Wife had intense affair for two years (with all the bells and whistles). I was fully replaced by OM during that time for all her needs. On d-day she asked for forgiveness and ended the affair. We are trying to rebuild the marriage, but lately I feel that I may never be able to get over the betrayal. I don’t dislike my wife and I wanted the marriage to work, but I wonder if at some point I may simply give up and move on. Wife is trying hard to rebuild, but I just cannot see myself spending the rest of my life like this.

Should I consider a separation? I also worry about finances and how to handle my life once I become single. My wife has taken care of all the bills and bank accounts. How can all of this be corrected so I have some control of my life and can make a better decision?

First off, I'm sure U r not a loser as your name states. Second, how long has it been since U found out and d-day. If it has just happened U really need to take some time to allow it to soak in. There are many good books out there to read and many good people on this site that can help you.

I don't have a lot of good advice but I can tell you many people will envy the position U r in because most of us r trying to get our WSs to end their A. Take time to read from this site and possibly look on the recovery board for more answers.
CR

Please change your name....I would hate that to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why not try to figure out why you're "stuck" instead? What secondary gain do you get from staying where you are rather than forgiving? None of us "forget" the affairs...and we'd be silly to do so...but most of us do reach forgiveness. So why not explore that before exploring divorce?

The affair makes me feel like a loser. I don't think I am a loser, but I certainly feel like one. In reality OM is a loser, but my wife preferred OM over the duration of the affair and gave her heart away. So in relationship to that scenario I feel like a loser.


D-day was almost 10 months ago. Wife has ended the affair and all contact with OM. OM is not a threat and never was. Wife was a cake eater with low self-esteem who was bored. Otherwise, she is a great woman and I don’t really have major complaints about her.

This is all about me. I don’t want to go through life feeling like this.

Initially I wanted to save the marriage very badly; but now I wonder if I am saving something that has little value. Suddenly I long for the purity of a relationship with no baggage. The images of WW given herself away to OM after I was such a devoted husband are hard to swallow. My pride and ego are shattered. How can I ever feel good about myself again? Why should I make love to a woman who may be thinking about OM to reach orgasm while she is with me? How do I get rid of those morbid thoughts?

How does one know divorce is an acceptable option?

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: I'm-a-Loser ]</small>

I understand what you are saying about feeling like a loser, when I first came here my name was amienough. Then I realized I AM enough and changed it.

I'm sorry this happened to you. I agree with Star
explore forgiving. Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean what they did was ok, it doesn't mean you'll forget, you choose to move forward and release it. Of course you have to go through the steps of different emotions but it can be done.

Would you consider going to counseling to help you through this?

I have never been to counseling. My wife was prompt and efficient in ending the affair so there was not much need for marital counseling. She is a pretty good wife and I believe I am a good husband. This was nothing more than a mid life crisis and a voracious appetite for cake; nothing more.

I was depressed, but this is better. However, there are intangibles or things that I miss about a normal relationship where there has been no betrayal. The affair reawaken my passion for my wife, but this is starting to lessen and now I can see her actions more objectively. She showed no mercy while she was betraying me and I cannot get over that. It is not so much the sex, but what she had to do to be alone with OM to have sex. That was the ugly part. I have tried very hard for many months to hold my resentment back, but I know I have it. So what do I do if I cannot forgive her? Divorce sounds terrible and I am afraid of it. In a sense I feel trapped.

I have also developed the need for a deep emotional connection and I am not sure I could ever have a deep emotional connection with my wife again. She really became disconnected from me to use all her energies on OM and I don’t see how that can come back.

So you desire someone with no baggage. Well, don’t we all.

Of course the decision to remain in the marriage or to toss it and start over is ALWAYS a decision that either of you can make at any time.

So, let’s get back to your question, “Has that time come?”

You obviously ask yourself this question because you are having trouble maintaining or restoring the emotional love-connection that you once had with your wife. Her betrayal of your commitment to her and to the marriage is so severe and painful that you have been unable to see her in her former light and therefore you have not been able to open yourself to the very idea of forgiveness. Am I close?

