Okay, first let me say that I love my W very much and I fully believe that she loves me. We have been in recovery around 9 months now and things are going better than could be expected. But here is my dilema.

OM started his relationship with my W by talking to her about a very close mutual friend that had died. He would come by her office, she had her own business, ask if she could talk he would set there and smoke cigerettes until finally she started smoking along with him, her first of many sins, anyway as a former smoker I understand
full well that it is hard to quit and it was difficult for her to kick the habit but about 4 or 5 months ago she did, or so she said. Well about two months ago while on vacation I catch her hunched down behind a building smoking away. She didn't know I had seen her and even though I had told her that if she ever started back up that I could live with it she chose to lie about it. I asked her several times if she had been smoking and she said NO each time. Eventually I told her that I had seen her and what it did to our R and the trust we were trying to build and she told me she just didn't want to disappoint me again and assured me it was a minor set back and had no intention of smoking again.

I should mention that because of how she started, smoking is a major trigger even without her lies. Well over the last few weeks I thought I noticed the smell of smoke on her hair again and I asked if it was from her. She denied each time. Today I was unexpectedly waiting for her when she walked out of her office building and there she was with a lighter and cig. She didn't know I had seen her so she proceeded to hide it and has no idea what I had seen.

So my question is, how big of deal do I make of this. Everything else in our M is going great and I mean everything but at the same time I don't want to be lied to and of course this raises the what else is she lying about questions.

What would you do.

Mr E.

Simply talk with your wife and tell her your concerns. Give her the option of smoking openly if you can accept that. Each time you see her sneaking a smoke just walk up and let her know that you see her. Non smokers most certainly tell when someone else has been smoking and she should know that. Offer to support her efforts to stop. As a smoker myself I can tell you it is a horrendous task that I have not been successful at. I don't think this is indicative of a pattern of deceit.... just an addiction. The first step in recovery from any addiction is admitting that it exists.

Mr. E, has your W read the MB concepts? Does she understand Radical Honesty? I would very gently remind her how much her honesty means to you and the recovery of your M. {{Mr. E}}, miss you in I'ville. I always think of you when I am out walking about with It's a great day to be alive running through my head! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yep, sounds like addiction to me.
I stopped almost 4 months ago but still have smoked several times when the stress and chaos of the A were at their worst. Even a couple of times during working hours when stress got bad.

I've always ended up telling the little women, well I have replied truthfully when asked.

I still have feelings of wanting to smoke almost every day but made myself remember how nasty it is and how bad I feel after a cig.

While the deciet is harmful to the M, I would still say addiction.

With that said, I would handle the sitch as I would any other ongoing deciet...maybe won't yell and scream all the time but I would not let the issue die either.

MR E.

It's not good that she is not being honest with you. However, it may be a good sign. She might not want see you hurt by this trigger and she might not want you to disapprove of her. Smoking is certainly not PC these days.

I stopped smoking 14 years ago. Even then, I was a "closet smoker" as I called myself because I was so ashamed of the habit.

It definitely is an addiction, supposedly as hard to break as a cocaine addiction.

I would suggest that you express your concerns about the smoking, tell her you know that she is doing it, ask her why she doesn't feel free to talk to you about it and then go ahead and accept her doing it. Just like any other addiction, she will have to decide to break it.

JMHO

Thanks for the feedback... FF I'll have to drop in I-ville as time allows haven't had any as of late.

Yes Mrs E. is familiar with the basic concepts, we fondly refer to it as the policy of brutal honesty. The first time I caught Mrs E. I told her that I could handle her smoking but not lying. She doesn't seem to get it and I'm not sure how else to get it across to her. On the one hand my internal dialog is telling me that everything seems to be going so well don't over react to this, after all it's just smoking but the other side says yeah but if she is willing to decieve you on this one does that set us up for problems if not now in the future. I'm really perplexed.

And it is A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!

Hey Mr. E! good to see you again... I just saw your post.

Well, I'd just let her know that her sneaking is hard on you because it reminds you of how the A started. You've got to be up front and honest with her about how this makes you feel.

I get the impression that you are worried that if you tell her how you "really" feel about her smoking (that it's a trigger from her A) that you might possibly upset your rebuilding process... If that is the case, then here's what our MC told me when I was dealing with a similar situation...

You owe it to your W to be honest with your feelings... If you're not honest with her and don't tell her how you REALLY feel... then you're not giving her all of the information that she needs to make a good decision. And once you tell her how you REALLY feel, then you are not responsible for HER feelings... she is.

Hope this helps! and it's a Great Day here in Afghanistan!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Semper Fi,
RIF

RIF, so glad you had time to respond. Here's what has be baffeled. If I tell her that once again I "caught" her and how it makes me feel, I did this the first time, I know she will give me the well things are really really stressfull at work right now and I didn't want to disappoint you I'm sorry routine. Trust me, I know my W and that is almost word for word what she will say. The thing is how do I convey to her that it is not alright to lie and hide some things from me? I've tried to get that across to her the best way I know already.

I'll tell you when I saw her my frist thought was that she has become incapable of being totally honest. You know it seems kind of like if you have a rule for your child and you only enforce it some of the time then that whole line becomes blurred. It seems to me that either you are forth right and honest with your S or you are not. I mean honestly and openess is a big thing to me and she knows this. It would seem that she learned the hard way that the truth always comes out in the end anyway so if she isn't going to be hoenst now, then when.

On the other hand I can't force her to be honest and everything else IS great so do I give her a pass? It seems to me that is just condoning her lying. I don't know I just really didn't need this.

But by gosh IT IS A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!

This is a tough one isn't it.

I think I would write her a letter telling her how much her dishonesty hurts you. Then she can respond in a letter too, if she likes. She won't feel so embarassed by being forced to face this right in front of your face. You leave the ball in her court so to speak. No pressure.

