Binder,

Nothing to add my man, but I'm glad for you, in a way. No need to rush this decision, right?

Not like you imagined way back when, huh?

GC

Congrats, Binder...the fact that WS is thinking is testimony to your positive Plan A and B. Even here in So. Calif...the rain has to stop someday and the sunshine return...

Today is another day and the ball is in your court. It is good to have choices....go slow and watch actions. Good luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sorry about hookie season, man.

Yep, we knew this would come, didn't we? Cancellation of the season and perhaps the ending of a fantasy. Pay rolls and barrellrolls.

You have now surpassed my level of direct experience, so be careful with anything I say.

Maybe you should go fishing. This usually clears my mind, sorta like when I'm cutting the grass. I do my best thinking cutting the grass.

OK, here goes.

I'd be suspicious of her. Duh!!

Her initial reaction to seeing the light may be the typical rebound back to the spouse. Where else? She's impulsive, remember.

Another recommendation - besides fishing - is to stick to the terms of the PBL, and if conversations/meetings ensue - gauge her humility. Ample humility must be present, IMHO, to disprove suspicions of mere utility. Insufficient humility means insufficient credibility to me. You're perceptive enough to realize this.

Finally, continue placing your children above yourself. I know you have or else you wouldn't be here. The chance for them to have a successful family reunion is worth whatever gamble you take with the financial arrangements. This doesn't mean it's the sole determining factor. Just take it from me that the value of family is priceless. Your kids are young enough that this potential value for them should be seriously considered. But you know this.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> KMEJ, appreciate the sentiment, but it's not just about me. My tornadoes factor into this. I would not deny them an intact family to prevent my own pain. Heck, I'd die and kill for them in a heartbeat; I certainly will examine the opportunity if it is seriously tendered. I would prevent the pain they would have to endure in regards to observing their parents embark on a futile reconciliation however. That is where my concern now lies.

I'd like to say this would be a no brainer without kids, but I never thought I'd be here with an unfaithful spouse with kids. I cannot therefore assume I'd be divorcing within a reality I'll never have to consider.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Binder,

If I had known how my DD's life would go once I split from her dad, with the custody issues, the horror and heartbreak of this past year, I would have tried everything in my power to save our family.

I didn't have MB back then, didn't know affairs could be overcome and marriages could be become stronger than ever.

It's a choice I made to split because of his affair, it's a choice I made to give him 50/50 custody. And I regret these things more than I can ever say. Well I can't stand him but maybe that could have been changed through recovery and counseling.

Sometimes divorce cannot be avoided and it does make the most sense. It's such a hard road to walk.

I really feel for you on the children/family issue. I know it weighs heavily on your heart and mind.

Mornin' all,

GC....yup...caught me off guard...though I was aware this may be a possibility, I was getting ready to bail. I will still be preparing to bail...but I will also be lining up competent pro-marriage counselors.

SureSurvivor,

I'm not sure if "the plans" affected her in the intended fashion, but they sure helped me. Yes...I will be slow and cautious.

WAT,

The hockey season's demise has huge ramifications here where hockey is more of a religion than a sport. I predict a mini-baby boom in 9 mos. sorta like what happens after an extended blackout. I have way more fun watching my son play every weekend anyway. It’s so captivating I can see how easy it would be to become one of "those parents". I can only imagine how much restraint I will need to watch the games when they allow the kids to start body checking. That's still a few years away though.

Fishing would be good for me now. Metaphorically my life has become a fishing trip...I've cast it out and forgotten about my line busying myself with other things...I detect a slight nibble, but not enough to set the hook.

Though your experience did not take you in this direction, I have no doubt I will require your clarity of thought as a third party observer. I am well aware that objectivity is one of the first casualties when mired in the morass and aftermath of an A.

I also appreciate your testimonial as well regarding the integrity of family. I am willing to live as a pauper with an intact family if that's what it takes...I am, though, very reluctant to gamble it all so frivolously without some concrete evidence of her willing to "walk the talk". I have some requirements that would mean a huge sacrifice to her i.e. her job. I will feel far more confident if I was to observe those types of actions.

