I don't really see how it is possible( I know all things are possbile with God, but . . ) for my husband to see the reality that his affair is not about her and how happy she makes him feel, but really about him and the issues he will not confront wihtin himself. I know that I have played a part in getting us to this point. I have many mistakes in our 20 years. But I am losing hope. He has been living out of the house for a month now, calls and sees our four kids, may or may not be talking to her she lives two states away. Do they really ever see the light ???

YES!!!

YES!!! My H was gone for 6 months before he realized what he was giving up. He came home three months ago and we are starting to rebuild our lives together. So many times I thought it was over. I can't tell you how many nights I came here crying my eyes out. But people kept telling me to have hope and keep up with my plan. We are not yet where we need to be, but we started MC last week and hopefull are moving in the right direction.

They definitely do but if you accept that it is addiction then, logically, complete abstinence is required for recovery to begin.

Glad to see you back, Jade, although I'm very sorry that he hasn't snapped out of it yet. Have you been reading MB concepts here?

If you read here you will find that most affairs do not last and many times the marriage can become stronger after the affair has died, especially if one uses the ideas presented here to build an affair-proof marriage.

jade, it is usually NOT possible to educate a wayward spouse when they are in the throes of an addiction. It is a complete and total waste of time.

What you can do, though, is do everything in your power to end the affair. Such as:

1. attract your spouse back by trying to meet his needs and acting as attractive as possible

2. making the affair as uncomfortable as possible by exposing it and doing other things to burst the fantasy bubble of the affair

Have you read Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley?

Jade, what do you know about this OW? Who is she? What things have you done so far to bust up this affair?

My H & I were separated 14 of 21 months, 7 separations, a too long (18 months) Plan A on my part and not enough forethought the first few times on his changing behavior consistantly BEFORE he moved back home.

We've been in recovery almost 5 years. We'll have our 22nd anniv this summer.

My advice to you would be to do the best Plan A you can for a few months. I'm glad I put forth the effort so that when I knew when I was done with Plan A that I had no regrets.

If nothing has changed after your Plan A, do Plan B. I would guess at least some of your kids are at the age that they can assist with the transfer for the visitation schedule, IF they want to see him.

But, I would set up a visitation schedule NOW. Calling his kids isn't enough, he should be seeing them on a regular basis. The more reality and natural consequences to his behavior you can inject into his life the better. And, some adolescents & teenagers may be brutally honest with their wayward parent. He is risking those relationships as well.

thank you all for your responses. yes, as you all know so well that this is a difficult time. What makes it all the more difficult is that I love him - am not too enthralled with or respectful of his behaviors - but he is a good man or at least was - that is what is so confusing. But i know that I cannot figure this out. He is suffering on many levels - in his career, finances, marriage. He is a child of functioning alcoholic parents - I always marveled at how he got of his family unscathed and now i know he did not. He does love the children. He calls every night and takes them to dinner once a week and took some of them on a day trip. The OW lives in another state and is in her second marriage, which she wants to leave. My WH says he has deep feelings for her, they were friends in high school. She "makes him". I wish he would seek counseling. Our pastor gave us each a copy of "Survivng an Affair" The night he left he told me he had read the first ninety or so pages but didn't think he could do waht it said (i.e. give her up). So now I just take care of myself and the kids the best I can and wait for him to come to his senses. I have a lot to learn also like to have faith and patience and not to control.
the tricky thing is that goes on with out you. Kids have events requiring parents, spring break plans with extended family have been bought and paid for, etc . . .I am now living "let go, let God "

Jade, have you exposed his affair? Are you in contact with the OW's husband?