For me, the more I felt pressured to quit by someone else the more I smoked.

And in other areas it was only when I was absolutely accepted the way I was that I could grow.

Weaver said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For me, the more I felt pressured to quit by someone else the more I smoked.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't seem to be about the smoking, it is about the lying, hiding, and sneaking that Cowboy has a problem with.

Stand firm on your boundaries of total honesty. Call her out on the lies, and tell her firmly this is what disappoints you, this is what makes her not trustworthy, if she is willing to lie about this, what else is she willing to lie about???

What is she afraid you will do if you know she is smoking??? You have expressed, she can smoke, you don't like it, but you understand it is an addiction.

She is an adult, it is her choice to smoke, a really bad choice if you ask me, but still her choice. Why is she not able to hold herself accountable for her silly choice to smoke?????

If you have to sneak, and lie about it, you probably shouldn't be doing.

Do not allow her to conflict avoid!!!!!!!!!!


Cowboy, I just asked about you yesterday, miss your wit.

Jelly

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: kyellow4 ]</small>

KY,

I understand that it is about the lies. That is why I suggested he write her a letter regarding the dishonesty and how much it hurts him.

She is embarassed about the smoking, which is why she keeps trying to hide it from him.

He may have said it is okay, however she knows it triggers him and probably disgusts him too.

Cigarette addicts hold quite a bit of self shame and self loathing for their nasty habit.

On the other hand maybe it is about control. She has this habit which he cannot control. He can only try.

Had to get on this one..I smoke and in some ways hate it - And I HATE lying, but of course have done that too occasionally.

First of all, it is the lying and deceit, not really the action that seems to bother you, Mr. E.
And I "get" that, big time. After my H's supposed non-admitted A - in which he was caught lying bunches - I found that he lied to me again in the few months after about big issues to me. Once about smoking (not cigs) and once about the woman in his office that I suspected in his A, she called the house and he hid that from me!!

My H is big CA and I know this.

But, alas, I too have lied in the past (and probably will again, altho I try not). About what, you may ask. About smoking cigs..I quit 3 yrs ago, for about a year. When I was first cutting down, I would hide a few extra and not give the correct amount when I talked to H. Shameful, yes!! I would say "Oh, well, I had 4 cigs today," when really it was 5 or 6...

So as big as I am on Honesty and Openness, I see and feel the flaws in Radical Honesty. My H lied to stay out of trouble. I lied to avoid shame (mostly my own , not my H's), and then felt more ashamed!

You should talk to you wife about this, but please don't let these incidents effect your recovery too much. In the bigger scheme of things, if you really feel that she is being honest about everything else, it may be best to let this one go.

Just my $0.02,
jls

sorry - double post

Not lying about that- darn error and reload messages - not lying about that either.

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: jlseagull ]</small>

Wow, really good input thanks alot. I decided to write down my thoughts and focus on the lying vs. smoking aspect of things. I'll give it to her when she gets home in a few... keep your fingers crossed.

Jelly, see you leave for awhile and your kingdom falls apart.

Well that didn't work so well... she said that it was only a couple of cigs and if she knew I wouldn't over react she would have told me. Then she tried to turn it into me treating her like a child cause she's an adult and can smoke if she wants to... she then went on to say that she knew I would never forgive her for her A. HUH!?!?!

I tried once more to explain that this was not about smoking but about lying. Before we were done it turned into me trying to get her to explain how this whole deal was my fault??? and then degressed into so what you think I can handle you sleeping with another man in my bed but not you smoking?

No yelling or even raised voices just lots of LBing... she is such a CA. This way she doesn't have to talk about the real issue.

Oh well... it's still A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!

Hi Mr E....I understand this issue fully..it is not about the smoking it is about the cover-up...bad trigger. I had the same experience with FWH...looking at those sites on the internet. FWH also retook up smoking after ending A....is it written that an addict will take up another addiction when they have given up one?

Even though I understood that, I felt it was necessary for me to tell FWH...I had asked him about looking at those web sights before and he said he had given it up....just told me that in Dec. Then I found evidence of him on the web last month....so he lied. I told him that I did not feel safe when he withheld the truth...I said it is not the sights although I do have a bit of problem with that...but for me it was the lack of truth....I felt better telling him how I felt.

SS, so how has it gone with your H? Do you think you've gotten anywhere?

On my deal I decided to stick to my guns. I told my W that this was her issue and not mine and that I would not take responsibility for HER actions. It was her choice to lie and decieve not mine. I also explained in much greater deatail how and why smoking was such a trigger to me and I honestly believe she got that part. After pretty much 24 hours of silence she left me the following message on my office phone; I am so sorry, you are right this is my fault and I am sorry that I was not honest with you. I am also sorry as I really had no idea why you felt the way you did about smoking, I think I had explained but maybe it just finally sunk in this time, anyway she went to say that she would make it up to me and that honesty was the issue and she felt horrible for her actions.

I called her and told that while I was happy with her message but that we were at a beginning point not an ending point. Last night we had lots of good dialog and this a.m. we made up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> if you get my drift.

I think we are back on track.

Dang if it anin't A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!

Mr. E....I love happy endings.....it sounds as if you had a happy ending this morning...

{{{{{{{hrmmmmmmm....me, blushing}}}}}}}}}

You did great...it sounds as if you expressed yourself calmly and did not LB...you expressed how you felt and even more, the reason why you felt what you did. Your W said that she understood and even apologized. Wow, wow.

Isn't MB great....it teaches the impact we have on one another and how to relate to one another in better ways. Good job....keep up the good work....you did great and yes....it is a great day to be alive......here's to more happy endings with our spouses... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good job!

Well you know what they say even a blind squirrel finds a nut everyonce in awhile!!!