I had coffee with a friend today. H had visited them last week and implied that he was so confused about his life. He feels guilty about everything. He told them that he hasn't gone past the EA with the OW and doesn't know what he wants to do with that. That the R with the OW came about via phone calls and sharing etc.

This has given he hope that there may still be a chance for our M. The OW lives very far away and he is not seeing her again until the end of March. Do you think that A great Plan A between now and when he leaves could have an impact. Enough that he might not consumate the R with the OW when he is away?

Hmm,

He's in some amount of turmoil..that's good. Hasn't entirely seared his conscience yet.

Soooo..here's what I think. If he enacts NC and does not go..or takes you with him..that's be a sign he is sincere.

If not..they will probably consumate the relationship while he is there. Sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I know that isn't what you wanted to hear.

Soo..what have you done to help the A die before it reaches that point?

Noodle

We are currently separated, he wanted out so bad that I gave in and I took the children to our new home. He is on his own now. He tells me that the M is over and he does not want to do any work on it. He tells me he is content with his decision to move forward on his own.

All our family and friends (except his parents) knows about the OW and his feelings. Actually he is telling some people about her. This worries me as he really thinks she is his future somehow! Even though it is not logical for him to make a R with the OW work due to distance and her children etc.

I have been waffling over deciding to forget him and move on, then the next day I think that he might want back. I wish I could make up my own mind. I just don't want to feel the ongoing pain again and again!

He would never take me to CA on that trip as it is the last week of a series of coaching seminars at a remote site. His company is paying the mega $s that the overall course has cost. In the thousands, so I know that he would never decide not to go!!!

I think my only choice is to be a better person and hopefully he will see that he could have a life with me again!

Is he classic WH in mid life crisis?

Sadly I have to agree with noodle (not that I have to agree because I hate to agree with her..I love noodle) ..just having to tell you something that hurts SO bad.

With 1 year DDAY #1 tomorrow..I don't know if this a really healthy thing for me to rehash..but it's for the greater good.

Shelly... my H was on that turmoil thing to..and like your OW..ours was very far away as well.

The "impending" trip was planned prior to DDAY...but not slated until after (does that make sense ?) later I would learn this was his way of fence sitting....(since the ticket was already purchased..and reservations...blah blah puke)...but on her trip here...ONE and only mind you..they did consumate their relationship...the guilt was overwhelming for my H...and he nearly went off the deepend.

Proceeded to end the A that same afternoon, shortly after sleeping with her...told her he was going back to his W..and there was no future for them. Put her on a plane back to neverneverland..where she lives happy ever after (I hope). He's had NC since then. I know, very crappy for my H to do, he was a WS...what in hell did she expect ? Heartfelt honesty?

Within 30 minutes from that, he was on my dining room floor..hands and knees..sobbing...begging for forgiveness. (even after a year...you have NO idea..how much this stings just thinking about it <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

If it's in you...try to do a stellar PLAN A... give yourself a deadline before her trip..and see if this jars him any.

I wish MORE WS would STOP..before crossing THAT line..but sadly..that ship has already sailed. Especially once it hits the light of day..it's like...well...I'm already nailed for this one..I might just as well ..because I can deny until the end of time..and my W will never believe me anyway.

I am POSITIVE...this was my H thinking process.

Ugh...WS... mine..made me so ill.

Hugs to you...and don't press the friends for INFO...let it come freely..and use it to your advantage right now.

I have not pressed for info, even though I wanted to know. My friend brought it up and I listened. She was just so amazed at his state, his mid life classic crisis and wondered how when we seemed to have been so good together since the last A three years before that things could have fallen apart again?!

My biggest problem, as stated before, is my big mouth. I keep making LB to H, commenting on his weaknesses and issues. I keep looking for him to tell me he needs me in his life. He does call me quite often just to talk about things other than the R, he stated the other night that he had no one else to talk to, (the issue was personal). I guess he does not want OW to know about those particular problems) I am and always have been his rock for so many things over the last 20 years.

He stopped going to IC over the last few weeks, He said he was feeling better so thought he didn't need it. He did mention maybe he should go back. I encouraged it.

So many feelings! I want to be his rock, his best friend and lover! How do I make him see that it is possible to not go back but to go forward, get help and rebuild on a new foundation?

Shelly

If anyone has an answer to this....