But isn’t the real question, “Who are you married to right now?” the most relevant question. Well, who are you married to right now? You are now ten months into a recovery that is falling short of your expectations. However, I would venture to guess that you have never written down on a piece of paper what those expectations are. So, I ask you right this minute, “What would you expect from your wife, your marriage and yourself to achieve a full and lasting recovery?” I would then ask your wife those same questions. The answers are almost always enlightening.

Perhaps you are too principled to even allow the idea of forgiveness to be an option. But I ask you what you see when you look into your wife’s eyes. Is there absolution for a sinner? What are your conditions?

Now, let’s get selfish for a moment. What is best for YOU? Where will YOUR happiness come from? What is it you want from life from this moment on?

I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Mr. G

Your ambivalence is understandable and normal for practically all of us BS have gone through it. Should you divorce your W? Only YOU can answer that question but I would like for you to consider the following. No matter what the outcome of your marriage is, it is in your own best self interests to find out WHY your W had her affair. And to have some emotional peace you might want to consider stating to your W that as far as you are concerned, the marriage is on probation until further notice.

TMCM

You are not a loser,

Please reconsider counseling ok? Even though your WW ended the A right on DDay,you should have still gone to Professional Counseling.This is DEFINITELY not something you could handle on your own!

I can understand your resentment about your WW's A.Dr.Harley mentions how this resentment can eat away at any possible recovery.Please read "Overcoming Resentment" under the Q&A setion(#4).

Before you truly consider a D,read about resentment and seek out a Pro Marriage counselor or better yet,get into cousneling with Steve if you can.

Take care now.

O

How and why did her two-year affair suddenly end? I think a lot of the answers you need are connected to this.
Mulan

thank you all for your care and concern. it really does mean a lot. I know that I should probably do this . . .but it will take me out of my comfort zone . . right now I can tell myself that he needs to figure this out and "get back to me" I love him and want him deal with what got him here, but I can't force him to do this. If I manipulate then the healing isn't real.
I will probably call this week. I need to pray for strength.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
You obviously ask yourself this question because you are having trouble maintaining or restoring the emotional love-connection that you once had with your wife. Her betrayal of your commitment to her and to the marriage is so severe and painful that you have been unable to see her in her former light and therefore you have not been able to open yourself to the very idea of forgiveness. Am I close?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel like I am dealing with something that is irreversible. I just don’t see how can we have a deep emotional connection again. She had that with OM and may very well still be having thoughts about OM. So I don’t see how we can become a good marriage again. I have met her needs and she meets mine, but that does not help.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are now ten months into a recovery that is falling short of your expectations. However, I would venture to guess that you have never written down on a piece of paper what those expectations are. So, I ask you right this minute, “What would you expect from your wife, your marriage and yourself to achieve a full and lasting recovery?” I would then ask your wife those same questions. The answers are almost always enlightening.
Perhaps you are too principled to even allow the idea of forgiveness to be an option. But I ask you what you see when you look into your wife’s eyes. Is there absolution for a sinner? What are your conditions?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted a wife that was my woman and no one else’s woman. She belonged to OM for two years. Nothing can change that. My only alternative is to forget 1st and then forgive. SO far I have not been able to forget. What she did was cruel. She faked love for OM so she could justify her actions. That is why she could stop the affair so suddenly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, let’s get selfish for a moment. What is best for YOU? Where will YOUR happiness come from? What is it you want from life from this moment on?
I am interested to hear your thoughts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My happiness has never been dependent on my wife or anyone else. What is best for me is a relationship with no impurities. I hate the impurities and I feel it has tarnished this relationship forever. If I found a woman similar to my wife with no such impurities I would consider her. I guess I am afraid to leave because I don’t want to be alone and trying out the dating game when I have not dated in many years.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And to have some emotional peace you might want to consider stating to your W that as far as you are concerned, the marriage is on probation until further notice.
TMCM</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I tell my wife about what I am thinking she will become very unhappy. She wants to save the marriage very badly. However IMO she may not be doing it the right way or perhaps I am not receptive to her methods.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Before you truly consider a D,read about resentment and seek out a Pro Marriage counselor or better yet,get into counseling with Steve if you can.
Take care now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I might do that. I certainly don’t like to feel this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
How and why did her two-year affair suddenly end? I think a lot of the answers you need are connected to this.
Mulan</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The affair ended because WW got caught. WW never had intentions to leave the marriage even though she promised eternal love to OM. Like I said she was eating cake. OM was hurt very deeply by my WW as well. I believe OM is still in deep pain over this break up. IN any event my wife cut off the relationship right away even though the affair was very steamy and sexual.

