you may not have been filling.

We'll continue on from there.
--------------------------------------------------

Sexual Fulfillment: his philosophy is, even if we have arguments during the day and leave them with some frustration, it should not interfere in the bedroom. My idea is, I need to at least agree to disagree, or it will affect how I act in the bedroom.

Admiration: H seems to need a lot of outside approval. I may not have been giving him enough.

Affection: Probably not enough as he would have liked.

Recreational Companionship: ex. H would like me to play chess with him, I don't particularly care for the game, etc.

But at this point, I don't really know if I am evaluating the above properly. I obviously miscalculated a lot of things, and possibly all of the above as well. Were H to do the questionnaire, it may be totally different. I don't know.

WAT, at this point, I am sorry to admit it, I am feeling hopeless and drained, and I know this is getting to you, because I see you as an "action" guy. Am I wrong? Don't blame you if you want to pass me by. Take care. Others are ready for the kind of help you can provide. I just feel like a big "weight" for everybody.

You see all I am doing right now is crying non-stop.

Lunamare

Please see a doc about anti-depressants. You're a prime candidate just like most other BSs.

Please get a copy of SAA and read it before your next MC session.

DO go to the MC session and listen intently to everything your H has to say. We already know what it is (will be), but you need to hear it and see/understand how his logic makes no sense and is adversely affected by his stupor. Do not take personally anything he says because he is under the influence.

DO report what the MC says.

When you are emotionally ready to stop being a "weight" and start lifting that weight over your head so you can crash it to the ground, let us know.

WAT

Hi lunamare! I love your name!

We all know how you feel. Affairs are devastating and everyone involved is hurt!

You have received great advice on both your threads. I cannot think of anything to add except that once YOU DECIDE to follow plan A or you DECIDE to go to plan B, you will feel much better. There is nothing worse than not knowing what to do. Re read your threads and all the advice and decide, or choose not to follow MB principles and do it your way.
The good thing about following the MB principles is that you have a rational and logical explanation for each action (can be found either on this website or in the book SAA) and that there are like 40 000 friends who agree (mostly) with them and many of those who have experience.

See your doctor about ADs.
And again, re read your threads beause you are one of the lucky people who have had all the best of MB giving you great advice.

My dday was 23rd october and I have been in plan B since the 26th december. So it is all very recent but thanks to MB I have made it this far without major destruction of myself and my family and am even feeling better lately! At least I don't cry that often!

Hope this helps. Keep posting.

Hi again Luna...and ((((((LUNA))))).

So so sorry to hear you feel so low, though unfortunately it is typical. If you read the story in the books by Harley, you will learn it is common for BS to have "I don't want to live anymore" thoughts. Just so you know. Sometimes it helps to know your feelings are "normal".

A lot of people have recommended getting AD, though I hear they don't kick in right away. You mentioned that you don't feel like doing anything, but I am going to make an almost absurd suggestion of something to do...start jogging....or at least speed walking.

I don't know if you exercise regularly already or not. And I know it probably seems like the last thing you could be motivated to do--but I really highly recommend it.

Maybe pick a best friend and get her to force you to go out and do it with you. You can talk with her while you walk or go alone and listen to music. Countless studies have shown how exercise fights depression and recent studies have shown how they are actually MORE effective than anti-depresssents. Plus, there is an immediate "I did something good for myself" feeling.

I read the post about acting/doing something...and though I don't think "wallowing" in your own saddness is healthy---I believe that we have to let ourselves feel our feelings to get through them. This is all very recent for you, so of course you feel so low. Plus, you're a woman--women generally tend to deal first by feeling.

Oh, and also, you may want to read about the stages one experiences in loss. Essentially, in an A the marriage between BS / WS dies, so the stages you experience are the same as those experienced when a loved one dies. Sounds terrible to say it that way...but an A is an awful terrible thing.

Anyway, I seem to be so full of advice on my posts to you. I hope I don't come accrossed as bossy. Just wanting to be helpful.

luna

Know what? You are going to survive all of this. Yes, it's going to be difficult. Yes, you will have to do 99.9% of the work to save your marriage. Yes, it's going to involve a lot of sadness and pain. Yes, you will receive help here, every step of the way.

Try to put this all in perspective, so you can clean up after the pity party (that we all had for ourselves at the time), so you can roll up your sleeves and get to work.

Think of it this way. Your H is involved in an Affair. For all intents and purposes, you really DON'T have a husband right now. His mind and his heart are almost completely with another woman. Oh, he "feels badly" for you, but, face it, not enough to give up his desire to live out this fantasy he's created. And this fantasy he's created will not last forever.

You have a couple of choices....A) Allow the shock, pain, fear, anxiety to paralyze you to the point of taking no action at all, and remain a "victim". B) Go to an attorney, your God given right and file for the big D, or C) Empower yourself by taking ACTIONs that CAN and WILL make a difference in how all this will turn out.

The Marriage Builder's philosophy is designed to be for YOU. You are going to experience change as a result of this A whether your marriage is saved or not. You are in charge of what those changes might be. Plan A is all about doing those things you can to 1) end the affair, 2) accepting your part in a marriage that became vulnerable and changing and improving those things, and 3) becoming a more complete person, savvy in participating in a relationship that is MORE COMPLETE so that it's less likely to be vulnerable to an affair.

Please get on board with us here. Make it your mission to purchase and read "Surviving an Affair". Make that your first ACTION to becoming involved in determining what the future will be for you. Please don't get caught up in the negative thinking that "there's nothing I can do", because NOTHING can be further from the truth.