I am on Plan P (peace and love in my heart) with H. By that I mean that I have decided that I will do my utmost to respond to My H in ways that are peaceful and living no matter what.

I started yesterday and today he calls me and says he is uncomfortable and wonders why I am shifting. He says he doesn't want me to think that if he is loving and kind back that he is wanting or thinking that there is hope for us and our M. He says THERE IS NOT HOPE and he does not want to get into it with me anymore because when he does it leaves him depressed for a few days but he says that is getting less for him now.He does not want me to have ANY expectations around a R with him!

I listened and told him that I had no expectations of him and that I want to feel better, which I definately do! '(To myself - If it makes him look differently at me down the road thats great, but if not I will at least be able to feel the way I need to, peaceful!)

Has anyone out there had the same experience? If so how did it work out? Did the R change and continue or did it continue to D?

Shelly

I meant "peaceful and loving"not living!

Shelly,

As long as you are enabling his needs, he will continue to use you. He is a WS and not ready to change so you must decide whether you want t/b used or not.

As for you waiting for him to meet your needs in any way shape or form, well that's not going to happen for a while. So think about a plan B instead of plan P.

Your plan A is wearing you out and he isn't about to change.

He needs to see that you won't meet his needs, he may not want to OW to meet his needs and so where will he be then? In some cases the WS must be left destitute either physically, financially, emotionally, spiritually or mentally before he comes to his senses. We call it hitting rock bottom. He isn't there yet. You keep being the cushion.

Who or what is your cushion?

L.

Shelly,

Sorry that any of us are here. Oh how green the grass looks on the other (OP) side of the fence! I read thru all of your posts and although I am pretty much a newbie here, I have been in Recovery for more than a year.

One of the first questions I asked my FWH on dday, was why didn’t you just leave me? He looked at me with the most baffled look and said because I love you, I didn’t want to leave you. At that point he had just ended an 8 month long distance PA which had evolved from a lengthy EA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Even though he completely understood that what he was doing was morally wrong, he had convinced himself that he could do it without it affecting any other part of his life.

I once asked him how he felt each time he returned home after being with OW. You know, how he could actually sit at the dinner table with me, hold my hand, and discuss our future plans when everything we had was based on lies during the A. All he could say was that it made him feel very bad. Kind of an inadequate response if you ask me!

He was in FOG for about 3 ½ months where I think he actually figured the excitement of being with OW was worth the guilt. By month 4, his guilt combined with OW increasing neediness and demands began to clear the FOG. After that it was a 4 month struggle to get away clean without losing me. He finally figured out that I would have to know the truth because OW would not let him out of her life without that happening.

I won’t go into any more of my story because it is detailed in other posts, but I read your posts and wonder if your H is in some form of pre PA FOG where he just can’t start it while still with you. Sometimes it is easier to carry on the A if you don’t have to face your BS. Sometimes I honestly think that my FWH might just have left me during his A, but he was pretty sure that once he was gone, I would never let him return. At this point, I don’t even know the answer to that myself.

So I don’t really have any advice for you other than either he will figure it all out and come home, or not. Either way, you have some great folks here who care about you and can understand what you are going through. I have found that very comforting in my darkest times. Good Luck.

Thanks Diane for your input, I sometimes think I really amde a mistake by moving out with the children. Even though it is a more serene a calm home for them being away from the drama of our fighting I sometimes wonder if I had stuck around whether I would have a better chance of having an impact on H.

How do I know if it is H that I really miss or if I just am not used to being alone. Is it my H himself I miss or is it just being with him as a body that I miss? One moment I think one thing and the next I think I am weak and really should be ok on my own and it will just take time. Then I think about how wonderful our early days were and how much I want them back, I really love my old H. Is here still there??

I am going to continue on Plan A for my own sake. I will know in a few weeks I guess where I stand and if it is not good I will do Plan B at that time.


Shelly

Shelly,

I try to stay away from the site on weekends so just read your latest post. I know exactly what you mean when you say you miss your old H.

My FWH trusted someone he thought was a friend (OW) to understand him, to fullfill a need he had, the one thing missing between us. She had other plans for the two of them. When he saw the reality of her, he was horrified.

Anyway, I have often during this rollercoaster called recovery, thought of how much I missed the complete trust I had, the sureness that he would never betray me. Neither of us are the same people we were before the A.