I want to feel good about my wife. I want to admire her the way I did in the past. I still love her a lot, more than anything, but I don’t have that admiration anymore.

Hi again,

Listen,we all understand how you are feeling.No one on this earth besides babies are impurity free,so to speak.Adultery was a HUGE stain for sure.But there are couples who have recovered from this.But IMO you have not given yourself,YOURSELF,a chance here.Put aside what your WW wants.In order for YOU to move ahead and have a clear heart and mind,wouldn't it be best to explore the counseling and see where it leads you before exiting the marriage for good?

You might just discover a way to get beyond this betrayal and resentment or you just might realize that there is no chance that you can stay in the marriage any longer.But please don't just give up on this without the fight that we all should have before ending things.You do not want to have the what if's and regrets laying groundwork in your soul,OK? You should not consider staying in this marriage for any other reason than you want to see it work out and you love your WW,not because you are afraid of the future,being alone,or financial reasons.I can hear that you don't want a D,not yet.Please wait.

Think about it.Allow yourself to be open to all of God's possibilities.

O

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Do you have children? If you do, then it is even a bigger deal. If not, I would put that off until you are sure what you want.

I am a old timer that sticks around for the old timer point of view. Your old marriage is dead. What you have now is a new marriage. That is really the easiest way to think of it. You are now in the dating phase of your new relationship. It sounds like she wants this to work out and she did something really stupid. It sounds like she was lonely. No excuse, but she had a problem and choose the wrong way to solve it, that is why the MC is a good idea.

Should you stay? What helped me deceide to stay was something I had heard on Dr Phil-I know, I know. He said something to the effect of can you risk them doing it to you again. For me, I knew that I could handle the let down if it did happen again. It didn't kill me the only time it happened and I still loved him enough to give it a try.

Here I am almost 5 years out and I rarely even think of the affair, except when I'm here. I think I so stick around in part to remind myself that every relationship (even those not previously touched) is vulnerable to an affair. If you choose to stay, what you would have is a mature relationship. She came back, didn't she-that says a great deal.

Do not give her a life sentence for committing this crime. If you choose to stay, you must put the affair in the past. I never bring it up anymore out of repect for my H who did all the right things to save our marriage once there was a d day.

No one can fault either decision. I am Catholic and have children so the likelyhood of me leaving is close to 0%.

Hi, I'm-NOT-a-loser

Quote:
====================================
If I tell my wife about what I am thinking she will become very unhappy. She wants to save the marriage very badly. However IMO she may not be doing it the right way or perhaps I am not receptive to her methods.
====================================

Are you afraid to make your wife very unhappy with the truth of what you are facing?

Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You might just discover a way to get beyond this betrayal and resentment or you just might realize that there is no chance that you can stay in the marriage any longer. But please don't just give up on this without the fight that we all should have before ending things. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been fighting my desire to leave for 10 months. When I get down the desire to leave creeps in. When I am happy and forget the betrayal (even if for an instant) I want to stay married.

I also wonder if divorce is better in the long run. Why try to fix a very old car when there is always the chance to buy a new one. That is my dilemma!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
You do not want to have the what if's and regrets laying groundwork in your soul, OK? You should not consider staying in this marriage for any other reason than you want to see it work out and you love your WW,not because you are afraid of the future,being alone,or financial reasons.I can hear that you don't want a D,not yet.Please wait. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am truly afraid of being alone. I have been married a long time and I don’t envision life as a single man.