i have not contacted her. MY family, my WH's family and four very close friends know of the affair. Our oldest son suspects something. I haven't talked to OW out of fear that it will bring them closer. This affair has been going on for almost twoyears. Started out as phone calls, etc. My WH tells me he has seen her maybe 10-12 times over this time and slept withher twice. Phone calss I believe were daily. In Novemeber of 2004 they decided to stop talking and seeing each other for a while. FOr the past year he has been telling me he is unhappy and wants to leave. Last Sunday of January 2005 he tells me about her. He tells me he has deep feelings for her ,but isn't necessarily going to run into her arms. He told his dad that he had fallen in love with her, but when he dad said oh no you are getting a divorce my WH said no. I asked him if he was planning to take my kids from me and marry her and he looked shocked. A lot of mixed messages here. He doesn't want me, wants her, but doesn't know - I think he is waiting for me to throw him out. He told me he would not call her while he left to figure theings out. Don't really know if I can trust him. Supposedly she is wanting out of her 2nd marriage - her husband knows of the affiar per my WH and wants to work on things according to my WH. Since they are two states away it is hard for me to know the details. I am afraid to call either one of them as it might work against me as my WH has said he would not call her until he'figures things out".

Jade, probably the most effective thing you can do to save your marriage is to call up her H. That won't work against you; it is an essential tool in breaking up this affair. He may not even know about the affair and/or may be trying to save his marriage. You can help each other. If there are any other key people in your lives, such as pastor, boss, close friends, I would expose to them too. [her parents would be a good exposure]

The reason your H looked shocked when his dad asked him about divorce is because your H is in a fantasy bubble. He does not want a divorce most likely. He wants to keep you on the string while he keeps his girlfriend.

So, your mission is to make the affair as uncomfortable as possible by exposing it and bursting the fantasy bubble. The affair cannot survive without the aura of secrecy so please don't protect their secret, call the OW's H.

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jade05:
<strong> I am afraid to call either one of them as it might work against me as my WH has said he would not call her until he'figures things out". </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should be more afraid of what is going to happen if you do nothing. If you do nothing, that is exactly what you are going get. The boat is sinking, Jade, time to start bailing some water. This has already been going on for 2 years so the affair is quite entrenched. Without action, it is likely to get worse.

Jade, I agree with ML completely ~ you must find your gumption, and you must contact the OW's H. This is a MUST. You cannot trust that your WH is telling you the truth that he knows. You just cannot. What he has shown you is that he has lied to you consistently for the past 2 years. He is not the man you once knew ~ he is an addict.

I would not be surprised at ALL if he told you her H knew in order to make you feel more secure. ML is right, he wants you BOTH right now. He doesn't want to give up his "feel good" fantasy with OW, but he doesn't seem to want to lose his family unit, either. Believe it or not, your WH could continue on in this state (cake eating), waffling back and forth for a LONG time ~ tooooooo long.

Even if the H already knows, you two having a connection gives BOTH your WH and his WW accountability. These A addictions are very strong, and if it is to be broken, you cannot rely on either of their "willpower."

I know it is uncomfortable, I know it seems like you will be causing MORE upheaval by making this call, but it truly is part of saving your M. Your WH will be VERY upset, especially if he lied to you, and you found out. Remember, with the WS, their best defense is a very aggressive offense. Expect to hear that he "was going to come back to the M, UNTIL you showed how vindictive/mean/revengeful you really are by calling her H." Expect to hear that he was about to come home, but now realizes that NOTHING can save the M, and he DOES now want a D.

Expect to hear many many hurtful words. Honestly, in a way, the more hurtful the better, because that means the more damage you did to the A. Sometimes, A's cannot be repaired by the people in them after critical damage, even when they try really really hard. Sometimes, the people in them realize, once they are exposed to the light of day (and truth, and GOD) that the A just isn't worth all the pain/effort/energy. So, if you sense that calling OW's H would be very upsetting to your WH, that is EXACTLY what you need to do THIS MORNING.

Once you have done this critical step, we can strategize more about your Plan A, or if it is time to move to Plan B. I'll try and read your other posts here (good thing there's only 7 so far!) and get caught up on your story.

Hang in there, stay strong, and CALL HIM THIS MORNING.

Spidey

what do you say? hi, you don't know me but your wife and my husband have been having an affair. . . is the only point of the call to establish that we both know. do i ask him waht his intentions are? what if he won't talk with me? very scary . . don't know I can . . i have a somewaht controlling personality which has caused problems b/t my WH and me. won't this highlight to him I haven't changed . . . ??

after reviewing some other postings on this issue I am more confused than ever.

Jade,
What points are confusing you? Maybe we help clarify. Reading through this thread there is a theme of interjecting reality.