But.....in many ways, we are better. I am a better wife, I consider his feelings, his needs before my own. He finally understands that he does have the power to hurt me deeply. He also understands that a repeat of his actions in the future will mean the end of us forever.

A repeat betrayal will mean that he is not the man I love, so I will morne the loss of him without actually knowing for sure when he was gone. I do not think either of us ever wants to go through this again.

I hope and pray that your H sees the light before any more damage is done.

You are in my thoughts.

Interesting happenings the last few days!

The last few days I have been feeling better about life in general. Still love my H but decided that I was killing myself inside allowing myself to feel sad and desparate most of the time.

I am allowing myself to enjoy the present and yesterday my new neighbour called me to see if I wanted to have lunch with her. We went shopping and she helped me pick out some clothes that are more "hip"and "hot" so that I wouldn't feel so out of it and frumpy. Well I tried different styles and low and behold I looked great!! Had lunch and overall had a great day!! '

Last night H called to say "hi" and talk about his work etc. I listened and politely said goodnite. No R talk, to mention of him at all. In fact he asked about my day and I told him how great it was!! Today I ahd coffee with another girlfriend, wearing my new duds of course, she looked at me and said "you look great" fabulous! I did feel it too!!

I have not called my H unless it was about $ issues or kids. Tonight he called me and asked if he could come and talk to me, that he wanted to tell me something!

My first instinct was fear, that he was going to tell me more garbage about OW or ?? I said I would be here, after a few minutes I thought to myself that I was not interested in hearing anything like that and I didn't want to feel like sh*t again! Ignorance is bliss!! I called his cell and asked him if it was something that he knew would upset me? He said "NO". I just mentioned that if it was I was not interested.

Anyways he showed up shortly after, came in the hosue and asked Dd11 to give us alone time to talk. He asked why I was all dressed up! I just said that was how I have been all day. (I must look good!!!)

I sat on the couch and waited for him to speak. He started by telling me that he had been thinking and that last night it really hit him! He wanted to say that he wanted me to know that none of what happened in our M was my fault, I was the same woman that he married, that he was the one who baited all the time, was angry and manipulated me constantly.He acknowledged that I was always there for him and supported him in everything he wanted to do! He said he knew I would never forgive him! I responded that I had already forgiven him. I had a little tear in my eye but other than that I just listened. No R talk at all from me.

He sat for a few minutes and ended by saying he just wanted me to know. He was in the kitchen and asked my if I had been asked out on a date yet? I answered "not yet'I do not want to lie about that right now and really am not interested although he does not know that.

He had a quick bite to eat, sat again basically in silence, then signed the kids up for camp on the internet using his credit card. Then headed home.

No hug or nothing! What do you seasoned MB's think of this event? Is this part of the typical WH in MLC talk? Is this some fog lifting slightly? SHould I have more hope for the future?

Shelly

bump

Anyone?

Shelly,

I'm about to unload some bad news.

Everything that you described re that conversation tells me one thing, and one thing only.


He wants to do this. He wants to have this A. He's throwing disclaimers and generalities around like confetti..but refusing to address the core issues. He wants to do it, and he wants that to be fine with you so that he won't feel even a little bad.

Sounds like Plan B should be around the corner.

What steps have you taken?

Noodle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by shellyC:
<strong> Anyone? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, shelly.

I think you need to go back and read Orchid's previous post to you.

If you want a chance at saving your marriage, you have to stop enabling the affair. That means you have to stop avoiding conflict. That means that you will have to choose not to have such a peaceful atmosphere.

Like Orchid asked you, where are your cushions? Why are you your husband's cushion? What has being a cushion, brought you?

All the best,
Gimble

Hi Gimble, Orchid et al...

You are right! I need to plan B.

WH continues to waltz in like all is sweet and happy after his speech about how bad he feels blah blah.

Yesterday I told him that I though about what hes said was actually pretty selfish on his part. That it was for his benefit, not mine! He said it was for me, so that I would know that I was the "good person". I replied "What did it do for me? I already knew that!"

Anyways, my SIL was here yesterday and told me that WH had talked about the OW to him. That really angered me, how casual he is about the whole issue!!!

So I am onto writing Plan B letter and giving it to him soon.

Any words of wisdom about content??


Thanks

ShellyC