Orchid, thanks for your reply. I will print out the 5 stages of grieving for him to read.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe he is coming to see that it might be possible for him to survive alone, without a W. This could also be a good thing, because if he sees this, works through it and then eventually decides to stay with you, then it will be a true choice for him. He might see this as a contrast to your past together, when he felt he wasn't free in his choices because he didn't have all the information. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey FF - Smur captured my thoughts exactly! I keept thinking that there was something else that I wanted to say last night, but it was late and I was tired...

I think that as long as your H feels that he DOES have a choice, that in the end, he WILL stick it out... No matter how much you two have hurt each other, you both have a significant ammount of "history" together...

For me it was harder to throw away all of that history than it was to deal with all of the pain...

Semper Fi,
RIF

Hi FF,

Hope you're feeling better today. How are you going with Passionate Marriage? I think its got lots of brilliant ideas. I am trying the self-soothing at every opportunity, and it does work quite well mostly.
I read something in there about choosing your S, and thats why I had that thought I posted to you.

I just know that for me, if and when I feel that my H has really chosen me, rather than just settled for me for lack of better options, it will be a big moment.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would rather be his choice rather than his prison sentence </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This goes doubly for me!!!

<small>[ February 22, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: smur ]</small>

Hey FF - Just checking in on you to see how you're doing today. Smur and the other's have given you some great advice... I hope all is going well for you and your H today... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You guys are in my prayers, FF.

I think you have gotten a ton of good advice here.

I think it might be an empowerment thing as well. Seems as if you both took each others' ability to make decisions away at various points. Perhaps this is him affirming his right to decide. Don't ignore it, whatever the reason behind it is, tho.

Keep trying to meet his EN's, do your best by him. Even if your relationship were to end, you will be able to hold your best effort up as proof that you wanted the marriage to last. Would be cold comfort, I know.

Pray. Lots.

-OAK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hope you're feeling better today. How are you going with Passionate Marriage? I think its got lots of brilliant ideas. I am trying the self-soothing at every opportunity, and it does work quite well mostly.
I read something in there about choosing your S, and thats why I had that thought I posted to you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Smur, haven't read in the past week or so. When my DS got sick I lost my attention span again. Every time I get more depressed I lose it. I will pick it back up and start reading again. I had just gotten through the self soothing part. I love this book. It has helped more than any book I have read thus far (except the Bible). Thanks for your insight.

I think it might be an empowerment thing as well. Seems as if you both took each others' ability to make decisions away at various points. Perhaps this is him affirming his right to decide. Don't ignore it, whatever the reason behind it is, tho. OAK! Missed you dear. Where have you been? Yes, I think you are right. Our MC hit the nail on the head when she told him he does have a choice. He can choose to D me or he can choose to stay.

Doing ok today guys. Thanks. Slept better last night. No talking just nice that H slept in the middle of the bed which means he was feeling better too. When he is angry or upset he ends up on the edge of the bed.

Ok, off to get DS ready for school. Hugs to you all.

Update...my H has been back in a EA with OW2 since he learned of my A. Not only that but he lied and attended the birth of OC. I am sorry for OW though cuz the OC aspirated and is in the NICU. I am devastated. Don't know what is going to happen. We have MC tomorrow. Don't know what I want. We actually had SF for the first time in 3 months last night after the talk. If you remember about two weeks ago I thought he was talking to someone, guess I should trust my gut. I knew he was at the birth too. I figured that one out pretty easily. sigh...

{{{{{{FF}}}}}}

How are you doing this morning? You've probably already gone to church, but I wanted to let you know that I'm praying for you and your family...

Take some time to decide what you want to do... we're all here for you when you're ready to talk...

Semper Fi,
RIF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am devastated. Don't know what is going to happen.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course you are devastated.

No one knows what is going to happen.

Try to remain calm.

Try to formulate a plan.

What do you want?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know what I want.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I betcha your H would say the exact same thing when asked "What do you want?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We actually had SF for the first time in 3 months last night after the talk.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is 'the talk' how you learned about his attending OC's birth and the renewed EA? Was this talk open and honest and intimate before the SF?

If I were your advisor, I'd tell you to concentrate on your personal goals right now.

Write some down.

Pep

Hi Pep, yes SF was after the open and honest talk about OW, renewed EA and birth of OC. You are right, he doesn't know what he wants either. I want this insanity to end. I want my family whole and without the drama, but that may not be possible with the whole OW/OC drama. The D word sounds better all the time to me, yet I dread facing what all that means. I need to pull back and think. I was bitterly ugly to him last night.

FF -

No words of wisdom for you, just a big fat cyber hug.

You are always such a pilar, this thread hits kind of hard.

Can't even begin to imagine what you are and have been facing with your sitch.

Hang on FF. Try not to beat yourself up about the "bitterly ugly" way you acted. It comes with the territory and is bound to happen once in awhile.

Why it doesn't happen more with BS's is amazing to me.

I don't think I could handle what you and others deal with. I think you are incredible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you, Weaver. Your friendship means a lot to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faith: I posted this in Idiotville, though sometimes you never know how fast it will take off. On the off chance that happens and you don't get a chance to get caught up, I wanted to post this here.