Calling BH, saying "hi, you don't know me but your wife and my husband have been having an affair." is fine. If he won't talk, you can't control that, but wouldn't you talk to someone who called with that information?

I completely agree that your H may have lied to you about her situation, or she may have lied to your H.

A WH accusing the BW of being "controlling" is so common it is part of the WS script. With 4 kids there's little doubt you needed some controlling behaviors! You could also call it "management". And sometimes it is applied to spouses as well because it can be hard to shift gears.

Spider has a realistic post. My H was furious when I called the OW (there was no H or BF at that time). OW was furious to find out he never had seen a divorce lawyer, much less that it was in the process. We live in a 60 day no fault divorce state, after a year and a half, she should have been wondering. She knew I was lied to but didn't realize he was lying to her as well.

That's about the only reason to call an OW, she wasn't the least bit sorry about her relationship with my H.

jade, you know what is more scary? Honestly? D and the breaking of your family.

Seriously, you must put this in perspective. I understand you might have control issues, I have worked through my share of those as well. However, whether you are controlling or opposite in the extreme, the advice would be the same. This is one of the most critical things you have to do.

This is what you say ~ remember, this is a plea for help to save your M, not a bashing-session on this man's WW: "Hi, my name is Jade. My spouse is having an affair with your wife. I love him. I want to save our M and keep our family together. Please encourage her to do the right thing, end this relationship and all contact with my H, so he can recommit to our M."

It is of critical importance that you tell the spouse of the affair partner. This is by far one of the quickest ways to end an affair in progress (which is why we expose). No matter what other things you do to heal your marriage, you are doomed to failure as long as the affair continues.

You are not being mean or controlling by doing this, jade. You are honoring your commitment to your marriage.

What other things have you read that you interpret as saying you SHOULDN'T contact the OW's H?

I know this is scary. But you cannot let your fear rule you right now. You must dig deep, and make this call.

Spidey

Jade,

Melody knows of what she speaks. Call her H up, tell him what you know and how you know it. Then let him tell you what is going on his end. I seriously doubt that he will not respond. You may in fact be his lifeline; he may be feeling exactly the way you do and not know what to do. Tell him about this site.

Compare notes with him. Many times in these situations there are many half-truths and out-and-out deceptions being perpetrated.

Consider your options; if you do nothing then nothing will change. If you take action then things will move towards a resolution. Pray about this and ask God for strength and courage because that is what you need right now. He will provide.

When you say that the posts are confusing you, you mean that you are getting conflicting advice?

As a betrayed wife who has had to make a few exposure phone calls (WH is serial adulterer) IMO you should expose the affair as soon and as widely as possible.

Nothing helps the fantasy romance of affair/fog land crumble faster than exposure.

My WH complained to me that everything was great until the latest OW and I talked to each other LOL (and then boo-hoo, nothing was the same anymore...) WH even said that he and OW didn't feel they were doing anything wrong until then.

Even though the OW said she didn't believe anything I had to say and hung up on me, she love-busted my WH BIG TIME about stringing us both along, started demanding accountability and tried to saddle him with all sorts of rules. They started fighting a lot, breaking up, and OW "never looked at" WH "the same again" LOL And of course with all that fighting and controlling, WH didn't find OW quite so attractive anymore either.

Your WH will be very angry when you expose but don't let that stop you. His anger will be BECAUSE he knows the affair (and cake-eating too?) can only thrive in continued secrecy. Right now he probably feels entitled to keep both you and the OW in his life (to serve different needs?) Don't let his anger scare you into shutting up and putting up with his abusive betrayal. Exposure will force him to make a choice. In most cases the WS eventually acknowledges that the BS is the best bet for getting all their needs met from one partner.

I realize now that I should have exposed the very first time my WH betrayed my trust.

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

thank you all for your care and concern. it really does mean a lot. I know that I should probably do this . . .but it will take me out of my comfort zone . . right now I can tell myself that he needs to figure this out and "get back to me" I love him and want him deal with what got him here, but I can't force him to do this. If I manipulate then the healing isn't real.
I will probably call this week. I need to pray for strength