My husband is in a master's program that meets once a week at night. There were several evenings last semester where he stayed late after class was over. This morning I found the following e-mails that my husband sent to a classmate:

after class was just like i imagined!
no worries about complications.
your thoughts?
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i don't think you understand just how much i'm aching for you ... when can i see you?
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You and I must set aside some "one on one" time too. Obviously, I talking
about some "you on me" time, if you get what I'm sayin'.
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Hey, baby -
Enjoy ... have fun searching for the not so subliminal message! I'll call you tonight ... unless you want to hear my voice again beforehand!
(he sent a copy of his paper and put in a picture of himself fishing with the following comments around the picture:)

MI AMORE … I JUST CAN’T STOP THINKING ABOUT xxx!!!
HARD AS I TRY, I JUST CAN’T REEL HER IN!!!
BUT GOOD THINGS TO THOSE WHO WAIT!!! AND I GOT NOTHIN’ BUT TIME!!!
--------------------------------------------------

These e-mails span a period of time from Sept 2004 to January 2005. I don't know if there were more, but these were the ones I was able to find in his sent folder.

I have met the woman in question, as my husband introduced us at a Christmas party. So this morning I went to the OW's office and asked her nicely to tell me what was going on and to please be truthful. She was confused and didn't understand and then when I showed her the e-mails she said oh, he was just joking and flirting around. More conversation and she did tell me that David talked to her about us and she advised him what he needed to help out more at home (as I had been wanting him to do). But other than flirting there was NOTHING going on. She even said that she was not attracted to him. I wanted to believe her.

So then I go to my husband's office who has no idea that I went to the OW's office and gave him a folder of the e-mails with an attached note that the marriage was over. He came home shortly after and he said the were just jokes, they were just flirting around. Told the same story that OW did. Did they corroborate their stories in the 30 minutes it took me to get home from her office? He was on the phone for about 15 minutes after I left her office. There was alot of discussion, about OW, us, our marriage, why he sent the e-mails and he stood firm that he was just joking/flirting and admits that it was wrong and what it looks like. The conversation was calm, not angry and we both agreed to work on the marriage.

But how does someone say "I'm aching for you, when can I see you" to another woman and I'm supposed to believe that he was only flirting.

Things in our marriage had been up and down during the period that the e-mails were sent and I can recognize my part in it and can work on correcting my behaviors. But how am I supposed to believe him? Would anyone else believe their spouse if they found this kind of evidence? I am not ready to throw the towel in on the marriage even if I found out that something did happen. I want to correct what went wrong so it won't happen again. But I don't feel like I can move forward if I don't know the truth.

What would you do, keep pressing or believe him?

Would I believe him? No, I'm sorry I would not. There is nothing remotely funny about those "jokes", and A or not...the inappropriateness of those emails is crystal clear. Why should you be okay with him "flirting" with other women anyway??

What does your gut tell you?

I know how bad you want to believe your H, but I think it would be hard to do after reading the emails you found and the fact that OW and your H had matching stories.

I heard a message from the OW on my H's voice mail that said:

"I keep thinking about last week and all of the things you did that made me feel so damn good."

First my H said he didn't know who would have left him that kind of voice mail. Didn't know who she was.

Then, after admitting that he knew who it was, said that he didn't know what OW meant by this message. He WAS NOT screwing around on me.

Well, my gut didn't agree.

Guess what? You got it. He was screwing an OW.

Trust your gut!

Take care.

sss

I am not okay at all with him flirting and I made that very clear to him.

I just can't get out of my head "I ache for you, when can I see you". I've innocently flirted with or been flirted with over the years and no one has come remotely close to saying anything like that, even in fun.

I thought about sitting on this evidence for awhile and waiting to see I could gather anymore over time, but we are getting ready to make a decision in the next few days about moving to a new area, away from family. So I couldn't wait I needed to confront now.

Is there a way I can make him feel safe, so that he would tell me the truth if there was anything physical?

stillsosad,

so how did you get him to confess?

Did you check his cell phone bill to see just how much flirting they were doing by phone during those months. Can you get his bill?

he did not have a cell phone bill during this time. he just got one for work at the end of january and there is 1 short call to her a couple of weeks ago.

I guess he didn't make any odd charges on a credit card either.

Anyway, I wouldn't believe either your H or OW.

Read and have him read:

Four Rules of Protection

Focus on the Rule of Radical Honesty.

See if you can get on the same page with him on this.

Believe him?

Not in a ba-jillion years.

Do you?

Of course no one here would believe that story. Yep, I bet they collaborated after your confrontation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GOODWIFEY:
<strong>gave him a folder of the e-mails with an attached note that the marriage was over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you've made up your mind?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What would you do, keep pressing or believe him? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Depends on what you want to accomplish. Do not believe him. If you're used to getting your way by pressing, by all means continue. You'll for sure find out the truth in the end.

But if you really don't want a divorce, I suggest you merely assume he's lying, like we do, assume it was already physical - it doesn't make any difference, an affair is an affair is an affair - and get to work on Plan A.

If this OW is married, get to work on informing her husband.

I sense you are a demanding person. Am I right? If so, do not expect to accomplish anything here in this fashion by pressing and expect to succeed - unless you demand a divorce, which you certainly can demand and succeed easily.

GW,

I read a tm from the OW to my WH -"Oh my heart aches" -- It took me 7 month of both the OW and my WH telling me I misunderstood the text messages and voice mails of this type of nature. When I wised up a little -- the OW tried to tell me that her voice mail at 1 am saying "if you came home with me tonight you would have run into my brother" --When I confronter her she said that she wanted my wh to come to her apt and move some furniture (at 1 am!!!).