{{{{{Faith}}}}} Hope you see this when you get back. Don't give up hope yet. Remember that stupid saying, it's always darkest before the dawn. Well, you're about 10-15 minutes before dawn. Your H has lied to you again, and it's another kick straight in the gut. Takes you right back to dday doesn't it. But you got it out of him and it sucks. But you know what? It does explain the last few weeks.

Like Jelly said, time to formulate a plan. Decide what you want and what you're willing to put up with (there probably will be some type of contact with OW & OC). This will make your recovery tough. (Hey, who said it would be easy?) Guess, you already knew that much. At least you won't be in limbo. And last but not least, ask your H to join you in recovery. If he won't join you then, you know what looms ahead. It takes two to recover a marriage, but if there's only you, then be the best you, you can for your kids.

{{{{{FAITHFUL}}}}} With new shoes.

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]</small>

RH, thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
{{{{{FAITHFUL}}}}} With new shoes.

Nothing to add, FF.

Just wanted to let you know that you and your family are in my thoughts.

-OAK

Ok FF, well my post back to you a few days ago needs t/b revised in light of your recent post. His actions are due to his A revival not because he is going through withdrawal and hurt from your confession.

This adds a different spin so how are you planning to handle this change? I will try to withhold my comment til we hear from you.

Here's an {{{{{MB Hug}}}}

take care,
L.

Thank you, Orchid. I thought you were so dead on but yet in the back of my mind for quite a while I had this feeling...

Right now I just don't know. I gave him two choices tell me what you think.

1. He can move out to have an R with OW/OC. This means I would require HIM to file for a D. In the meantime I would get an attorney and begin legal separation and protect our assests. Calif is community property state.

2. He cuts all ties to OW. Writes a NC letter for me to approve (I never pushed this before), gets an intermediary approved by me to deal with OC issues and finally makes his life an open book to me. Ie key to his trucks with permission to look anytime, access to cell phone, check in with me periodically and account for his time. The biggest one though is he will seek intense IC with our MC for his addiction to OW. My H has been addicted to something throughout our entire M and it is time to face it. Do I want to be his policeman? NOt really, I want a grownup M but right now he cannot be trusted.

What do you think? We have MC tonight. Tomorrow night I have a meeting scheduled with the leaders of our church, he can go or not. It is open for him to attend but mostly to get spiritual support for me and my newly baptized DD. I have kept his secret about OC for a long time and never should have done that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

{{{{FF}}}}

I just saw your posts. I am so sorry to hear about what is going on with you. However it really is good news that it is now out in the open. i have no advice to give you right now. i really don't know what the best course of action is. Maybe the MC can help you guys negociate.

I know JL has mentioned many times how presenting an ultimatum is not constructive. I don't know if listing out your 2 choices is really doing that or not. Has JL ever posted to you much, does he know your scenerio? Maybe you can try to call him out directly. Heck I can do that much for you!!! I'll start a new post for him and direct him over here.

How is your MC, is he/she good at handling these types of things? ever think about using MB counsoling?

i will pray for you FF.

I am relatively new to the site, but I have to say that when I was reading today all of the previous posts, I thought immediately he was having some kind of A. I have been in his position before where I have used my H's lies to excuse my own A. The return to an A makes sense, in a way, because of the addiction to the good first feelings it produces. It is like a drink to an alcoholic, its a crutch, an escape. BUT the really good thing that I see here is that he came out with the truth here and he wants to be honest. Since secrecy is what "feeds" an affair, things can start to heal now hopefully. It seems like you should go to a Plan A and KEEP WORKING. Gods timing is not ours! I am praying for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faithful follower:
<strong> Thank you, Orchid. I thought you were so dead on but yet in the back of my mind for quite a while I had this feeling...

Right now I just don't know. I gave him two choices tell me what you think.

1. He can move out to have an R with OW/OC. This means I would require HIM to file for a D. In the meantime I would get an attorney and begin legal separation and protect our assests. Calif is community property state.

2. He cuts all ties to OW. Writes a NC letter for me to approve (I never pushed this before), gets an intermediary approved by me to deal with OC issues and finally makes his life an open book to me. Ie key to his trucks with permission to look anytime, access to cell phone, check in with me periodically and account for his time. The biggest one though is he will seek intense IC with our MC for his addiction to OW. My H has been addicted to something throughout our entire M and it is time to face it. Do I want to be his policeman? NOt really, I want a grownup M but right now he cannot be trusted.

What do you think? We have MC tonight. Tomorrow night I have a meeting scheduled with the leaders of our church, he can go or not. It is open for him to attend but mostly to get spiritual support for me and my newly baptized DD. I have kept his secret about OC for a long time and never should have done that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FF,
In all honesty, I don't think he is able to digest and react properly. Maybe if you simplify this list to something like:

1. Move out to do as you please. WS needs to start D paperwork. Don't mention what you will do.

2. If you want back into our family, you have to prove your worth. Each family member is a valuable contributor. We can't have someone who does not have the family's interest at heart. Details to come later.

See he needs to ask you so you know where you stand. Spelling it out for the WS doesn't do much good. Save the spelling for the Xws.

You have already exposed your A. NO longer need to beat that dead horse. Time will come later when you can both discuss your errors and work on future improvements together. The option to learn and move forwad or have a D is still up in the air but not all within your control.


JMHO,
L.