Are you moving forward with only your emotionally clouded instincts, or with the wealth of information in the book and on this forum? Only you can decide!

Best wishes
SD

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

Shattered dreams:

Thanks for your thoughts.

Quote:
------------------------------------------------
You have a couple of choices....A) Allow the shock, pain, fear, anxiety to paralyze you to the point of taking no action at all, and remain a "victim". B) Go to an attorney, your God given right and file for the big D, or C) Empower yourself by taking ACTIONs that CAN and WILL make a difference in how all this will turn out.
------------------------------------------------

It looks like I am in (a) "victim"


Quote:
------------------------------------------------
Are you moving forward with only your emotionally clouded instincts...
------------------------------------------------

I think that's what I am doing.

Quote:
------------------------------------------------
Think of it this way. Your H is involved in an Affair. For all intents and purposes, you really DON'T have a husband right now. His mind and his heart are almost completely with another woman. Oh, he "feels badly" for you, but, face it, not enough to give up his desire to live out this fantasy he's created. And this fantasy he's created will not last forever.
------------------------------------------------

What if it does last, and I waste my time unrealistically "hoping" it won't, but at the same time I can't let go. H wants me to let go, and I won't. With my head I know I can't hold him back, yet I am doing everything not to let him go, for fear of what? Spiraling down? that the kids will pay the price for our mess? For fear of being left alone? My source of inspiration has been my "love" for H, and what am I going to do with this "empty" hole, now, in its place?

Everything I seem to be doing is putting distance between us, and I tell myself, this can't be right, what I am doing isn't right, it's not working. The more I do to try to keep H, the more he pulls away, and I see it, and I can't seem to do otherwise. H is getting impatient, frustrated, fed up, etc. I guess I must be missing some self-discipline, I am immature and can't accept reality. Am I being too proud? I have all these questions and no real answers, yet. And through all this, I need to function, or else CHAOS will set in: the kids, the finances, the work.

Now, let's see if I get this right:

From what I have said above and my H's reactions, I don't seem to be doing PLAN A very well, which I would like to be doing while H is still at home.

What H wants is for me to sit down, work out a plan for us to separate (so he can be with OW). That's what H wants. I can't seem to be able to sit down and do this yet. Should I force myself to do this - because when I think about it, I get sick - or, do I let him do what he needs to do (ie he has threatened that if I don't comply, I should know that he can walk out tomorrow morning - which I think he will, justifying this action by blaming me for not collaborating, because what he wanted was to reach a "peaceful" understanding between us) meaning I just do what H wants, period. To do this, I would feel like a lamb taken as sacrifice, and I don't want that feeling. But then I ask myself, "fight"? fight for what? To make the situation worst for everybody, including myself?

If I go to Plan B, I don't see it as being a true Plan B, because we would have too many things to discuss, and too many decisions to take, because my understanding of Plan B is no contact (or the least possible).

I seem to be stuck on what I should do. Although I have not read SAA, I read the concepts on the site, and I see what the theory is but have difficulty implementing it to my situation, and at the stage I am at emotionally.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Lunamare

P.S. Althought H and I had set a second MC meeting (to discuss where we went wrong as opposed to going forward), I felt I needed a break from the anxiety this meeting seemed to be creating for me, and have asked to postpone it. I do want to hear what H has to say (in fact, we talk enough already and know what H has to say), but I need the break - again, since the situation I am in is not by choice, I seem to feel that things are going much too fast, can't process it quickly enough (as my H would like), but he can admit that I am being hit from "left" field, because he is springing this all up on me very quickly. I am in the "reaction" role to the events.

I would really like to stop this cycle. My "reacting" to events. This is how I must be getting these feelings of helplessness.

My one "action" was to ask H to postpone second MC out of respect for my state of mind. I basically told H in my attempt to do what H so badly wanted (to accommdate him and comply on how he wanted things to happen) I was completely forgetting about myself in the process and not considering how I was feeling through all of this. I know this probably got him real mad (and again probably puts more distance between us), but I really feel "too fragile" and though I was hitting the limits of my sanity, and didn't want to force myself just "to please" H.

I agree with SD. I need to get to a place where I feel I am taking ACTION, and find some balance with my sense of being totally "out of control".

But I also know taking ACTION just to take ACTION is not a good idea, and so I am back to evaluating what ACTION should I take? I want to choose an ACTION to move forward, and because I guess no one can give guarantees and can never be certain, I am stuck. I am really stuck. I probably am not grasping the MB principles very well. Or, how do I go about making these "standard" principles and personalize them to the personalities involved. I know that my H is a very proud man, and he may blow everything just because he set himself in a course, and do or die, he will not budge. You know, it feels like: what will one little lie do? But then, to cover up the one little lie, you are cornered, and you add to the lies, and before you know it, it's out of control. The A started for one reason, but H is now taking it to another level, just because.....he is on that course, like, he had anxiety attacks (withdrawl) and so for him that was a sign that he needed to reconsider (and I obviously say to myself, that he just wanted to stop the PAIN). Can't blame him I guess. I am seeing myself doing the same thing - anything to stop the pain. Being with the OW for him is stopping the pain, and it's the only thing H sees right now. His the first to admit he is being egotistical. So what? I say, don't be!

THis PS is getting very long. It looks more like venting. Sorry everybody.

Lunamare