Weaver...thank you for your testimonial as well. I need to hear that to keep my motivation for this marriage up. Right now my WW thinks it's up to her whether or not we put this battered marriage back together. She has no idea how far I've come.


Hockey and fishing in the same post...I think I'll print and frame this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Binder don't post much anymore but just read your thread...always loved your sig line...as Canucks we know about lighthouses and outhouses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ..I'll be pullin for ya that the lighthouse wins hands down <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

New Outlook,

Thanks for the response...time will tell if the lighthouse "wins"....though I'm not sure how to define "winning" anymore.

OK folks.....I just connected with my buddy....he's received various emails from WW as of late. He says they’re fairly emotional, but their contents essentially say this:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me asking her to not walk the kids to my door is absurd.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She feels the non communication is harmful to the children and creates further problems with co-parenting. eg. our son tells me he does not give him his allowance on the Fridays she has him, when she does...he is trying to "con" me and our system of communication facilitates that.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She would like to enter counseling to "learn how to communicate about the children".</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She would like to have the opportunity to "sit down and talk to me" as she feels it's "important she gets a chance to say some things"</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
So....my reply is what is in question.....I may need some guidance in the phrasing. I'll put down a draft here and see what you all think...suggestions are welcome and encouraged:


WW:

I agree, the present situation is extremely harmful to the children as they learn from example.

Please make full use of the system for communication as it is presently set up. I am now aware of the concern regarding the allowance for our son.

A meeting will not take place between us until you satisfy the condition as stated in my letter to you in July/04 i.e. All contact with OM must cease.

Binder.


Just so you know...the day after WW visited MIL in a melancholy mood suggesting marital counseling, she visited again. This time she was bouncing off the walls all hyped about a big party she was going to with her girlfriends on Sat. MIL is discouraged again and said to me that she does not know her daughter anymore and finds it difficult to be around her.

I have already taken the “Parenting after separation” course, and my agency will provide further family counseling during/post divorce. I thought about putting that into my message to her, but not sure if I want to present that “attitude”

I’m also going to see a marital counselor next week to see if she may be appropriate if things turn around. I don’t want to be left scrambling at the last minute if my WW “sees the light”

My take? Life for her is coming apart at the seams...I truly believe her mental state is fragile...but she has a ways to fall yet. A "wait and see" attitude is probably my best bet. My timetable remains.

My recommended change:

"A meeting will not take place between us until you satisfy the condition as stated in my letter to you in July/04 i.e. All contact with OM must cease and we both commit to rebuilding our family for the good of all involved. I sincerely look forward to restoring our family so the harm to our children and ourselves can be brought to an end."

WAT

Thank-you WAT, I was hoping you would add your too sense.....I'll add that.

I sent my WW the message regarding NC before even entering into a discussion. The message is exactly what I wrote above including WAT's addendum.

Nothing.

I received a message today regarding our son, but otherwise nothing, nada, zip.

The thing is; I feel ambivalent regarding that too. I no longer hang on her responses or even if there is one.

I did, however, see a marriage counselor today to see if she would be appropriate for us should there be some sort of reconciliation. I don't want to be left scrambling for a counselor at the last minute or end up with one that is unsuitable should my WW recommit.

The timetable remains. I am ready to end this but will wait for my self imposed date.

Wow!!!!
Even if I did the best plan B ever...my STBX would never come back! Good luck to you. At least you may get a second chance if that's what you want.

Wow!!!!
Even if I did the best plan B ever...my STBX would never come back! Good luck to you. At least you may get a second chance if that's what you want.

Hi Binder,

Thanks for your update.I was wondering if anything had happened lately.

I can't say that I am surprised you didn't get an answer to the NC rule yet but,who knows,maybe she is thinking about it and wondering how to best word the letter? Wishful thinking? Hmmm.

Well,keep us posted.I am still hoping for the best outcome.

O

Tree,

I'm not sure she will ever come back either, but this plan sure has done ME a world of good.