Let me save you some of the rollar coaster ride I went thru and assume this is a major A and start to Plan A --don't waffle like I did.

I did not get my wh to admit the A until December and I bluffed telling him I had a PI who recorded his cell phone conversations (yea he believed me).

I hope this helps --- do not let them fool you.

tdr

My FWW and OM had a plan all set aside if I was to run into them or find some evidence.

Demanding..no, far from it. I don't know how you could draw that conclusion from a few postings.

I had written marriage was over in a gut reaction to what I had found. Who wouldn't? My heart was broken, my stomach is in knots. My husband is not who I thought he was.

I just want to know the truth as anyone in my position would, so that's why I say ask should I keep pressing. We can rebuild this marriage but it has to be based on honesty, which I thought we had. I want to know why he felt like he needed her. I can't rebuild this marriage if I don't feel like I can trust him or if he is telling me the truth.

Hi GW,
Not in a million years.

How asking him to take a lie detector test? They are listed in the yellow pages... usually get several questons for a hundred or so $. Ask him and watch him sweat!

Dont ignore this. He's fishing behind your back. Even if this one didnt 'hook up', eventually, one will.

If I caught my H in this type of situation, he'd be out on his ear, with NO remorse on my part. Totally unacceptable. IMHO.

I'm very sorry. He's not acting like a Husband. He's acting like swinging single - Dru

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]</small>

Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. I don't believe those e-mails are just flirting. They are way too concrete about "after class was more than I imagined" and the "you on me" comment. WTH is that anyway?! Who could get those kind of e-mails and consider them innocent flirting except the very stupid?

You said in your other thread in Just Found Out: "But we did have a big fight over the weekend about my funk (I was stressing over work) and he said he was tired of it and ready to call it quits that he didn't want to be with me anymore. This is the first time in 16 years he has ever said anything like that to me so I started thinking/worrying again." Classic WS.

Yes, be worried IMO, but do something about it. I agree with Worth A Try....Plan A is calling you.

I have read some of your earlier posts - is he still taking viagra? I would say he was having a PA with this woman. Watch his moves. Sorry for all what you are going thru. My WH was having an Ea- or so he says. I believe it was a PA and he will not admit to it.

I asked him if he would take a lie dectector test and he immediately said yes, but then got annoyed when he thought I was serious. He couldn't believe I would take it that far, but he said he would do it. But I think I will follow-up with it and schedule an appointment and see if he continues to get annoyed/mad

I told him tonight that I was not leaving, he was not leaving that we could work on this but I needed to know the truth. He admitted that he was attracted to her but it never went any further than that. But innocent flirting would be, you are so cute, that outfit looks good on you, you are sexy, you have a great smile...not "I ache for you, when can I see you".
Nothing innocent about that. But he is holding to his story. So if I don't do anything about the lie dectector test, I have to believe him and move forward. Very hard to do.

But I have to let this go for a couple of days, as he has 2 very big interviews coming up on Mon/Tues that he needs to prepare written responses. They will be very time consuming and he needs to be focused on them. The outcome of the interviews had a big impact on our family as it requires a move, a move away from our family.
If I am to make that move, I need to believe that this marriage is salvagable. But I need to know the truth as well, but it may come at a steep price.

No he is not taking the Viagra. He tried it a couple of times but then the 3 pills remain in the bottle.

No funny charges on the credit card bills.
But he does carry around cash usually, so I would never know.

Hi GW -

My H tried to tell me that the OW's messages (FIVE OF THEM - all saved in his voice mail) were just wishing thinking on her part...you know her fantasies.

I listened very carfully to the five voice mail messages (transferred them to my voice mail) and common sense told me that her messages weren't just wishful thinking. The messages would have been worded very differently like..."Thinking about you and how you could make me feel so damn good". Or I can't wait for you to... You know, something like that. Plus the messages referred to emails that she received from my H with his standard OW lines.

I simply told my H that nobody would word those messages in that way unless they had just had sex with someone. That I couldn't believe he would think that I was that stupid to fall for 'wishful thinking' voice mails. Each voice mail carried a date and time stamp on it and each one referred mostly to the prior week...guess what...he had just been out of town on a business trip. I told him the voice mails told the entire story.

He finally admitted that he had sex with her but refused to admit to much else. It took me the next 15 months to finally get the entire A story out of him. Please don't make that same mistake. It was pure hell getting the story in little bits here and there. It was like every day was a d-day.

I think your common sense is telling you there's more going on. As you said, simple flirting does not include some of the things that your H said to the OW.

I'm not sure I would worry about the job interviews. I can imagine how you feel. It's the most awful feeling in the world. Why let your H off the hook...even for a few days so he can focus. Can you focus right now...on anything other than those emails?

If the OW has an H, I would share those emails with him asap!

Take care. I wish you the best.

sss

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have to believe him and move forward </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That won't work. You don't HAVE to anything.

THIS..is all about choices.

Proving is sometimes difficult...and I can promise you...most times..when confronted with UNDENIABLE evidence...the WS will STILL make every attempt to lie..hide..deceive...it's just the way it goes.

Upon finding... I love you TM from mi bella... my H's immediate reaction was...and I quote..I DIDN'T do anything wrong...

That would prove VERY untrue.

You H had an A...period. Maybe it didn't cross into a PA...but from the emails...yeah...it did...at one time...and it sounds like they called it quits..things got a bit complicated..and it sounds like OW... didn't want to get into a committment thing...she bailed out. At least that's MY take.

It's difficult..without PROOF..but you can assume without really concrete evidence...he won't admit it.

This is a tough call.

Calling Cards... the number one way to keep in contact..without bills. Purchasable at every convenient store...have you seen any around..in the garbage ? That was MY first clue.