I also feel I have become vulnerable to an affair. IN a way I know how some men and women jump into affairs. I seem to have developed that need……… whatever that is. In the past things were not this way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here I am almost 5 years out and I rarely even think of the affair, except when I'm here. I think I so stick around in part to remind myself that every relationship (even those not previously touched) is vulnerable to an affair. If you choose to stay, what you would have is a mature relationship. She came back, didn't she-that says a great deal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be like heaven for me.. I do think less about the A now, but it is always in the back of my mind. Particularly the I’m-a-loser aspect. I know my wife did what she did because of her and not me. I know I am a good husband; not perfect, but would be highly acceptable to most women. What she did has to do with no self-respect, but I cannot help to feel like I was not good enough for her so she had to use another man to give herself pleasure. Granted the OM is a nobody, but in the end it hurts even more that she used a nobody and that she gave him so much of herself while I was wondering why WW was cold in the bedroom.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do not give her a life sentence for committing this crime. If you choose to stay, you must put the affair in the past. I never bring it up anymore out of respect for my H who did all the right things to save our marriage once there was a d day.
No one can fault either decision. I am Catholic and have children so the likelihood of me leaving is close to 0%. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We don’t talk about the affair anymore. Sometimes I have an inclination to do so, but bite my tongue out of respect for my wife. At this stage she wants to move on and she sees no need to go over these issues again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you afraid to make your wife very unhappy with the truth of what you are facing?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See above. I have discovered that affair talk is very upsetting to her. She feels everything that needed to be said has been said and there is no point in discussing the same issues again. I hate to make her unhappy because then I get sad.

You said that you may not be receptive to what she is doing to heal the M.
Here some reading can be useful. She most likely does not speak any of your primery "love laguages".
The result: You are unfulfiled. And she sees no result from her reaching out to you.And probably feels frustrated and very sad.

Here in this site you can buy: "His needs, her needs", by W. Harley.
I will also recomend "The five languages of love" by Cary Chapman.
This in fact very important. No M can ever succed if you don't to some extent speek the love language of your spouse. In Marriuge Builders terminology: Your "emotional needs", EN's, is the way to put love units into your love bank.

I strongly support the suggestion to find a pro-M MC.
If your Wife would post here that would also be very useful. Often a not is best opened if you have both ends of the rope.

God bless your struggle and your Marriage!

I'm-NOT-a-loser said:
==========================
I have discovered that affair talk is very upsetting to her. She feels everything that needed to be said has been said and there is no point in discussing the same issues again. I hate to make her unhappy because then I get sad.
==========================

Of course it is upsetting to her. This is because the root cause of the affair, and it's affects on the marriage - YOUR EXTREME PAIN, are as yet, unresolved.

If you don't talk to her in depth, and deal with ALL the issues surrounding the affair (not a one time talk, but an ongoing process), your marriage will very likely end on its own. That is what appears to already be happening with you.

Get professional help. I recommend you call the experts listed on this website.

If you intend to save your marriage, you will have to choose to face the conflicts therein. If you sit back and wait, then you have chosen to end your marriage.

One thing is for certain. Your marital issues will NOT self-resolve.

All the best,
Gimble

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said that you may not be receptive to what she is doing to heal the M.
Here some reading can be useful. She most likely does not speak any of your primery "love languages".
The result: You are unfulfiled. And she sees no result from her reaching out to you.And probably feels frustrated and very sad.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We did the questionnaire about ENs. Her number one EN is admiration. IMO, this is very typical of WWs admiration seems to be everything for them. For me admiration was rated last.

My number one EN is sex or SF, for her this was number 3 on the list.

I rated conversation as no. 2, she rated this rather low.

She seems to get interested in the marriage when she is faced with the possibility of divorce. She does not want a divorce as OM (a divorced man) was never an option, but a past time.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will also recomend "The five languages of love" by Cary Chapman.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That one we do not have, thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Of course it is upsetting to her. This is because the root cause of the affair, and it's affects on the marriage - YOUR EXTREME PAIN, are as yet, unresolved.
If you don't talk to her in depth, and deal with ALL the issues surrounding the affair (not a one time talk, but an ongoing process), your marriage will very likely end on its own. That is what appears to already be happening with you.

If you intend to save your marriage, you will have to choose to face the conflicts therein. If you sit back and wait, then you have chosen to end your marriage. .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do you make someone talk when they don’t want to discuss the issue anymore? She is the typical WW who is VERY afraid to discuss anything about the affair. She feels that anything she says I will use against her if I end up divorcing her. She feels that she said everything that needed to be said. She clams down like the best of the best WWs. She is not a talker!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

One thing is for certain. Your marital issues will NOT self-resolve.
All the best,
Gimble</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They have gotten somewhat better. The improvement is always related to an open discussion. Whenever she does we move forward. However, it happens infrequently.