O,

I'm not sure what the best outcome is anymore. I keep reminding myself that for our children it's a no brainer, but for me....I just don't know.

Well, how you are feeling is certainly understandable. And a lot more common than you might think.

Just remember that right now you are thinking with a set of perceptions that reflect your current situation right now.

How might you feel about this subject in, say, 10 years... after a successful recovery? How might you feel about it after you have fallen back in love with her? And she with you? How much stronger might your love be after getting through such an ordeal together?

Look at this situation with far reaching eyes before you commit...

dewt

The best outcome is that in which you and your children feel safe,loved,secure and are no longer in pain.With or without your WW.

The WW part of the equation is unknown thus far.

Stay strong,hold to those values and beliefs Binder.Your WW cannot take that away from you and it's a guiding force in your life now.

Dewt,

Thank you for that reminder, which is why I will stick to the date I set when I actively "desired" her return. I do believe love is a choice and that we are capable of regaining our marriage. I just have trouble feeling it right now.

I read that one of the best indicators of future happiness with a partner is past happiness. That you should judge your potential success by viewing the relationship as it was before the downturn that culminated in an A. We were happy once.

For the first time since this started, however, I am lonely for adult female company. A majority of my friends and associates encourage it now. I have had overtures made by some attractive women already. I hate the distraction, and I hate that on some levels I feel the desire to pursue it. I recognize my human frailties for what they are though I can’t change them. I only own my decisions.

I need to refocus...on my family, God and the person I want to be. I need to be respectable to earn respect...even my own.

Binder said:
I have had overtures made by some attractive women already. I hate the distraction, and I hate that on some levels I feel the desire to pursue it. I recognize my human frailties for what they are though I can’t change them. I only own my decisions.


Binder,
You already know this, but I'll say it anyway.

Everyone has 2nd thoughts, temptations, and weaknesses. What counts is what we do with those thoughts, not that we have them.

I sometimes hold you up as one that continues to do it right. I know it's hard - and that is an udnerstatement which you well know.

Realize that these feelings will continue to come, and also that you can continue to do the right thing. I continue to pray for you. Many of us think about you, and care about what happens to you, and to your family. I keep hoping your W will get it before it is too late, but we can't control that. I am sorry she doesn't have self control, but I am glad you do.

I know that sin can be fun, but that happiness depends upon doing what is right, and there is a difference between fun, and happiness. I know which one you seek, and I am glad for you in that respect. All of us will find that out in one way, or the other, but your way is better than her way.

If she doesn't "get it" soon, I fear for her future. I don't fear for yours at all, and I think you understand.

One of these summers I ought to come up to see you. I need to be sure it's a weekend you are going to the cabin though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


SS

SS

Thank you for the validation. My commitment and respect for the marriage institution is the ONLY thing holding this together. I would feel comfortable calling my lawyer anytime now and putting this marriage to rest. I have to believe in the testimonials that my feelings can and will change in a properly approached reconciliation. I have no personal experience to draw upon in this regard therefore I am open to the potential of what may be rather than the preservation of what is.

And yes...sin can be fun...one is rarely faced with the simple decision of partaking in a horrific massacre of the innocent or going to church. Sin gently whispers in your ear suggesting you deserve a small reward for all you've done right. Sin also buys you a premium beer and invites you to dance...

I am now to the point where I see a bright future for myself as well. One where, if asked, I can relate to my children how I fought for this family for everyone’s benefit. She can only continue to try and bury her legacy under layers of lies and sleazy rationalizations. Enough about her.

You would be welcome around the fire pit at the cabin. Bring your fly rod and waders if you got...if not, a sturdy pair of hiking boots. There is an easy trail up the mountain behind my place that results in a panoramic view of the ranges to the west and the foothills to the east. It's breathtaking.

Good man, Binder! You're in western Canada, right? If I'm ever up there I'd love to meet up with you too. Two hundred-year-old men in younger bodies, drinking the finest cheapest beer they got.

GC